|
Post by Huddysleftfoot on Aug 9, 2022 10:25:22 GMT
Well, well. Seems like the piss your pants topic for the day is Freeports. Fill your pants boys. Been on about it for some time. I'd suggest you do some research, along with "Charter Cities"
|
|
|
Post by Huddysleftfoot on Aug 9, 2022 10:37:42 GMT
I wonder.....
|
|
|
Post by oggyoggy on Aug 9, 2022 11:05:24 GMT
Democracy suspended and government run by big companies. Under this government that isn’t limited to freeports. That’s their policy for the country. The latest was Raab’s attempts to make the government unaccountable for judicial reviews. This government have redistributed wealth from the poor and middle to the rich like levels we have never seem before. Billionaires seem to be going from strength to strength while the rest of us choose between heat and food. Yet the leadership hopefuls are pushing for a smaller state and more austerity, just to kick the have-nots when they are down. The only hope is that the recession and cost of living is rightly blamed on the tories, and that labour back a democratic voting system if they get into power. Market economics for essentials like water and energy has failed. We need state run essentials like green/nuclear energy and water. " The only hope is that the recession and cost of living is rightly blamed on the tories, and that labour back a democratic voting system if they get into power." And that the Lib Dems don't side with the Tories again, if there's a hung parliament, eh? Absolutely. Luckily the tories are now ukip and so there is no chance of the lib dems going into coalition with them again. Labour need to be the biggest party after the next election.
|
|
|
Post by chiprockets on Aug 9, 2022 11:10:55 GMT
"a woman so dense that light bends around her" ???
|
|
|
Post by foghornsgleghorn on Aug 9, 2022 11:31:18 GMT
It's quite obvious that the government needs to make bigger payments for energy bills-£400 is woefully inadequate for many. All this stuff about tax cuts is not only woefully inadequate but also poorly directed.
It's almost getting to the point of needing a cross-party approach to address the cost of living crisis but the Tories cannot even agree amongst themselves and are just positioning themselves for a place in the next cabinet etc.
|
|
|
Post by yeokel on Aug 9, 2022 11:35:04 GMT
" The only hope is that the recession and cost of living is rightly blamed on the tories, and that labour back a democratic voting system if they get into power." And that the Lib Dems don't side with the Tories again, if there's a hung parliament, eh? Absolutely. Luckily the tories are now ukip and so there is no chance of the lib dems going into coalition with them again. Labour need to be the biggest party after the next election. Unfortunately there seems little hope of that with Kier ‘Zero Charisma’ Starmer at the helm
|
|
|
Post by oggyoggy on Aug 9, 2022 11:37:19 GMT
It's quite obvious that the government needs to make bigger payments for energy bills-£400 is woefully inadequate for many. All this stuff about tax cuts is not only woefully inadequate but also poorly directed. It's almost getting to the point of needing a cross-party approach to address the cost of living crisis but the Tories cannot even agree amongst themselves and are just positioning themselves for a place in the next cabinet etc. They need to step in and stop the price cap going up so high. Quells inflation and helps with cost of living. Everything else is just window dressing
|
|
|
Post by oggyoggy on Aug 9, 2022 11:39:23 GMT
Absolutely. Luckily the tories are now ukip and so there is no chance of the lib dems going into coalition with them again. Labour need to be the biggest party after the next election. Unfortunately there seems little hope of that with Kier ‘Zero Charisma’ Starmer at the helm Charisma is not a particularly necessary skill for a PM. They just need to be able to manage the country well and avoid crises and avoid the limelight. I think Starmer can do that better than any of the tories. Interesting that the lib dems have now adopted my policy of not allowing the energy price cap to be increased.
|
|
|
Post by yeokel on Aug 9, 2022 11:42:12 GMT
Unfortunately there seems little hope of that with Kier ‘Zero Charisma’ Starmer at the helm Charisma is not a particularly necessary skill for a PM. They just need to be able to manage the country well and avoid crises and avoid the limelight. I think Starmer can do that better than any of the tories. Interesting that the lib dems have now adopted my policy of not allowing the energy price cap to be increased. Charisma, i.e. getting people to notice you, getting people to listen to you and getting people to be enthused by you is essential to becoming the PM even if they are not essential qualities once that aim has been achieved.
|
|
|
Post by oggyoggy on Aug 9, 2022 11:47:01 GMT
Charisma is not a particularly necessary skill for a PM. They just need to be able to manage the country well and avoid crises and avoid the limelight. I think Starmer can do that better than any of the tories. Interesting that the lib dems have now adopted my policy of not allowing the energy price cap to be increased. Charisma, i.e. getting people to notice you, getting people to listen to you and getting people to be enthused by you is essential to becoming the PM even if they are not essential qualities once that aim has been achieved. Yes, I think you are right. And that’s because the electorate is thick and thinks celebrity qualities are important. When we actually need the best public administrator in the country.
|
|
|
Post by Rednwhitenblue on Aug 9, 2022 11:53:55 GMT
Charisma is not a particularly necessary skill for a PM. They just need to be able to manage the country well and avoid crises and avoid the limelight. I think Starmer can do that better than any of the tories. Interesting that the lib dems have now adopted my policy of not allowing the energy price cap to be increased. Charisma, i.e. getting people to notice you, getting people to listen to you and getting people to be enthused by you is essential to becoming the PM even if they are not essential qualities once that aim has been achieved. I suspect that goes a long way to explaining why the country is in such a mess. In much the same way that I'd rather have someone competent carrying out any surgery I might need, rather than Lee Mack having a go, boring competence and trying to do the right thing for the majority of people in the country, rather than a vocal, wealthy few, seems much more sensible. I couldn't give a fuck if Starmer is the world's most boring man. I don't want to knock about with him. Likewise, Angela Merkel didn't strike me as a laugh a minute either but I'd rather have had her running the country in place of anyone since 2007. My guess is we wouldn't be anywhere near as fucked.
|
|
|
Post by yeokel on Aug 9, 2022 12:02:32 GMT
Charisma, i.e. getting people to notice you, getting people to listen to you and getting people to be enthused by you is essential to becoming the PM even if they are not essential qualities once that aim has been achieved. Yes, I think you are right. And that’s because the electorate is thick and thinks celebrity qualities are important. When we actually need the best public administrator in the country. To a large degree I agree with you Although I would hesitate to say that the electric is “thick”. It’s just that, sadly, most of them are disinterested in politics, too easily led by the media, too much of the mindset that “they’re all the same“, and too happy to moan about things down the pub or on Internet forums, or letters to the press without actually getting up off their arses and trying to do something about it.
