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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 28, 2020 8:48:11 GMT
I'm sure we can come to an agreement on fishing. The UK will continue to allow EU member states access at levels as currently agreed. BUT 1.Quotas will be reviewed annually unilaterally by the UK 2.Fishing practices will be subject to UK law (factory ships, bottom scouring) 3.Fishing stocks will be monitored by the UK and appropriate safeguards put in place as necessary 4.The EU will pay an annual access fee to the UK starting in £13bn in the first year and reviewed annually in line with quota allocations. What's wrong with that? Plus , in my opinion Clayton, alongside a policy if building up the UK fishing fleets and reducing the trawlers from France and Holland.....eco friendly and sustainable.
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Post by wagsastokie on Jul 28, 2020 9:14:16 GMT
I'm sure we can come to an agreement on fishing. The UK will continue to allow EU member states access at levels as currently agreed. BUT 1.Quotas will be reviewed annually unilaterally by the UK 2.Fishing practices will be subject to UK law (factory ships, bottom scouring) 3.Fishing stocks will be monitored by the UK and appropriate safeguards put in place as necessary 4.The EU will pay an annual access fee to the UK starting in £13bn in the first year and reviewed annually in line with quota allocations. What's wrong with that? Absolutely nothing as long as the navy are willing to impound any vessels that break the agreement
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 28, 2020 9:39:38 GMT
Fishing is an interesting one, Eustice has already signalled a move away from annual unilateral reviews and Boris has already pushed the negotiations into Autumn, despite "being adamant" that won't happen:
UK and EU could agree 'multi-annual' Brexit deals for some fishing rights Hint that UK could soften demand for annual negotiations over fishing opportunities is latest sign compromise deal could be found
Britain could forgo annual negotiations with the EU over fishing opportunities for some types of fish, the Environment Secretary said on Wednesday in the latest sign that a deal over British waters could be edging closer.
George Eustice's comments will be closely scrutinised by Brussels for hints at a future compromise on fishing rights, one of the major issues preventing a UK-EU free trade agreement before the end of year deadline.
The UK has demanded a Norway-style fishing deal with annual negotiations over fishing opportunities after the end of the Brexit transition period on December 31.
The EU is ready to drop its demand that its boats retain status quo access to UK waters as if Brexit never happened, but insists any deal must be for the long term rather than renegotiated every year.
Mr Eustice told a House of Lords Select Committee: "It's not uncommon for there to be a multi-annual agreement, but not necessarily on all stocks [...] it can happen on individual stocks."
He said the EU already had a multi-annual agreement on mackerel that covers Norway, the Faroes and the EU.
Michel Barnier, the EU's chief negotiator, has warned that Norway only has a handful of shared fish stocks to negotiate with the EU each year but the UK has more than 100 different shared fish species.
He has ruled out annual negotiations on fishing opportunities but suggested the UK and EU could discuss fishing stocks "every year in the light of the scientific advice, so that we can protect resources and biodiversity".
The UK wants the new agreement to be based on the zonal attachment method for calculating fishing opportunities. Zonal attachment is a scientific method that reflects where fish are better than the historic catch patterns, dating back to the 1970s, that form the basis of the EU's Common Fisheries Policy.
Mr Barnier has said the EU could accept an element of zonal attachment if combined with factors such as ancient fishing rights and the impact on coastal communities.
"I think they [the European Commission] are starting to understand that the starting point isn't the Common Fisheries Policy," Mr Eustice said. "The starting point is that we are an independent coastal state."
The two sides were still "some way" from being able to sketch out a landing zone for a final agreement, the Tory MP for Camborne and Redruth told peers.
Mr Barnier met David Frost, his UK counterpart, for a dinner of halibut in Downing Street on Tuesday night. Before the meeting, Mr Barnier said the EU was willing to be "creative" to break the deadlock.
On Wednesday, he said he had a "nice dinner" and "useful discussion" with Mr Frost. He said negotiators were "working hard for a fair agreement" as further talks on fishing were held in London.
Mr Barnier has said that the fishing agreement must be part of the free trade deal, but the UK wants it to be a separate treaty.
The EU negotiator has warned that, without a fisheries agreement, there will be no trade deal at all. If the UK and EU fail to finalise trade negotiations before the end of the year, both sides will be forced to trade on less lucrative WTO terms, which include quotas and tariffs.
Angela Merkel told the European Parliament on Wednesday that the EU should be prepared for a no trade deal exit after Boris Johnson told the German chancellor that Britain was "ready" to walk away without an agreement.
Mrs Merkel, whose country holds the rotating six-month EU presidency until the end of the year, said in Brussels: "I will continue to push for a good solution, but we should also prepare for a possible no-deal scenario."
