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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Dec 1, 2022 18:19:43 GMT
www.ft.com/content/e39d0315-fd5b-47c8-8560-04bb786f2c13".... economists have reached a consensus: Brexit has significantly worsened the country's economic performance"........... "While economists and officials do not agree on the precise magnitude of the Brexit effect, they consider it to be large." What do they know? An ex-steel plant manager knows better. Same with environmental experts. Doesn't matter anyway. Short term hit only. Confident that, in the long run, it'll be a roaring success. Etc.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Dec 1, 2022 22:00:05 GMT
www.ft.com/content/e39d0315-fd5b-47c8-8560-04bb786f2c13".... economists have reached a consensus: Brexit has significantly worsened the country's economic performance"........... "While economists and officials do not agree on the precise magnitude of the Brexit effect, they consider it to be large." Project fear ...
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Post by oggyoggy on Dec 3, 2022 16:38:34 GMT
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Post by iglugluk on Dec 3, 2022 23:27:46 GMT
Just read this report and was about to post it on here.. some people simply cannot admit they made a huge mistake based on buying into a thinly disguised anti-foreigners agenda. We need to rejoin the EU but the two main political parties seem intent on ignoring that truth in order to keep the swing voting minority happy.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Dec 4, 2022 9:21:15 GMT
Just read this report and was about to post it on here.. some people simply cannot admit they made a huge mistake based on buying into a thinly disguised anti-foreigners agenda. We need to rejoin the EU but the two main political parties seem intent on ignoring that truth in order to keep the swing voting minority happy. We can't rejoin the EU yet. To do so, even to indicate a willingness to do so, would be political suicide. In effect, it'd signal that you think all those people who voted leave and haven't changed their minds got it wrong and are still getting it wrong. That, in itself, regardless of any other policies, would be enough to finish a party's chances. Sad to say, but significant time needs to pass before any suggestion of rejoining could be floated. A decade from now at least. Loads of leavers will be dead by then and the damage and lack of Brexit benefit will be all too obvious and impossible to deny. In the meantime, we'll slowly and quietly realign ourselves step by step with the EU. You're seeing these kind of messages coming out of central govt already, feeling the mood for doing so. I suspect the reality is that the public doesn't actually give much of a shit one way or the other, just like most people didn't give a shit ten years ago, their priority is for life to get better and they're not that bothered how it's made better. The sad thing is that it's the internal feuding of the Tory party which will once again take precedence over what is actually best for Britain and its people.
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Post by iglugluk on Dec 4, 2022 11:35:26 GMT
Just read this report and was about to post it on here.. some people simply cannot admit they made a huge mistake based on buying into a thinly disguised anti-foreigners agenda. We need to rejoin the EU but the two main political parties seem intent on ignoring that truth in order to keep the swing voting minority happy. We can't rejoin the EU yet. To do so, even to indicate a willingness to do so, would be political suicide. In effect, it'd signal that you think all those people who voted leave and haven't changed their minds got it wrong and are still getting it wrong. That, in itself, regardless of any other policies, would be enough to finish a party's chances. Sad to say, but significant time needs to pass before any suggestion of rejoining could be floated. A decade from now at least. Loads of leavers will be dead by then and the damage and lack of Brexit benefit will be all too obvious and impossible to deny. In the meantime, we'll slowly and quietly realign ourselves step by step with the EU. You're seeing these kind of messages coming out of central govt already, feeling the mood for doing so. I suspect the reality is that the public doesn't actually give much of a shit one way or the other, just like most people didn't give a shit ten years ago, their priority is for life to get better and they're not that bothered how it's made better. The sad thing is that it's the internal feuding of the Tory party which will once again take precedence over what is actually best for Britain and its people. Yes I am aware of the political realities, although I also think the harsh economic reality the UK, in particular, is facing may very well serve to emphasise the suicidal decision that was made by those who voted to leave based on lies being peddled via the scurrilous campaign orchestrated by Johnson, Farage et al. The ability to put food on one's plate has the effect of concentrating the mind when push comes to shove. We will see if that effect takes more than a decade to bite ( excuse the pun ) and I suspect people's sacrosanct holidays will play into their thoughts around this.. food and leisure time affect most people afterall. To allow such a momentous decision to be decided by simple majority vote was the height of stupidity and it has riven the Country in two both metaphorically and potentially literally. It didn't take long for the issues that drove us into joining the EU to reemerge once we left so those who voted leave and now regret that decision need to be given a hiding place so they can have have the opportunity to change their minds.. or, as you have written, simply wait for many of them to die, which unfortunately will include those older more well informed remain voters too unfortunately. Even if we do decide to rejoin at some point I suspect our terms of joining will be considerably less favourable than those we left behind and acceptance of the Euro will likely be required.. something which definitely will provide a major problem for any rejoin campaign to sell. Cameron and his Tory Party have left the Country in a damned if we do and damned if we do don't position unfortunately.
