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Post by wagsastokie on Oct 29, 2020 6:43:05 GMT
Trouble is who the hell is going to take over? It’s a pretty shallow pond. The public are so far detached from politics right now it’s untrue It’ll be Rishi Furlough Sunak! The Tories are grooming him for the role. Party with first female P.M. and party with first ethnic minority P.M.. It may be tokenism but it’s effective tokenism? Why is it tokenism The Tory’s have had two women prime minsters one the finest of the twentieth century and may The Labour Party had a chance to elect its first women leader (yes first ) And what did there diversity loving membership do they Elected a male pompous middle aged white London luvvie
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Oct 29, 2020 7:00:25 GMT
It’ll be Rishi Furlough Sunak! The Tories are grooming him for the role. Party with first female P.M. and party with first ethnic minority P.M.. It may be tokenism but it’s effective tokenism? Why is it tokenism The Tory’s have had two women prime minsters one the finest of the twentieth century and may The Labour Party had a chance to elect its first women leader (yes first ) And what did there diversity loving membership do they Elected a male pompous middle aged white London luvvie So you're saying they should've voted for a woman, even if they thought the man was the best person for the job?
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Post by wagsastokie on Oct 29, 2020 7:51:45 GMT
Why is it tokenism The Tory’s have had two women prime minsters one the finest of the twentieth century and may The Labour Party had a chance to elect its first women leader (yes first ) And what did there diversity loving membership do they Elected a male pompous middle aged white London luvvie So you're saying they should've voted for a woman, even if they thought the man was the best person for the job? No one should get a job because of there gender colour or sexual preferences People should get a job purely on there ability Whether starmer was the correct choice of the candidates remains open to debate I would of chose a another candidate I just find it a bit rich that someone could accuse the Tory party of tokenism When the Labour Party haven’t even filled the forms out to apply for the tokens
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Oct 29, 2020 9:08:56 GMT
So you're saying they should've voted for a woman, even if they thought the man was the best person for the job? No one should get a job because of there gender colour or sexual preferences People should get a job purely on there ability Whether starmer was the correct choice of the candidates remains open to debate I would of chose a another candidate I just find it a bit rich that someone could accuse the Tory party of tokenism When the Labour Party haven’t even filled the forms out to apply for the tokens That's a good thing isn't it?
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Post by nicholasjalcock on Oct 29, 2020 11:55:58 GMT
It’ll be Rishi Furlough Sunak! The Tories are grooming him for the role. Party with first female P.M. and party with first ethnic minority P.M.. It may be tokenism but it’s effective tokenism? Why is it tokenism The Tory’s have had two women prime minsters one the finest of the twentieth century and may The Labour Party had a chance to elect its first women leader (yes first ) And what did there diversity loving membership do they Elected a male pompous middle aged white London luvvie The first Tory female P.M. was the most evil Cnut who ever walked on this planet and the second was so incompetent that even Bluffer deposed her! When Bluffer’s better than you you must be bad! Incidentally, the Labour leader did his first degree in the great northern city of Leeds? When was the last time a Tory leader was educated north of the Watford Gap?
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Post by thevoid on Oct 29, 2020 12:24:43 GMT
Why is it tokenism The Tory’s have had two women prime minsters one the finest of the twentieth century and may The Labour Party had a chance to elect its first women leader (yes first ) And what did there diversity loving membership do they Elected a male pompous middle aged white London luvvie The first Tory female P.M. was the most evil Cnut who ever walked on this planet and the second was so incompetent that even Bluffer deposed her! When Bluffer’s better than you you must be bad! Incidentally, the Labour leader did his first degree in the great northern city of Leeds? When was the last time a Tory leader was educated north of the Watford Gap? 'The first Tory female P.M. was the most evil Cnut who ever walked on this planet' Worse than Hitler, Stalin, Shipman or a bloke who blew a theatre full of kids up? Really? Even by your standards that's a pearler, Nicko. Get help.