"Progress in negotiations so far has been slim, to put it diplomatically. We've agreed with the United Kingdom to accelerate the pace of talks to reach an agreement by autumn, an agreement that could be ratified by the end of the year."
Mr Johnson has been adamant that he will not allow the discussions to drag on into the autumn, arguing that British businesses and citizens need certainty on the way forward before then.
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Post by nicholasjalcock on Jul 28, 2020 10:37:39 GMT
Can’t we just send ‘waga’ out in a dingy on the North Sea to count which fishes are on our side of the line? 😜
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Post by wagsastokie on Jul 28, 2020 11:45:23 GMT
Can’t we just send ‘waga’ out in a dingy on the North Sea to count which fishes are on our side of the line? 😜 Id rather have a torpedo boat with plenty of ammo I can't see why anyone on this board would be against a fully independent fisheries policy based on sustainability and the environment Or do they support the Dutch indiscriminate electric shock fishing and other methods currently being used by various European countries
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 28, 2020 11:49:25 GMT
Can’t we just send ‘waga’ out in a dingy on the North Sea to count which fishes are on our side of the line? 😜 Id rather have a torpedo boat with plenty of ammo I can't see why anyone on this board would be against a fully independent fisheries policy based on sustainability and the environment Or do they support the Dutch indiscriminate electric shock fishing and other methods currently being used by various European countries Not sure you're going to get a sustainable and environmentally friendly policy in any area of post-Brexit life, given that the Conservative Party keeps voting against precisely such tabled amendments to the Trade Bill etc...
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Post by wagsastokie on Jul 28, 2020 11:57:27 GMT
Id rather have a torpedo boat with plenty of ammo I can't see why anyone on this board would be against a fully independent fisheries policy based on sustainability and the environment A simple question if the only way we could achive a trade deal with the eu was to keep the status quo on fishing Would you want us to sign or not Or do they support the Dutch indiscriminate electric shock fishing and other methods currently being used by various European countries Not sure you're going to get a sustainable and environmentally friendly policy in any area of post-Brexit life, given that the Conservative Party keeps voting against precisely such tabled amendments to the Trade Bill etc... If the only way we could get a trade deal with the eu is to keep the current deal on fisheries Would you sign it yes or no
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 28, 2020 12:45:43 GMT
How can anyone answer that based on the absence of any details of the trade deal you're assuming would then be in place?
I may as well ask you would you accept the kind of fisheries deal you would like to see if it meant accepting any old trade deal...
We'll need to wait for the details on all aspects to see if the Brexiteers' promises have been upheld or not.
I'll repeat what I've said previously - I think some kind of compromise on both sides is likely, which each side will then try to sell as a big success. I don't anticipate a no-deal scenario, but it depends on whether the Bluffer can sell the inevitable compromises to the hardliners in the Tory Party.
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Post by nicholasjalcock on Jul 28, 2020 12:57:01 GMT
How can anyone answer that based on the absence of any details of the trade deal you're assuming would then be in place? I may as well ask you would you accept the kind of fisheries deal you would like to see if it meant accepting any old trade deal... We'll need to wait for the details on all aspects to see if the Brexiteers' promises have been upheld or not. I'll repeat what I've said previously - I think some kind of compromise on both sides is likely, which each side will then try to sell as a big success. I don't anticipate a no-deal scenario, but it depends on whether the Bluffer can sell the inevitable compromises to the hardliners in the Tory Party. Aren’t the EU saying fisheries would have to be an integral part of a trade deal? The logic of this is that if we infringe the fishing agreement this would automatically negate everything else?
