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Post by Gods on Jul 4, 2017 22:17:50 GMT
Okay this is going to blow my liberal credentials out of the water and probably get me marked down as some kind of heartless, rabid hardliner but here goes anyway! They just had one fella on the BBC News quite frankly belly-aching about the first 2 sets of alternative accommodation that had been offered to him which he had turned down insisting that he needed instead a '2 or 3 bedroom apartment in the Kensington postcode on the 2nd or 3rd floor of a small block with a lift and air conditioning', if they had given him 10 more seconds he would have added that he needed a nubile young maid to sensually suck him off each morning before he struggles out of bed to face the day. I mean seriously, it's questionable whether we owed him a pad in Kensington before the fire but if you put that to one side you are looking at 10 grand a week minimum for the kind of improved setup he is looking for in that postcode, and someone has to pay for that, I say someone, I mean you and I, the taxpayer. Some of these folks are trying it on aren't they? There has been a terrible and tragic accident but some of the residents seem to be strutting around like they just won the lottery. Someone needs to tell some of these folks where to get off. Fire away, I can take it  |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2017 22:36:52 GMT
Hmm just wondering about how much compensation they may be due for being nearly incinerated in a block of flats that may or may not have met fire safety regulations. Speculation of course.
They may well be able to afford that level of dwelling and given what they have been through they probably deserve it too.
Main problem is having been trapped in a block of flats on fire would any of us EVER risk that situation again? That said how many low rise buildings are available in the Kensington area that are not very expensive?
Call it Karma if you like, but I certainly think they deserve everything they get as nothing will ever take that memory away from them and nothing will ever compensate for their trauma or loss.
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Post by manmarking on Jul 4, 2017 22:38:06 GMT
Okay this is going to blow my liberal credentials out of the water and probably get me marked down as some kind of heartless, rabid hardliner but here goes anyway! They just had one fella on the BBC News quite frankly belly-aching about the first 2 sets of accommodation that had been offered to him which he had turned down insisting that he needed instead a '2 or 3 bedroom apartment in the Kensington postcode on the 2nd or 3rd floor of a small block with a lift and air conditioning', he only just stopped short of saying he needed a nubile young maid to firmly suck him off each morning before he struggles out of bed to face the day. I mean seriously, you are looking at 10 grand a week minimum for that sort of setup in Kensington, and someone has to pay for that, I say someone, I mean you and I, the taxpayer. Some of these folks are trying it on aren't they? There has been a terrible and tragic accident but some of the residents seem to be strutting around like they just won the lottery. Fire away, I can take it I agree to some extent yes. There'll have to be some give and take. However, it's worth bearing in mind that Kensington and Chelsea's savings account is at about £300m isn't it? And I can't speak for you but that certainly isn't my taxes as I've never so much as parked a car there. So I couldn't care less if they have to spend some of it  They can (and should) provide as close to like-for-like as possible, whatever that may be. It's their own silly fault if they decided not to spend enough of their fortune making their properties fire resistant. Such is the free market - that council took a gamble and lost  |
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Post by manmarking on Jul 4, 2017 22:39:54 GMT
Hmm just wondering about how much compensation they may be due for being nearly incinerated in a block of flats that may or may not have met fire safety regulations. Speculation of course. They may well be able to afford that level of dwelling and given what they have been through they probably deserve it too. Main problem is having been trapped in a block of flats on fire would any of us EVER risk that situation again? That said how many low rise buildings are available in the Kensington area that are not very expensive? Call it Karma if you like, but I certainly think they deserve everything they get as nothing will ever take that memory away from them and nothing will ever compensate for their trauma or loss. Good post. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2017 0:19:02 GMT
Tin Hat On.
It's no secret that a lot of the victims, and indeed survivors were sub lets that technically should not have been there, and there is an amnesty, quite rightly so, for these cases and no prosecution should be brought, however, I really hope that these survivors that are being re housed, again, rightly so, are the genuine ones and not the ones that had simply been living in over crowded cheap accommodation in the first place, and I hope that the tenants that have been given these swanky new apartments are under no doubt whatsoever that sub letting is absolutely prohibited.
