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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jun 24, 2022 10:02:44 GMT
I call out racism when a racist makes racist posts on a public messageboard. You're complaining no one knows you yet here you are making assumptions about others? Utter lies again Happy to discuss. You clearly are not.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jun 24, 2022 10:04:13 GMT
The last time I voted “against” something instead of “for” something was in 2010 when I voted LibDem to help keep the Tories out. But we ended up with a Tory government anyway and I’m sure I don’t need to remind you of who was to blame for that. I suspect that there are many, many more like me who will never make that mistake again and will never trust the Liberal party again. Blaming the lib dems for tory policies now is idiotic! Think about almost every positive policy that came out of the coalition then have a look at where those policies came from: Seed investment tax relief for business investment - lib dems Legalise gay marriage- lib dems Increases to minimum wage - lib dems Increase tax free income threshold - lib dems National green investment bank - lib dems Apprenticeship schemes - lib dems Pupil premiums in schools - lib dems Proper separation of high street and investment banks - lib dems Shared parental leave - lib dems More free childcare- lib dems So basically the vast majority of good that was done during the coalition was lib dem policy and not tory policy. Don’t blame the lib dems for Brown not wanting to form a government with them and Cameron wanting to. They were then walked all over and have been punished since. But is that anger many have against the lib dems worth more of what we have now? The Lib Dems refused to work with Gordon Brown and preferred to work with Cameron. Let's not be rewriting history here please.
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Post by yeokel on Jun 24, 2022 10:05:22 GMT
The last time I voted “against” something instead of “for” something was in 2010 when I voted LibDem to help keep the Tories out. But we ended up with a Tory government anyway and I’m sure I don’t need to remind you of who was to blame for that. I suspect that there are many, many more like me who will never make that mistake again and will never trust the Liberal party again. Blaming the lib dems for tory policies now is idiotic! Think about almost every positive policy that came out of the coalition then have a look at where those policies came from: Seed investment tax relief for business investment - lib dems Legalise gay marriage- lib dems Increases to minimum wage - lib dems Increase tax free income threshold - lib dems National green investment bank - lib dems Apprenticeship schemes - lib dems Pupil premiums in schools - lib dems Proper separation of high street and investment banks - lib dems Shared parental leave - lib dems More free childcare- lib dems So basically the vast majority of good that was done during the coalition was lib dem policy and not tory policy. Don’t blame the lib dems for Brown not wanting to form a government with them and Cameron wanting to. They were then walked all over and have been punished since. But is that anger many have against the lib dems worth more of what we have now? It was Clegg who didn’t like Brown and courted Cameron, not the other way around, as I recall it. Either way, is the anger worth it? Well, all I can say is that it is very deep and very heartfelt. From then on, and from now on I vote for a positive message and not a negative “against” message. That probably isn’t going to win me any government to which I am favourable anytime soon, but at least it will have been my choice and my decision to support something positive, and not just try to avoid something. And, as I said, I think there is a hell of a lot of people who think that way regarding the Liberal party and you underestimate the depth of that feeling that your peril.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jun 24, 2022 10:18:58 GMT
I don’t think Starmer is capable of stepping up. He has zero charisma and apparently no political message. He doesn’t seem to stand for anything. I wish it was different because I suspect the one thing you and I would agree on, Oggy, is we need to get rid of this PM and this government as soon as possible. But, sadly, Starmer is not the man to do it. Starmer may not win a labour majority. But he is inoffensive to lib dem voters, and even tories who hate Johnson don’t hate Starmer like they did Corbyn and so may vote lib dem to oust Johnson even if it leads to a Starmer led government. There is a clear anti tory majority while Johnson is PM, and voters are beginning to realise in our undemocratic voting system, it is all about who you are voting against, rather than for. So if we see trends as they are going with anti tory voting for whichever party has the best chance of beating the tories, the tories will be denied their majority. If the Tories replace Johnson, that may change. I'd be surprised if he did win a majority. When was the last time an opposition overturned an 80 seat majority? Must be decades ago. That said, Johnson's Tory govt is doing almost the best job possible of making themselves unelectable to all but people who'd vote blue whatever it meant. I suspect that that reality underpins the conversation that is going on in Tory circles right now, how long do we have left to get rid of Johnson and lose at least some of his toxicity. I think quite a while actually. I read that if he was still here this summer that he'd lead them into the next election. I'm not sure that's correct. If you assume the next election is summer 2024, there's nothing to stop Bozo being propped up until next summer, deposed and replaced with a new, clean broom accompanied by tax cut bribes with one year left to run. That, or, if Johnson stays, what kind of red meat dog whistle stuff can we dream up to get some populist support back: immigrants, EU, lefty lawyers, "Labour-supported" strikes, that kind of stuff.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jun 24, 2022 10:20:53 GMT