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Post by yeokel on Oct 29, 2020 12:41:37 GMT
Yes, we did. People were sick and tired of hearing about Brexit and just wanted it to go away. The second part I agree with. I think he's already seen as shot, too many ordinary people have now seen through the bluff and bluster for what it was (not before taking a good percentage of the population for a good ride along the way!) ie vapid opportunism and a sense of entitlement backed up by not very much. Trouble is who the hell is going to take over? It’s a pretty shallow pond. The public are so far detached from politics right now it’s untrue I think it's the other way round isn't it - That politics has become detached from the lives of ordinary people? It is nothing more than a career for most of them. There is very little evidence of any desire to improve the lot of the working man (or woman, or trans) or the country as a whole, if it comes to that. I suppose that might be a view based on looking towards the left though. The labour party leadership are no longer 'men* of the people', they are just a different flavour of the "elite". * other genders are available.
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Post by nicholasjalcock on Oct 29, 2020 13:14:31 GMT
The first Tory female P.M. was the most evil Cnut who ever walked on this planet and the second was so incompetent that even Bluffer deposed her! When Bluffer’s better than you you must be bad! Incidentally, the Labour leader did his first degree in the great northern city of Leeds? When was the last time a Tory leader was educated north of the Watford Gap? 'The first Tory female P.M. was the most evil Cnut who ever walked on this planet' Worse than Hitler, Stalin, Shipman or a bloke who blew a theatre full of kids up? Really? Even by your standards that's a pearler, Nicko. Get help. Since when was Hitler? Stalin? Shipman? Or the bloke that blew up a theatre? ever female? Or ever female leaders of the Tory party? You aren’t the brightest person in the room are you? And that’s the understatement of the last two centuries?!
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Post by thevoid on Oct 29, 2020 13:42:30 GMT
'The first Tory female P.M. was the most evil Cnut who ever walked on this planet' Worse than Hitler, Stalin, Shipman or a bloke who blew a theatre full of kids up? Really? Even by your standards that's a pearler, Nicko. Get help. Since when was Hitler? Stalin? Shipman? Or the bloke that blew up a theatre? ever female? Or ever female leaders of the Tory party? You aren’t the brightest person in the room are you? And that’s the understatement of the last two centuries?! You absolute valve 😆 You didn't mention gender- which is irrelevant anyway. You said she was 'the most evil cnut who walked this planet'. And if you're going to cast aspersions on other people's intelligence, two points: 1. Try not to use question marks in place of commas. 2. Try and remember your own quote 😂 The absolute state of you.
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Post by nicholasjalcock on Oct 29, 2020 14:01:00 GMT
Since when was Hitler? Stalin? Shipman? Or the bloke that blew up a theatre? ever female? Or ever female leaders of the Tory party? You aren’t the brightest person in the room are you? And that’s the understatement of the last two centuries?! You absolute valve 😆 You didn't mention gender- which is irrelevant anyway. You said she was 'the most evil cnut who walked this planet'. And if you're going to cast aspersions on other people's intelligence, two points: 1. Try not to use question marks in place of commas. 2. Try and remember your own quote 😂 The absolute state of you. As it so happens I fact checked a post you made about Labour and it’s economic record in the 1920s. The line you were making was that Labour always messes up. Of course, Labour was barely in power over the decade and fleetingly twice with the Liberals. The biggest disaster was Winston Churchill going back onto the Gold Standard at an overvalued rate! One of the worst affected industries was the pottery industry! But voidy, bless him, thinks it was all the fault of Labour?! I was dying to point out this at the time but thought better of it! Coming back to my question of name a Tory leader educated north of Watford? The answer is of course Neville Chamberlain! Yet another Tory who did his best to drop us all in the fertiliser?! But I guess voidy thinks he is our best P.M. ever? Haha!