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Post by wagsastokie on Jul 5, 2017 5:12:43 GMT
Tin Hat On. It's no secret that a lot of the victims, and indeed survivors were sub lets that technically should not have been there, and there is an amnesty, quite rightly so, for these cases and no prosecution should be brought, however, I really hope that these survivors that are being re housed, again, rightly so, are the genuine ones and not the ones that had simply been living in over crowded cheap accommodation in the first place, and I hope that the tenants that have been given these swanky new apartments are under no doubt whatsoever that sub letting is absolutely prohibited. I agree those that were living as sub lease should be re housed and not fear prosecution Those who allowed their flats to be sub let making many thousands in the process SHould also be rehoused as well At her majesty's pleasure |
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Post by Northy on Jul 5, 2017 6:49:55 GMT
they just had a guy on the bbc breakfast programme moaning that what they offered him was a mile away from his 10 year old daughters school, im sorry but with attitudes like that then its not going to be solved quickly, most people on here probably lived further away from their schools. all 139 affected residents have been offered alternative accomodation but only 9 have been taken up so far. Are they too fussy, are the hotels too nice, wheres that British spirit gone?
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Post by felonious on Jul 5, 2017 6:56:42 GMT
they just had a guy on the bbc breakfast programme moaning that what they offered him was a mile away from his 10 year old daughters school, im sorry but with attitudes like that then its not going to be solved quickly, most people on here probably lived further away from their schools. all 139 affected residents have been offered alternative accomodation but only 9 have been taken up so far. Are they too fussy, are the hotels too nice, wheres that British spirit gone? The British spirit? That's an interesting question. Is there a Smith or a Jones still living in London?  |
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Post by harryburrows on Jul 5, 2017 6:59:15 GMT
Putting aside the awful experience these folks went through they seem to have a huge sense of entitlement,
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Post by yeokel on Jul 5, 2017 7:28:55 GMT
They presumably had some sort of tennancy agreements?
And, presumably, those agreements had a clause in them detailing what would happen if their flat became uninhabitable, so that's what should be invoked (and presumably is being).
If they've been offered two or three alternative accomodations and declined them all they should simply be told that they are expecting the council to act outside of the agreement they have signed so they had better sling their hooks and make alternative arrangements.
A few minds might change.
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Post by redstriper on Jul 5, 2017 7:45:18 GMT
I doubt people bombed out of their homes during the blitz (similarly through no fault of their own) turned their noses up at any accommodation offered.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2017 8:06:48 GMT
I doubt people bombed out of their homes during the blitz (similarly through no fault of their own) turned their noses up at any accommodation offered. They were patriots.....different breed |
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Post by trickydicky73 on Jul 5, 2017 8:19:07 GMT
Putting aside the awful experience these folks went through they seem to have a huge sense of entitlement, Someone is bound to put a match to Hanley flats, soon. The waiting list for a council house is ridiculously long, in fairness. |
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Jul 5, 2017 8:43:46 GMT
The problem is there is no control on the 'anger'. Stirred by the media, stirred by the 'local resident' groups, political point scoring from the Left.
All 158 families have had housing assessments. 139 have had offers of accommodation, permanent or temporary, 14 have accepted.
One family offered a 2 bed in Westminster declined because they thought the rent might eventually be higher.
The guy who was crying on Vic Derbyshire's show the other day saying "we don't want money, we just want somewhere to call home" is the guy who refused an apartment 1 mile away. There are 64 properties for sale in Kensington for around 500K but only 14 are suitable. Many are just studio apartments. So the 300 million isn't much good. Plus the fact that if the Council have met their housing commitments then the 300 mill is not relevant.
Tenancy agreements should have some effect. Trauma and stress from the experience shouldn't be repaid in bricks and mortar. That's the wrong response.
The causation of the fire will eventually be known but it won't be the fault of taxpayers.
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Post by lancashirelad on Jul 5, 2017 9:00:46 GMT
I wonder how many properties are available in that area, also how many properties were offered to the 139 families. Ie has the same property been offered multiple times.
