|
|
Post by manmarking on Sept 27, 2017 11:39:11 GMT
Fraise is always right  With all due respect, fraise, you didn't even know who Jeremy Corbyn was until the Express told you what to think about him when he descended from the backbenches two years ago  |
|
|
|
Post by robstokie on Sept 27, 2017 13:19:21 GMT
Corbyn weeding them out? They must not be liberal enough for the old Commie cretin!! What on earth has liberalism got to do with communism then? Please explain. It's becoming clear to me that quite a few posters on this board really don't fully understand the various political systems they are attempting to discuss. A bit like Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage. Unless they are militantly pro-palestine, anti-british and anti-trident - they're not left wing enough for him. Liberal was a typo on my phone (predictive text eh?) Still, I stand by the point that Corbyn and his people (such as momentum) will weed out those who don't adhere to his rigid far-left platform as traitors... |
|
|
|
Post by spiler on Sept 27, 2017 13:25:30 GMT
What on earth has liberalism got to do with communism then? Please explain. It's becoming clear to me that quite a few posters on this board really don't fully understand the various political systems they are attempting to discuss. A bit like Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage. Unless they are militantly pro-palestine, anti-british and anti-trident - they're not left wing enough for him. Liberal was a typo on my phone (predictive text eh?) Still, I stand by the point that Corbyn and his people (such as momentum) will weed out those who don't adhere to his rigid far-left platform as traitors... I don't see Corbyn as far left. I think the party has to get real socialists involved, not just the career politicians that hogged the Tory middle ground under Blair's New Labour. You don't need to fear Corbyn, he's a genuinely decent parliamentatrian. |
|
|
|
Post by robstokie on Sept 27, 2017 13:38:52 GMT
Unless they are militantly pro-palestine, anti-british and anti-trident - they're not left wing enough for him. Liberal was a typo on my phone (predictive text eh?) Still, I stand by the point that Corbyn and his people (such as momentum) will weed out those who don't adhere to his rigid far-left platform as traitors... I don't see Corbyn as far left. I think the party has to get real socialists involved, not just the career politicians that hogged the Tory middle ground under Blair's New Labour. You don't need to fear Corbyn, he's a genuinely decent parliamentatrian. I'm not disputing that Corbyn might be a nice bloke (he's a relic from a bygone era, for me he's still miles out of touch with average joe and his policies are naive at best, but he couldn't hurt a fly in my opinion). It's the people around him - the militant members of momentum who won't take no for an answer and will try to bully opposing factions into submission and the chancers in the union's who will have him by the short and curlies. And that's before we remember who his prospective chancellor is - John McDonnell - a self confessed Marxist who has encouraged and condoned harrassment and violence by his foot soldiers against those who stand against him. I don't know about anyone else, but I get the feeling that he could easily bully Corbyn into pushing through legislation that even the most committed Corbyn supporter would think is beyond the pale. |
|
|
|
Post by spiler on Sept 27, 2017 13:44:08 GMT
I don't see Corbyn as far left. I think the party has to get real socialists involved, not just the career politicians that hogged the Tory middle ground under Blair's New Labour. You don't need to fear Corbyn, he's a genuinely decent parliamentatrian. I'm not disputing that Corbyn might be a nice bloke (he's a relic from a bygone era, for me he's still miles out of touch with average joe and his policies are naive at best, but he couldn't hurt a fly in my opinion). It's the people around him - the militant members of momentum who won't take no for an answer and will try to bully opposing factions into submission and the chancers in the union's who will have him by the short and curlies. And that's before we remember who his prospective chancellor is - John McDonnell - a self confessed Marxist who has encouraged and condoned harrassment and violence by his foot soldiers against those who stand against him. I don't know about anyone else, but I get the feeling that he could easily bully Corbyn into pushing through legislation that even the most committed Corbyn supporter would think is beyond the pale. I suppose that's a personal interpretation Rob. I'm more relaxed about it, but I get your point, again well made. I think there's a false cross-correlation emerging between Militant and Momentum. They are entirely separate entities, even if they do both begin with an "M". Get behind Labour and the UK. |
|
|
|
Post by robstokie on Sept 27, 2017 14:17:44 GMT
