|
Post by wagsastokie on Jun 29, 2020 16:52:03 GMT
Maths: 17,410,742 * 0.34 = 5,919,652 (racially prejudiced people who voted leave) 16,141,241 * 0.18 = 2,905,423 (racially prejudiced people who voted remain) 5,919,652 + 2,905,423 = 8,825,075 (total number of racially prejudiced voters) 2,905,423 / 8,825,075 = 0.329 ≈ 33% (% of total prejudiced voters who voted remain). Apologies. My estimated figure was out by 3%. My guess is that this figure should probably be increased slightly to account for the unconscious racism inherent in preferring a system in which immigration from a predominantly white area (Europe) is favoured to immigration from other parts of the world. Fair enough. So two thirds of racially prejudiced people voted Leave, one third voted Remain. I'll happily change my opinion to most racists voted Leave. And I'll happily point out that over 33% of racists voted remain
|
|
|
Post by sheikhmomo on Jun 29, 2020 17:20:43 GMT
Mark Foie Gras is just a jumped up tit, John. What an embarrassment to this country he is. I think the letter is translated perfectly below.
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Jun 29, 2020 17:53:45 GMT
Mark Foie Gras is just a jumped up tit, John. What an embarrassment to this country he is. I think the letter is translated perfectly below. The way I see it now Sheik is like any agreement between two parties. If we can agree to the satisfaction of each , great, both should be pleased. If we can't, so be it. Perhaps have limited agreements in sectors where we can agree. Where I agree with Francois, I don't think that the EU should try to treat us any differently than they would any other independent, sovereign country....which I think that they will find difficult, in my opinion.
|
|
|
Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jun 30, 2020 10:17:52 GMT
Fair enough. So two thirds of racially prejudiced people voted Leave, one third voted Remain. I'll happily change my opinion to most racists voted Leave. And I'll happily point out that over 33% of racists voted remain Fair enough, so most racists voted Leave and some voted Remain.
|
|
|
Post by longdistancekiddie on Jun 30, 2020 10:30:56 GMT
Ass boris took control of this, he said he was going to,?
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 1, 2020 8:33:33 GMT
|
|
|
Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 1, 2020 8:38:47 GMT
Well, in three or four years time we'll be able to assess whether leaving has been a good thing or a bad thing and whether everything that was promised has been delivered and come to fruition...
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 1, 2020 8:45:16 GMT
Well, in three or four years time we'll be able to assess whether leaving has been a good thing or a bad thing and whether everything that was promised has been delivered and come to fruition... Life's not really like that. No one knows where we would be if we had decided to stay in. You make your decisions and get on with it. You can keep analysing it for the rest of your life if you want, but we , as a country, voted to leave. Try to come to terms with it.
|
|
|
Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 1, 2020 9:01:07 GMT
Holding leaders' promises to account is an essential part of any democratic process. I'd suggest it forms the basis of why people choose to vote the way they do, excepting those who blindly do so on tribalist grounds.
You can ignore it and just get on with things if you wish, I think it's more sensible to see whether what was promised is delivered and what impact it's had on the country, if any, positive or negative. That won't be too hard to fathom based on the promises that were made.
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 1, 2020 9:24:15 GMT
Holding leaders' promises to account is an essential part of any democratic process. I'd suggest it forms the basis of why people choose to vote the way they do, excepting those who blindly do so on tribalist grounds. You can ignore it and just get on with things if you wish, I think it's more sensible to see whether what was promised is delivered and what impact it's had on the country, if any, positive or negative. That won't be too hard to fathom based on the promises that were made. Aye, in 4 years time it will be 8 years after the vote, longer after the beginnings of the campaigns. Good luck with that. Let's hope that you remember to judge the EU leaders ar the same time on their promises, Let's hope that they've done ok for the youth of Spain , Greece and Italy, and Albania have joined. I don't know if you realise but some things intervene in the journey of life,for instance I don't know if you know, I think that we are dealing with a global pandemic that has affected countries' futures' slightly. The main promise that the British public voted for was that the UK should be an independent sovereign, democratic country and to leave the organisation that wants ever closer union. Which other promises do you refer to?