|
|
|
Post by iglugluk on Aug 9, 2022 12:03:05 GMT
Charisma is not a particularly necessary skill for a PM. They just need to be able to manage the country well and avoid crises and avoid the limelight. I think Starmer can do that better than any of the tories. Interesting that the lib dems have now adopted my policy of not allowing the energy price cap to be increased. Charisma, i.e. getting people to notice you, getting people to listen to you and getting people to be enthused by you is essential to becoming the PM even if they are not essential qualities once that aim has been achieved. The expulsion of Ken Loach from the Labour Party was a dark day for Keir Starmer's leadership of the party as far as I'm concerned.
|
|
|
Post by oggyoggy on Aug 9, 2022 12:42:27 GMT
Yes, I think you are right. And that’s because the electorate is thick and thinks celebrity qualities are important. When we actually need the best public administrator in the country. To a large degree I agree with you Although I would hesitate to say that the electric is “thick”. It’s just that, sadly, most of them are disinterested in politics, too easily led by the media, too much of the mindset that “they’re all the same“, and too happy to moan about things down the pub or on Internet forums, or letters to the press without actually getting up off their arses and trying to do something about it. I would call that thick. But there is probably a better word for it. People need to take responsibility for their actions at the ballot box.
|
|
|
Post by foster on Aug 9, 2022 12:46:40 GMT
To a large degree I agree with you Although I would hesitate to say that the electric is “thick”. It’s just that, sadly, most of them are disinterested in politics, too easily led by the media, too much of the mindset that “they’re all the same“, and too happy to moan about things down the pub or on Internet forums, or letters to the press without actually getting up off their arses and trying to do something about it. I would call that thick. But there is probably a better word for it. People need to take responsibility for their actions at the ballot box. People wouldn't and shouldn't have to double check everything and know all the ins and outs of each aspect of government if the Politicians and Media just told the truth and stopped bullshitting.
|
|
|
Post by wannabee on Aug 9, 2022 12:48:55 GMT
I will reply to each of your comments: " How typically disingenuous to blame EU for a problem made manifestly worse by Brexit Undeniably Agriculture is a polluter but what the Common Agricultural Policy has to do with human waste being pumped into our Rivers and Seas is beyond my comprehension."
The problem of sewage entering UK rivers has not been made significantly worse by Brexit. The Guardian article in your link actually states: " Sewage treatment chemicals have been added to the growing list of products in short supply because of the UK’s chronic lorry driver shortage" www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/sep/07/government-ease-sewage-discharge-rules-amid-chemical-shortageThe Guardian then says much later in the article: " The chemicals industry is the latest in a series of sectors hit by the chronic shortage of lorry drivers caused by Brexit and the pandemic. " The topic of lorry diver shortages has been debated at length on this MB. The Guardian are as usual showing their anti Brexit bias and failing to list the full facts. Firstly there was already a lorry driver shortage throughout Europe and North America before the pandemic. The pandemic caused a lot of HGV lorry drivers to change profession and switch to alternative employment such as delivering for supermarkets. Some foreign lorry drivers returned to their homeland during the pandemic to be with their families. It is accepted that some foreign lorry drivers chose not to return to the UK after the pandemic, but the main factor that stopped lorry drivers returning the the UK was the government introducing the IR35 rules to make sure that workers, who would have been an employee if they were providing their services directly to the client, pay broadly the same Income Tax and National Insurance contributions as employees. These rules "dis-incentivised" many foreign workers from returning to the UK, or indeed to leave the UK, because now they would be required to pay more tax. Some I understand were previously claiming their accommodation in the UK and travelling from their homeland as expenses against taxation. The fact that there was no serious implications from the driver shortage during the pandemic, or after the pandemic, or after the UK left the EU, but only after April 2021 when the IR35 rules were introduced. is evidence that that is the straw that broke the camels back so to speak. To return to your first paragraph above, it is a fact that agriculture is the main source of pollution of UK rivers and much of Europe, which in turn is attributable to the EU Common Agricultural Policy that drives intensive farming. I did not state that the CAP was the cause of sewage entering water courses. I was putting the sources of river pollution in context. There seems to be an inference that sewage entering water courses in a new thing. It has been going on since man first walked on the earth and relieved himself. The first sewers discharged into waterways untreated effluent. The treatment of sewage has been a slow progression since Victorian times. Even in my youth in the 40s and 50s it was customary for all coastal towns to discharge their effluent into the sea. It has always been the case that in the event of heavy rain sewage overflowed from sewers that are to this day unable to cope with the extra load. In most of the world sewage is discharged to waterways in fact in India only 20% of sewage is treated. To return to your post and the second paragraph: " As said Brexit has made the situation much worse as the Environment Agency gave Water Companies Carte Blanche to dump Raw Sewage because Chemicals to treat it were unavailable due to logistics issues in supply from EU as a result of Brexit"
Water companies were not given Carte Blanche to dump raw sewage that is completely untrue. Your own link says " The government has told wastewater plants in England they may be able to discharge effluent that has not been fully treated " " may be able" is not carte Blanche; " not been fully treated" is not dumping raw sewage. The issue was the unavailability of ferric sulphate (a by-product of the steel industry) which is used to flocculate particles in the effluent causing the final effluent to have a lower concentration of suspended solids. Not all plants use ferric sulphate or need to use it all the time, but only under certain operating conditions such as high loading in wet weather. As it happens I don't believe any water company has been found to have polluted any water stream because of a shortage of ferric sulphate. I'd appreciate it if you could advise of any pollution incidents as a result of the easement the EU granted water companies. Next you stated: " The Government further attempted to erode regulation by placing no responsibility on Water Companies for their actions until it was forced into a U Turn by HoL"