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Post by thevoid on Oct 29, 2020 14:07:30 GMT
You absolute valve 😆 You didn't mention gender- which is irrelevant anyway. You said she was 'the most evil cnut who walked this planet'. And if you're going to cast aspersions on other people's intelligence, two points: 1. Try not to use question marks in place of commas. 2. Try and remember your own quote 😂 The absolute state of you. As it so happens I fact checked a post you made about Labour and it’s economic record in the 1920s. The line you were making was that Labour always messes up. Of course, Labour was barely in power over the decade and fleetingly twice with the Liberals. The biggest disaster was Winston Churchill going back onto the Gold Standard at an overvalued rate! One of the worst affected industries was the pottery industry! But voidy, bless him, thinks it was all the fault of Labour?! I was dying to point out this at the time but thought better of it! Coming back to my question of name a Tory leader educated north of Watford? The answer is of course Neville Chamberlain! Yet another Tory who did his best to drop us all in the fertiliser?! But I guess voidy thinks he is our best P.M. ever? Haha! Wrong again, Nicko. I've criticised Johnson and the Tories numerous times on the COVID and school meals threads lately- saying as you like quotes of mine, perhaps you missed the one recently where I said "Thanks for the votes proles, now fuck off"? As for the rest of your strawman waffle, I've no idea what it has to do with your pathetic comment further up this thread and quite frankly I'm not interested. What does Neville Chamberlain's schooldays have to do with the price of cod? 😂 You're tapped.
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Post by nicholasjalcock on Oct 29, 2020 14:14:15 GMT
As it so happens I fact checked a post you made about Labour and it’s economic record in the 1920s. The line you were making was that Labour always messes up. Of course, Labour was barely in power over the decade and fleetingly twice with the Liberals. The biggest disaster was Winston Churchill going back onto the Gold Standard at an overvalued rate! One of the worst affected industries was the pottery industry! But voidy, bless him, thinks it was all the fault of Labour?! I was dying to point out this at the time but thought better of it! Coming back to my question of name a Tory leader educated north of Watford? The answer is of course Neville Chamberlain! Yet another Tory who did his best to drop us all in the fertiliser?! But I guess voidy thinks he is our best P.M. ever? Haha! Wrong again. I've criticised Johnson and the Tories numerous times on the COVID and school meals threads lately- saying as you like quotes of mine, perhaps you missed the one recently where I said "Thanks for the votes proles, now fuck off"? As for the rest of your strawman waffle, I've no idea what it has to do with your pathetic comment further up this thread and quite frankly I'm not interested. I simply made the point as many in Stoke have made of those times and Thatcher was the most evil witch ever! I lived through those times and she was the most callous P.M. ever?! Only disgusting Tories think she was marvellous?! My point earlier was that you post malicious untruths hoping no-one will fact check anything? Frankly, I found your 100% inaccurate piece to be disgusting?
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Post by thevoid on Oct 29, 2020 14:35:40 GMT
Wrong again. I've criticised Johnson and the Tories numerous times on the COVID and school meals threads lately- saying as you like quotes of mine, perhaps you missed the one recently where I said "Thanks for the votes proles, now fuck off"? As for the rest of your strawman waffle, I've no idea what it has to do with your pathetic comment further up this thread and quite frankly I'm not interested. I simply made the point as many in Stoke have made of those times and Thatcher was the most evil witch ever! I lived through those times and she was the most callous P.M. ever?! Only disgusting Tories think she was marvellous?! My point earlier was that you post malicious untruths hoping no-one will fact check anything? Frankly, I found your 100% inaccurate piece to be disgusting? Well I find your ridiculous comment further up this thread and general demeanour disgusting so we're quits. And it's not like you haven't got form for similar bile during your time on here (I'm talking about your comments towards Angela Smith from a while back). Don't try and wriggle out of it. As for the rest of your posts, they feel like one of those newspaper puzzles where you start with one word at the top, a completely different word at the bottom and you need to fill in the gaps in between 😆 If you reply again (and I really hope you don't) I'm expecting some unrelated gibberish about Genghis Khan or something 😂
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Post by nicholasjalcock on Oct 29, 2020 14:43:02 GMT
I simply made the point as many in Stoke have made of those times and Thatcher was the most evil witch ever! I lived through those times and she was the most callous P.M. ever?! Only disgusting Tories think she was marvellous?! My point earlier was that you post malicious untruths hoping no-one will fact check anything? Frankly, I found your 100% inaccurate piece to be disgusting? Well I find your ridiculous comment further up this thread and general demeanour disgusting so we're quits. And it's not like you haven't got form for similar bile during your time on here (I'm talking about your comments towards Angela Smith from a while back). As for the rest of your posts, they feel like one of those newspaper puzzles where you start with one word at the top, a completely different word at the bottom and you need to fill in the gaps inbetween 😆 If you reply again (and I really hope you don't) I'm expecting some unrelated gibberish about Genghis Khan or something 😂 Oh I see? The truth is finally out? Along with Ange you’re a fully paid member of the Tory fan club? I won’t go on about your fanboys record at Westminster? You’re the people who practice evil! No other party does? Not Labour, not the LDs, not the Greens, not the SNP, not Plaid Cymru just you evil lot!