Starmer may not win a labour majority. But he is inoffensive to lib dem voters, and even tories who hate Johnson don’t hate Starmer like they did Corbyn and so may vote lib dem to oust Johnson even if it leads to a Starmer led government. There is a clear anti tory majority while Johnson is PM, and voters are beginning to realise in our undemocratic voting system, it is all about who you are voting against, rather than for. So if we see trends as they are going with anti tory voting for whichever party has the best chance of beating the tories, the tories will be denied their majority. If the Tories replace Johnson, that may change. I'd be surprised if he did win a majority. When was the last time an opposition overturned an 80 seat majority? Must be decades ago, possibly pre-WWI even. That said, Johnson's Tory govt is doing almost the best job possible of making themselves unelectable to all but people who'd vote blue whatever it meant. I suspect that that reality underpins the conversation that is going on in Tory circles right now, how long do we have left to get rid of Johnson and lose at least some of his toxicity. I think quite a while actually. I read that if he was still here this summer that he'd lead them into the next election. I'm not sure that's correct. If you assume the next election is summer 2024, there's nothing to stop Bozo being propped up until next summer, deposed and replaced with a new, clean broom accompanied by tax cut bribes with one year left to run. That, or, if Johnson stays, what kind of red meat dog whistle stuff can we dream up to get some populist support back: immigrants, EU, lefty lawyers, "Labour-supported" strikes, that kind of stuff. Don't put it past Johnson to call a snap election before this year is out.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jun 24, 2022 10:28:04 GMT
I'd be surprised if he did win a majority. When was the last time an opposition overturned an 80 seat majority? Must be decades ago, possibly pre-WWI even. That said, Johnson's Tory govt is doing almost the best job possible of making themselves unelectable to all but people who'd vote blue whatever it meant. I suspect that that reality underpins the conversation that is going on in Tory circles right now, how long do we have left to get rid of Johnson and lose at least some of his toxicity. I think quite a while actually. I read that if he was still here this summer that he'd lead them into the next election. I'm not sure that's correct. If you assume the next election is summer 2024, there's nothing to stop Bozo being propped up until next summer, deposed and replaced with a new, clean broom accompanied by tax cut bribes with one year left to run. That, or, if Johnson stays, what kind of red meat dog whistle stuff can we dream up to get some populist support back: immigrants, EU, lefty lawyers, "Labour-supported" strikes, that kind of stuff. Don't put it past Johnson to call a snap election before this year is out. Interesting point. It is all about him, as we know, so why would he care if the entire lot got kicked out if he went too? I can't see it though. I think the men in grey suits would prevent him from doing so, line up potential successors and force his resignation. A successful election result in 2024 is much more likely having installed a new PM and Cabinet in a year or so, than under Johnson currently. Given the way it usually works, a lot of Tory inclined voters would simply swing back behind a new team at the top: they loved Cameron, then hated him when he stood for Remain; wanted May, then hated her because of the Brexit impasse; they loved Boris but now think he's a lying incompetent charlatan. Rinse and repeat basically.
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Post by knype on Jun 24, 2022 10:41:23 GMT
Happy to discuss. You clearly are not. Happy to discuss what?
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Post by wagsastokie on Jun 24, 2022 10:54:09 GMT
Be interesting to see where we are shipping refugees to tomorrow to divert from today's cluster fuck results. I'll take Easter Island in the sweep I'll go the Falklands 😁 I’ve already suggested that Six months of counting penguins should discourage the The illegals
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Post by wannabee on Jun 24, 2022 11:00:58 GMT
"Events Dear Boy, Events " Macmillan You really need to catch up if you want to comment on this shit show The link you posted is VERY old news Since the first botched IOPC investigation Jennifer Arcuri has come forward with documentary evidence to support a charge of MALFEASANCE IN A PUBLIC OFFICE The GLA has no authority to prosecute that charge.only the IOPC The GLA Ethics Committee is collating the documtation to present to IOPC Which part of that are you failing to understand www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jan/29/fresh-revelations-about-jennifer-arcuri-affair-threaten-to-damage-boris-johnsonAn short extract commenting on what happened after the first IOPC investigation and what might now happen after Jennifer Arcuri new documentation may help you The IOPC left it to the Greater London Authority (GLA) to decide whether Mr Johnson’s failure to register his interest with Ms Arcuri breached its Code of Conduct.
