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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jun 9, 2020 8:33:23 GMT
So it must make economic sense to Nissan at the moment to also have a plant in the UK, which is also in Europe. Are we rivals with Spain or colleagues? Business sense for the Renault/Nissan group Exactly, we do agree on some things then.....it must make sense for them to back Sunderland....at the moment. Do you consider us to be " colleagues" or rivals of Spain?
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Post by sheikhmomo on Jun 9, 2020 9:19:58 GMT
It makes you want to laugh.....or cry.
Some gullible fuckers about
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Post by wagsastokie on Jun 9, 2020 9:20:55 GMT
That's a good idea as all those citizens of Hong Kong will feel more at home after we have saved them from Chinese tyranny As for wto rules we should of been on that the week we voted leave and then started to negotiate a deal The Hong Kong citizens they let in will probably be the wealthy ones and a few as a token gesture. Would you be in favour of sending the fleet there to sort them out,?. It would have caused a lot of problems to have gone to WTO with next to no warnings. I personally would advocate a complete ban on Chinese goods untill such a time as China acts fully in accordance with the agreement over Hong Kong As for the WTO yes there would of been initial problems But by now we would more likely than not had a deal in place Businesses are more resilient than they are given credit for what has caused damage is uncertainty
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Post by mrcoke on Jun 9, 2020 9:55:51 GMT
1. The French support their industry via government owned banks. The Italians and Irish have consistently propped up their steel industries with loans to keep them going. (Irony of ironies the present government is propping up British Steel at Scunthorpe till it is sold to China. This is the first time I have known this in decades, when the industry was nationalised.) The Dutch give huge grants (up to 50%) to their industry to meet environmental regulations. The reason they give is to protect their water table. There is a coke plant in Germany built by a collaberation of coal, steel, and energy companies for their mutual benefit and avoid competition and ensure economic security for a generation. It was given approval by the German government after another huge German plant was dismantled and rebuilt in China, so as to protect German industry. 2. A German engineer wanted us to buy an excellant piece of German equipment for a plant I managed in Co.Durham. We said we could not buy it because it was not CE marked. The German engineer laughed and said that was only legislation the British slavishly follow. I have seen French plants blatantly ignoring safety legislation and was once asked by a French boss I had to cheat environmental legislation; I refused. I assume he was used to doing it on French plants as he got quite upset and threatened to sack me 3. UK regulations on machine guarding, electrical regulations, building regulations are far more onerous than many EU countries including France and Germany, putting our industry at a huge disadvantage. I once had a mobile plant delivered to the UK from a French works, but we could not use it because it did not remotely comply with UK safety legislation. It was sent back to France to return to work there. Lots of holes in this. There is no Irish steel industry. When we where dealers for German built machines we had a order in Africa. we had machines in stocks to ship so we asked the Germans to remove the EU emissions control systems etc. They said they would but only when the machine was in Africa, they would send a engineer there to do so. Just a couple of examples Having spent over 40 years of my working life in and around the European steel industry I beg to differ on the first point. Please read : www.irishtimes.com/business/new-name-as-irish-steel-sold-for-1-1.54447The Irish steel section mill used to be in direct competition with the Shelton mill in Stoke, making the same medium section products. Almost every year for about 17 years , the Irish government would subsidize their country's only steel mill, effectively selling at less than cost price and under mining any chance of Shelton making a satisfactory profit. In the end Shelton was closed by British Steel (or Corus) and another irony eventually the Irish mill was shut. I can't comment on your German machine experience only my own experiences. We all know about the deceit of VW don't we? Edit: Latest- www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52184229
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Post by longdistancekiddie on Jun 9, 2020 10:38:04 GMT
Lots of holes in this. There is no Irish steel industry. When we where dealers for German built machines we had a order in Africa. we had machines in stocks to ship so we asked the Germans to remove the EU emissions control systems etc. They said they would but only when the machine was in Africa, they would send a engineer there to do so. Just a couple of examples Having spent over 40 years of my working life in and around the European steel industry I beg to differ on the first point. Please read : www.irishtimes.com/business/new-name-as-irish-steel-sold-for-1-1.54447The Irish steel section mill used to be in direct competition with the Shelton mill in Stoke, making the same medium section products. Almost every year for about 17 years , the Irish government would subsidize their country's only steel mill, effectively selling at less than cost price and under mining any chance of Shelton making a satisfactory profit. In the end Shelton was closed by British Steel (or Corus) and another irony eventually the Irish mill was shut. I can't comment on your German machine experience only my own experiences. We all know about the deceit of VW don't we? The Irish mill has been closed for nearly twenty years, I thought that you where talking about recent events but you obviously know what you are talking about in the steel industry. I thought Shelton was subsidise by the UK government and that, that was one of the reasons they used to close it and moved production. A teacher at school was on the case and encourage us to get on the campaign to keep it open, he gave both sides of the story. Yes the Mill in Cork was sold to the Indian company Mittal for a pound who then ship out the plant and closed the mill leaving a contaminated mess that cost millions to process and clean up. Yes just telling you about my German experiences. And I was over in Germany fairly regularly at one time
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Post by longdistancekiddie on Jun 9, 2020 10:41:40 GMT
The Hong Kong citizens they let in will probably be the wealthy ones and a few as a token gesture. Would you be in favour of sending the fleet there to sort them out,?. It would have caused a lot of problems to have gone to WTO with next to no warnings. I personally would advocate a complete ban on Chinese goods untill such a time as China acts fully in accordance with the agreement over Hong Kong As for the WTO yes there would of been initial problems But by now we would more likely than not had a deal in place Businesses are more resilient than they are given credit for what has caused damage is uncertainty I would say a ban on Chinese goods are impossible at the moment. Also people would be surprised what supposedly top marques, brands are full of Chinese components.
