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Post by xchpotter on Jun 3, 2020 9:16:19 GMT
Of course not, but if those overseas trading businesses are after guarantees that Brexit won't affect them negatively, to the point that the government is having to offer promises (bribes) that it won't to get them to committing to stay, that does somewhat indicate that Brexit is not a great idea for these businesses. Not that this should be a surprise since it's been said from the beginning. It's just more evident when a company receives a written guarantee from the government that they'll underwrite any fallout. Aye, it might be a good idea to encourage businesses to stay in a changing world. I'm sure every country would do the same. It isn't compulsory to be in the EU and it is possible to trade....its now up to the EU and UK to decide how....let's hope that the EU come to terms with the fact that they are dealing with an independent country and give us that respect.....or would you still prefer the safety ofthe jurisdiction of the Court of Justice( what a name....straight out of the propaganda guide)....let's leave it to "them" , they'll do their best for the UK..... Anyway it has been done before.....For better order worse....we have left....we now need to do the best we can for the UK, don't you agree. I've never had a " left winger" or Remainer comment on the Trotskist Fox....what do you think of the video.....try 12 minutes onwards if it is too much....the left could learn a lot from her. What do you think of the EU enlargement programme in the Balkans and Turkey remaining a candidate country. Respect is the word here and the EU have little of it for the UK. We had the temerity to challenge their order and control and now they fear the whole pack of cards could come tumbling down. It's easy to say you respect someone's position when you are in a position of dominence, but when you begin to realise that your adversely is potentially more of a threat that can't be walked over, that is when deeds of respect need to be unfertaken rather than words. I think some EU states are starting to realise this and the whining of Barnier and Macron is evidence the momentum is moving. Then we will see some genuine and more realistic offers on trade being made. They aren't dealing with a reaminer prime minister who just wanted appeasement and to keep the same order and its starting to dawn on them. Hope Boris and his team hold their nerve but continue to get us ready for no deal if necessary.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jun 3, 2020 9:21:32 GMT
Aye, it might be a good idea to encourage businesses to stay in a changing world. I'm sure every country would do the same. It isn't compulsory to be in the EU and it is possible to trade....its now up to the EU and UK to decide how....let's hope that the EU come to terms with the fact that they are dealing with an independent country and give us that respect.....or would you still prefer the safety ofthe jurisdiction of the Court of Justice( what a name....straight out of the propaganda guide)....let's leave it to "them" , they'll do their best for the UK..... Anyway it has been done before.....For better order worse....we have left....we now need to do the best we can for the UK, don't you agree. I've never had a " left winger" or Remainer comment on the Trotskist Fox....what do you think of the video.....try 12 minutes onwards if it is too much....the left could learn a lot from her. What do you think of the EU enlargement programme in the Balkans and Turkey remaining a candidate country. Respect is the word here and the EU have little of it for the UK. We had the temerity to challenge their order and control and now they fear the whole pack of cards could come tumbling down. It's easy to say you respect someone's position when you are in a position of dominence, but when you begin to realise that your adversely is potentially more of a threat that can't be walked over, that is when deeds of respect need to be unfertaken rather than words. I think some EU states are starting to realise this and the whining of Barnier and Macron is evidence the momentum is moving. Then we will see some genuine and more realistic offers on trade being made. They aren't dealing with a reaminer prime minister who just wanted appeasement and to keep the same order and its starting to dawn on them. Hope Boris and his team hold their nerve but continue to get us ready for no deal if necessary. I agree with that XC but years ago I did read an argument that within the EU bureaucracy their are some arguing that they would even leave some of " their own " businesses to suffer if it meant trying to punish the UK and win the political battle. It is hard for the EU to negotiate trade in good faith.....because what they are really after is political control, including control of our trade.....it is hard to come to an agreement when the goals are different and the premise for the agreement is different.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jun 3, 2020 9:42:45 GMT
The EU has always distributed investment towards poorer regions, much like it has in this country too, aid which will no longer be available to places like Cornwall, the North-east and, presumably, Stoke-on-Trent. What's wrong with helping out poorer places? One might almost call it, "levelling up" Why did NZISSAN Choose Sunderland over Spain? At present they must believe that that is in their best economic interests. Which is in direct contradiction with the " fear" which was clearly used to attempt to force voters to toe the line. Why didn't the EU give better incentives/ support/ bribes to encourage the Spanish? If we were still.in the EU philosophically it would not matter where Nissan located across the EU region would it , what do you think?....after all we are all European brothers and sisters and they need employment as much as the North East. Are we partners or rivals with France, Germany and Spain etc?