Stating the government (EA) tried to place no responsibility on water companies for their actions is nonsense. The companies are required to obtain permits to operate and are required to meet the conditions of those permits. The fact that those conditions fall well short of the expectation of the public is entirely another matter. As I was pointing out to huddy in my original post it is impracticable to prevent sewage discharge into rivers during heavy rain fall; it always has been and it will be for decades to come. Your next link: fullfact.org/environment/murky-claims-about-sewage-bill-fact-checked/The government did not vote to allow sewage to be dumped, it already is and has always been done. The government voted against an amendment that required sewage companies to reduce their discharge of sewage. That is quite logical. The incidents of sewage discharge are increasing each year due to climate change and increased frequency of weather extremes. To pass a law at this time would be like Canute commanding the tide to stop. Your next comment was: " Another Brexit lie was that UK would have Greener Legislation after Brexit Of course this was rhetoric and the opposite is true"www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/mar/16/ministers-watering-down-green-pledges-post-brexit-study-findsPlease read again slowly, the article says absolutely nothing of any substance, and is really just a load of eccentric "greens" belly aching because the UK has left the EU. The fact is the UK has started to reverse the dreadful EU common agricultural policy which is extremely against the interests of any decent person and the environment. The new agriculture legislation includes Environmental Stewardship, a scheme under which farmers and land managers are paid for effectively managing their land in a manner which protects and enhances the environment and wildlife. This policy could not be adopted without the UK having restored sovereignty. Furthermore relevant to main topic under debate the government has issued a plan to curb pollution from the "most damaging" storm overflows by 75% by 2035, and 80% of all discharges by 2050. The Tideway project is the first major step. This could also have been done if the UK had remained in the EU. As for the ownership of water companies, I am not really interested, neither are the politicians. The water industry was privatised by a Tory government in 1989 and we have had different governments since then that have chosen not to change it. If you want to bang the drum about nationalising water companies carry on. In my original post I derided your introduction of CAP into a discussion about Raw Sewage being dumped into our Rivers and Seas. You have now replied in a very long post half of which is about CAP, very strange Food (mostly imported) Air (very poor quality but a discussion for another day) Shelter and Water are the four essentials which sustain life. I find your indifference to 70%+ Foreign Ownership of Water strange and contradictory to your Brexit beliefs When you consider only Chile and some US Cities in the World are the only places in the World beside England which has Water and Sanitation in Private Ownership - hardly taking back control, nevermind The Poliical Philosophy of Privatization is to create competition which lowers the price to the Consumer The Water Model in England is anything but, its a Cartel Monopoly which has increased Water Cost by 40% in real terms since Privatisation fullfact.org/economy/water-bills-privatisation/Have these Foreign Owned Water Monopolies done a good job? For their Government Wealth and Foreign Pension Funds, YES For the UK Taxpayer Absolutely NOT They have repatriated £57Bn out of UK since Privatisation and at the same time built up a mountain of debt limiting any ability to actually fund much needed infrastructure problems www.google.com/amp/s/www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/article-10172167/amp/UKs-cash-drain-water-firms-rack-50bn-debt.htmlYou acknowledge to fix the Water Infrastructure in England will take a lot of money, sure the £57Bn repatriated out of UK would have made a big difference What makes Scotland, Wales and NI which are Publically owned so different www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/environment/2020/jul/01/england-privatised-water-firms-dividends-shareholdersAre these Foreign Owned Water Companies doing a good job in protect the Environment? Are they Fcuk Let's examine one of the more egregious offenders Southern Water. They are taking the Piss (and Shit) out of their Captive Customers by deliberately dumping billions of litres, pints if you prefer, of Raw Sewage and were Criminally Prosecuted They were fined a record amount of £90M. www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jul/09/southern-water-fined-90m-for-deliberately-pouring-sewage-into-seaDon't worry though Southern Water still made £139M of Profit after paying the fine which they were able to send to its overseas owners Southern Water consistently make 30%+ profits which is consistent with a monopoly And did Southern Water learn their lesson for deliberately polluting and getting away with a Fine rather than its Directors being sent to Jail? Of course not, it is much cheaper to pay the fine and still make profits than fix the infrastructure Here www.google.com/amp/s/www.sussexlive.co.uk/news/sussex-news/outrage-southern-water-dump-sewage-6095167.ampAnd here www.itv.com/news/meridian/2022-02-08/major-sewage-spill-at-eastbourne-after-electrical-fault-at-southern-water-siteAnd who owns Southern Water? US: JP Morgan Asset Fund 40% Swiss: UBS Asset Management 22% US: Hermes Infrastructure Fund 21% Italy: Patrizia AG 8% As I said earlier I find it a very strange position for a Brexiteer who espouses Sovereignty and Taking back Control but is indifferent to a precious commodity like Water being in Majority Foreign Ownership and being managed appallingly to boot at the expense of the English Environment It places us alongside Chile as the only Country in the World that would adopt such a policy , but if that's your opinion, so be it.
|
|
|
Post by spitthedog on Aug 9, 2022 12:53:46 GMT
It's quite obvious that the government needs to make bigger payments for energy bills-£400 is woefully inadequate for many. All this stuff about tax cuts is not only woefully inadequate but also poorly directed. It's almost getting to the point of needing a cross-party approach to address the cost of living crisis but the Tories cannot even agree amongst themselves and are just positioning themselves for a place in the next cabinet etc. That fact is £4200 means fuck all to Truss and Sunak. We subsidise MP's energy bills through our taxes anyway. and even if they didn't get them covered it's just spare change to them.
|
|
|
Post by oggyoggy on Aug 9, 2022 13:44:57 GMT
I would call that thick. But there is probably a better word for it. People need to take responsibility for their actions at the ballot box. People wouldn't and shouldn't have to double check everything and know all the ins and outs of each aspect of government if the Politicians and Media just told the truth and stopped bullshitting. Yes, you are right. But if you don’t educate yourself as to what you are voting for then you vote blindly for something (like leaving the EU without any plan in what will happen when we leave). Don’t vote tory and then complain that public services are poor, or workers want to strike. Likewise don’t vote labour and then complain about benefits payments being too high or high taxes. Sadly our electoral system means only two parties can ever be in power and I think that disillusions many (me included, but I like to follow politics).
|
|
|
Post by mrcoke on Aug 9, 2022 14:31:00 GMT
I will reply to each of your comments: " How typically disingenuous to blame EU for a problem made manifestly worse by Brexit Undeniably Agriculture is a polluter but what the Common Agricultural Policy has to do with human waste being pumped into our Rivers and Seas is beyond my comprehension."