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Post by OldStokie on Dec 4, 2022 11:47:35 GMT
Just read this report and was about to post it on here.. some people simply cannot admit they made a huge mistake based on buying into a thinly disguised anti-foreigners agenda. We need to rejoin the EU but the two main political parties seem intent on ignoring that truth in order to keep the swing voting minority happy. We can't rejoin the EU yet. To do so, even to indicate a willingness to do so, would be political suicide. In effect, it'd signal that you think all those people who voted leave and haven't changed their minds got it wrong and are still getting it wrong. That, in itself, regardless of any other policies, would be enough to finish a party's chances. Sad to say, but significant time needs to pass before any suggestion of rejoining could be floated. A decade from now at least. Loads of leavers will be dead by then and the damage and lack of Brexit benefit will be all too obvious and impossible to deny. In the meantime, we'll slowly and quietly realign ourselves step by step with the EU. You're seeing these kind of messages coming out of central govt already, feeling the mood for doing so. I suspect the reality is that the public doesn't actually give much of a shit one way or the other, just like most people didn't give a shit ten years ago, their priority is for life to get better and they're not that bothered how it's made better. The sad thing is that it's the internal feuding of the Tory party which will once again take precedence over what is actually best for Britain and its people. I reckon if Starmer gets in, Labour will seek to soften the harm by negotiating a better deal that certainly won't be liked by the ERG. That's 18 months down the line and even more people will be grasping that the deal we have now is making us all worse off. OS.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Dec 4, 2022 12:47:07 GMT
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Dec 4, 2022 14:19:21 GMT
We can't rejoin the EU yet. To do so, even to indicate a willingness to do so, would be political suicide. In effect, it'd signal that you think all those people who voted leave and haven't changed their minds got it wrong and are still getting it wrong. That, in itself, regardless of any other policies, would be enough to finish a party's chances. Sad to say, but significant time needs to pass before any suggestion of rejoining could be floated. A decade from now at least. Loads of leavers will be dead by then and the damage and lack of Brexit benefit will be all too obvious and impossible to deny. In the meantime, we'll slowly and quietly realign ourselves step by step with the EU. You're seeing these kind of messages coming out of central govt already, feeling the mood for doing so. I suspect the reality is that the public doesn't actually give much of a shit one way or the other, just like most people didn't give a shit ten years ago, their priority is for life to get better and they're not that bothered how it's made better. The sad thing is that it's the internal feuding of the Tory party which will once again take precedence over what is actually best for Britain and its people. I reckon if Starmer gets in, Labour will seek to soften the harm by negotiating a better deal that certainly won't be liked by the ERG. That's 18 months down the line and even more people will be grasping that the deal we have now is making us all worse off. OS. I agree, OS. It's probably the best we can hope for over the next decade or so. The electorate, if it's possible to characterise such an enormous thing, is a sensitive animal. It won't take kindly to being told it got it wrong, even if it did! So any party wanting to put things right re Brexit will need to frame their moves carefully: we're trying to make things better, not overturning Brexit completely. (You can see already how the Tory right and their client media will portray things as the latter). Hopefully, if Labour does get elected, our relationship with Europe will improve to the point that we can both work together towards solutions that work for the UK and the EU. I think that is extremely likely and a strong reason for voting for them next time. Our country will improve as a result. Brexit isn't working, it never will. It's contributed significantly towards the country being worse off in almost all areas. It hasn't even solved the problem it was originally intended to solve: the factions and infighting in the Tory party. Hopefully, in three years' time, when the best part of a decade has passed since the referendum and the best part of five years since really leaving, and we have a more sensible government, enough people will be prepared to accept the evidence that Brexit wasn't a good idea, be able to put their disappointment aside and agree that making the UK a better place is the priority, and if that means closer ties to the EU, so be it. We can then go back to pretty much where we were a decade or so ago (without fully rejoining), where most people simply didn't really care about the EU and our relationship with it, and write off the last decade as a monumental waste of time and money.
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Post by iancransonsknees on Dec 6, 2022 22:09:43 GMT
Definitely somebody from here.
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Post by oggyoggy on Dec 6, 2022 22:18:38 GMT
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Post by bayernoatcake on Dec 6, 2022 23:36:19 GMT
Has there been a more treacherous act in this country? It's up there for sure.