At the time of writing the GLA has not yet ruled on this. But Ms Arcuri’s diary entries, which she has agreed to share with the GLA, raised possibility of the authority referring the whole issue back to the IOPC which could, in turn, trigger a criminal investigation into misconduct in public office. www.hickmanandrose.co.uk/will-the-publication-of-jennifer-arcuri-diaries-change-the-game-on-boris-johnson-misconduct-allegations/I have said several times I don't have confidence in IOPC doing a proper investigation 2nd time around but one way or another the whole gruby mess will come out via John Ware Thats all very interesting but it just really shows what a load of garbage you have been claiming. To summarise again the only investigation is by the GLA ethics committee as I have repeatedly said and you have denied, there is no second IOPC investigation ongoing its a figment of your imagination, the ethics committee may refer another political complaint there but considering the issue of payments has already been found to be above board, you are even dafter than you seem if you think the non declaral of an alleged affair leads to any criminal action in this world or the next. If you wish to believe the Moon is made of Green Cheese that's entirely your prerogative The original IOPC investigation was hampered because emails and phone records were deleted Now Jennifer has provided documentary evidence no such impediment exists In the short term it won't matter as his own party will turf him out and he will leave in disgrace and that with be his legacy and not the one he craves
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jun 24, 2022 11:12:04 GMT
Happy to discuss. You clearly are not. Happy to discuss what? You're accusing me of lying. I wish to discuss why I'm not and why your allegations are unfounded.
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Post by salopstick on Jun 24, 2022 11:12:17 GMT
I'd be surprised if he did win a majority. When was the last time an opposition overturned an 80 seat majority? Must be decades ago, possibly pre-WWI even. That said, Johnson's Tory govt is doing almost the best job possible of making themselves unelectable to all but people who'd vote blue whatever it meant. I suspect that that reality underpins the conversation that is going on in Tory circles right now, how long do we have left to get rid of Johnson and lose at least some of his toxicity. I think quite a while actually. I read that if he was still here this summer that he'd lead them into the next election. I'm not sure that's correct. If you assume the next election is summer 2024, there's nothing to stop Bozo being propped up until next summer, deposed and replaced with a new, clean broom accompanied by tax cut bribes with one year left to run. That, or, if Johnson stays, what kind of red meat dog whistle stuff can we dream up to get some populist support back: immigrants, EU, lefty lawyers, "Labour-supported" strikes, that kind of stuff. Don't put it past Johnson to call a snap election before this year is out. Easy for the libs to send 5000 activists to blanket Bomb bi-elections with enough paper to rebuild 10 rainforests as they did in Shropshire north also. A general election. Is s different kettle of fish. Boris will be gone before a snap election. He’s there by the skin of his teeth
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Jun 24, 2022 11:18:31 GMT
Thats all very interesting but it just really shows what a load of garbage you have been claiming. To summarise again the only investigation is by the GLA ethics committee as I have repeatedly said and you have denied, there is no second IOPC investigation ongoing its a figment of your imagination, the ethics committee may refer another political complaint there but considering the issue of payments has already been found to be above board, you are even dafter than you seem if you think the non declaral of an alleged affair leads to any criminal action in this world or the next. If you wish to believe the Moon is made of Green Cheese that's entirely your prerogative I think you will find the chances of FYD accepting the moon is made of cheese any colour other than blue are very slim.
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Post by 4372 on Jun 24, 2022 11:20:26 GMT
Don't put it past Johnson to call a snap election before this year is out. Easy for the libs to send 5000 activists to blanket Bomb bi-elections with enough paper to rebuild 10 rainforests as they did in Shropshire north also. A general election. Is s different kettle of fish. Boris will be gone before a snap election. He’s there by the skin of his teeth What's a bi-election? I might be interested lol....