About keeping close to the community surely after the awful event most must realise they may have to move to a new neighbourhoods but hopefully close enough so they can still visit/see their community.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 5, 2017 9:07:34 GMT
Okay this is going to blow my liberal credentials out of the water and probably get me marked down as some kind of heartless, rabid hardliner but here goes anyway! They just had one fella on the BBC News quite frankly belly-aching about the first 2 sets of alternative accommodation that had been offered to him which he had turned down insisting that he needed instead a '2 or 3 bedroom apartment in the Kensington postcode on the 2nd or 3rd floor of a small block with a lift and air conditioning', if they had given him 10 more seconds he would have added that he needed a nubile young maid to sensually suck him off each morning before he struggles out of bed to face the day. I mean seriously, it's questionable whether we owed him a pad in Kensington in the first place but if you put that to one side you are looking at 10 grand a week minimum for the kind of improved setup he is looking for in that postcode, and someone has to pay for that, I say someone, I mean you and I, the taxpayer. Some of these folks are trying it on aren't they? There has been a terrible and tragic accident but some of the residents seem to be strutting around like they just won the lottery. Someone needs to tell some of these folks where to get off. Fire away, I can take it Much respect God's, honest post not tied to an agenda, just saying it how it is. |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 5, 2017 9:16:28 GMT
The taxpayer is funding landlords and employers not paying the going rate. As a country we are in debt, have a myriad of problems at home and yet give money away to other countries, in the form of foreign aid, many of which are ruled by millionaires. We have a housing problem and a cultural clash issue , yet still import people to make the problem worse.
It makes as much sense as having a £5000 credit card loan and giving the money away, when you are already in debt and struggling.
The failure of our politicians, of all colours, to deal with this will drive a resentful working class to take action, eventually.
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Post by salopstick on Jul 5, 2017 9:39:54 GMT
A very sorry case
Sub letting
Illegal immigrants
And people lying that they were in the fire to get free stuff
Doesn't take away from the fire but raises wider questions.
When I think the stuff I had to do to rent my house out these sub letters are getting away with loads
How many sub letters are taking advantage to get a new property
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Post by harryburrows on Jul 5, 2017 10:05:21 GMT
A very sorry case Sub letting Illegal immigrants And people lying that they were in the fire to get free stuff Doesn't take away from the fire but raises wider questions. When I think the stuff I had to do to rent my house out these sub letters are getting away with loads How many sub letters are taking advantage to get a new property This issue of subletting is well known in London. Can't believe the councils can't spot check all council tenants every few months |
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Post by wagsastokie on Jul 5, 2017 10:23:09 GMT
A very sorry case Sub letting Illegal immigrants And people lying that they were in the fire to get free stuff Doesn't take away from the fire but raises wider questions. When I think the stuff I had to do to rent my house out these sub letters are getting away with loads How many sub letters are taking advantage to get a new property This issue of subletting is well known in London. Can't believe the councils can't spot check all council tenants every few months I think the councils are well aware but turn a blind eye unless it involves housing benefit It saves them from having countless thousands of homeless people to deal with |
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Post by manmarking on Jul 5, 2017 11:08:28 GMT
Putting aside the awful experience these folks went through they seem to have a huge sense of entitlement, You're talking about the knitting club, I assume? |
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Post by rat on Jul 5, 2017 13:14:47 GMT
Putting aside the awful experience these folks went through they seem to have a huge sense of entitlement, I should think so as well , losing friends , family , possessions , their homes .... all for £2 per sqm of cladding . These people will feel huge entitlement , you can't really blame them for that . Would you want to live in above the third floor after surviving Grenfell ? I think this is the nub of the issue . |
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Post by rat on Jul 5, 2017 13:17:48 GMT
I'm not feeling an overwhelming sense of compassion on this thread ladies . These people have been to hell and back , and I don't think talk of locking people up is an appropriate response .  |
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Jul 5, 2017 13:22:41 GMT
Okay this is going to blow my liberal credentials out of the water I think quite the opposite Gods. It's your Liberal credentials that are the reason for your heckles rising. What's right is right and what's wrong is nobody's business. Your empathy is quite rightly with those in genuine need and your anger is against those that abuse the system. Absolutely correct. |