|
|
|
Post by mrcoke on Jul 1, 2020 9:30:15 GMT
Well, in three or four years time we'll be able to assess whether leaving has been a good thing or a bad thing and whether everything that was promised has been delivered and come to fruition... I think that is way off the mark. Firstly there is the effect of the pandemic, which could last longer than the 2008 financial crisis, after which we had a decade of austerity. Putting that aside, it will take a generation IMO for the full effects of leaving the EU to work through our society and economy. In an earlier post I quoted the example of how after we joined the EEC for the next 20 years industry gradually moved south with the closure of northern industry and creation of new industry in the south east and along the M4 corridor to be close to the Channel Tunnel and Felixstowe. This was a slow evolution, which will be equally slow in reverse. It will take time as we gradually move our food supply away from subsidised European supply to the world market. Hopefully we will gradually reduce our dependence on European goods like German cars, Italian white goods and furniture, etc. and spread our imports. We should grow our high tech industries like finance, pharmaceuticals, IT and be more self sufficient. Above all we are now released from being locked in to the ever closer union, Brussels bureaucracy, and nonsense like part time parliament in Strasbourg.
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 1, 2020 9:38:32 GMT
Well, in three or four years time we'll be able to assess whether leaving has been a good thing or a bad thing and whether everything that was promised has been delivered and come to fruition... I think that is way off the mark. Firstly there is the effect of the pandemic, which could last longer than the 2008 financial crisis, after which we had a decade of austerity. Putting that aside, it will take a generation IMO for the full effects of leaving the EU to work through our society and economy. In an earlier post I quoted the example of how after we joined the EEC for the next 20 years industry gradually moved south with the closure of northern industry and creation of new industry in the south east and along the M4 corridor to be close to the Channel Tunnel and Felixstowe. This was a slow evolution, which will be equally slow in reverse. It will take time as we gradually move our food supply away from subsidised European supply to the world market. Hopefully we will gradually reduce our dependence on European goods like German cars, Italian white goods and furniture, etc. and spread our imports. We should grow our high tech industries like finance, pharmaceuticals, IT and be more self sufficient. Above all we are now released from being locked in to the ever closer union, Brussels bureaucracy, and nonsense like part time parliament in Strasbourg. Plus , as I know that you know , Mr C, the referendum was about being in or out of an organisation, the EU, nothing at all about deals or even trade.....no matter how much those who cannot accept the result and democracy have tried to undermine the result.
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 1, 2020 10:04:17 GMT
Holding leaders' promises to account is an essential part of any democratic process. I'd suggest it forms the basis of why people choose to vote the way they do, excepting those who blindly do so on tribalist grounds. You can ignore it and just get on with things if you wish, I think it's more sensible to see whether what was promised is delivered and what impact it's had on the country, if any, positive or negative. That won't be too hard to fathom based on the promises that were made. Will you be holding the EU's leaders to account? Which leaders specifically? And which promises specifically? Name a couple?....It actually makes few " promises" if any....it's on a mission for ever closer union towards a United States of Europe, and nothing is allowed to get in the way of that project, it cannot be challenged....because that is its very purpose.....it is not actually a true parliament, just an administration, but hey, don't let's look at it too closely, its the "EU", it must be ok. If we had not had the referendum the role, actions and costings of the bureaucracy would not have even been questioned....I suppose you agree with that, I wonder why?
