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Post by spitthedog on Jun 14, 2017 17:26:02 GMT
Because this could've been prevented. Hold back for the next few days as you'll be shocked at what comes out. Corbyn has been very restraint and acknowledged that for now it's about rescue & recovery but he knows the failings that have led to this and I trust him to expose and seek justice for those poor souls who have suffered as a result. I trust the coroner and the police to do it without any interfering from Corbyn This is exactly what an opposition party should be doing. They are representing those people who are affected who are already expressing anger at the issues that have led to this. They want to know and they need representation. We need politicians representing victims not just ignoring them. If you had been affected directly wouldn't you want politicians raising questions. As said, this is clearly linked to political shortcomings which Labour and others have been banging on about for ages. Unless you get political intervention you don't get change. What we don't want is politicians turning the other cheek.
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Post by claytonscrubs on Jun 14, 2017 17:49:37 GMT
So shocking! .......RIP to all the fatalities.
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Jun 14, 2017 17:56:26 GMT
Very very sad what has happened and I just can't imagine how those people must have feltš® I really can't see why Corbyn is playing the blame game already thoughš” And McDonnell & Harman Disgraceful mate
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Post by Northy on Jun 14, 2017 18:19:22 GMT
I trust the coroner and the police to do it without any interfering from Corbyn This is exactly what an opposition party should be doing. They are representing those people who are affected who are already expressing anger at the issues that have led to this. They want to know and they need representation. We need politicians representing victims not just ignoring them. If you had been affected directly wouldn't you want politicians raising questions. As said, this is clearly linked to political shortcomings which Labour and others have been banging on about for ages. Unless you get political intervention you don't get change. What we don't want is politicians turning the other cheek. No, you dont want politicians interfering, let the fire investigators, police and coroner do their jobs first. Once that has happened and initial reports given then politicians need to look at independent reports and investigations. Politicians should be looking at helping and supporting the people and the local authority to house everybody affected as much as possible; they shouldnt be looking at pointing fingers until facts are known, it will whip up a lynch mob mentality.
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Post by 3putts on Jun 14, 2017 18:42:44 GMT
Shocking and guess what its all down to saving pennies.why was there not an adequate fire escape? And surely any building over 10 floors high should be equipped with a sprinkler system.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Jun 14, 2017 18:58:36 GMT
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Jun 14, 2017 19:03:42 GMT
Didn't know that Momo but I just wish he'd have waited a while then
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Post by duckling on Jun 14, 2017 19:10:42 GMT
So shocking! .......RIP to all the fatalities. The injured deserve just as much attention. Burns are among the most painful and disfiguring injuries possible. They also lead to immense psychological trauma and often result in physical disabilities as the hands and particularly the fingers are very vulnerable.
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Post by claytonscrubs on Jun 14, 2017 19:25:54 GMT
So shocking! .......RIP to all the fatalities. The injured deserve just as much attention. Burns are among the most painful and disfiguring injuries possible. They also lead to immense psychological trauma and often result in physical disabilities as the hands and particularly the fingers are very vulnerable. That goes without saying.....The whole thing is shocking, and the psychological trauma of the injured and relatives who have lost loved ones must be truly awful..... It just seems bad news after bad news in the UK at the moment....
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2017 20:25:06 GMT
Is that the bill where that utter cunt Philip Davies (landlord) droned on for 90 minutes to further block it?
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Post by spitthedog on Jun 14, 2017 20:41:08 GMT
This is exactly what an opposition party should be doing. They are representing those people who are affected who are already expressing anger at the issues that have led to this. They want to know and they need representation. We need politicians representing victims not just ignoring them. If you had been affected directly wouldn't you want politicians raising questions. As said, this is clearly linked to political shortcomings which Labour and others have been banging on about for ages. Unless you get political intervention you don't get change. What we don't want is politicians turning the other cheek. No, you dont want politicians interfering, let the fire investigators, police and coroner do their jobs first. Once that has happened and initial reports given then politicians need to look at independent reports and investigations. Politicians should be looking at helping and supporting the people and the local authority to house everybody affected as much as possible; they shouldnt be looking at pointing fingers until facts are known, it will whip up a lynch mob mentality. Do you mean another investigation that turns into a whitewash and gives the establishment time to cover their tracks. that's all investigations are in this country Hillsborough, Murdoch.....same old shite.....maybe in 27 years the truth will come out.