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Post by wagsastokie on Jun 9, 2020 10:43:35 GMT
I personally would advocate a complete ban on Chinese goods untill such a time as China acts fully in accordance with the agreement over Hong Kong As for the WTO yes there would of been initial problems But by now we would more likely than not had a deal in place Businesses are more resilient than they are given credit for what has caused damage is uncertainty I would say a ban on Chinese goods are impossible at the moment. Also people would be surprised what supposedly top marques, brands are full of Chinese components. So what would you suggest we do Or should we just let China walk all over international law
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Post by mrcoke on Jun 9, 2020 11:08:58 GMT
Starting a trade war with China could be very self destructive. I afraid the ship has sailed in terms of our commercial relationships with China. Huge amounts of UK manufacturing have relocated there, and our domestic economy is more and more dependant on China investing their surplus wealth in the UK. www.fkclondon.co.uk/chinese-investment-into-the-uk-an-overview/There no reason why we could not become more self sufficient but clearly with our labour costs , energy costs, and legislation on health, safety, and environment we cannot be competitive in high capital industries like the old smoke stack industries. Things are clearly going to be different for a while while the world recovers from the pandemic, and some things might change for good like working from home and less travel. As we now tend to have a more high tech. commerce this could suit us well in the future. (After all in sport we have shown that we are very good in sports where you sit down !) Regarding my earlier posts on the inequalities of the EU, my views are based on over 40 years experience. Some countries like Ireland and Spain have done exceedingly well out of the EU with major net benefits for decades. But that came to an end as Eastern European states joined the EU. Now that the UK has left, those "older" member states are going to have to be net contributors to fund regional aid to Eastern Europe. How long will they think being a member is worth it? Italy and Greece are suffering from being tied to the Euro, how long will they continue to suffer, seeing all their young people go to other countries to find work? Germany, Netherlands, Belgium, and France will continue to be the core stronghold of the EU as long as they continue to be net beneficiaries from CAP and trade, with their industry supported by mass migration, and being the seat of power in the EU. But things may become very different in a new post pandemic world, where we are still to see what extent the damage will be in the third world.
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Post by nicholasjalcock on Jun 9, 2020 18:03:08 GMT
They have gone in with the typical tory ignorance and arrogance (which we have seen plenty of in this covid debacle), I think they don't really care if it goes to WTO because it won't really effect them and their pupettiers. I get the feeling that all they are interested in is creating a new Hong Kong in London for the offshore dealings etc for the benefit of the two percent That's a good idea as all those citizens of Hong Kong will feel more at home after we have saved them from Chinese tyranny As for wto rules we should of been on that the week we voted leave and then started to negotiate a deal That’s like saying Stoke should concede 10 goals in the FH and then work to improve it in the SH! If I remember correctly Liam Fox said the trade deal would be the easiest in history? As we already had common standards! But now those common standards are a hindrance so the trade deal we were promised that could be concluded simultaneously as the Withdrawal Agreement has not happened! In two years everything would be signed, sealed and delivered? In 2020 we will have had a severe recession and 2021 promises to be another poor year for the economy as Brexit looms? Yet the government wants to press on regardless of any consequences? Reminds me of Hitler in 1942 at the gates of Stalingrad?!