|
|
|
Post by RipRoaringPotter on Jul 1, 2020 10:50:36 GMT
Holding leaders' promises to account is an essential part of any democratic process. I'd suggest it forms the basis of why people choose to vote the way they do, excepting those who blindly do so on tribalist grounds. You can ignore it and just get on with things if you wish, I think it's more sensible to see whether what was promised is delivered and what impact it's had on the country, if any, positive or negative. That won't be too hard to fathom based on the promises that were made. Will you be holding the EU's leaders to account? Which leaders specifically? And which promises specifically? Name a couple?....It actually makes few " promises" if any....it's on a mission for ever closer union towards a United States of Europe, and nothing is allowed to get in the way of that project, it cannot be challenged....because that is its very purpose.....it is not actually a true parliament, just an administration, but hey, don't let's look at it too closely, its the "EU", it must be ok. If we had not had the referendum the role, actions and costings of the bureaucracy would not have even been questioned....I suppose you agree with that, I wonder why? We can't hold the leaders of the EU to account as we are not part of the EU. When we were a part of the EU, we could've held them to account by electing anti-EU politicians into the EU parliament. And if enough of the continent agreed with us then ever closer union would be halted, slowed, delayed or reversed. But as I've said before, time to accept that Leave won, we've left the EU, and they no longer affect us any more than other foreign countries or organisations do. Lets move on.
|
|
|
Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 1, 2020 10:53:34 GMT
Well, in three or four years time we'll be able to assess whether leaving has been a good thing or a bad thing and whether everything that was promised has been delivered and come to fruition... I think that is way off the mark. Firstly there is the effect of the pandemic, which could last longer than the 2008 financial crisis, after which we had a decade of austerity. Putting that aside, it will take a generation IMO for the full effects of leaving the EU to work through our society and economy. In an earlier post I quoted the example of how after we joined the EEC for the next 20 years industry gradually moved south with the closure of northern industry and creation of new industry in the south east and along the M4 corridor to be close to the Channel Tunnel and Felixstowe. This was a slow evolution, which will be equally slow in reverse. It will take time as we gradually move our food supply away from subsidised European supply to the world market. Hopefully we will gradually reduce our dependence on European goods like German cars, Italian white goods and furniture, etc. and spread our imports. We should grow our high tech industries like finance, pharmaceuticals, IT and be more self sufficient. Above all we are now released from being locked in to the ever closer union, Brussels bureaucracy, and nonsense like part time parliament in Strasbourg. Three or four years was BJR's assessment of how long we'd need to wait to see the effects of leaving! I agree that Covid-19 is a handy thing to hang any harm the country is about to suffer on. Unfortunately, it'll also now provide a convenient 'go-to blame destination' whenever any damage is identified, which is nothing if not ironic given that the phrase "everything is the fault of Brexit" was a much repeated refrain aimed at Remainers whenever any negative aspect of Brexit was identified!
|
|
|
Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 1, 2020 10:54:26 GMT
Will you be holding the EU's leaders to account? Which leaders specifically? And which promises specifically? Name a couple?....It actually makes few " promises" if any....it's on a mission for ever closer union towards a United States of Europe, and nothing is allowed to get in the way of that project, it cannot be challenged....because that is its very purpose.....it is not actually a true parliament, just an administration, but hey, don't let's look at it too closely, its the "EU", it must be ok. If we had not had the referendum the role, actions and costings of the bureaucracy would not have even been questioned....I suppose you agree with that, I wonder why? We can't hold the leaders of the EU to account as we are not part of the EU. When we were a part of the EU, we could've held them to account by electing anti-EU politicians into the EU parliament. And if enough of the continent agreed with us then ever closer union would be halted, slowed, delayed or reversed. But as I've said before, time to accept that Remain won, we've left the EU, and they no longer affect us any more than other foreign countries or organisations do. Lets move on.
|
|
|
Post by RipRoaringPotter on Jul 1, 2020 10:56:51 GMT
We can't hold the leaders of the EU to account as we are not part of the EU. When we were a part of the EU, we could've held them to account by electing anti-EU politicians into the EU parliament. And if enough of the continent agreed with us then ever closer union would be halted, slowed, delayed or reversed. But as I've said before, time to accept that Remain won, we've left the EU, and they no longer affect us any more than other foreign countries or organisations do. Lets move on. Haha. Ooops. Just changed it now.