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Post by felonious on Jun 14, 2017 20:43:43 GMT
Shocking and guess what its all down to saving pennies.why was there not an adequate fire escape? And surely any building over 10 floors high should be equipped with a sprinkler system. Didn't this particular block have Ā£10 million spent on it 12 months ago. It sounds like the local authority spent heavily on this block. If it's the case that the facia wasn't fire retardant at high temperatures and caused the rapid spread of the fire then you have to start questioning building regulations. There's a suggestion that the advice from the fire authorities was to stay put in the event of a fire to be rescued by the fire service. Again this will need a thorough review by regulatory authorities.
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Post by salopstick on Jun 14, 2017 20:49:26 GMT
There are not many MPs not earning an extra Ā£ from being an MP somewhere down the line of all parties Sometimes momo laws are not written well or well meaning ones allow some other stuff in loophole wise. It's easy to take the headline with out seeing the hole story. Every MP should have to register their interests and if they conflict for right or wrong should t be allowed to vote on it
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Post by sheikhmomo on Jun 14, 2017 20:52:41 GMT
Is that the bill where that utter cunt Philip Davies (landlord) droned on for 90 minutes to further block it? Yeah, he's a piece of work. Also filibustered out Domestic Violence legislation
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Post by sheikhmomo on Jun 14, 2017 20:58:08 GMT
There are not many MPs not earning an extra Ā£ from being an MP somewhere down the line of all parties Sometimes momo laws are not written well or well meaning ones allow some other stuff in loophole wise. It's easy to take the headline with out seeing the hole story. Every MP should have to register their interests and if they conflict for right or wrong should t be allowed to vote on it Oh I quite agree. I'm not even sure if any Labour members voted against and wouldn't be surprised if they did but the overriding point is that issues like this are a real point of conflict, particularly in London and there's long been suspicion that lives (particularly in the poorest areas of the capital) were being put in jeopardy. I don't think there was any problem with issues being raised today, those involved will want answers and leaving until after an as yet undetermined date for the Queens Speech just doesn't wash.
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Post by partickpotter on Jun 14, 2017 21:35:29 GMT
This is exactly what an opposition party should be doing. They are representing those people who are affected who are already expressing anger at the issues that have led to this. They want to know and they need representation. We need politicians representing victims not just ignoring them. If you had been affected directly wouldn't you want politicians raising questions. As said, this is clearly linked to political shortcomings which Labour and others have been banging on about for ages. Unless you get political intervention you don't get change. What we don't want is politicians turning the other cheek. No, you dont want politicians interfering, let the fire investigators, police and coroner do their jobs first. Once that has happened and initial reports given then politicians need to look at independent reports and investigations. Politicians should be looking at helping and supporting the people and the local authority to house everybody affected as much as possible; they shouldnt be looking at pointing fingers until facts are known, it will whip up a lynch mob mentality. Indeed. Let the experts figure out what went wrong. Then the politicians can get involved if there is a need. Grandstanding politicians are the last thing needed just now.
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Post by spitthedog on Jun 14, 2017 22:38:14 GMT
Shocking and guess what its all down to saving pennies.why was there not an adequate fire escape? And surely any building over 10 floors high should be equipped with a sprinkler system. Didn't this particular block have Ā£10 million spent on it 12 months ago. It sounds like the local authority spent heavily on this block. If it's the case that the facia wasn't fire retardant at high temperatures and caused the rapid spread of the fire then you have to start questioning building regulations. There's a suggestion that the advice from the fire authorities was to stay put in the event of a fire to be rescued by the fire service. Again this will need a thorough review by regulatory authorities. The money was spent on cladding to make it look nice from the outside. i.e to make it look better to the toffs who have to look at it occasionally. typical British class hierarchy shit. I don't have any trust in enquiries and investigations. will be another whitewash. cover -up by the establishment. Its just a process where everyone covers their own necks.
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Post by Northy on Jun 15, 2017 4:06:42 GMT
No, you dont want politicians interfering, let the fire investigators, police and coroner do their jobs first. Once that has happened and initial reports given then politicians need to look at independent reports and investigations. Politicians should be looking at helping and supporting the people and the local authority to house everybody affected as much as possible; they shouldnt be looking at pointing fingers until facts are known, it will whip up a lynch mob mentality. Do you mean another investigation that turns into a whitewash and gives the establishment time to cover their tracks. that's all investigations are in this country Hillsborough, Murdoch.....same old shite.....maybe in 27 years the truth will come out. youve obviously got an agenda so it's not worth discussing, looking at your post above about Toffs. Maybe the people inside the flats wanted it to look nice as well, rather than the cheaply thrown up 50's concrete towers, I saw quite a few done up in Portsmouth, no Toffs as you call them, around that area.
