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Post by JoeinOz on Oct 9, 2017 10:59:00 GMT
We've now qualified for six consecutive World Cups which is the longest England have ever done.
When you think African champions Cameroon haven't made it and a nation if recent stature like Holland are unlikely to it shows that, despite everything it could be worse.
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Post by scfcwebby on Oct 9, 2017 11:02:17 GMT
We've now qualified for six consecutive World Cups which is the longest England have ever done. When you think African champions Cameroon haven't made it and a nation if recent stature like Holland are unlikely to it shows that, despite everything it could be worse. Thank god for an embarrassingly easy group...
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Post by JoeinOz on Oct 9, 2017 11:07:28 GMT
We've now qualified for six consecutive World Cups which is the longest England have ever done. When you think African champions Cameroon haven't made it and a nation if recent stature like Holland are unlikely to it shows that, despite everything it could be worse. Thank god for an embarrassingly easy group... Don't forget in that time we faced Italy to get to 1998 and Germany to get to 2002 and won the group both times. For 2010 we faced a a very good Croatia side but when we thrashed them 4-1 someone on here referred to them as a pub team! Croatia a pub team!
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Post by iglugluk on Oct 9, 2017 11:07:55 GMT
Better get working on that dodgy defence.
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Post by jimmygscfc on Oct 9, 2017 11:12:39 GMT
We've now qualified for six consecutive World Cups which is the longest England have ever done. When you think African champions Cameroon haven't made it and a nation if recent stature like Holland are unlikely to it shows that, despite everything it could be worse. Yeah, let's celebrate the fact that a midfielder with four Premiership starts to his name can take his place in central midfield alongside the staggering talent that is Jordan Henderson. It just goes to show how badly off we are in midfield at the moment. Will someone like Danny Drinkwater even get enough games at Chelsea to push for a place? Can Ross Barkley add discipline to ability and give us an option? Will Lallana come straight back in? Personally, this three at the back set up with England doesn't work for me, and to play it against Lithuania, who had a solitary striker, meant the three centre backs had far too much of the ball and just knocked it around to each other. So bloody boring.
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Post by JoeinOz on Oct 9, 2017 11:15:29 GMT
We've now qualified for six consecutive World Cups which is the longest England have ever done. When you think African champions Cameroon haven't made it and a nation if recent stature like Holland are unlikely to it shows that, despite everything it could be worse. Yeah, let's celebrate the fact that a midfielder with four Premiership starts to his name can take his place in central midfield alongside the staggering talent that is Jordan Henderson. It just goes to show how badly off we are in midfield at the moment. Will someone like Danny Drinkwater even get enough games at Chelsea to push for a place? Can Ross Barkley add discipline to ability and give us an option? Will Lallana come straight back in? Personally, this three at the back set up with England doesn't work for me, and to play it against Lithuania, who had a solitary striker, meant the three centre backs had far too much of the ball and just knocked it around to each other. So bloody boring. OK all those ongoing issues but we do have a level of consistency. When we get there we shit ourselves but at least we are in it to shit ourselves.
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Post by Davef on Oct 9, 2017 11:20:25 GMT
We did well to qualify ahead of Italy and Germany in 1998 and 2002, but since then we've been pretty fortunate with our qualifying groups.
There are several groups for this qualifying campaign that we wouldn't have topped in a month of Sundays; Holland's for starters. And when you consider that Spain and Italy were drawn together (and Holland were included in a group with France having reached the Semi Finals in Brazil) I think we can count ourselves very fortunate indeed.
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Post by lordb on Oct 9, 2017 11:22:57 GMT
Better get working on that dodgy defence. Yesterdays game was another drab non event however I found Southgates comments interesting, he intimated he intended to go 4231 for the qualifiers but will go 5 at the back ( as he did yesterday) from now on with the tournament in my mind. We have a decent keeper (if he selects him over Hart) but we don't have any top drawer centre backs & all our full back options want to get forward (imho in Walker & Rose we have two potent wingbacks) so playing an extra defender with a holding midfielder (maybe two) is the way to go.
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Post by JoeinOz on Oct 9, 2017 11:28:34 GMT
We did well to qualify ahead of Italy and Germany in 1998 and 2002, but since then we've been pretty fortunate with our qualifying groups. There are several groups for this qualifying campaign that we wouldn't have topped in a month of Sundays; Holland's for starters. And when you consider that Spain and Italy were drawn together (and Holland were included in a group with France having reached the Semi Finals in Brazil) I think we can count ourselves very fortunate indeed. I reckon the easiest qualifying draw we ever had was for 2008 and er.....