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Post by wagsastokie on Jul 28, 2020 14:38:30 GMT
How can anyone answer that based on the absence of any details of the trade deal you're assuming would then be in place? I may as well ask you would you accept the kind of fisheries deal you would like to see if it meant accepting any old trade deal... We'll need to wait for the details on all aspects to see if the Brexiteers' promises have been upheld or not. I'll repeat what I've said previously - I think some kind of compromise on both sides is likely, which each side will then try to sell as a big success. I don't anticipate a no-deal scenario, but it depends on whether the Bluffer can sell the inevitable compromises to the hardliners in the Tory Party. Its quite simple to answer anything other than full UK control over its fisheries Than no deal You maybe willing to sell British fisherman and sealife down the river but I and many other leave voters are not
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Post by mrcoke on Jul 28, 2020 14:43:46 GMT
Not sure you're going to get a sustainable and environmentally friendly policy in any area of post-Brexit life, given that the Conservative Party keeps voting against precisely such tabled amendments to the Trade Bill etc... If the only way we could get a trade deal with the eu is to keep the current deal on fisheries Would you sign it yes or no My answer to that is a definite "no". We have left the EU and I am quite prepared for the EU to continue fishing British waters. The point here is sovereignty. They are British waters and under UK control. A commercial agreement can be anything within reason but the waters are now ours again and under UK law.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 28, 2020 15:18:57 GMT
How can anyone answer that based on the absence of any details of the trade deal you're assuming would then be in place? I may as well ask you would you accept the kind of fisheries deal you would like to see if it meant accepting any old trade deal... We'll need to wait for the details on all aspects to see if the Brexiteers' promises have been upheld or not. I'll repeat what I've said previously - I think some kind of compromise on both sides is likely, which each side will then try to sell as a big success. I don't anticipate a no-deal scenario, but it depends on whether the Bluffer can sell the inevitable compromises to the hardliners in the Tory Party. Its quite simple to answer anything other than full UK control over its fisheries Than no deal You maybe willing to sell British fisherman and sealife down the river but I and many other leave voters are not I believe you. And this is why you should keep checking to see whether your leaders are keeping to their promises, which is exactly what I'm doing, despite some strange folk insisting it's time to move on and let it go and just accept it and don't bother looking into what's actually about to be delivered! I don't get that approach myself, but I suspect it's about being worried they'll not get what they thought they were getting or were promised and would rather not contemplate it or have anyone look into it too closely.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 28, 2020 15:20:23 GMT
How can anyone answer that based on the absence of any details of the trade deal you're assuming would then be in place? I may as well ask you would you accept the kind of fisheries deal you would like to see if it meant accepting any old trade deal... We'll need to wait for the details on all aspects to see if the Brexiteers' promises have been upheld or not. I'll repeat what I've said previously - I think some kind of compromise on both sides is likely, which each side will then try to sell as a big success. I don't anticipate a no-deal scenario, but it depends on whether the Bluffer can sell the inevitable compromises to the hardliners in the Tory Party. Aren’t the EU saying fisheries would have to be an integral part of a trade deal? The logic of this is that if we infringe the fishing agreement this would automatically negate everything else? Yes, so far, they aren't allowing it as a separate deal in itself.
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Post by Clayton Wood on Jul 28, 2020 16:08:43 GMT
Its quite simple to answer anything other than full UK control over its fisheries Than no deal You maybe willing to sell British fisherman and sealife down the river but I and many other leave voters are not I believe you. And this is why you should keep checking to see whether your leaders are keeping to their promises, which is exactly what I'm doing, despite some strange folk insisting it's time to move on and let it go and just accept it and don't bother looking into what's actually about to be delivered! I don't get that approach myself, but I suspect it's about being worried they'll not get what they thought they were getting or were promised and would rather not contemplate it or have anyone look into it too closely. Point of order: they're your leaders too. Like it, lump it or emigrate to the golden land.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 28, 2020 17:39:42 GMT
I believe you. And this is why you should keep checking to see whether your leaders are keeping to their promises, which is exactly what I'm doing, despite some strange folk insisting it's time to move on and let it go and just accept it and don't bother looking into what's actually about to be delivered! I don't get that approach myself, but I suspect it's about being worried they'll not get what they thought they were getting or were promised and would rather not contemplate it or have anyone look into it too closely. Point of order: they're your leaders too. Like it, lump it or emigrate to the golden land. And this is why we should keep checking to see whether our leaders are keeping to their promises, which is exactly what I'm doing, despite some strange folk insisting it's time to move on and let it go and just accept it and don't bother looking into what's actually about to be delivered!
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 28, 2020 17:53:32 GMT
Point of order: they're your leaders too. Like it, lump it or emigrate to the golden land. And this is why we should keep checking to see whether our leaders are keeping to their promises, which is exactly what I'm doing, despite some strange folk insisting it's time to move on and let it go and just accept it and don't bother looking into what's actually about to be delivered! Yes let's hope that the government delivers Brexit.....it's not doing badly so far....let's hope that they are true to their word and don't let the British public, particularly the working class, down.