The problem of sewage entering UK rivers has not been made significantly worse by Brexit. The Guardian article in your link actually states: " Sewage treatment chemicals have been added to the growing list of products in short supply because of the UK’s chronic lorry driver shortage" www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/sep/07/government-ease-sewage-discharge-rules-amid-chemical-shortageThe Guardian then says much later in the article: " The chemicals industry is the latest in a series of sectors hit by the chronic shortage of lorry drivers caused by Brexit and the pandemic. " The topic of lorry diver shortages has been debated at length on this MB. The Guardian are as usual showing their anti Brexit bias and failing to list the full facts. Firstly there was already a lorry driver shortage throughout Europe and North America before the pandemic. The pandemic caused a lot of HGV lorry drivers to change profession and switch to alternative employment such as delivering for supermarkets. Some foreign lorry drivers returned to their homeland during the pandemic to be with their families. It is accepted that some foreign lorry drivers chose not to return to the UK after the pandemic, but the main factor that stopped lorry drivers returning the the UK was the government introducing the IR35 rules to make sure that workers, who would have been an employee if they were providing their services directly to the client, pay broadly the same Income Tax and National Insurance contributions as employees. These rules "dis-incentivised" many foreign workers from returning to the UK, or indeed to leave the UK, because now they would be required to pay more tax. Some I understand were previously claiming their accommodation in the UK and travelling from their homeland as expenses against taxation. The fact that there was no serious implications from the driver shortage during the pandemic, or after the pandemic, or after the UK left the EU, but only after April 2021 when the IR35 rules were introduced. is evidence that that is the straw that broke the camels back so to speak. To return to your first paragraph above, it is a fact that agriculture is the main source of pollution of UK rivers and much of Europe, which in turn is attributable to the EU Common Agricultural Policy that drives intensive farming. I did not state that the CAP was the cause of sewage entering water courses. I was putting the sources of river pollution in context. There seems to be an inference that sewage entering water courses in a new thing. It has been going on since man first walked on the earth and relieved himself. The first sewers discharged into waterways untreated effluent. The treatment of sewage has been a slow progression since Victorian times. Even in my youth in the 40s and 50s it was customary for all coastal towns to discharge their effluent into the sea. It has always been the case that in the event of heavy rain sewage overflowed from sewers that are to this day unable to cope with the extra load. In most of the world sewage is discharged to waterways in fact in India only 20% of sewage is treated. To return to your post and the second paragraph: " As said Brexit has made the situation much worse as the Environment Agency gave Water Companies Carte Blanche to dump Raw Sewage because Chemicals to treat it were unavailable due to logistics issues in supply from EU as a result of Brexit"
Water companies were not given Carte Blanche to dump raw sewage that is completely untrue. Your own link says " The government has told wastewater plants in England they may be able to discharge effluent that has not been fully treated " " may be able" is not carte Blanche; " not been fully treated" is not dumping raw sewage. The issue was the unavailability of ferric sulphate (a by-product of the steel industry) which is used to flocculate particles in the effluent causing the final effluent to have a lower concentration of suspended solids. Not all plants use ferric sulphate or need to use it all the time, but only under certain operating conditions such as high loading in wet weather. As it happens I don't believe any water company has been found to have polluted any water stream because of a shortage of ferric sulphate. I'd appreciate it if you could advise of any pollution incidents as a result of the easement the EU granted water companies. Next you stated: " The Government further attempted to erode regulation by placing no responsibility on Water Companies for their actions until it was forced into a U Turn by HoL"
Stating the government (EA) tried to place no responsibility on water companies for their actions is nonsense. The companies are required to obtain permits to operate and are required to meet the conditions of those permits. The fact that those conditions fall well short of the expectation of the public is entirely another matter. As I was pointing out to huddy in my original post it is impracticable to prevent sewage discharge into rivers during heavy rain fall; it always has been and it will be for decades to come. Your next link: fullfact.org/environment/murky-claims-about-sewage-bill-fact-checked/The government did not vote to allow sewage to be dumped, it already is and has always been done. The government voted against an amendment that required sewage companies to reduce their discharge of sewage. That is quite logical. The incidents of sewage discharge are increasing each year due to climate change and increased frequency of weather extremes. To pass a law at this time would be like Canute commanding the tide to stop. Your next comment was: " Another Brexit lie was that UK would have Greener Legislation after Brexit Of course this was rhetoric and the opposite is true"www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/mar/16/ministers-watering-down-green-pledges-post-brexit-study-findsPlease read again slowly, the article says absolutely nothing of any substance, and is really just a load of eccentric "greens" belly aching because the UK has left the EU. The fact is the UK has started to reverse the dreadful EU common agricultural policy which is extremely against the interests of any decent person and the environment. The new agriculture legislation includes Environmental Stewardship, a scheme under which farmers and land managers are paid for effectively managing their land in a manner which protects and enhances the environment and wildlife. This policy could not be adopted without the UK having restored sovereignty. Furthermore relevant to main topic under debate the government has issued a plan to curb pollution from the "most damaging" storm overflows by 75% by 2035, and 80% of all discharges by 2050. The Tideway project is the first major step. This could also have been done if the UK had remained in the EU. As for the ownership of water companies, I am not really interested, neither are the politicians. The water industry was privatised by a Tory government in 1989 and we have had different governments since then that have chosen not to change it. If you want to bang the drum about nationalising water companies carry on. In my original post I derided your introduction of CAP into a discussion about Raw Sewage being dumped into our Rivers and Seas. You have now replied in a very long post half of which is about CAP, very strange Food (mostly imported) Air (very poor quality but a discussion for another day) Shelter and Water are the four essentials which sustain life. I find your indifference to 70%+ Foreign Ownership of Water strange and contradictory to your Brexit beliefs When you consider only Chile and some US Cities in the World are the only places in the World beside England which has Water and Sanitation in Private Ownership - hardly taking back control, nevermind The Poliical Philosophy of Privatization is to create competition which lowers the price to the Consumer The Water Model in England is anything but, its a Cartel Monopoly which has increased Water Cost