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Post by wagsastokie on Jun 9, 2020 18:56:43 GMT
That's a good idea as all those citizens of Hong Kong will feel more at home after we have saved them from Chinese tyranny As for wto rules we should of been on that the week we voted leave and then started to negotiate a deal That’s like saying Stoke should concede 10 goals in the FH and then work to improve it in the SH! If I remember correctly Liam Fox said the trade deal would be the easiest in history? As we already had common standards! But now those common standards are a hindrance so the trade deal we were promised that could be concluded simultaneously as the Withdrawal Agreement has not happened! In two years everything would be signed, sealed and delivered? In 2020 we will have had a severe recession and 2021 promises to be another poor year for the economy as Brexit looms? Yet the government wants to press on regardless of any consequences? Reminds me of Hitler in 1942 at the gates of Stalingrad?! So Stoke win 11 10 after extra time everyones happy
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Post by nicholasjalcock on Jun 9, 2020 20:20:55 GMT
That’s like saying Stoke should concede 10 goals in the FH and then work to improve it in the SH! If I remember correctly Liam Fox said the trade deal would be the easiest in history? As we already had common standards! But now those common standards are a hindrance so the trade deal we were promised that could be concluded simultaneously as the Withdrawal Agreement has not happened! In two years everything would be signed, sealed and delivered? In 2020 we will have had a severe recession and 2021 promises to be another poor year for the economy as Brexit looms? Yet the government wants to press on regardless of any consequences? Reminds me of Hitler in 1942 at the gates of Stalingrad?! So Stoke win 11 10 after extra time everyones happy Not the poor beggars who left ten minutes early to get to the car park? Lol!
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Post by followyoudown on Jun 9, 2020 22:00:12 GMT
That's a good idea as all those citizens of Hong Kong will feel more at home after we have saved them from Chinese tyranny As for wto rules we should of been on that the week we voted leave and then started to negotiate a deal That’s like saying Stoke should concede 10 goals in the FH and then work to improve it in the SH! If I remember correctly Liam Fox said the trade deal would be the easiest in history? As we already had common standards! But now those common standards are a hindrance so the trade deal we were promised that could be concluded simultaneously as the Withdrawal Agreement has not happened! In two years everything would be signed, sealed and delivered? In 2020 we will have had a severe recession and 2021 promises to be another poor year for the economy as Brexit looms? Yet the government wants to press on regardless of any consequences? Reminds me of Hitler in 1942 at the gates of Stalingrad?! You dont remember correctly he said SHOULD not WOULD, any deal will be done at the last minute thats the way the EU plays it.
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Post by nicholasjalcock on Jun 10, 2020 0:01:30 GMT
That’s like saying Stoke should concede 10 goals in the FH and then work to improve it in the SH! If I remember correctly Liam Fox said the trade deal would be the easiest in history? As we already had common standards! But now those common standards are a hindrance so the trade deal we were promised that could be concluded simultaneously as the Withdrawal Agreement has not happened! In two years everything would be signed, sealed and delivered? In 2020 we will have had a severe recession and 2021 promises to be another poor year for the economy as Brexit looms? Yet the government wants to press on regardless of any consequences? Reminds me of Hitler in 1942 at the gates of Stalingrad?! You dont remember correctly he said SHOULD not WOULD, any deal will be done at the last minute thats the way the EU plays it. I’ve fact checked your point and yes he said ‘should’. But like telling people money would be spent on the NHS the implication was always ‘would’ not ‘should’. The Leave campaign never dwelt on any difficulties of Leaving therefore ‘should’ always meant ‘would’ to the layman! A neat bit of psychology because it gave the impression of leaving yet retaining the good bits. This is known as ‘having your cake and eating it’. The Withdrawal Agreement was a very poor deal, much worse than May’s, so far it is nowhere near what the Leave campaign promised?
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Post by followyoudown on Jun 10, 2020 7:47:33 GMT
You dont remember correctly he said SHOULD not WOULD, any deal will be done at the last minute thats the way the EU plays it. I’ve fact checked your point and yes he said ‘should’. But like telling people money would be spent on the NHS the implication was always ‘would’ not ‘should’. The Leave campaign never dwelt on any difficulties of Leaving therefore ‘should’ always meant ‘would’ to the layman! A neat bit of psychology because it gave the impression of leaving yet retaining the good bits. This is known as ‘having your cake and eating it’. The Withdrawal Agreement was a very poor deal, much worse than May’s, so far it is nowhere near what the Leave campaign promised? It's like the previous 1175 pages never happened and no should means should and the implication with the nhs was could spend the £350m a week on the nhs and if I remember correctly they have since announced uplifts to the budget to do this but anyway back to the remain there would be an immediate recession the day after a vote to leave, punishment budget bollocks etc etc
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Post by Clayton Wood on Jun 10, 2020 8:17:17 GMT
I’ve fact checked your point and yes he said ‘should’. But like telling people money would be spent on the NHS the implication was always ‘would’ not ‘should’. The Leave campaign never dwelt on any difficulties of Leaving therefore ‘should’ always meant ‘would’ to the layman! A neat bit of psychology because it gave the impression of leaving yet retaining the good bits. This is known as ‘having your cake and eating it’. The Withdrawal Agreement was a very poor deal, much worse than May’s, so far it is nowhere near what the Leave campaign promised? It's like the previous 1175 pages never happened and no should means should and the implication with the nhs was could spend the £350m a week on the nhs and if I remember correctly they have since announced uplifts to the budget to do this but anyway back to the remain there would be an immediate recession the day after a vote to leave, punishment budget bollocks etc etc As it turns out the forecast £7bn emergency leave budget which never happened is loose change compared to: £298bn 2020/21 Coronavirus support from the Govt £106bn HS2 And not our problem the €9bn/£8.1bn the German government is bailing out Lufthansa (with EU agreement on state aid rules - quelle surprise) The scaremongering bar hasn't been lifted, it's now stratospheric.