|
|
|
Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 1, 2020 10:58:10 GMT
Holding leaders' promises to account is an essential part of any democratic process. I'd suggest it forms the basis of why people choose to vote the way they do, excepting those who blindly do so on tribalist grounds. You can ignore it and just get on with things if you wish, I think it's more sensible to see whether what was promised is delivered and what impact it's had on the country, if any, positive or negative. That won't be too hard to fathom based on the promises that were made. Will you be holding the EU's leaders to account? Which leaders specifically? And which promises specifically? Name a couple?....It actually makes few " promises" if any....it's on a mission for ever closer union towards a United States of Europe, and nothing is allowed to get in the way of that project, it cannot be challenged....because that is its very purpose.....it is not actually a true parliament, just an administration, but hey, don't let's look at it too closely, its the "EU", it must be ok. If we had not had the referendum the role, actions and costings of the bureaucracy would not have even been questioned....I suppose you agree with that, I wonder why? Why would I? This country, which I live in, will not be part of the EU. Why would I hold their leaders to account when the decisions which affect this country are made solely in this country when we have "regained our sovereignty". I might have regard to what's going on over there, but they will be making decisions for the EU not for the benefit of the UK. Lovely straw man demonstration at the end there!
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 1, 2020 11:02:27 GMT
I think that is way off the mark. Firstly there is the effect of the pandemic, which could last longer than the 2008 financial crisis, after which we had a decade of austerity. Putting that aside, it will take a generation IMO for the full effects of leaving the EU to work through our society and economy. In an earlier post I quoted the example of how after we joined the EEC for the next 20 years industry gradually moved south with the closure of northern industry and creation of new industry in the south east and along the M4 corridor to be close to the Channel Tunnel and Felixstowe. This was a slow evolution, which will be equally slow in reverse. It will take time as we gradually move our food supply away from subsidised European supply to the world market. Hopefully we will gradually reduce our dependence on European goods like German cars, Italian white goods and furniture, etc. and spread our imports. We should grow our high tech industries like finance, pharmaceuticals, IT and be more self sufficient. Above all we are now released from being locked in to the ever closer union, Brussels bureaucracy, and nonsense like part time parliament in Strasbourg. Three or four years was BJR's assessment of how long we'd need to wait to see the effects of leaving! I agree that Covid-19 is a handy thing to hang any harm the country is about to suffer on. Unfortunately, it'll also now provide a convenient 'go-to blame destination' whenever any damage is identified, which is nothing if not ironic given that the phrase "everything is the fault of Brexit" was a much repeated refrain aimed at Remainers whenever any negative aspect of Brexit was identified! You introduced 3 or 4 years. I agree with MrC, politics like life changes all the time. When one route is taken, so be it. It is difficult to compare it with what would have happened if a different route had been taken....particularly if other factors come into play
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 1, 2020 11:04:03 GMT
Will you be holding the EU's leaders to account? Which leaders specifically? And which promises specifically? Name a couple?....It actually makes few " promises" if any....it's on a mission for ever closer union towards a United States of Europe, and nothing is allowed to get in the way of that project, it cannot be challenged....because that is its very purpose.....it is not actually a true parliament, just an administration, but hey, don't let's look at it too closely, its the "EU", it must be ok. If we had not had the referendum the role, actions and costings of the bureaucracy would not have even been questioned....I suppose you agree with that, I wonder why? Why would I? This country, which I live in, will not be part of the EU. Why would I hold their leaders to account when the decisions which affect this country are made solely in this country when we have "regained our sovereignty". I might have regard to what's going on over there, but they will be making decisions for the EU not for the benefit of the UK. Lovely straw man demonstration at the end there! We have never held the EU to account in their decion making in the way that you want to hold our parliament to account...(..and I say parliament because it is it that us tasjed with delivering the referendum result, not those who took part in the campaigns)
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 1, 2020 11:05:45 GMT
Will you be holding the EU's leaders to account? Which leaders specifically? And which promises specifically? Name a couple?....It actually makes few " promises" if any....it's on a mission for ever closer union towards a United States of Europe, and nothing is allowed to get in the way of that project, it cannot be challenged....because that is its very purpose.....it is not actually a true parliament, just an administration, but hey, don't let's look at it too closely, its the "EU", it must be ok. If we had not had the referendum the role, actions and costings of the bureaucracy would not have even been questioned....I suppose you agree with that, I wonder why? We can't hold the leaders of the EU to account as we are not part of the EU. When we were a part of the EU, we could've held them to account by electing anti-EU politicians into the EU parliament. And if enough of the continent agreed with us then ever closer union would be halted, slowed, delayed or reversed. But as I've said before, time to accept that Leave won, we've left the EU, and they no longer affect us any more than other foreign countries or organisations do. Lets move on. Except the purpose of the organisation is Ever closer union, so the only real way to go a different route is to leave or to dissolve it. And many of the adherents have signed up by stealth and without the express will ( sometimes against it/ French and Irish referendums) of its people. But That's great advice. Let's look forward positively to being an independent, sovereign country, having decided 4 years ago to leave the EU.