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Post by longdistancekiddie on Jun 3, 2020 10:08:12 GMT
The EU has always distributed investment towards poorer regions, much like it has in this country too, aid which will no longer be available to places like Cornwall, the North-east and, presumably, Stoke-on-Trent. What's wrong with helping out poorer places? One might almost call it, "levelling up" Why did NZISSAN Choose Sunderland over Spain? At present they must believe that that is in their best economic interests. Which is in direct contradiction with the " fear" which was clearly used to attempt to force voters to toe the line. Why didn't the EU give better incentives/ support/ bribes to encourage the Spanish? If we were still.in the EU philosophically it would not matter where Nissan located across the EU region would it , what do you think?....after all we are all European brothers and sisters and they need employment as much as the North East. Are we partners or rivals with France, Germany and Spain etc? Because Nissan have other plants in Europe
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jun 3, 2020 10:13:02 GMT
Why did NZISSAN Choose Sunderland over Spain? At present they must believe that that is in their best economic interests. Which is in direct contradiction with the " fear" which was clearly used to attempt to force voters to toe the line. Why didn't the EU give better incentives/ support/ bribes to encourage the Spanish? If we were still.in the EU philosophically it would not matter where Nissan located across the EU region would it , what do you think?....after all we are all European brothers and sisters and they need employment as much as the North East. Are we partners or rivals with France, Germany and Spain etc? Because Nissan have other plants in Europe So it must make economic sense to Nissan at the moment to also have a plant in the UK, which is also in Europe. Are we rivals with Spain or colleagues?
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jun 3, 2020 10:23:10 GMT
Why did NZISSAN Choose Sunderland over Spain? At present they must believe that that is in their best economic interests. Which is in direct contradiction with the " fear" which was clearly used to attempt to force voters to toe the line. Why didn't the EU give better incentives/ support/ bribes to encourage the Spanish? If we were still.in the EU philosophically it would not matter where Nissan located across the EU region would it , what do you think?....after all we are all European brothers and sisters and they need employment as much as the North East. Are we partners or rivals with France, Germany and Spain etc? Because Nissan have other plants in Europe In the current negotiations I know that you have reservations about our ability to negotiate.....do you think that we should accept everything that the EU want, that would be quick and easy wouldn't it....success. ( Of course not he says, but we have to be realistic....they are bigger and better than us)
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jun 3, 2020 11:02:00 GMT
The EU has always distributed investment towards poorer regions, much like it has in this country too, aid which will no longer be available to places like Cornwall, the North-east and, presumably, Stoke-on-Trent. What's wrong with helping out poorer places? One might almost call it, "levelling up" Those regions are not members. We can distribute our own money....outside of the Euro there is no such thing as Eiropean.money it's out money, we are capable of distributing it.....of course now we have left, they can crack.on with the distribution/ bribes Some of them are, or at least Croatia and Slovenia of the western Balkans are. And the remainder are candidate nations already in negotiations with the EU about joining, if this is what you meant by Western Balkans as a defined term. You call them bribes, as I did with regard to the UK govt and Nissan, not so very different after all are we?