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Post by thevoid on Oct 29, 2020 14:47:20 GMT
Well I find your ridiculous comment further up this thread and general demeanour disgusting so we're quits. And it's not like you haven't got form for similar bile during your time on here (I'm talking about your comments towards Angela Smith from a while back). As for the rest of your posts, they feel like one of those newspaper puzzles where you start with one word at the top, a completely different word at the bottom and you need to fill in the gaps inbetween 😆 If you reply again (and I really hope you don't) I'm expecting some unrelated gibberish about Genghis Khan or something 😂 Oh I see? The truth is finally out? Along with Ange you’re a fully paid member of the Tory fan club? I won’t go on about your fanboys record at Westminster? You’re the people who practice evil! No other party does? Not Labour, not the LDs, not the Greens, not the SNP, not Plaid Cymru just you evil lot! Sod this for a game of soldiers. Laters, Nicko 😆 I'm off to the gym and then I'll kill a cat and practice some evil. Cthulhu awake 😂
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Nov 3, 2020 11:53:09 GMT
All gone a bit quiet hasn't it?
I wonder if they're in the tunnel negotiations stage? Perhaps an announcement is brewing in the next few days which might be sneaked out while the US election 'result' is all kicking off!
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Post by Widget123 on Nov 3, 2020 15:23:11 GMT
All gone a bit quiet hasn't it? I wonder if they're in the tunnel negotiations stage? Perhaps an announcement is brewing in the next few days which might be sneaked out while the US election 'result' is all kicking off! I'm personally hoping that some sort of consensus of reality has kicked in and that trying to do Brexit during a second peak in a global pandemic is utter madness without any upside at all. Putting aside opinions entirely on whether its a good or bad idea you don't need to read Sun Tzu's Art of War to realise that trying to fight on two major fronts at the same time just leads to attrition where nobody gets what they want. It'd be better for the sanity of the negotiators and the country as a whole to just kick the can down the road a bit. After this long another few more months isn't going to make any difference. Simply put a new formal deadline in the diary for the spring/Summer when hopefully we'll have got through the tough Covid winter and work towards that. I appreciate this would need a new legal framework to be done but given the situation something could be worked out to allow all sides to get through winter first as a priority.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Nov 3, 2020 18:29:10 GMT
All gone a bit quiet hasn't it? I wonder if they're in the tunnel negotiations stage? Perhaps an announcement is brewing in the next few days which might be sneaked out while the US election 'result' is all kicking off! I'm personally hoping that some sort of consensus of reality has kicked in and that trying to do Brexit during a second peak in a global pandemic is utter madness without any upside at all. Putting aside opinions entirely on whether its a good or bad idea you don't need to read Sun Tzu's Art of War to realise that trying to fight on two major fronts at the same time just leads to attrition where nobody gets what they want. It'd be better for the sanity of the negotiators and the country as a whole to just kick the can down the road a bit. After this long another few more months isn't going to make any difference. Simply put a new formal deadline in the diary for the spring/Summer when hopefully we'll have got through the tough Covid winter and work towards that. I appreciate this would need a new legal framework to be done but given the situation something could be worked out to allow all sides to get through winter first as a priority. That would be an eminently sensible thing to do in the circumstances, and is therefore extremely unlikely to happen.