|
|
|
Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 1, 2020 11:17:19 GMT
Three or four years was BJR's assessment of how long we'd need to wait to see the effects of leaving! I agree that Covid-19 is a handy thing to hang any harm the country is about to suffer on. Unfortunately, it'll also now provide a convenient 'go-to blame destination' whenever any damage is identified, which is nothing if not ironic given that the phrase "everything is the fault of Brexit" was a much repeated refrain aimed at Remainers whenever any negative aspect of Brexit was identified! You introduced 3 or 4 years. I agree with MrC, politics like life changes all the time. When one route is taken, so be it. It is difficult to compare it with what would have happened if a different route had been taken....particularly if other factors come into play I really didn't Out of interest, how long do you think we should wait until it's no longer 'ridiculous' to scrutinise whether Leavers got what they voted for and if it's been a good thing or bad for the UK? I think that you are getting a bit confused between the date of the referendum result ( at which point Brexit has not occurred) and actually leaving the EU, at which point we start to reassert ourselves as a nation...I'd wait 3 or 4 years from that date....but regaining sovereignty is an ongoing process. Crack on. But if you want to now agree with MrCoke just like you agreed with the fact that most racists voted Leave once he'd said it that's fine. It's all a bit "I agree with Nick" but changing one's mind is entirely fair enough
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 1, 2020 11:30:07 GMT
You introduced 3 or 4 years. I agree with MrC, politics like life changes all the time. When one route is taken, so be it. It is difficult to compare it with what would have happened if a different route had been taken....particularly if other factors come into play I really didn't Out of interest, how long do you think we should wait until it's no longer 'ridiculous' to scrutinise whether Leavers got what they voted for and if it's been a good thing or bad for the UK? I think that you are getting a bit confused between the date of the referendum result ( at which point Brexit has not occurred) and actually leaving the EU, at which point we start to reassert ourselves as a nation...I'd wait 3 or 4 years from that date....but regaining sovereignty is an ongoing process. Crack on. But if you want to now agree with MrCoke just like you agreed with the fact that most racists voted Leave once he'd said it that's fine. It's all a bit "I agree with Nick" but changing one's mind is entirely fair enough I'd like to see the full quote of mine , if you can be bothered....but the bit that you have quoted clearly says that...we START to reassert ourselves AND " but( important word) regaining sovereignty is an ongoing process...I don't know if you can understand that. On the issue of racists I've been consistent and know what I believe, "liking" a post doesn't mean that you agree with everything, but I do tend to agree with MrC. On your obsession, racism, as you like people being in their labels , have you thought about my question....' Are you a racist ( you know one of those who voted Leave with yourself?)'