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Post by bathstoke on Jun 15, 2017 5:33:41 GMT
Do you mean another investigation that turns into a whitewash and gives the establishment time to cover their tracks. that's all investigations are in this country Hillsborough, Murdoch.....same old shite.....maybe in 27 years the truth will come out. youve obviously got an agenda so it's not worth discussing, looking at your post above about Toffs. Maybe the people inside the flats wanted it to look nice as well, rather than the cheaply thrown up 50's concrete towers, I saw quite a few done up in Portsmouth, no Toffs as you call them, around that area. It was built in the 70's
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Post by followyoudown on Jun 15, 2017 5:43:38 GMT
Do you mean another investigation that turns into a whitewash and gives the establishment time to cover their tracks. that's all investigations are in this country Hillsborough, Murdoch.....same old shite.....maybe in 27 years the truth will come out. youve obviously got an agenda so it's not worth discussing, looking at your post above about Toffs. Maybe the people inside the flats wanted it to look nice as well, rather than the cheaply thrown up 50's concrete towers, I saw quite a few done up in Portsmouth, no Toffs as you call them, around that area. They said on the news it was also done to help keep flats warmer as they got really cold.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2017 6:19:03 GMT
Just heard on the news that the Labour government were warned in 1999 about the risks with that sort of cladding and did nowt too
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Post by essexstokey on Jun 15, 2017 6:30:20 GMT
Right Gavin Barlow the then minister was warned a number of years ago about, cladding and sprinklers in tower blocks and just sat on the information and did nothing (bbc breakfast news) the same Gavin Barlow who has the ear of the PM in addition the commons select committee warned that this could happen, again no regulation or action in parliament
There also now asking if the insulate used on the outside of the building was the right safe cladding, If it is substandard or the firm implementing it have cut corners and costs I hope all the directors are charged with Murder (but they wont be) if this is true.
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Post by felonious on Jun 15, 2017 6:53:16 GMT
Just heard on the news that the Labour government were warned in 1999 about the risks with that sort of cladding and did nowt too Conservative MP on some committee said on Newsnight that they've been pushing for improvements for 14 years.
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Post by felonious on Jun 15, 2017 6:57:22 GMT
Didn't this particular block have Ā£10 million spent on it 12 months ago. It sounds like the local authority spent heavily on this block. If it's the case that the facia wasn't fire retardant at high temperatures and caused the rapid spread of the fire then you have to start questioning building regulations. There's a suggestion that the advice from the fire authorities was to stay put in the event of a fire to be rescued by the fire service. Again this will need a thorough review by regulatory authorities. The money was spent on cladding to make it look nice from the outside. i.e to make it look better to the toffs who have to look at it occasionally. typical British class hierarchy shit. I don't have any trust in enquiries and investigations. will be another whitewash. cover -up by the establishment. Its just a process where everyone covers their own necks. The money was spent on internal and external improvements. The point of the cladding was to insulate the building and to make it waterproof. Internal improvements were to the heating and wiring systems for efficiency and safety. Have you listened to any of the reports on the news?
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Post by Northy on Jun 15, 2017 7:02:00 GMT
youve obviously got an agenda so it's not worth discussing, looking at your post above about Toffs. Maybe the people inside the flats wanted it to look nice as well, rather than the cheaply thrown up 50's concrete towers, I saw quite a few done up in Portsmouth, no Toffs as you call them, around that area. They said on the news it was also done to help keep flats warmer as they got really cold. Yes I understand that, I get involved in EU EPBD (Energy Performance of Building Directives) inspections on buildings and also the insurance inspections with Tokio Marine, I was answering spiththedogs comment about it being put on so it looks nice for the Toffs.