I'm not disputing that Corbyn might be a nice bloke (he's a relic from a bygone era, for me he's still miles out of touch with average joe and his policies are naive at best, but he couldn't hurt a fly in my opinion). It's the people around him - the militant members of momentum who won't take no for an answer and will try to bully opposing factions into submission and the chancers in the union's who will have him by the short and curlies. And that's before we remember who his prospective chancellor is - John McDonnell - a self confessed Marxist who has encouraged and condoned harrassment and violence by his foot soldiers against those who stand against him. I don't know about anyone else, but I get the feeling that he could easily bully Corbyn into pushing through legislation that even the most committed Corbyn supporter would think is beyond the pale. I suppose that's a personal interpretation Rob. I'm more relaxed about it, but I get your point, again well made. I think there's a false cross-correlation emerging between Militant and Momentum. They are entirely separate entities, even if they do both begin with an "M". Get behind Labour and the UK. I can't vote for Labour - I moved to Wales when I was 9 - After Labour got elected and formed a Welsh (and Scottish) parliament. During the time I've been here, Labour have run Wales consecutively and have overseen living standards, education and job opportunities for people fall through the floor this side of the border - whilst things have started to get better (more jobs and apprenticeships etc.) back in England. What makes it worse is that the Welsh are so anti-tory, it has allowed Labour to basically get away with it. All Labour have to do is 'blame the tories', even when things like the Labour run Wales is miles behind the Tory run England for things such as waiting times for appointments and drug availability on the NHS, business/job creation and tackling anti-social behaviour. If you want to see what Labour has done, visit any town in the south Wales valleys - they have had the best part 20 years to reinvigorate and bring business to these areas which were harmed most by the loss of industry (and let's not forget the Labour government of the 70s oversaw the closure of nearly twice as many mines as Thatcher did in the 80s by the way as well as being held to ransom by union's - 3 day week etc.) but, if anything, unemployment and quality of life is even worse there than it was then. Socialism has failed in Wales - WHY would anyone want even more of it at a radical level? For me, there's only one realistic choice if we want a Britain that looks after its own, will be open for business to come and create the jobs and wealth that the people want and need and will remain a key player in WORLD trade (we can hope we will have a clean break from the EU). Vote Tory. |
|
|
|
Post by spiler on Sept 27, 2017 14:25:00 GMT
I suppose that's a personal interpretation Rob. I'm more relaxed about it, but I get your point, again well made. I think there's a false cross-correlation emerging between Militant and Momentum. They are entirely separate entities, even if they do both begin with an "M". Get behind Labour and the UK. I can't vote for Labour - I moved to Wales when I was 9 - After Labour got elected and formed a Welsh (and Scottish) parliament. During the time I've been here, Labour have run Wales consecutively and have overseen living standards, education and job opportunities for people fall through the floor this side of the border - whilst things have started to get better (more jobs and apprenticeships etc.) back in England. What makes it worse is that the Welsh are so anti-tory, it has allowed Labour to basically get away with it. All Labour have to do is 'blame the tories', even when things like the Labour run Wales is miles behind the Tory run England for things such as waiting times for appointments and drug availability on the NHS, business/job creation and tackling anti-social behaviour. If you want to see what Labour has done, visit any town in the south Wales valleys - they have had the best part 20 years to reinvigorate and bring business to these areas which were harmed most by the loss of industry (and let's not forget the Labour government of the 70s oversaw the closure of nearly twice as many mines as Thatcher did in the 80s by the way as well as being held to ransom by union's - 3 day week etc.) but, if anything, unemployment and quality of life is even worse there than it was then. Socialism has failed in Wales - WHY would anyone want even more of it at a radical level? For me, there's only one realistic choice if we want a Britain that looks after its own, will be open for business to come and create the jobs and wealth that the people want and need and will remain a key player in WORLD trade (we can hope we will have a clean break from the EU). Vote Tory. With all the chaos in their ranks just now, how can you be sure of which flavour of Tory you're actually voting for? Nice post by the way.  |
|
|
|
Post by robstokie on Sept 27, 2017 14:43:12 GMT
I can't vote for Labour - I moved to Wales when I was 9 - After Labour got elected and formed a Welsh (and Scottish) parliament. During the time I've been here, Labour have run Wales consecutively and have overseen living standards, education and job opportunities for people fall through the floor this side of the border - whilst things have started to get better (more jobs and apprenticeships etc.) back in England. What makes it worse is that the Welsh are so anti-tory, it has allowed Labour to basically get away with it. All Labour have to do is 'blame the tories', even when things like the Labour run Wales is miles behind the Tory run England for things such as waiting times for appointments and drug availability on the NHS, business/job creation and tackling anti-social behaviour. If you want to see what Labour has done, visit any town in the south Wales valleys - they have had the best part 20 years to reinvigorate and bring business to these areas which were harmed most by the loss of industry (and let's not forget the Labour government of the 70s oversaw the closure of nearly twice as many mines as Thatcher did in the 80s by the way as well as being held to ransom by union's - 3 day week etc.) but, if anything, unemployment and quality of life is even worse there than it was then. Socialism has