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 1, 2020 12:59:34 GMT
You introduced 3 or 4 years. I agree with MrC, politics like life changes all the time. When one route is taken, so be it. It is difficult to compare it with what would have happened if a different route had been taken....particularly if other factors come into play I really didn't Out of interest, how long do you think we should wait until it's no longer 'ridiculous' to scrutinise whether Leavers got what they voted for and if it's been a good thing or bad for the UK? I think that you are getting a bit confused between the date of the referendum result ( at which point Brexit has not occurred) and actually leaving the EU, at which point we start to reassert ourselves as a nation...I'd wait 3 or 4 years from that date....but regaining sovereignty is an ongoing process. Crack on. But if you want to now agree with MrCoke just like you agreed with the fact that most racists voted Leave once he'd said it that's fine. It's all a bit "I agree with Nick" but changing one's mind is entirely fair enough Another example of how you get your understanding completely wrong in your quest for division and argument and personal moral superiority..... I believe that most/ many who voted Leave would welcome this.....it wasn't about stopping immigration, full stop, it was about who controls immigration and illegal immigration/ asylum seeking. UK will open citizenship path for 3m Hong Kong citizens in retaliation to security law f7td5.app.goo.gl/QkBTw3
|
|
|
Post by wagsastokie on Jul 1, 2020 13:21:46 GMT
I really didn't But if you want to now agree with MrCoke just like you agreed with the fact that most racists voted Leave once he'd said it that's fine. It's all a bit "I agree with Nick" but changing one's mind is entirely fair enough Another example of how you get your understanding completely wrong in your quest for division and argument and personal moral superiority..... I believe that most/ many who voted Leave would welcome this.....it wasn't about stopping immigration, full stop, it was about who controls immigration and illegal immigration/ asylum seeking. UK will open citizenship path for 3m Hong Kong citizens in retaliation to security law f7td5.app.goo.gl/QkBTw3Well done Boris another shining example of how this country is going to be the beacon of multiculturalism And justice in the post Brexit world
|
|
|
Post by mrcoke on Jul 1, 2020 13:23:15 GMT
I think that is way off the mark. Firstly there is the effect of the pandemic, which could last longer than the 2008 financial crisis, after which we had a decade of austerity. Putting that aside, it will take a generation IMO for the full effects of leaving the EU to work through our society and economy. In an earlier post I quoted the example of how after we joined the EEC for the next 20 years industry gradually moved south with the closure of northern industry and creation of new industry in the south east and along the M4 corridor to be close to the Channel Tunnel and Felixstowe. This was a slow evolution, which will be equally slow in reverse. It will take time as we gradually move our food supply away from subsidised European supply to the world market. Hopefully we will gradually reduce our dependence on European goods like German cars, Italian white goods and furniture, etc. and spread our imports. We should grow our high tech industries like finance, pharmaceuticals, IT and be more self sufficient. Above all we are now released from being locked in to the ever closer union, Brussels bureaucracy, and nonsense like part time parliament in Strasbourg. Three or four years was BJR's assessment of how long we'd need to wait to see the effects of leaving! I agree that Covid-19 is a handy thing to hang any harm the country is about to suffer on. Unfortunately, it'll also now provide a convenient 'go-to blame destination' whenever any damage is identified, which is nothing if not ironic given that the phrase "everything is the fault of Brexit" was a much repeated refrain aimed at Remainers whenever any negative aspect of Brexit was identified! I never believed any politicians on Brexit promises, under in fact I fully expect an immediate adverse impact on the economy till we restructure and find new markets, make new trade agreements, etc. As bj says, the main reason to leave was sovereignty. I mention CO-19 as a fact, not an excuse. I actually expect the EU economy will be adversely impacted by the pandemic more than the UK. Italy and Greece's economies were already basket cases before the pandemic, and Germany will be bailing them out for decades. Germany was already in recession before the pandemic.* Other Mediterranean countries are going to have their tourist industries severely damaged, plus the higher cost of air travel and cruising. The EU have to tighten their budget and will do so all the more because of CO 19 effects. *7th Feb 2020: www.cnbc.com/2020/02/07/germany-recession-fears-grow-as-insdutrial-data-disappoints.html