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Oct 9, 2017 11:33:00 GMT
At least now we're consistent in the transition from qualification to actual tournament play.
In the 2000s (2008 aside) we'd romp home in Qualifying and then play like garbage at the tournament. It's far less infuriating this way, at least you know we're gonna be shit.
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Post by JoeinOz on Oct 9, 2017 11:38:40 GMT
At least now we're consistent in the transition from qualification to actual tournament play. In the 2000s (2008 aside) we'd romp home in Qualifying and then play like garbage at the tournament. It's far less infuriating this way, at least you know we're gonna be shit. One thing we should be grateful for!
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Oct 9, 2017 11:39:48 GMT
England look a bit dull because we don't have great passers in midfield. We will always struggle to break down any well organised defensive minded team, but that's the hardest thing in football and what defines the really great teams.
Southgate's best hope must be to try to get out of the group by hook or by crook, then let the better teams have the ball and try to play on the counter.
With the pace of Rashford and Stirling, Ali and Lallana's energy and Kane's finishing ability, we might be dangerous on the break if we can keep it tight. If we have to chase games we'll be in trouble.
On that basis, I can see why Chris Waddle suggests playing a centre mid who can knock it long and early and hit the runners. His calls for Drinkwater or Shelvey make sense in that system.
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Post by jimmygscfc on Oct 9, 2017 11:42:36 GMT
Better get working on that dodgy defence. Yesterdays game was another drab non event however I found Southgates comments interesting, he intimated he intended to go 4231 for the qualifiers but will go 5 at the back ( as he did yesterday) from now on with the tournament in my mind. We have a decent keeper (if he selects him over Hart) but we don't have any top drawer centre backs & all our full back options want to get forward (imho in Walker & Rose we have two potent wingbacks) so playing an extra defender with a holding midfielder (maybe two) is the way to go. No...just play Dier in front of the back four and then Henderson (unfortunately) and Lallana. Play Ali Behind Kane and Rashford and a back four of Walker, Stones, Jones and Rose. That's just about our best XI in my opinion. If we do go three at the back I'd make Dier one of them but can't see that happening.
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Oct 9, 2017 11:51:03 GMT
At least now we're consistent in the transition from qualification to actual tournament play. In the 2000s (2008 aside) we'd romp home in Qualifying and then play like garbage at the tournament. It's far less infuriating this way, at least you know we're gonna be shit. One thing we should be grateful for! 2010 is the one that really hits home for me, we smashed Croatia twice (the same Croatia who had humiliated us home and away 18 months prior) had a exceptionally strong squad and we're a goal up in 10 minutes in the first game and were actually playing some half decent stuff. Cue Rob Green and then the Podolski masterclass. The sad thing is, that's as far as we've got in a tournament since!
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Post by JoeinOz on Oct 9, 2017 11:54:39 GMT
One thing we should be grateful for! 2010 is the one that really hits home for me, we smashed Croatia twice (the same Croatia who had humiliated us home and away 18 months prior) had a exceptionally strong squad and we're a goal up in 10 minutes in the first game and were actually playing some half decent stuff. Cue Rob Green and then the Podolski masterclass. The sad thing is, that's as far as we've got in a tournament since! Rob Green. Ooooh. An even worse bodge up than Hart's v Iceland.
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Post by woodstein on Oct 9, 2017 12:01:21 GMT
Let's hope for Russia is better for us. Great to see the jocks fail again too!
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Post by GoBoks on Oct 9, 2017 12:09:24 GMT
Let's hope for Russia is better for us. Great to see the jocks fail again too! Why? Do you have a personal bone to pick with Scotland, or is it just "Ha Ha, look how they messed up, that proves we are a good team?" (like Stokies and Port Vale). Why can't we be happy if all teams from UK do well? Or all teams from greater Stoke area do well?
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Post by canadianmoose on Oct 9, 2017 12:24:46 GMT
Let's hope for Russia is better for us. Great to see the jocks fail again too! Why? Do you have a personal bone to pick with Scotland, or is it just "Ha Ha, look how they messed up, that proves we are a good team?" (like Stokies and Port Vale). Why can't we be happy if all teams from UK do well? Or all teams from greater Stoke area do well? That’s an easy answer. Because the Scots, Welsh and Irish despise England and will support ANYONE who they play against.