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Post by Northy on Jun 15, 2017 7:05:20 GMT
The money was spent on cladding to make it look nice from the outside. i.e to make it look better to the toffs who have to look at it occasionally. typical British class hierarchy shit. I don't have any trust in enquiries and investigations. will be another whitewash. cover -up by the establishment. Its just a process where everyone covers their own necks. The money was spent on internal and external improvements. The point of the cladding was to insulate the building and to make it waterproof. Internal improvements were to the heating and wiring systems for efficiency and safety. Have you listened to any of the reports on the news? One thing I always find when inspecting following internal fitouts, that electricians, plumbers, heating engineers, air conditioning engineers always break fire barriers with their installations, but never seal them back up, which may be down to the principal contractor in the contract, and if they don't have a good clerk of works or Project Manager ensuring it is put back then that is always a concern that the 30 minutes or 1 hour fire barriers become useless.
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Post by spitthedog on Jun 15, 2017 7:05:44 GMT
Do you mean another investigation that turns into a whitewash and gives the establishment time to cover their tracks. that's all investigations are in this country Hillsborough, Murdoch.....same old shite.....maybe in 27 years the truth will come out. youve obviously got an agenda so it's not worth discussing, looking at your post above about Toffs. Maybe the people inside the flats wanted it to look nice as well, rather than the cheaply thrown up 50's concrete towers, I saw quite a few done up in Portsmouth, no Toffs as you call them, around that area. I am repeating what is being said on the streets around that area, and what has been said for some time....and yes there is an agenda....to be living in secure housing under the pressure of "the London clearances" a policy that is geared towards satisfying rich investors. Only last November, the Grenfell Action Group warned of ādangerous living conditionsā and said: āIt is a truly terrifying thought but the Grenfell Action Group firmly believe that only a catastrophic event will expose the ineptitude and incompetence of our landlord, the KCTMO.ā they were probably written off as having an agenda too You can guarantee that these will be luxury flats in a few years, another phase of a social cleansing policy that has been going on for years now, and that is geared towards satisfying the desires of an elite group of people, call them what you want. So yes, there is an agenda and there needs to be an agenda. Without agendas things don't change and show me someone on this message board who doesn't have one!
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Post by bathstoke on Jun 15, 2017 7:17:17 GMT
The money was spent on internal and external improvements. The point of the cladding was to insulate the building and to make it waterproof. Internal improvements were to the heating and wiring systems for efficiency and safety. Have you listened to any of the reports on the news? One thing I always find when inspecting following internal fitouts, that electricians, plumbers, heating engineers, air conditioning engineers always break fire barriers with their installations, but never seal them back up, which may be down to the principal contractor in the contract, and if they don't have a good clerk of works or Project Manager ensuring it is put back then that is always a concern that the 30 minutes or 1 hour fire barriers become useless. There is a huge lack of discipline in the building industry these days.
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Post by manmarking on Jun 15, 2017 7:23:18 GMT
youve obviously got an agenda so it's not worth discussing, looking at your post above about Toffs. Maybe the people inside the flats wanted it to look nice as well, rather than the cheaply thrown up 50's concrete towers, I saw quite a few done up in Portsmouth, no Toffs as you call them, around that area. I am repeating what is being said on the streets around that area, and what has been said for some time....and yes there is an agenda....to be living in secure housing under the pressure of "the London clearances" a policy that is geared towards satisfying rich investors. Only last November, the Grenfell Action Group warned of ādangerous living conditionsā and said: āIt is a truly terrifying thought but the Grenfell Action Group firmly believe that only a catastrophic event will expose the ineptitude and incompetence of our landlord, the KCTMO.ā they were probably written off as having an agenda too You can guarantee that these will be luxury flats in a few years, another phase of a social cleansing policy that has been going on for years now, and that is geared towards satisfying the desires of an elite group of people, call them what you want. So yes, there is an agenda and there needs to be an agenda. Without agendas things don't change and show me someone on this message board who doesn't have one! Good post mate.
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Post by manmarking on Jun 15, 2017 7:37:40 GMT
They said on the news it was also done to help keep flats warmer as they got really cold. Yes I understand that, I get involved in EU EPBD (Energy Performance of Building Directives) inspections on buildings and also the insurance inspections with Tokio Marine, I was answering spiththedogs comment about it being put on so it looks nice for the Toffs. Which seems to be supported by this press release from Rydon last year. www.rydon.co.uk/news/rydon-lands-grenfell-tower-refurbishment-The main focus of both Rydon and Cllr Paget Brown - in July 2016 at least - appeared to be the aesthetic of the building.
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