by 40% in real terms since Privatisation fullfact.org/economy/water-bills-privatisation/Have these Foreign Owned Water Monopolies done a good job? For their Government Wealth and Foreign Pension Funds, YES For the UK Taxpayer Absolutely NOT They have repatriated £57Bn out of UK since Privatisation and at the same time built up a mountain of debt limiting any ability to actually fund much needed infrastructure problems www.google.com/amp/s/www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/article-10172167/amp/UKs-cash-drain-water-firms-rack-50bn-debt.htmlYou acknowledge to fix the Water Infrastructure in England will take a lot of money, sure the £57Bn repatriated out of UK would have made a big difference What makes Scotland, Wales and NI which are Publically owned so different www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/environment/2020/jul/01/england-privatised-water-firms-dividends-shareholdersAre these Foreign Owned Water Companies doing a good job in protect the Environment? Are they Fcuk Let's examine one of the more egregious offenders Southern Water. They are taking the Piss (and Shit) out of their Captive Customers by deliberately dumping billions of litres, pints if you prefer, of Raw Sewage and were Criminally Prosecuted They were fined a record amount of £90M. www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jul/09/southern-water-fined-90m-for-deliberately-pouring-sewage-into-seaDon't worry though Southern Water still made £139M of Profit after paying the fine which they were able to send to its overseas owners Southern Water consistently make 30%+ profits which is consistent with a monopoly And did Southern Water learn their lesson for deliberately polluting and getting away with a Fine rather than its Directors being sent to Jail? Of course not, it is much cheaper to pay the fine and still make profits than fix the infrastructure Here www.google.com/amp/s/www.sussexlive.co.uk/news/sussex-news/outrage-southern-water-dump-sewage-6095167.ampAnd here www.itv.com/news/meridian/2022-02-08/major-sewage-spill-at-eastbourne-after-electrical-fault-at-southern-water-siteAnd who owns Southern Water? US: JP Morgan Asset Fund 40% Swiss: UBS Asset Management 22% US: Hermes Infrastructure Fund 21% Italy: Patrizia AG 8% As I said earlier I find it a very strange position for a Brexiteer who espouses Sovereignty and Taking back Control but is indifferent to a precious commodity like Water being in Majority Foreign Ownership and being managed appallingly to boot at the expense of the English Environment It places us alongside Chile as the only Country in the World that would adopt such a policy , but if that's your opinion, so be it. I harp on about the CAP because there is more pollution in British and European rivers due to agriculture than sewage. My belief in Brexit is not contradictory to foreign ownership of assets in the UK. I have spent a large part of my life working for French, Anglo-Dutch, and Indian companies who have thankfully invested in the UK. Brexit is about sovereignty, I.e. taking back control where laws are passed by British elected politicians whom the public can change. Foreign ownership of water is a consequence of the British selling their assets to foreign countries which successive elected governments have let happen. Its all about freedom to do what you wish, including electing the people who make our laws. The problem with democracy is you get what you want! (?) The alternative is less desirable, though. Germany has an idealistic constitution and election system, and look at the economic mess they have got themselves into. If we have foreign owned companies, freeports, FPTP elections, obscene profits by water and energy companies, and all the other things that posters on here complain about, it is because we have elected the politicians who made/let them happen. Some people may prefer to be ruled from Brussels but I don't. Some people may prefer the German system of government but I don't. You clearly have a passion for public ownership of water. I hope you have done something about it. If that were to happen, would you then campaign for public ownership of food production, processing, and retail? After all the CAP is responsible the main cause of river pollution throughout Europe and a large part of climate change emissions from animals, wasted over produced food, food processing, packaging, and transportation. Can farmers and all the corporations processing food, producing fertilisers, herbicides, insecticides, etc. be trusted? Personally I believe such things are best in private hands but strictly regulated by government, which clearly successive British governments have failed to do. To conclude on the original point huddy posted on; when it rains heavily, the sewers get overloaded and not fully treated sewage (rarely raw sewage) enters the water courses. It always has and it will continue well after 2050 on current government targets. In fact due to the increased frequency of extreme weather conditions it will probably get worse before it gets better.
|
|
|
Post by dutchstokie on Aug 9, 2022 14:34:40 GMT
When will the first fuel poverty death be? I'll go for early November. It's certainly one way of forcing people back to the office. Will people be sleeping in offices to save money on heating homes? Not an option for granny, sadly, but she can always ride a bus all day. Conservative Britain, 2022. Fifth largest economy in the world. A granny riding the bus all day - on a FREE bus pass? Adding evenr MORE CO2 to the atmos.... the bitch ! Let her freeze...... ( I didnt realise things were that bad over there mate, its fuckin disgusting how quickly the UK seems to be going down the shitter.)
|
|
|
Post by phileetin on Aug 9, 2022 14:43:59 GMT
Unfortunately there seems little hope of that with Kier ‘Zero Charisma’ Starmer at the helm Charisma is not a particularly necessary skill for a PM. They just need to be able to manage the country well and avoid crises and avoid the limelight. I think Starmer can do that better than any of the tories. Interesting that the lib dems have now adopted my policy of not allowing the energy price cap to be increased.
starmer reminds me of john major and the spitting image puppet .
he's got no chance , rayner will have the knives ready for knifing him in the back at the first opportunity. Hell hath no fury .........
|
|
|
Post by oggyoggy on Aug 9, 2022 15:04:11 GMT
Charisma is not a particularly necessary skill for a PM. They just need to be able to manage the country well and avoid crises and avoid the limelight. I think Starmer can do that better than any of the tories. Interesting that the lib dems have now adopted my policy of not allowing the energy price cap to be increased. starmer reminds me of john major and the spitting image puppet . he's got no chance , rayner will have the knives ready for knifing him in the back at the first opportunity. Hell hath no fury .........
You may be right. But then the tory party are hardly a picture of unification!
|
|
|
Post by Rednwhitenblue on Aug 9, 2022 15:15:17 GMT
It's certainly one way of forcing people back to the office. Will people be sleeping in offices to save money on heating homes? Not an option for granny, sadly, but she can always ride a bus all day. Conservative Britain, 2022. Fifth largest economy in the world. A granny riding the bus all day - on a FREE bus pass? Adding evenr MORE CO2 to the atmos.... the bitch ! Let her freeze...... ( I didnt realise things were that bad over there mate, its fuckin disgusting how quickly the UK seems to be going down the shitter.) Not all that surprising though, is it, given the decisions of the last few years. You made the right one in emigrating to the Netherlands, may well end up doing something similar and join the extended family in Deutschland, once the youngest has finished Uni. They keep saying we should move out there! It becomes an increasingly attractive proposition almost daily at the moment!