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Post by mrcoke on Nov 3, 2020 18:33:50 GMT
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Nov 3, 2020 19:09:40 GMT
The Kenya deal replicates the existing deal with the EU.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 3, 2020 19:36:05 GMT
The Kenya deal replicates the existing deal with the EU. That's good then, keep it simple....I wonder why the EU can't do similar?.....perhaps Kenya don't want sovereignty over the UK.
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Post by felonious on Nov 3, 2020 19:40:46 GMT
The Kenya deal replicates the existing deal with the EU. That's good then, keep it simple....I wonder why the EU can't do similar?.....perhaps Kenya don't want sovereignty over the UK. It's a trade association that doesn't like to trade
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Nov 3, 2020 20:25:30 GMT
The Kenya deal replicates the existing deal with the EU. That's good then, keep it simple....I wonder why the EU can't do similar?.....perhaps Kenya don't want sovereignty over the UK. So you want the same trading terms as we have with the EU at present, fishing rights, state aid rules and all ?
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 3, 2020 20:31:22 GMT
That's good then, keep it simple....I wonder why the EU can't do similar?.....perhaps Kenya don't want sovereignty over the UK. So you want the same trading terms as we have with the EU at present, fishing rights, state aid rules and all ? No, I would like a Canadian style deal.....or one that respects our independence and Sovereignty...given that we have left the EU, what do you want?
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Nov 3, 2020 21:12:28 GMT
So you want the same trading terms as we have with the EU at present, fishing rights, state aid rules and all ? No, I would like a Canadian style deal.....or one that respects our independence and Sovereignty...given that we have left the EU, what do you want? Well it was you who said you wanted the EU to keep it simple and do the same as we have done with Kenya and roll over the existing EU deal. But you don't actually want that, you want Canada-style. So it's not the same. What do I want? I want the best deal the UK can get , but accept there will need to be compromises. The fact that talks are continuing weeks after Johnson's deadline suggest that compromise on both sides is likely. Let's hope something is decided soon because the prospect of inflicting a no-deal on a nation stumbling out of a second lockdown is as Widget said earlier, utter madness.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 3, 2020 21:38:58 GMT
No, I would like a Canadian style deal.....or one that respects our independence and Sovereignty...given that we have left the EU, what do you want? Well it was you who said you wanted the EU to keep it simple and do the same as we have done with Kenya and roll over the existing EU deal. But you don't actually want that, you want Canada-style. So it's not the same. What do I want? I want the best deal the UK can get , but accept there will need to be compromises. The fact that talks are continuing weeks after Johnson's deadline suggest that compromise on both sides is likely. Let's hope something is decided soon because the prospect of inflicting a no-deal on a nation stumbling out of a second lockdown is as Widget said earlier, utter madness. The situation in respect of new deals ( with the likes of Kenya) is completely different from trying to escape an organisation whose aim is political and economic union. Indeed a trade deal could be simple, if it was just about trade....for the EU it isn't. Depends what the " compromise " is....its is unacceptable to expect a country to compromise its independence and Sovereignty.....I could not see Australia or the USA doing that, could you?