failed in Wales - WHY would anyone want even more of it at a radical level? For me, there's only one realistic choice if we want a Britain that looks after its own, will be open for business to come and create the jobs and wealth that the people want and need and will remain a key player in WORLD trade (we can hope we will have a clean break from the EU). Vote Tory. With all the chaos in their ranks just now, how can you be sure of which flavour of Tory you're actually voting for? Nice post by the way. Thanks. I think we can all agree that Boris and Rees-Mogg are just as divisive and outlying with the same potential for a cult following as Corbyn has. I would personally like to see someone who supports a hard brexit but is also going to put in hard miles negotiating with the world for business and build a newly independent Britain on a pro-business and personal freedom platform whilst keeping immigration down to what we actually need, lowering taxation for all and stripping back on overinflated public sector jobs (such as the civil service) and the welfare state which currently rewards the feckless, irresponsible and idle. To that end, I would perhaps plump for David 'Dicky' Davis - a working class boy done good through the grammar system that rewarded graft and application, very pro-brexit and one of the few politicians from ANY party who knows how the other half live and what they really want - Ken Clarke might have been a good candidate bar his pro EU credentials and age of course. |
|
|
|
Post by spiler on Sept 27, 2017 14:52:35 GMT
With all the chaos in their ranks just now, how can you be sure of which flavour of Tory you're actually voting for? Nice post by the way. Thanks. I think we can all agree that Boris and Rees-Mogg are just as divisive and outlying with the same potential for a cult following as Corbyn has. I would personally like to see someone who supports a hard brexit but is also going to put in hard miles negotiating with the world for business and build a newly independent Britain on a pro-business and personal freedom platform whilst keeping immigration down to what we actually need, lowering taxation for all and stripping back on overinflated public sector jobs (such as the civil service) and the welfare state which currently rewards the feckless, irresponsible and idle. To that end, I would perhaps plump for David 'Dicky' Davis - a working class boy done good through the grammar system that rewarded graft and application, very pro-brexit and one of the few politicians from ANY party who knows how the other half live and what they really want - Ken Clarke might have been a good candidate bar his pro EU credentials and age of course. I must admit, David Davis is the best, most humane and beleivable Tory politician by a mile. Rob, I think Corbyn is dragging British politics back toward the left, and it's been needed after Farage & Co and the animated politics of division we have endured over the last few years. There are a few too many loon's in the Tory ranks, and also Labour, but I honestly think that David Davis is a decent man and under certain circumstances would get my grudging vote. I'm a Labour man in case you were unsure. Nice talking with you. |
|
|
|
Post by robstokie on Sept 27, 2017 15:08:40 GMT
Thanks. I think we can all agree that Boris and Rees-Mogg are just as divisive and outlying with the same potential for a cult following as Corbyn has. I would personally like to see someone who supports a hard brexit but is also going to put in hard miles negotiating with the world for business and build a newly independent Britain on a pro-business and personal freedom platform whilst keeping immigration down to what we actually need, lowering taxation for all and stripping back on overinflated public sector jobs (such as the civil service) and the welfare state which currently rewards the feckless, irresponsible and idle. To that end, I would perhaps plump for David 'Dicky' Davis - a working class boy done good through the grammar system that rewarded graft and application, very pro-brexit and one of the few politicians from ANY party who knows how the other half live and what they really want - Ken Clarke might have been a good candidate bar his pro EU credentials and age of course. I must admit, David Davis is the best, most humane and beleivable Tory politician by a mile. Rob, I think Corbyn is dragging British politics back toward the left, and it's been needed after Farage & Co and the animated politics of division we have endured over the last few years. There are a few too many loon's in the Tory ranks, and also Labour, but I honestly think that David Davis is a decent man and under certain circumstances would get my grudging vote. I'm a Labour man in case you were unsure. Nice talking with you. I had gathered you were of that political persuasion I think that UK politics has developed a pendulum effect over the last few years, mainly through disconnect from large factions (UKIP appealed to one untapped faction of the vote, as does Corbyn to another). I'm praying to God Corbyn doesn't get in, but it feels inevitable now (and within the next year in my opinion). Anyhow, pleasure speaking mate. Nice to see that we could have a reasoned debate without it turning into a slanging match despite our contrasting viewpoints |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2017 17:23:47 GMT
Fraise is always right With all due respect, fraise, you didn't even know who Jeremy Corbyn was until the Express told you what to think about him when he descended from the backbenches two years ago He's my dad |
|
|
|
Post by The Drunken Communist on Sept 29, 2017 15:32:53 GMT
|
|