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Post by followyoudown on Jun 24, 2022 11:41:33 GMT
Thats all very interesting but it just really shows what a load of garbage you have been claiming. To summarise again the only investigation is by the GLA ethics committee as I have repeatedly said and you have denied, there is no second IOPC investigation ongoing its a figment of your imagination, the ethics committee may refer another political complaint there but considering the issue of payments has already been found to be above board, you are even dafter than you seem if you think the non declaral of an alleged affair leads to any criminal action in this world or the next. If you wish to believe the Moon is made of Green Cheese that's entirely your prerogative The original IOPC investigation was hampered because emails and phone records were deleted Now Jennifer has provided documentary evidence no such impediment exists In the short term it won't matter as his own party will turf him out and he will leave in disgrace and that with be his legacy and not the one he craves Again very interesting, now how about you acknowledge the comments on the imaginary 2nd IOPC you suddenly seem less keen to mention.
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Post by knype on Jun 24, 2022 11:42:24 GMT
Weren't you calling people Gammons and Racists only last week? No need for name calling or mud slinging from all sides! Calling someone racist (if they display those traits) is not name calling. Gammon is the same. You and your type are happy to call people like me "woke" and "snowflake". Sadly for you I wear those insults as a badge of honour. One example
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jun 24, 2022 12:07:42 GMT
I'd so love for this to be true but (sadly) I don't think they are the same person (look at the nose) but the resemblance is uncanny.
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Post by wannabee on Jun 24, 2022 12:08:39 GMT
Blaming the lib dems for tory policies now is idiotic! Think about almost every positive policy that came out of the coalition then have a look at where those policies came from: Seed investment tax relief for business investment - lib dems Legalise gay marriage- lib dems Increases to minimum wage - lib dems Increase tax free income threshold - lib dems National green investment bank - lib dems Apprenticeship schemes - lib dems Pupil premiums in schools - lib dems Proper separation of high street and investment banks - lib dems Shared parental leave - lib dems More free childcare- lib dems So basically the vast majority of good that was done during the coalition was lib dem policy and not tory policy. Don’t blame the lib dems for Brown not wanting to form a government with them and Cameron wanting to. They were then walked all over and have been punished since. But is that anger many have against the lib dems worth more of what we have now? The Lib Dems refused to work with Gordon Brown and preferred to work with Cameron. Let's not be rewriting history here please. I'm sorry you can't have it both ways and list all the Libs achievements and then say the Libs were walked all over Any Coalition would have a programme for Government before it agreed to enter Government I have no idea if one existed we might not have had the Libs broken promises 1. Tuition Fees 2. VAT Increase to 20% having Campaigned against 3. Tax cut for Millionaires giving 13,000 Millionaires an average tax cut of 100,000 4. Mansion Tax, Clegg Campaigned for a Mansion Tax and said he would "stick to his guns" he voted against it 5. Sure Start Clegg promised to protect, he didn't 6. Police in Lib Manifesto promised to add 3000 backed Tories in cutting 15,000 7. Special Advisors In opposition Clegg said Special Advisors were Political Appointments and should be paid by the parties In Government he had 16 paid by the Taxpayers Don't get me wrong I'd welcome any Government other than this shower but to suggest the Libs exercised any sort of break on The Tories when in Coalition is just laughable
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jun 24, 2022 12:10:40 GMT
Calling someone racist (if they display those traits) is not name calling. Gammon is the same. You and your type are happy to call people like me "woke" and "snowflake". Sadly for you I wear those insults as a badge of honour. One example Not even an example. What is your problem?
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jun 24, 2022 12:11:32 GMT
If you wish to believe the Moon is made of Green Cheese that's entirely your prerogative The original IOPC investigation was hampered because emails and phone records were deleted Now Jennifer has provided documentary evidence no such impediment exists In the short term it won't matter as his own party will turf him out and he will leave in disgrace and that with be his legacy and not the one he craves Again very interesting, now how about you acknowledge the comments on the imaginary 2nd IOPC you suddenly seem less keen to mention. You are very quiet today mate. Something happened?
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Post by partickpotter on Jun 24, 2022 12:19:59 GMT
I'd so love for this to be true but (sadly) I don't think they are the same person (look at the nose) but the resemblance is uncanny. It doesn’t need to be true for Fuddy to post something.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jun 24, 2022 12:21:21 GMT
I'd so love for this to be true but (sadly) I don't think they are the same person (look at the nose) but the resemblance is uncanny. It doesn’t need to be true for Fuddy to post something. Brass neck klaxon.