|
|
|
Post by Rednwhitenblue on Aug 9, 2022 15:17:10 GMT
In my original post I derided your introduction of CAP into a discussion about Raw Sewage being dumped into our Rivers and Seas. You have now replied in a very long post half of which is about CAP, very strange Food (mostly imported) Air (very poor quality but a discussion for another day) Shelter and Water are the four essentials which sustain life. I find your indifference to 70%+ Foreign Ownership of Water strange and contradictory to your Brexit beliefs When you consider only Chile and some US Cities in the World are the only places in the World beside England which has Water and Sanitation in Private Ownership - hardly taking back control, nevermind The Poliical Philosophy of Privatization is to create competition which lowers the price to the Consumer The Water Model in England is anything but, its a Cartel Monopoly which has increased Water Cost by 40% in real terms since Privatisation fullfact.org/economy/water-bills-privatisation/Have these Foreign Owned Water Monopolies done a good job? For their Government Wealth and Foreign Pension Funds, YES For the UK Taxpayer Absolutely NOT They have repatriated £57Bn out of UK since Privatisation and at the same time built up a mountain of debt limiting any ability to actually fund much needed infrastructure problems www.google.com/amp/s/www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/article-10172167/amp/UKs-cash-drain-water-firms-rack-50bn-debt.htmlYou acknowledge to fix the Water Infrastructure in England will take a lot of money, sure the £57Bn repatriated out of UK would have made a big difference What makes Scotland, Wales and NI which are Publically owned so different www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/environment/2020/jul/01/england-privatised-water-firms-dividends-shareholdersAre these Foreign Owned Water Companies doing a good job in protect the Environment? Are they Fcuk Let's examine one of the more egregious offenders Southern Water. They are taking the Piss (and Shit) out of their Captive Customers by deliberately dumping billions of litres, pints if you prefer, of Raw Sewage and were Criminally Prosecuted They were fined a record amount of £90M. www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jul/09/southern-water-fined-90m-for-deliberately-pouring-sewage-into-seaDon't worry though Southern Water still made £139M of Profit after paying the fine which they were able to send to its overseas owners Southern Water consistently make 30%+ profits which is consistent with a monopoly And did Southern Water learn their lesson for deliberately polluting and getting away with a Fine rather than its Directors being sent to Jail? Of course not, it is much cheaper to pay the fine and still make profits than fix the infrastructure Here www.google.com/amp/s/www.sussexlive.co.uk/news/sussex-news/outrage-southern-water-dump-sewage-6095167.ampAnd here www.itv.com/news/meridian/2022-02-08/major-sewage-spill-at-eastbourne-after-electrical-fault-at-southern-water-siteAnd who owns Southern Water? US: JP Morgan Asset Fund 40% Swiss: UBS Asset Management 22% US: Hermes Infrastructure Fund 21% Italy: Patrizia AG 8% As I said earlier I find it a very strange position for a Brexiteer who espouses Sovereignty and Taking back Control but is indifferent to a precious commodity like Water being in Majority Foreign Ownership and being managed appallingly to boot at the expense of the English Environment It places us alongside Chile as the only Country in the World that would adopt such a policy , but if that's your opinion, so be it. I harp on about the CAP because there is more pollution in British and European rivers due to agriculture than sewage. My belief in Brexit is not contradictory to foreign ownership of assets in the UK. I have spent a large part of my life working for French, Anglo-Dutch, and Indian companies who have thankfully invested in the UK. Brexit is about sovereignty, I.e. taking back control where laws are passed by British elected politicians whom the public can change. Foreign ownership of water is a consequence of the British selling their assets to foreign countries which successive elected governments have let happen. Its all about freedom to do what you wish, including electing the people who make our laws. The problem with democracy is you get what you want! (?) The alternative is less desirable, though. Germany has an idealistic constitution and election system, and look at the economic mess they have got themselves into. If we have foreign owned companies, freeports, FPTP elections, obscene profits by water and energy companies, and all the other things that posters on here complain about, it is because we have elected the politicians who made/let them happen. Some people may prefer to be ruled from Brussels but I don't. Some people may prefer the German system of government but I don't. You clearly have a passion for public ownership of water. I hope you have done something about it. If that were to happen, would you then campaign for public ownership of food production, processing, and retail? After all the CAP is responsible the main cause of river pollution throughout Europe and a large part of climate change emissions from animals, wasted over produced food, food processing, packaging, and transportation. Can farmers and all the corporations processing food, producing fertilisers, herbicides, insecticides, etc. be trusted? Personally I believe such things are best in private hands but strictly regulated by government, which clearly successive British governments have failed to do. To conclude on the original point huddy posted on; when it rains heavily, the sewers get overloaded and not fully treated sewage (rarely raw sewage) enters the water courses. It always has and it will continue well after 2050 on current government targets. In fact due to the increased frequency of extreme weather conditions it will probably get worse before it gets better. Small point of correction - it's often raw sewage that gets discharged when it rains heavily; usually, in fact. Check out how CSOs operate. It may be diluted by the additional rainfall, but it's most definitely raw and untreated.
|
|
|
Post by Huddysleftfoot on Aug 9, 2022 16:16:21 GMT
It's certainly one way of forcing people back to the office. Will people be sleeping in offices to save money on heating homes? Not an option for granny, sadly, but she can always ride a bus all day. Conservative Britain, 2022. Fifth largest economy in the world. A granny riding the bus all day - on a FREE bus pass? Adding evenr MORE CO2 to the atmos.... the bitch ! Let her freeze...... ( I didnt realise things were that bad over there mate, its fuckin disgusting how quickly the UK seems to be going down the shitter.) Not only do the Dutch people own their infrastructure, they also own a fair lump of ours too.
|
|
|
Post by wannabee on Aug 9, 2022 16:19:53 GMT
In my original post I derided your introduction of CAP into a discussion about Raw Sewage being dumped into our Rivers and Seas. You have now replied in a very long post half of which is about CAP, very strange Food (mostly imported) Air (very poor quality but a discussion for another day) Shelter and Water are the four essentials which sustain life. I find your indifference to 70%+ Foreign Ownership of Water strange and contradictory to your Brexit beliefs When you consider only Chile and some US Cities in the World are the only places in the World beside England which has Water and Sanitation in Private Ownership - hardly taking back control, nevermind The Poliical Philosophy of Privatization is to create competition which lowers the price to the Consumer The Water Model in England is anything but, its a Cartel Monopoly which has increased Water Cost by 40% in real terms since Privatisation fullfact.org/economy/water-bills-privatisation/Have these Foreign Owned Water Monopolies done a good job? For their Government Wealth and Foreign Pension Funds, YES For the UK Taxpayer Absolutely NOT They have repatriated £57Bn out of UK since Privatisation and at the same time built up a mountain of debt limiting any ability to actually fund much needed infrastructure problems www.google.com/amp/s/www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/article-10172167/amp/UKs-cash-drain-water-firms-rack-50bn-debt.htmlYou acknowledge to fix the Water Infrastructure in England will take a lot of money, sure the £57Bn repatriated out of UK would have made a big difference What makes Scotland, Wales and NI which are Publically owned so different www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/environment/2020/jul/01/england-privatised-water-firms-dividends-shareholdersAre these Foreign Owned Water Companies doing a good job in protect the Environment? Are they Fcuk Let's examine one of the more egregious offenders Southern Water. They are taking the Piss (and Shit) out of their Captive Customers by deliberately dumping billions of litres, pints if you prefer, of Raw Sewage and were Criminally Prosecuted They were fined a record amount of £90M. www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jul/09/southern-water-fined-90m-for-deliberately-pouring-sewage-into-seaDon't worry though Southern Water still made £139M of Profit after paying the fine which they were able to send to its overseas owners Southern Water consistently make 30%+ profits which is consistent with a monopoly And did Southern Water learn their lesson for deliberately polluting and getting away with a Fine rather than its Directors being sent to Jail? Of course not, it is much cheaper to pay the fine and still make profits than fix the infrastructure Here www.google.com/amp/s/www.sussexlive.co.uk/news/sussex-news/outrage-southern-water-dump-sewage-6095167.ampAnd here www.itv.com/news/meridian/2022-02-08/major-sewage-spill-at-eastbourne-after-electrical-fault-at-southern-water-siteAnd who owns Southern Water? US: JP Morgan Asset Fund 40% Swiss: UBS Asset Management 22% US: Hermes Infrastructure Fund 21% Italy: Patrizia AG 8% As I said earlier I find it a very strange