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Post by prettything on Dec 8, 2022 19:43:01 GMT
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Dec 8, 2022 19:47:58 GMT
Be afraid, be very afraid. What led to the financial crisis of 2007/8? Deregulation. What are the idiots in government doing now? More deregulation. Why? Because Brexit was a shit idea and they are absolutely desperate for growth at any cost. Frightening stuff.
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Post by prettything on Dec 8, 2022 19:49:33 GMT
Be afraid, be very afraid. What led to the financial crisis of 2007/8? Deregulation. What are the idiots in government doing now? More deregulation. Why? Because Brexit was a shit idea and they are absolutely desperate for growth at any cost. Frightening stuff. I’m sure many of them didn’t care whether it went well or not. It’s this they wanted.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Dec 8, 2022 20:01:08 GMT
Be afraid, be very afraid. What led to the financial crisis of 2007/8? Deregulation. What are the idiots in government doing now? More deregulation. Why? Because Brexit was a shit idea and they are absolutely desperate for growth at any cost. Frightening stuff. I’m sure many of them didn’t care whether it went well or not. It’s this they wanted. As always, a few people will make a lot of money from this and, if and when deregulation causes the issues that deregulation nearly always causes, it'll be ordinary people who bear the brunt again, just like they have done over the last decade of austerity on public services. It amazes me that any ordinary Stokie on this board still clings to the idea that this right wing govt gives the remotest shit about them. (And yes, while far from perfect, I do think the other lot give more of a shit about ordinary folk, always have).
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Dec 8, 2022 20:59:19 GMT
I’m sure many of them didn’t care whether it went well or not. It’s this they wanted. As always, a few people will make a lot of money from this and, if and when deregulation causes the issues that deregulation nearly always causes, it'll be ordinary people who bear the brunt again, just like they have done over the last decade of austerity on public services. It amazes me that any ordinary Stokie on this board still clings to the idea that this right wing govt gives the remotest shit about them. (And yes, while far from perfect, I do think the other lot give more of a shit about ordinary folk, always have). Right wing?🤣🤣🤣🤣 Fuck me sideways!
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Dec 8, 2022 22:09:39 GMT
As always, a few people will make a lot of money from this and, if and when deregulation causes the issues that deregulation nearly always causes, it'll be ordinary people who bear the brunt again, just like they have done over the last decade of austerity on public services. It amazes me that any ordinary Stokie on this board still clings to the idea that this right wing govt gives the remotest shit about them. (And yes, while far from perfect, I do think the other lot give more of a shit about ordinary folk, always have). Right wing?🤣🤣🤣🤣 Fuck me sideways! Thought you were steering clear of politics threads! You don't think this govt is right-wing? That sounds like a variation of "they're all the same, you know", just trying to make yourself feel better by pretending it's not really the govt you'd like to see and is really some form of lefty socialist nonsense! Was Truss's govt more to your taste, or still not right-wing enough? It was described as the most libertarian, right-wing govt in the UK in modern times, indeed in Europe, saving the recent Italian election. That went well.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Dec 8, 2022 22:20:49 GMT
Right wing?🤣🤣🤣🤣 Fuck me sideways! Thought you were steering clear of politics threads! You don't think this govt is right-wing? That sounds like a variation of "they're all the same, you know", just trying to make yourself feel better by pretending it's not really the govt you'd like to see and is really some form of lefty socialist nonsense! Was Truss's govt more to your taste, or still not right-wing enough? It was described as the most libertarian, right-wing govt in the UK in modern times, indeed in Europe, saving the recent Italian election. That went well. What are you babbling on about? Right wing? Do me a favour
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Dec 9, 2022 7:03:17 GMT
Thought you were steering clear of politics threads! You don't think this govt is right-wing? That sounds like a variation of "they're all the same, you know", just trying to make yourself feel better by pretending it's not really the govt you'd like to see and is really some form of lefty socialist nonsense! Was Truss's govt more to your taste, or still not right-wing enough? It was described as the most libertarian, right-wing govt in the UK in modern times, indeed in Europe, saving the recent Italian election. That went well. What are you babbling on about? Right wing? Do me a favour What are you doing on the dull politics threads that bore you so much but can't stay away from! Right, so if you can't blame 'the Left' directly because the right has been in power for the last 12 years (although, laughably, some folk still try!) the response is to pretend that the Tory government is actually a left-wing govt! But you didn't answer the question. Were Truss and Kwarteng more to your taste or still not right-wing enough?