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Nov 3, 2020 22:25:38 GMT
Well it was you who said you wanted the EU to keep it simple and do the same as we have done with Kenya and roll over the existing EU deal. But you don't actually want that, you want Canada-style. So it's not the same. What do I want? I want the best deal the UK can get , but accept there will need to be compromises. The fact that talks are continuing weeks after Johnson's deadline suggest that compromise on both sides is likely. Let's hope something is decided soon because the prospect of inflicting a no-deal on a nation stumbling out of a second lockdown is as Widget said earlier, utter madness. The situation in respect of new deals ( with the likes of Kenya) is completely different from trying to escape an organisation whose aim is political and economic union. Indeed a trade deal could be simple, if it was just about trade....for the EU it isn't. Depends what the " compromise " is....its is unacceptable to expect a country to compromise its independence and Sovereignty.....I could not see Australia or the USA doing that, could you? Surely we have already 'escaped' the EU? I very much doubt that the talks taking place at the moment are driven by the EU trying to achieve political and economic union with the UK and are in fact pretty much about the future trading relationship with the UK. We have signed a trade deal with Japan which has rules. When we sign one with the US it will have rules. If we have one with the EU it will have rules, although to some the perception of 'rules with the EU' invariably translates into 'loss of sovereignty'.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 3, 2020 23:09:36 GMT
The situation in respect of new deals ( with the likes of Kenya) is completely different from trying to escape an organisation whose aim is political and economic union. Indeed a trade deal could be simple, if it was just about trade....for the EU it isn't. Depends what the " compromise " is....its is unacceptable to expect a country to compromise its independence and Sovereignty.....I could not see Australia or the USA doing that, could you? Surely we have already 'escaped' the EU? I very much doubt that the talks taking place at the moment are driven by the EU trying to achieve political and economic union with the UK and are in fact pretty much about the future trading relationship with the UK. We have signed a trade deal with Japan which has rules. When we sign one with the US it will have rules. If we have one with the EU it will have rules, although to some the perception of 'rules with the EU' invariably translates into 'loss of sovereignty'. I hope that you are right in your first paragraph. Second paragraph...it depends upon what the rules are and if they respect the sovereignty, freedom and independence if each party. All " rules" aren't of the same type, nature and don't serve the same purpose. Sometimes two parties cannot agree the rules, they don't have to.
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Post by mrcoke on Nov 3, 2020 23:32:41 GMT
The situation in respect of new deals ( with the likes of Kenya) is completely different from trying to escape an organisation whose aim is political and economic union. Indeed a trade deal could be simple, if it was just about trade....for the EU it isn't. Depends what the " compromise " is....its is unacceptable to expect a country to compromise its independence and Sovereignty.....I could not see Australia or the USA doing that, could you? Surely we have already 'escaped' the EU? I very much doubt that the talks taking place at the moment are driven by the EU trying to achieve political and economic union with the UK and are in fact pretty much about the future trading relationship with the UK. We have signed a trade deal with Japan which has rules. When we sign one with the US it will have rules. If we have one with the EU it will have rules, although to some the perception of 'rules with the EU' invariably translates into 'loss of sovereignty'. We have "left" the EU in that we are no longer a member and have lost many members privileges, such as being in the Council and having MEPs in the EU parliament, but my understanding is we are in an exit transition period where we still enjoy free trade and travel (Covid19 regulations permitting) and most importantly we are still subject to the European Court of Justice rulings. Under the presently proposed terms of the future trade agreement the EU are still seeking to tie the UK to the European Court and agree to implement rules/laws at their behest on such matters as financial aid to business, despite the fact that the vast majority of UK companies do not sell to the EU. I can fully go along with the idea that we agree to give access to UK waters for EU to fish as part of a trade agreement, but not the concept that the Eu Court will arbitrate and enforce any agreement. The Eu Court has no rights to impose rulings on Canada or Japan. The EU is a bullying organization www.seafoodsource.com/news/environment-sustainability/iceland-accuses-eu-norway-of-bullyingWhen the UK invoked article 50 to leave, the European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker and others claimed that the UK is legally prevented while it remains an EU member from formally negotiating and concluding post-exit trade agreements with non-member countries till the UK had left the EU. This was despite the fact that Switzerland, which has a free trade agreement with the EU, have been free to negotiate trade deals with none EU countries. The duplicity of the EU beggars belief. Thankfully our government ignored them and got on with negotiations.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Nov 5, 2020 8:04:56 GMT
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