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jun 3, 2020 11:53:41 GMT
Those regions are not members. We can distribute our own money....outside of the Euro there is no such thing as Eiropean.money it's out money, we are capable of distributing it.....of course now we have left, they can crack.on with the distribution/ bribes Some of them are, or at least Croatia and Slovenia of the western Balkans are. And the remainder are candidate nations already in negotiations with the EU about joining, if this is what you meant by Western Balkans as a defined term. You call them bribes, as I did with regard to the UK govt and Nissan, not so very different after all are we? I called them bribes because that's the word you chose to describe UK action in respect to Nissan ( your words), when the EU does it ...you chose "support". I'm glad it wasn't lost on you. Have you any comments on the Clare Fox video? I'd be very interested. 12.00 onwards, but it is all very interesting....where the Left have gone wrong. The link I provided specifically refers to the expansion of the EU.
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Post by felonious on Jun 3, 2020 11:57:35 GMT
Some of them are, or at least Croatia and Slovenia of the western Balkans are. And the remainder are candidate nations already in negotiations with the EU about joining, if this is what you meant by Western Balkans as a defined term. You call them bribes, as I did with regard to the UK govt and Nissan, not so very different after all are we? I called them bribes because that's the word you chose to describe UK action in respect to Nissan ( your words), when the EU does it ...you chose "support". I'm glad it wasn't lost on you. Have you any comments on the Ckare Fox video? I'd be very interested. 12.00 onwards, but it is all very interesting....where the Left have gone wrong. The link I provided specifically refers to the expansion of the EU. He knows this Derek as does everyone else reading the thread. I never knew there was an EU Expansionism Commissioner, is he subject to removal by public vote?
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Post by mrcoke on Jun 3, 2020 12:25:57 GMT
1. The French support their industry via government owned banks. The Italians and Irish have consistently propped up their steel industries with loans to keep them going. (Irony of ironies the present government is propping up British Steel at Scunthorpe till it is sold to China. This is the first time I have known this in decades, when the industry was nationalised.) The Dutch give huge grants (up to 50%) to their industry to meet environmental regulations. The reason they give is to protect their water table. There is a coke plant in Germany built by a collaberation of coal, steel, and energy companies for their mutual benefit and avoid competition and ensure economic security for a generation. It was given approval by the German government after another huge German plant was dismantled and rebuilt in China, so as to protect German industry. 2. A German engineer wanted us to buy an excellant piece of German equipment for a plant I managed in Co.Durham. We said we could not buy it because it was not CE marked. The German engineer laughed and said that was only legislation the British slavishly follow. I have seen French plants blatantly ignoring safety legislation and was once asked by a French boss I had to cheat environmental legislation; I refused. I assume he was used to doing it on French plants as he got quite upset and threatened to sack me 3. UK regulations on machine guarding, electrical regulations, building regulations are far more onerous than many EU countries including France and Germany, putting our industry at a huge disadvantage. I once had a mobile plant delivered to the UK from a French works, but we could not use it because it did not remotely comply with UK safety legislation. It was sent back to France to return to work there. Forgive me, I didn't ask for your experience, I asked for independent evidence of what you allege takes place. I'm not saying your experiences are not valid, but I think we'd both agree that an independently verified analysis carries more weight than what one individual claims. After all, you could've made all of that up. Something like this for example: www.bruegel.org/2016/05/brexit-debate-ignores-uks-privileged-position-in-europe/ I looked into it myself after my reply to you. All EU countries have numerous infringements against them, us included. France and Germany, the two you singled out, pretty much in the middle of the pack overall. In reality, in terms of special treatment, the UK has benefited from more dispensations and subsidiarity than most other EU countries. I see little point in continuing a debate with you if you doubt the veracity of my comments. I'm sure you are well aware of the difference between what politicians say and what they do, as there is a difference between different countries interpretation of the law, and what the law says and what actually happens. Your link in your post does not depict the EU that I know. I have worked for a