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Post by followyoudown on Jun 10, 2020 8:32:49 GMT
It's like the previous 1175 pages never happened and no should means should and the implication with the nhs was could spend the £350m a week on the nhs and if I remember correctly they have since announced uplifts to the budget to do this but anyway back to the remain there would be an immediate recession the day after a vote to leave, punishment budget bollocks etc etc As it turns out the forecast £7bn emergency leave budget which never happened is loose change compared to: £298bn 2020/21 Coronavirus support from the Govt £106bn HS2 And not our problem the €9bn/£8.1bn the German government is bailing out Lufthansa (with EU agreement on state aid rules - quelle surprise) The scaremongering bar hasn't been lifted, it's now stratospheric. Yes I think the yellowhammer contingency plans are going to need quite some reworking to up the ante now.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jun 10, 2020 8:34:53 GMT
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jun 10, 2020 8:43:31 GMT
I think that all those Brexiteers who were duped ought to be more vocal and active, possibly start the campaign to have the referendum result overturned and campaign to rejoin.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jun 10, 2020 8:51:16 GMT
I think that all those Brexiteers who were duped ought to be more vocal and active, possibly start the campaign to have the referendum result overturned and campaign to rejoin. I appreciate the sarcasm! People generally don't though do they? Admit to being led I mean. It's a truism of politics that it's never the electorate's fault...
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Post by Clayton Wood on Jun 10, 2020 8:53:58 GMT
I think that all those Brexiteers who were duped ought to be more vocal and active, possibly start the campaign to have the referendum result overturned and campaign to rejoin. I appreciate the sarcasm! People generally don't though do they? Admit to being led I mean. It's a truism of politics that it's never the electorate's fault... They should riot in London and tear down the statue of David Cameron at least.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jun 10, 2020 9:04:02 GMT
I appreciate the sarcasm! People generally don't though do they? Admit to being led I mean. It's a truism of politics that it's never the electorate's fault... They should riot in London and tear down the statue of David Cameron at least. I don't think he's got one has he? What for? Services to the Disunited Kingdom?
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jun 10, 2020 9:04:16 GMT
I think that all those Brexiteers who were duped ought to be more vocal and active, possibly start the campaign to have the referendum result overturned and campaign to rejoin. I appreciate the sarcasm! People generally don't though do they? Admit to being led I mean. It's a truism of politics that it's never the electorate's fault... Especially when they don't believe that they have. Crack on though.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jun 10, 2020 9:07:52 GMT
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Post by Clayton Wood on Jun 10, 2020 9:08:30 GMT
They should riot in London and tear down the statue of David Cameron at least. I don't think he's got one has he? What for? Services to the Disunited Kingdom? Whoosh! Looks like somebody has made a start on it already
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jun 10, 2020 9:14:38 GMT
I don't agree with the independent interpretation. The sentiment of the message on the bus is true. What didn't the message persuade you to vote leave, don't you believe in the NHS? There us no groundswell or even minor opinion that anyone feels betrayed. We have left, sorry you can't come to terms with it.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jun 10, 2020 10:44:28 GMT
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jun 10, 2020 10:45:29 GMT
I don't think he's got one has he? What for? Services to the Disunited Kingdom? Whoosh! Looks like somebody has made a start on it already Where is that?
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Post by Clayton Wood on Jun 10, 2020 10:56:12 GMT
Whoosh! Looks like somebody has made a start on it already Where is that? Private sculptor www.antonydufort.co.uk/Does a nice Maggie Thatcher too. Joking aside it's pretty good stuff if you can be selective about the content.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jun 10, 2020 11:08:55 GMT
Private sculptor www.antonydufort.co.uk/Does a nice Maggie Thatcher too. Joking aside it's pretty good stuff if you can be selective about the content. They are good the Harry the windowcleaner in particular. Is the Cameron one on display somewhere in London?
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Post by thevoid on Jun 10, 2020 11:27:51 GMT
I don't think he's got one has he? What for? Services to the Disunited Kingdom? Whoosh! Looks like somebody has made a start on it already It's better than the Ronaldo one!
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