|
|
|
Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 2, 2020 8:26:24 GMT
I really didn't But if you want to now agree with MrCoke just like you agreed with the fact that most racists voted Leave once he'd said it that's fine. It's all a bit "I agree with Nick" but changing one's mind is entirely fair enough I'd like to see the full quote of mine , if you can be bothered....but the bit that you have quoted clearly says that...we START to reassert ourselves AND " but( important word) regaining sovereignty is an ongoing process...I don't know if you can understand that. On the issue of racists I've been consistent and know what I believe, "liking" a post doesn't mean that you agree with everything, but I do tend to agree with MrC. On your obsession, racism, as you like people being in their labels , have you thought about my question....' Are you a racist ( you know one of those who voted Leave with yourself?)' That is the full quote That's where 3 or 4 years comes from, which you said I introduced! Of course you agree with MrCoke, he's a Brexiteer so if I say something you'll feel automatically inclined to take issue with it, if he says something (sometimes even making the same point I have eg the natural home of most racists is to vote Leave) suddenly you'll agree! Just pointing out the unthinking tribalism... Usual attempt at deflection/straw man again at the end there too!
|
|
|
Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 2, 2020 8:27:33 GMT
Another example of how you get your understanding completely wrong in your quest for division and argument and personal moral superiority..... I believe that most/ many who voted Leave would welcome this.....it wasn't about stopping immigration, full stop, it was about who controls immigration and illegal immigration/ asylum seeking. UK will open citizenship path for 3m Hong Kong citizens in retaliation to security law f7td5.app.goo.gl/QkBTw3Well done Boris another shining example of how this country is going to be the beacon of multiculturalism And justice in the post Brexit world Has Farage had anything to say about this yet? 3 million immigrants coming to our shores?
|
|
|
Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 2, 2020 8:32:52 GMT
Three or four years was BJR's assessment of how long we'd need to wait to see the effects of leaving! I agree that Covid-19 is a handy thing to hang any harm the country is about to suffer on. Unfortunately, it'll also now provide a convenient 'go-to blame destination' whenever any damage is identified, which is nothing if not ironic given that the phrase "everything is the fault of Brexit" was a much repeated refrain aimed at Remainers whenever any negative aspect of Brexit was identified! I never believed any politicians on Brexit promises, under in fact I fully expect an immediate adverse impact on the economy till we restructure and find new markets, make new trade agreements, etc. As bj says, the main reason to leave was sovereignty. I mention CO-19 as a fact, not an excuse. I actually expect the EU economy will be adversely impacted by the pandemic more than the UK. Italy and Greece's economies were already basket cases before the pandemic, and Germany will be bailing them out for decades. Germany was already in recession before the pandemic.* Other Mediterranean countries are going to have their tourist industries severely damaged, plus the higher cost of air travel and cruising. The EU have to tighten their budget and will do so all the more because of CO 19 effects. *7th Feb 2020: www.cnbc.com/2020/02/07/germany-recession-fears-grow-as-insdutrial-data-disappoints.htmlInteresting. The OECD tends to disagree but I guess we'll have to wait and see...could just be Project Fear all over again I suppose... UK economy is world’s biggest Covid-19 casualty, OECD warns Think tank calls for measures to ease jobs crisis as UK economy braces for an 11.5pc contraction this year By Russell Lynch, ECONOMICS EDITOR Daily Telegraph 10 June 2020 • 9:00am Britain will suffer a more devastating economic blow from Covid-19 than any other leading nation as output slumps by 11.5pc and up to 2.4 million jobs are lost, according to an alarming new forecast by experts. The estimated hit to growth is almost twice as sharp as the 6pc decline forecast globally as countries faces up to the biggest health and economic crisis since the Second World War. Details were released by the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development’s (OECD), ahead of monthly GDP figures expected to show a record 18pc tumble for the British economy during April. It leaves ministers open to attacks for allowing drastic economic damage from a lockdown