position for a Brexiteer who espouses Sovereignty and Taking back Control but is indifferent to a precious commodity like Water being in Majority Foreign Ownership and being managed appallingly to boot at the expense of the English Environment It places us alongside Chile as the only Country in the World that would adopt such a policy , but if that's your opinion, so be it. I harp on about the CAP because there is more pollution in British and European rivers due to agriculture than sewage. My belief in Brexit is not contradictory to foreign ownership of assets in the UK. I have spent a large part of my life working for French, Anglo-Dutch, and Indian companies who have thankfully invested in the UK. Brexit is about sovereignty, I.e. taking back control where laws are passed by British elected politicians whom the public can change. Foreign ownership of water is a consequence of the British selling their assets to foreign countries which successive elected governments have let happen. Its all about freedom to do what you wish, including electing the people who make our laws. The problem with democracy is you get what you want! (?) The alternative is less desirable, though. Germany has an idealistic constitution and election system, and look at the economic mess they have got themselves into. If we have foreign owned companies, freeports, FPTP elections, obscene profits by water and energy companies, and all the other things that posters on here complain about, it is because we have elected the politicians who made/let them happen. Some people may prefer to be ruled from Brussels but I don't. Some people may prefer the German system of government but I don't. You clearly have a passion for public ownership of water. I hope you have done something about it. If that were to happen, would you then campaign for public ownership of food production, processing, and retail? After all the CAP is responsible the main cause of river pollution throughout Europe and a large part of climate change emissions from animals, wasted over produced food, food processing, packaging, and transportation. Can farmers and all the corporations processing food, producing fertilisers, herbicides, insecticides, etc. be trusted? Personally I believe such things are best in private hands but strictly regulated by government, which clearly successive British governments have failed to do. To conclude on the original point huddy posted on; when it rains heavily, the sewers get overloaded and not fully treated sewage (rarely raw sewage) enters the water courses. It always has and it will continue well after 2050 on current government targets. In fact due to the increased frequency of extreme weather conditions it will probably get worse before it gets better. You continue to Tangenally and Irrelevantly discuss Brexit and CAP in a discussion about Raw Sewage being discharged into English Rivers and Seas There is perfectly adequate Brexit Thread to discuss such subjects I will only add the "opinions" you express on these are just that I also chose not to respond to your previous predictions that improvements may be made perhaps by 2035 and now maybe by 2050 Like you I have no great faith in forecasts and these seem pie in the Sky My Central Point is that almost uniquely (Except Chile) England is the only Country in the World which doesn't control its own Water and Sanitation I find it incongruous how England (Government) can possibly be in a position to influence improvements to something for which it doesn't own and allows Billions of Pounds in Profits to be sent overseas Never mind protecting the environment I also found it surprising that an avid Brexiteer would find this an acceptable situation but that's for you to reconcile. To try an create a false equivalence between a Foreign Company owning an English Business either as a standalone or part of a multinational organisation and Foreign Governments owning a basic utility, water, which is vital to the very existence of its population is bizarre
|
|
|
Post by oggyoggy on Aug 9, 2022 16:21:01 GMT
In my original post I derided your introduction of CAP into a discussion about Raw Sewage being dumped into our Rivers and Seas. You have now replied in a very long post half of which is about CAP, very strange Food (mostly imported) Air (very poor quality but a discussion for another day) Shelter and Water are the four essentials which sustain life. I find your indifference to 70%+ Foreign Ownership of Water strange and contradictory to your Brexit beliefs When you consider only Chile and some US Cities in the World are the only places in the World beside England which has Water and Sanitation in Private Ownership - hardly taking back control, nevermind The Poliical Philosophy of Privatization is to create competition which lowers the price to the Consumer The Water Model in England is anything but, its a Cartel Monopoly which has increased Water Cost by 40% in real terms since Privatisation fullfact.org/economy/water-bills-privatisation/Have these Foreign Owned Water Monopolies done a good job? For their Government Wealth and Foreign Pension Funds, YES For the UK Taxpayer Absolutely NOT They have repatriated £57Bn out of UK since Privatisation and at the same time built up a mountain of debt limiting any ability to actually fund much needed infrastructure problems www.google.com/amp/s/www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/article-10172167/amp/UKs-cash-drain-water-firms-rack-50bn-debt.htmlYou acknowledge to fix the Water Infrastructure in England will take a lot of money, sure the £57Bn repatriated out of UK would have made a big difference What makes Scotland, Wales and NI which are Publically owned so different www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/environment/2020/jul/01/england-privatised-water-firms-dividends-shareholdersAre these Foreign Owned Water Companies doing a good job in protect the Environment? Are they Fcuk Let's examine one of the more egregious offenders Southern Water. They are taking the Piss (and Shit) out of their Captive Customers by deliberately dumping billions of litres, pints if you prefer, of Raw Sewage and were Criminally Prosecuted They were fined a record amount of £90M. www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jul/09/southern-water-fined-90m-for-deliberately-pouring-sewage-into-seaDon't worry though Southern Water still made £139M of Profit after paying the fine which they were able to send to its overseas owners Southern Water consistently make 30%+ profits which is consistent with a monopoly And did Southern Water learn their lesson for deliberately polluting and getting away with a Fine rather than its Directors being sent to Jail? Of course not, it is much cheaper to pay the fine and still make profits than fix the infrastructure Here www.google.com/amp/s/www.sussexlive.co.uk/news/sussex-news/outrage-southern-water-dump-sewage-6095167.ampAnd here www.itv.com/news/meridian/2022-02-08/major-sewage-spill-at-eastbourne-after-electrical-fault-at-southern-water-siteAnd who owns Southern Water? US: JP Morgan Asset Fund 40% Swiss: UBS Asset Management 22% US: Hermes Infrastructure Fund 21% Italy: Patrizia AG 8% As I said earlier I find it a very strange position for a Brexiteer who espouses Sovereignty and Taking back Control but is indifferent to a precious commodity like Water being in Majority Foreign Ownership and being managed appallingly to boot at the expense of the English Environment It places us alongside Chile as the only Country in the World that would adopt such a policy , but if that's your opinion, so be it. I harp on about the CAP because there is more pollution in British and European rivers due to agriculture than sewage. My belief in Brexit is not contradictory to foreign ownership of assets in the UK. I have spent a large part of my life working for French, Anglo-Dutch, and Indian companies who have thankfully invested in the UK. Brexit is about sovereignty, I.e. taking back control where laws are passed by British elected politicians whom the public can change. Foreign ownership of water is a consequence of the British selling their assets to foreign countries which successive elected governments have let happen. Its all about freedom to do what you wish, including electing the people who make our laws. The problem with democracy is you get what you want! (?) The alternative is less desirable, though. Germany has an idealistic constitution and election system, and look at the economic mess they have got themselves into. If we have foreign owned companies, freeports, FPTP elections, obscene profits by water and energy companies, and all the other things that posters on here complain about, it is because we have elected the politicians who made/let them happen. Some people may prefer to be ruled from Brussels but I don't. Some people may prefer the German system of government but I don't. You clearly have a passion for public ownership of water. I hope you have done something about it. If that were to happen, would you then campaign for public ownership of food production, processing, and retail? After all the CAP is responsible the main cause of river pollution throughout Europe and a large part of climate change emissions from animals, wasted over produced food, food processing, packaging, and transportation. Can farmers and all the corporations processing food, producing fertilisers, herbicides, insecticides, etc. be trusted? Personally I believe such things are best in private hands but strictly regulated by government, which clearly successive British governments have failed to do. To conclude on the original point huddy posted on; when it rains heavily, the sewers get overloaded and not fully treated sewage (rarely raw sewage) enters the water courses. It always has and it will continue well after 2050 on current government targets. In fact due to the increased frequency of extreme weather conditions it will probably get worse before it gets better. It hasn’t rained heavily for months. We have a drought. Why are water companies still dumping excrement in our rivers?