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Post by Clayton Wood on Jul 28, 2020 18:03:07 GMT
Point of order: they're your leaders too. Like it, lump it or emigrate to the golden land. And this is why we should keep checking to see whether our leaders are keeping to their promises, which is exactly what I'm doing, despite some strange folk insisting it's time to move on and let it go and just accept it and don't bother looking into what's actually about to be delivered! Posting on a football message board checks nothing. Voting in a GE or referendum does. Still, if the Rich Ponce of Bell End is still running the Tory Lite Labour Party in 4 years time you can have another check then.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 29, 2020 6:40:23 GMT
And this is why we should keep checking to see whether our leaders are keeping to their promises, which is exactly what I'm doing, despite some strange folk insisting it's time to move on and let it go and just accept it and don't bother looking into what's actually about to be delivered! Posting on a football message board checks nothing. Voting in a GE or referendum does. Still, if the Rich Ponce of Bell End is still running the Tory Lite Labour Party in 4 years time you can have another check then. Righto, we'll all just ignore everything the government does in the five years between elections then... ...you can if it helps you to keep thinking they're doing a great job and voting the way you do, burying one's head in the sand will certainly make it easier to do so! I'll keep on seeing how many of their pledges and promises they're breaking in the meantime and look forward to your absence from this and all other political threads until 2024
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 29, 2020 6:55:05 GMT
Posting on a football message board checks nothing. Voting in a GE or referendum does. Still, if the Rich Ponce of Bell End is still running the Tory Lite Labour Party in 4 years time you can have another check then. Righto, we'll all just ignore everything the government does in the five years between elections then... ...you can if it helps you to keep thinking they're doing a great job and voting the way you do, burying one's head in the sand will certainly make it easier to do so! I'll keep on seeing how many of their pledges and promises they're breaking in the meantime. See you in 2024. You are deliberately mixing up the long term effects of Brexit with the more immediate implementation of the referendum result. Two completely different developments. We are simply in the middle of negotiations at the moment and won't know the true result until the end of the year. I suspect that you hope that Brexit is not properly delivered to give you some comfort in losing the Brexit debate, although you claim to have not understood the referendum question and voted to leave. The fight for democracy and independence is not a once and for all issue in any case, as the political resistance to the referendum result has shown.....the brains of the EU behind the treaties were correct...Ever closer union...is an ongoing process, a project..... our escape has been unnecessarily long drawn out. If we do not achieve a deal by 31 December we operate under WTO rules....it's not the end of our relationship with the EU, just the beginning of the next chapter. There's nothing stopping both parties continuing negotiations over years if necessary to achieve a good trading relationship....if that's what they genuinely want....it is certainly better for the uk to leave without " a deal" rather than having a bad deal.....May was right in what she said , even if she did not mean it. Anyway as long as it makes you feel better that you've ' won" something and the ordinary Brexiteer folk have lost.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 31, 2020 21:12:41 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2020 21:14:11 GMT
What about your mate Claire Fox as well John?
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 31, 2020 21:26:39 GMT
What about your mate Claire Fox as well John? And Gisela Stuart ( not sure that I agree with peerages and I would abolish the house of Lords, but there you go).
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Post by maxplonk on Aug 3, 2020 19:26:03 GMT
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Post by sheikhmomo on Aug 3, 2020 22:20:56 GMT
The absolute brass neck of these shit rats
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Post by maxplonk on Aug 4, 2020 12:23:14 GMT
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Post by wagsastokie on Aug 4, 2020 13:42:04 GMT
Perfectly fine as long as they don't come crawling back when they become ill or to old and need care
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Aug 4, 2020 13:50:33 GMT
Perfectly fine as long as they don't come crawling back when they become ill or to old and need care England for the English! But not all the English! Only those who have not had the temerity to go abroad for a bit!
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Post by wagsastokie on Aug 4, 2020 13:58:59 GMT
Perfectly fine as long as they don't come crawling back when they become ill or to old and need care England for the English! But not all the English! Only those who have not had the temerity to go abroad for a bit! So you think it's perfectly acceptable for them piss off abroad for there own benefit or because of principles Knowing full well that good old blighty will come to the rescue when life gets hard or goes to shit Smacks to me of typical remain hypocrisy Wanting there cake and eating it then expect someone to buy another
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Aug 4, 2020 14:19:32 GMT
England for the English! But not all the English! Only those who have not had the temerity to go abroad for a bit! So you think it's perfectly acceptable for them piss off abroad for there own benefit or because of principles Knowing full well that good old blighty will come to the rescue when life gets hard or goes to shit Smacks to me of typical remain hypocrisy Wanting there cake and eating it then expect someone to buy another I think it's acceptable for people to move somewhere for a better life, yes. That might be moving out of their parent's house, moving to a neighbouring town, or, god forbid, moving out of the country. Have you moved anywhere by the way? If so, did you do it for the benefit of everyone else or for yourself?
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Post by wagsastokie on Aug 4, 2020 16:04:34 GMT
So you think it's perfectly acceptable for them piss off abroad for there own benefit or because of principles Knowing full well that good old blighty will come to the rescue when life gets hard or goes to shit Smacks to me of typical remain hypocrisy Wanting there cake and eating it then expect someone to buy another I think it's acceptable for people to move somewhere for a better life, yes. That might be moving out of their parent's house, moving to a neighbouring town, or, god forbid, moving out of the country. Have you moved anywhere by the way? If so, did you do it for the benefit of everyone else or for yourself? Yes I moved to Norfolk twenty odd years ago For the benefit of my four sons I was bringing up on my own so I have answerd your question Now how about answer mine do you think it is acceptable for people to flee the country because they don't like the result of a democratic vote Then when things start going wrong crawl back and expect the public services to bale them out of the shit A simple yes or no will suffice if you can get that close to a answer
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