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Post by wannabee on Jun 24, 2022 12:26:39 GMT
Don't put it past Johnson to call a snap election before this year is out. Interesting point. It is all about him, as we know, so why would he care if the entire lot got kicked out if he went too? I can't see it though. I think the men in grey suits would prevent him from doing so, line up potential successors and force his resignation. A successful election result in 2024 is much more likely having installed a new PM and Cabinet in a year or so, than under Johnson currently. Given the way it usually works, a lot of Tory inclined voters would simply swing back behind a new team at the top: they loved Cameron, then hated him when he stood for Remain; wanted May, then hated her because of the Brexit impasse; they loved Boris but now think he's a lying incompetent charlatan. Rinse and repeat basically. I think if he thought he could win he'd do it If not sure his ego wouldn't allow him Also Boris's extravagant lifestyle will need continuous feeding and he will be dependent on handouts when he leaves office If he fucks the Party he wouldn't be forgiven
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jun 24, 2022 12:37:39 GMT
Interesting point. It is all about him, as we know, so why would he care if the entire lot got kicked out if he went too? I can't see it though. I think the men in grey suits would prevent him from doing so, line up potential successors and force his resignation. A successful election result in 2024 is much more likely having installed a new PM and Cabinet in a year or so, than under Johnson currently. Given the way it usually works, a lot of Tory inclined voters would simply swing back behind a new team at the top: they loved Cameron, then hated him when he stood for Remain; wanted May, then hated her because of the Brexit impasse; they loved Boris but now think he's a lying incompetent charlatan. Rinse and repeat basically. I think if he thought he could win he'd do it If not sure his ego wouldn't allow him Also Boris's extravagant lifestyle will need continuous feeding and he will be dependent on handouts when he leaves office If he fucks the Party he wouldn't be forgiven Hmmm, I wonder what he'd do if turfed out of office in the next year or so? Seek a position in the Lords, you'd assume, or maybe take the Portillo approach and get into light entertainment, which is really where he belongs, as the nation's favourite harmless upper class bumbling buffoon. And, just as interestingly, what would Carrie do as soon as she realises she's not going to spend ten years in Downing St hobnobbing with all and sundry and in a position to put forward all her pet projects? Instead, she finds herself lumbered with an out of shape, out of office, deadweight. That relationship would probably be best measured in months, rather than years.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jun 24, 2022 12:50:02 GMT
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jun 24, 2022 13:02:04 GMT
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jun 24, 2022 13:09:10 GMT
I suspect he might garner some support from the membership, although that would need to conveniently overlook how he chucked the towel in when DexEU minister because he couldn't hack it and was forever under-prepared...heaven help us.
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Post by yeokel on Jun 24, 2022 13:16:01 GMT
Let’s hope they are right. Even Starmer might be able to scrape a victory together, up against Davis. Although that is said with the cliche “ be careful what you wish for“ at the forefront of my mind.
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Post by wannabee on Jun 24, 2022 13:40:40 GMT
I'd so love for this to be true but (sadly) I don't think they are the same person (look at the nose) but the resemblance is uncanny. They say girls eventually look like their mother Can't see Boris not known for his Fidelity hanging around too long
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Post by wannabee on Jun 24, 2022 14:01:34 GMT
With old Frosty the Whisky Salesman's supreme confidence in his own Stupidity, its hard to imagine how he screwed up the Brexit negotiations
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Jun 24, 2022 14:30:51 GMT
With old Frosty the Whisky Salesman's supreme confidence in his own Stupidity, its hard to imagine how he screwed up the Brexit negotiations Frosty has also said: "(We need) a real debate about everything that Europe offers,I would add the Single Market and single trade policy. Although estimates vary about how much wealth the single market generates for the UK, since we joined it’s probably in the order of five, six, seven, eight per cent uplift to GDP. For someone on an average salary, that’s about £1,500 pounds a year. Most people think that’s worth having.” Logically therefore - Leaving has cost us "five, six, seven, eight percent of GDP" Which if he truly believes that then surely only a Fuckwitt would want out. However rather like his erstwhile boss I doubt Frosty believes in anything other than raising his own profile.
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