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Post by rat on Jul 5, 2017 13:44:27 GMT
Okay this is going to blow my liberal credentials out of the water I think quite the opposite Gods. It's your Liberal credentials that are the reason for your heckles rising. What's right is right and what's wrong is nobody's business. Your empathy is quite rightly with those in genuine need and your anger is against those that abuse the system. Absolutely correct. a ringing endorsement from Todger ...... a bit like receiving a 'like' from Crapslinger |
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Post by essexstokey on Jul 5, 2017 13:52:53 GMT
A very sorry case Sub letting Illegal immigrants And people lying that they were in the fire to get free stuff Doesn't take away from the fire but raises wider questions. When I think the stuff I had to do to rent my house out these sub letters are getting away with loads How many sub letters are taking advantage to get a new property This issue of subletting is well known in London. Can't believe the councils can't spot check all council tenants every few months They do every 6 months in Havering and other boroughs do the same as I know a few mates who get random checks they have to show photo id and also say who they are renting from |
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Post by Gods on Jul 5, 2017 14:19:26 GMT
Okay this is going to blow my liberal credentials out of the water I think quite the opposite Gods. It's your Liberal credentials that are the reason for your heckles rising. What's right is right and what's wrong is nobody's business. Your empathy is quite rightly with those in genuine need and your anger is against those that abuse the system. Absolutely correct. I just think thousands of people up and down this land each and every day suffer trauma and loss but because they are not a part of some highly politicised cause célèbre such as this they just have to accept that they are unfortunate victims of circumstance and for the most part they just get on with life as best they can. I mean fundamentally is it any more traumatic to have to abandon a burning building at night than it is to learn a family member has terminal cancer or has been killed or maimed in a road accident? We should help people where we can, but in an even handed way, it feels like because this has become so politically charged we are not telling people when they are pushing their luck, we have finite resources and there is an opportunity cost to everything we do. |
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Post by Boothen on Jul 5, 2017 17:10:46 GMT
they just had a guy on the bbc breakfast programme moaning that what they offered him was a mile away from his 10 year old daughters school, im sorry but with attitudes like that then its not going to be solved quickly, most people on here probably lived further away from their schools. all 139 affected residents have been offered alternative accomodation but only 9 have been taken up so far. Are they too fussy, are the hotels too nice, wheres that British spirit gone? British spirit? How many of them were British? In fact, how many of them were here legally and entitled to be housed at the expense of the tax-payer? |
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Post by crapslinger on Jul 5, 2017 17:31:51 GMT
they just had a guy on the bbc breakfast programme moaning that what they offered him was a mile away from his 10 year old daughters school, im sorry but with attitudes like that then its not going to be solved quickly, most people on here probably lived further away from their schools. all 139 affected residents have been offered alternative accomodation but only 9 have been taken up so far. Are they too fussy, are the hotels too nice, wheres that British spirit gone? British spirit? How many of them were British? In fact, how many of them were here legally and entitled to be housed at the expense of the tax-payer? Can people be deemed British if they are illegally ?, if they are proved to be here as an illegal immigrant what assistance should they be offered by the legal British tax payer ?, any person found to be illegally sub letting should be offered no immunity from legal proceedings, they should be charged named and dealt with through the British legal system as the law demands. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2017 17:49:00 GMT
Basically you had genuine tenants who should be looked after (some of whom expect a Chelsea pad at the expense of mine and you're hard earned cash)
Then you have the sub letters who illegally sub let to obviously illegal immigrants. That's just one tower block which has come to light, so understandably the problem is rife and wide spread.
The government should do their job and identify just exactly who lives in these properties.
I dare say it's not just blocks but probably council homes and privetly owned rental homes up and down country from north to south being taken advantage of.
It's pretty obvious the system is abused at certain people's gain and to the tax payers expense, it should not be allowed.
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