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Post by GrahamHyde on Oct 9, 2017 12:29:16 GMT
I see us around a similar standard to Poland and Switzerland at the moment, that kind of quality.
We're generally better than most teams in the world, but never good enough to compete with the elite nations when it comes to tournament football.
We also don't have anyone, bar the arguable exception of Harry Kane, who can create something out of nothing a la Messi, Suarez, Ronaldo, Neymar, Bale etc.
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Post by GrahamHyde on Oct 9, 2017 12:36:16 GMT
We did well to qualify ahead of Italy and Germany in 1998 and 2002, but since then we've been pretty fortunate with our qualifying groups. There are several groups for this qualifying campaign that we wouldn't have topped in a month of Sundays; Holland's for starters. And when you consider that Spain and Italy were drawn together (and Holland were included in a group with France having reached the Semi Finals in Brazil) I think we can count ourselves very fortunate indeed. Our group is certainly the easiest of the lot when you consider that Scotland almost got through to the play-offs. As much as I want us to make it the World Cup, I do find that aspect frustrating - we just aren't tested adequately enough. It's plain to see we're nowhere near good enough to get any further than the Last 16 this time around, unless there's a drastic improvement in either quality (unlikely) or application / work ethic (more likely, but doubtful) between now and then. It takes a manager to recognise the above and pick players to a system, rather than the other way around.
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Post by JoeinOz on Oct 9, 2017 12:39:41 GMT
I see us around a similar standard to Poland and Switzerland at the moment, that kind of quality. We're generally better than most teams in the world, but never good enough to compete with the elite nations when it comes to tournament football. We also don't have anyone, bar the arguable exception of Harry Kane, who can create something out of nothing a la Messi, Suarez, Ronaldo, Neymar, Bale etc. Kane can. But can Kane in June? 2018 will be a big year for young Harry. I haven't joined in the wankfest because he still has a lot to prove at the highest level.
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Post by GrahamHyde on Oct 9, 2017 12:45:51 GMT
I see us around a similar standard to Poland and Switzerland at the moment, that kind of quality. We're generally better than most teams in the world, but never good enough to compete with the elite nations when it comes to tournament football. We also don't have anyone, bar the arguable exception of Harry Kane, who can create something out of nothing a la Messi, Suarez, Ronaldo, Neymar, Bale etc. Kane can. But can Kane in June? 2018 will be a big year for young Harry. I haven't joined in the wankfest because he still has a lot to prove at the highest level. That is what frustrates me most about English players in general, the lack of hunger, desire and determination to become truly world class. Kane may be different, he seems more in the Shearer / Rooney mould and has had to graft, but many of them get way too much too soon and there's just no incentive to grow and develop thereafter. They're stuck in the safety of their Premier League bubble, often not even playing football yet still getting paid extortionate amounts.
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Post by westgatelakes on Oct 9, 2017 12:47:40 GMT
I Know it won`t happen but Burnley`s 2 current centre backs plus their former one at Everton would surely make a sound back 3 with the distinct advantage of knowing each other`s game ?
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Post by JoeinOz on Oct 9, 2017 12:50:44 GMT
Kane can. But can Kane in June? 2018 will be a big year for young Harry. I haven't joined in the wankfest because he still has a lot to prove at the highest level. That is what frustrates me most about English players in general, the lack of hunger, desire and determination to become truly world class. Kane may be different, he seems more in the Shearer / Rooney mould and has had to graft, but many of them get way too much too soon and there's just no incentive to grow and develop thereafter. They're stuck in the safety of their Premier League bubble, often not even playing football yet still getting paid extortionate amounts. Wilshere had the chance to play at Milan for a season but chose Bournemouth because it's closer to home. A season at the legendary iconic San Siro. Thick. As. Fuck.