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Post by oggyoggy on Dec 9, 2022 7:14:48 GMT
Thought you were steering clear of politics threads! You don't think this govt is right-wing? That sounds like a variation of "they're all the same, you know", just trying to make yourself feel better by pretending it's not really the govt you'd like to see and is really some form of lefty socialist nonsense! Was Truss's govt more to your taste, or still not right-wing enough? It was described as the most libertarian, right-wing govt in the UK in modern times, indeed in Europe, saving the recent Italian election. That went well. What are you babbling on about? Right wing? Do me a favour Wanting to deport immigrants who have absolutely no legal method of coming here to Rwanda. Right wing. Deregulation. Right wing Austerity. Right wing Refusal to even attempt to negotiate with striking workers and threats to introduce legislation to make striking harder. Right wing Supported by the right wing press. Right wing Corrupt free market capitalism at all costs. Right wing Refusal to nationalise rail and utilities when a brick knows it’s the best way forward for better service and cheaper prices for consumers. Right wing National asset strippers (eg recent press about water companies) and a total refusal to regulate to do anything about it. Right wing Lack of decent child care provision for working parents. Right wing Hatred of taxes on the wealthiest (so reluctant to apply the windfall tax and no wealth tax at a time of economy crisis). Right wing Refusal to build houses in case you upset the rich pensioners. Right wing Kicking out all centrists and “normal” tories for wanting a decent brexit deal, but standing by rapey right wingers at all cost. Right wing So much power to the ERG. Right wing Brexit to deregulate. Right wing More and more wealth in the hands of fewer and fewer people and at the expense of the majority. Right wing They are generally right wing. Not far right. Not Hitler. But certainly right of centre. They are UKIP in all honesty. There seems to be very few “sensible” more centre tories left in the party. It is why they are in such a mess.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Dec 9, 2022 8:03:26 GMT
What are you babbling on about? Right wing? Do me a favour Wanting to deport immigrants who have absolutely no legal method of coming here to Rwanda. Right wing. Deregulation. Right wing Austerity. Right wing Refusal to even attempt to negotiate with striking workers and threats to introduce legislation to make striking harder. Right wing Supported by the right wing press. Right wing Corrupt free market capitalism at all costs. Right wing Refusal to nationalise rail and utilities when a brick knows it’s the best way forward for better service and cheaper prices for consumers. Right wing National asset strippers (eg recent press about water companies) and a total refusal to regulate to do anything about it. Right wing Lack of decent child care provision for working parents. Right wing Hatred of taxes on the wealthiest (so reluctant to apply the windfall tax and no wealth tax at a time of economy crisis). Right wing Refusal to build houses in case you upset the rich pensioners. Right wing Kicking out all centrists and “normal” tories for wanting a decent brexit deal, but standing by rapey right wingers at all cost. Right wing So much power to the ERG. Right wing Brexit to deregulate. Right wing More and more wealth in the hands of fewer and fewer people and at the expense of the majority. Right wing They are generally right wing. Not far right. Not Hitler. But certainly right of centre. They are UKIP in all honesty. There seems to be very few “sensible” more centre tories left in the party. It is why they are in such a mess. You're so superior with your facts and shit.
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Dec 9, 2022 12:34:08 GMT
I see the financial services deregulation is being touted as a benefit of Brexit. More Bexit bollocks.
As pointed out on the radio this morning these are measures to try and reverse the negative impacts of Brexit on the UK financial sector.
Brexit is proving such a complete disaster that the only way out of the fucking great hole it's tipping the UK into is by gambling.
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Post by dutchstokie on Dec 9, 2022 12:48:22 GMT
I see the financial services deregulation is being touted as a benefit of Brexit. More Bexit bollocks. As pointed out on the radio this morning these are measures to try and reverse the negative impacts of Brexit on the UK financial sector. Brexit is proving such a complete disaster that the only way out of the fucking great hole it's tipping the UK into is by gambling. Nige disagrees Attachment Deleted
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Dec 9, 2022 16:20:27 GMT
I see the financial services deregulation is being touted as a benefit of Brexit. More Bexit bollocks. As pointed out on the radio this morning these are measures to try and reverse the negative impacts of Brexit on the UK financial sector. Brexit is proving such a complete disaster that the only way out of the fucking great hole it's tipping the UK into is by gambling. Nige disagrees View AttachmentNige though Kwarteng's budget was ace...
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Dec 10, 2022 14:55:13 GMT
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Post by toppercorner on Dec 12, 2022 11:03:11 GMT
Cheers Brexiteers.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Dec 12, 2022 17:59:04 GMT
That's ok, because "our increased trade with the rest of the world more than makes up for it"* * it doesn't.
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Post by OldStokie on Dec 12, 2022 19:54:07 GMT
I'm trying to think of one single thing from Brexit that has made me or the working classes any better off. I reckon that would apply to farmers, fishermen, and most small businesses. It has to be the biggest con and rip off in political history.
OS.
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Post by oggyoggy on Dec 12, 2022 20:15:31 GMT
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