which failed to prevent mass deaths. Laurence Boone, chief economist at the OECD, warned that the recovery is likely to be slow as countries struggle with the fear of a new wave of infections. She said: “As long as no vaccine or treatment is widely available, policymakers around the world will continue to walk on a tightrope.” If there is a disastrous second spike in Covid deaths, the UK economy would collapse by 14pc – the second-worst blow of all major nations except France, which would suffer a 14.1pc decline. As the number of Covid-19 infections heads towards 300,000 and deaths pass 40,000, the forecaster warned that the UK had been hit relatively hard by the outbreak. The scale of the economic blow set out is likely to sharpen the debate in Government about the pace of reopening the economy in a bid to boost employment and prevent deep scars that could take many years to heal. Bank of England Governor Andrew Bailey told a World Economic Forum seminar that there would be "elements of a faster recovery" as lockdown restrictions were gradually eased, but also warned of longer-term damage. He said: "We don’t know how much scarring there will be. I think it is reasonable to say there will be some but it is very hard to judge." In the OECD's “single wave” scenario, unemployment would surge to 9.1pc in 2020 – peaking at 11.7pc in late summer, meaning an extra 2.5 million unemployed – while the deficit would hit a peacetime record 12.4pc of GDP, putting immense strain on the public finances. If a second wave strikes, the deficit would hit an eye-watering 14.2pc of GDP, or £284bn. Jon Pareliussen, the OECD's UK economist, said: “The UK is among the hardest hit countries. There are several reasons for that – one is the economic structure because the UK is heavy on services so that makes it vulnerable to this virus. “It is also hard hit by the disease, which makes people adapt in their own right, and as a consequence of being hard hit by the disease the containment policies are also strict out of necessity.” The forecasts also suggest that the taxpayer-funded furlough scheme is unlikely to fully prevent a rise in unemployment. Although the economy overall is set to bounce back 9pc next year – its strongest growth in decades – it will remain 5pc below pre-crisis levels at the end of 2021 even without a second wave, the OECD added. The furlough scheme is due to end in October but should be revived if a second wave strikes, the think tank said. The latest forecasts are also based on a free-trade deal being agreed with the European Union, despite negotiations between the two sides apparently stalled over fishing rights and setting a “level playing field” on regulations. Failure to secure a deal would have a strongly negative effect on trade and jobs, the OECD claimed. Ministers should also consider easing the unemployment crisis by temporarily postponing further increases in the minimum wage so that firms can afford to employ more workers, the OECD said, while making longer term investment in digital infrastructure and green energy to boost growth. Ms Boone said: “We have previously called for a rise in public investment in digital and green technologies to promote long-term sustainable growth and lift demand in the short term. “This is even more urgent today with economies having been hit so hard.”
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 2, 2020 8:34:14 GMT
I'd like to see the full quote of mine , if you can be bothered....but the bit that you have quoted clearly says that...we START to reassert ourselves AND " but( important word) regaining sovereignty is an ongoing process...I don't know if you can understand that. On the issue of racists I've been consistent and know what I believe, "liking" a post doesn't mean that you agree with everything, but I do tend to agree with MrC. On your obsession, racism, as you like people being in their labels , have you thought about my question....' Are you a racist ( you know one of those who voted Leave with yourself?)' That is the full quote That's where 3 or 4 years comes from, which you said I introduced! Of course you agree with MrCoke, he's a Brexiteer so if I say something you'll feel automatically inclined to take issue with it, if he says something (sometimes even making the same point I have eg the natural home of most racists is to vote Leave) suddenly you'll agree! Just pointing out the unthinking tribalism... Usual attempt at deflection/straw man again at the end there too! Red, I don't know if you are aware but your attempts to get at the person , simply reflect upon yourself. It does make me wonder if you do have many personal relationships in the real world but that is something for you. I wouldn't try to over analyse things too much , I would not really think that too many people are interested on a message board.
|
|