|
|
|
Post by wannabee on Aug 9, 2022 16:24:29 GMT
I harp on about the CAP because there is more pollution in British and European rivers due to agriculture than sewage. My belief in Brexit is not contradictory to foreign ownership of assets in the UK. I have spent a large part of my life working for French, Anglo-Dutch, and Indian companies who have thankfully invested in the UK. Brexit is about sovereignty, I.e. taking back control where laws are passed by British elected politicians whom the public can change. Foreign ownership of water is a consequence of the British selling their assets to foreign countries which successive elected governments have let happen. Its all about freedom to do what you wish, including electing the people who make our laws. The problem with democracy is you get what you want! (?) The alternative is less desirable, though. Germany has an idealistic constitution and election system, and look at the economic mess they have got themselves into. If we have foreign owned companies, freeports, FPTP elections, obscene profits by water and energy companies, and all the other things that posters on here complain about, it is because we have elected the politicians who made/let them happen. Some people may prefer to be ruled from Brussels but I don't. Some people may prefer the German system of government but I don't. You clearly have a passion for public ownership of water. I hope you have done something about it. If that were to happen, would you then campaign for public ownership of food production, processing, and retail? After all the CAP is responsible the main cause of river pollution throughout Europe and a large part of climate change emissions from animals, wasted over produced food, food processing, packaging, and transportation. Can farmers and all the corporations processing food, producing fertilisers, herbicides, insecticides, etc. be trusted? Personally I believe such things are best in private hands but strictly regulated by government, which clearly successive British governments have failed to do. To conclude on the original point huddy posted on; when it rains heavily, the sewers get overloaded and not fully treated sewage (rarely raw sewage) enters the water courses. It always has and it will continue well after 2050 on current government targets. In fact due to the increased frequency of extreme weather conditions it will probably get worse before it gets better. It hasn’t rained heavily for months. We have a drought. Why are water companies still dumping excrement in our rivers? Great point 👍
|
|
|
Post by superjw on Aug 9, 2022 17:19:02 GMT
It's quite obvious that the government needs to make bigger payments for energy bills-£400 is woefully inadequate for many. All this stuff about tax cuts is not only woefully inadequate but also poorly directed. It's almost getting to the point of needing a cross-party approach to address the cost of living crisis but the Tories cannot even agree amongst themselves and are just positioning themselves for a place in the next cabinet etc. If the government can practically pay wages of large groups of the population for covid then they can certainly stump up the cash to cover people's energy increases so it stimulates more "normal" pricing. If anything deserves the over the top daily press briefing bollocks that we saw in covid, it's this crisis. Problem is, the more the government allow this to happen, the more people will recess in their spending because they physically can't pay anything outside of bills. This making any recession deeper and much longer to come out of. This tanks the economy even further with the end result probably being a depression.
|
|
|
Post by mrcoke on Aug 9, 2022 17:30:51 GMT
I harp on about the CAP because there is more pollution in British and European rivers due to agriculture than sewage. My belief in Brexit is not contradictory to foreign ownership of assets in the UK. I have spent a large part of my life working for French, Anglo-Dutch, and Indian companies who have thankfully invested in the UK. Brexit is about sovereignty, I.e. taking back control where laws are passed by British elected politicians whom the public can change. Foreign ownership of water is a consequence of the British selling their assets to foreign countries which successive elected governments have let happen. Its all about freedom to do what you wish, including electing the people who make our laws. The problem with democracy is you get what you want! (?) The alternative is less desirable, though. Germany has an idealistic constitution and election system, and look at the economic mess they have got themselves into. If we have foreign owned companies, freeports, FPTP elections, obscene profits by water and energy companies, and all the other things that posters on here complain about, it is because we have elected the politicians who made/let them happen. Some people may prefer to be ruled from Brussels but I don't. Some people may prefer the German system of government but I don't. You clearly have a passion for public ownership of water. I hope you have done something about it. If that were to happen, would you then campaign for public ownership of food production, processing, and retail? After all the CAP is responsible the main cause of river pollution throughout Europe and a large part of climate change emissions from animals, wasted over produced food, food processing, packaging, and transportation. Can farmers and all the corporations processing food, producing fertilisers, herbicides, insecticides, etc. be trusted? Personally I believe such things are best in private hands but strictly regulated by government, which clearly successive British governments have failed to do. To conclude on the original point huddy posted on; when it rains heavily, the sewers get overloaded and not fully treated sewage (rarely raw sewage) enters the water courses. It always has and it will continue well after 2050 on current government targets. In fact due to the increased frequency of extreme weather conditions it will probably get worse before it gets better. It hasn’t rained heavily for months. We have a drought. Why are water companies still dumping excrement in our rivers? Please advise where that is happening
|
|