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Post by lordb on Oct 9, 2017 13:18:27 GMT
England look a bit dull because we don't have great passers in midfield. We will always struggle to break down any well organised defensive minded team, but that's the hardest thing in football and what defines the really great teams. Southgate's best hope must be to try to get out of the group by hook or by crook, then let the better teams have the ball and try to play on the counter. With the pace of Rashford and Stirling, Ali and Lallana's energy and Kane's finishing ability, we might be dangerous on the break if we can keep it tight. If we have to chase games we'll be in trouble. On that basis, I can see why Chris Waddle suggests playing a centre mid who can knock it long and early and hit the runners. His calls for Drinkwater or Shelvey make sense in that system. If we could defend well enough then pacy counterattack + Kane (our one genuine star) sounds great. We absolutely cannot defend well with four at the back sadly. Let's see if five do better.
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Post by woodstein on Oct 9, 2017 14:07:59 GMT
Why? Do you have a personal bone to pick with Scotland, or is it just "Ha Ha, look how they messed up, that proves we are a good team?" (like Stokies and Port Vale). Why can't we be happy if all teams from UK do well? Or all teams from greater Stoke area do well? That’s an easy answer. Because the Scots, Welsh and Irish despise England and will support ANYONE who they play against. Exactly Canadagoose. I follow the Northern Irish though, great performances over last year or so.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Oct 9, 2017 15:15:54 GMT
England look a bit dull because we don't have great passers in midfield. We will always struggle to break down any well organised defensive minded team, but that's the hardest thing in football and what defines the really great teams. Southgate's best hope must be to try to get out of the group by hook or by crook, then let the better teams have the ball and try to play on the counter. With the pace of Rashford and Stirling, Ali and Lallana's energy and Kane's finishing ability, we might be dangerous on the break if we can keep it tight. If we have to chase games we'll be in trouble. On that basis, I can see why Chris Waddle suggests playing a centre mid who can knock it long and early and hit the runners. His calls for Drinkwater or Shelvey make sense in that system. If we could defend well enough then pacy counterattack + Kane (our one genuine star) sounds great. We absolutely cannot defend well with four at the back sadly. Let's see if five do better. I kind of agree with you there. Our best full backs seem better at bombing forwards than defending. They would need to be more tactically and positionally disciplined. But... if we play a passing CB (say an in form Stones) with a ball winner (maybe a rejuvenated Jones), perhaps with Dier in front, could it work? If Stones comes out and carries the ball, Dier drops back into the 4. Henderson's position is looking shaky and it would be interesting to see how Drinkwater does there. His long passing might suit our players better. How does this look? Butland Walker Jones Stones Bertrand/Rose Drinkwater Dier Stirling/Lallana Ali Rashford Kane
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Post by SamB_SCFC on Oct 9, 2017 16:27:57 GMT
We did well to qualify ahead of Italy and Germany in 1998 and 2002, but since then we've been pretty fortunate with our qualifying groups. There are several groups for this qualifying campaign that we wouldn't have topped in a month of Sundays; Holland's for starters. And when you consider that Spain and Italy were drawn together (and Holland were included in a group with France having reached the Semi Finals in Brazil) I think we can count ourselves very fortunate indeed. I reckon the easiest qualifying draw we ever had was for 2008 and er..... Although I'm not one to defend England and Steve McLaren, calling the 2008 group easy is ridiculous. It contained Croatia and Russia who were both decent teams at that time and went on to reach the semi finals in Euro 2008. We should definitely have qualified considering how strong our squad was back then but it was by no means an easy group. The last 2 or 3 qualifying groups we've played in have been far far easier.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Oct 9, 2017 16:29:30 GMT
I reckon the easiest qualifying draw we ever had was for 2008 and er..... Although I'm not one to defend England and Steve McLaren, calling the 2008 group easy is ridiculous. It contained Croatia and Russia who were both decent teams at that time and went on to reach the semi finals in Euro 2008. We should definitely have qualified considering how strong our squad was back then but it was by no means an easy group. The last 2 or 3 qualifying groups we've played in have been far far easier. We drew 0-0 at home with Macedonia.
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Post by metalhead on Oct 9, 2017 16:44:16 GMT
We've now qualified for six consecutive World Cups which is the longest England have ever done. When you think African champions Cameroon haven't made it and a nation if recent stature like Holland are unlikely to it shows that, despite everything it could be worse. Yeah great, we battered the mighty Slovenia, and thrashed the mighty Lithuania.... Oh wait, actually we didn't. Nowadays, we're the Ireland of international football. Turn up for a laugh and to play the part. Fuck off a week or two in when the real teams start to play.
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