French company, an Anglo-Dutch company, been a member of a European industrial committee for many years and chaired it for three years. I feel I know what the reality is and not the image politicians and the media portray. Each country endeavours to get what it can out of EU membership; the UK performance has been pathetic apart from the rebate Thatcher managed. Mainly because of the under hand deals that go on in the EU. I worked in the steel industry and have seen it decimated like the American steel industry. Meanwhile The Netherlands, Spain, Belgium, Austria, and Sweden have all increased their capacity over the last 40 years, which in the case of Spain is all the more galling because it is the UK's net contribution to the EU that paid for the rebuilding of Spain's infrastructure when they joined after Franco. It is not inherent for the European nations to trade equitably, hence we have a massive trade deficit with the EU. Look at what is proposed as soon as we leave: www.politico.eu/article/europe-vows-to-finally-deliver-on-its-unloved-industrial-strategy-competition-china-united-states-commission/The EU proposed legislation in the past to stop China dumping cheap steel into Europe, but Cameron stopped it. www.theguardian.com/business/2016/feb/10/david-cameron-accused-failing-uk-steel-industry-blocking-eu-lesser-duty-proposalWe have propped up inefficient French farming for decades. but what a lot of people do not know is that much of the CAP aid in France went to French food processing companies, not just farmers. I well understand there will be a massive upheaval leaving the EU particularly for those that have jobs dependant on selling into the EU or sell European imports. But there is the long term to consider. The EU has stated that 95% of future world growth will be outside the EU. It is that market Britain needs to be in, especially as most of our trade is already outside of the EU. You are clearly committed to membership of the EU. Wake up we are leaving. We will not be allowed back in without giving up the £ and we will certainly not get a rebate on our finacial contribution. The EU is corrupt: www.tuaeu.co.uk/eu-covers-up-eu-corruption/www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26014387www.nytimes.com/2019/11/03/world/europe/eu-farm-subsidy-hungary.htmlHow committed are you to supporting this organisation? I was very pro EU in the 1970s and had vehement arguments with my father who was very anti. He used to say "You cannot have economic union. without political union. They will come to rule us". My dad was right, I was wrong. My vast experience of working in industry all my life and close working with Europeans taught me that we should not be part of that organisation, who are only intent on feathering their own nests at Britain's expense. They make laws, but do their own thing.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jun 3, 2020 16:54:05 GMT
Forgive me, I didn't ask for your experience, I asked for independent evidence of what you allege takes place. I'm not saying your experiences are not valid, but I think we'd both agree that an independently verified analysis carries more weight than what one individual claims. After all, you could've made all of that up. Something like this for example: www.bruegel.org/2016/05/brexit-debate-ignores-uks-privileged-position-in-europe/ I looked into it myself after my reply to you. All EU countries have numerous infringements against them, us included. France and Germany, the two you singled out, pretty much in the middle of the pack overall. In reality, in terms of special treatment, the UK has benefited from more dispensations and subsidiarity than most other EU countries. I see little point in continuing a debate with you if you doubt the veracity of my comments. I'm sure you are well aware of the difference between what politicians say and what they do, as there is a difference between different countries interpretation of the law, and what the law says and what actually happens. Your link in your post does not depict the EU that I know. I have worked for a French company, an Anglo-Dutch company, been a member of a European industrial committee for many years and chaired it for three years. I feel I know what the reality is and not the image politicians and the media portray. Each country endeavours to get what it can out of EU membership; the UK performance has been pathetic apart from the rebate Thatcher managed. Mainly because of the under hand deals that go on in the EU. I worked in the steel industry and have seen it decimated like the American steel industry. Meanwhile The Netherlands, Spain, Belgium, Austria, and Sweden have all increased their capacity over the last 40 years, which in the case of Spain is all the more galling because it is the UK's net contribution to the EU that paid for the rebuilding of Spain's infrastructure when they joined after Franco. It is not inherent for the European nations to trade equitably, hence we have a massive trade deficit with the EU. Look at what is proposed as soon as we leave: www.politico.eu/article/europe-vows-to-finally-deliver-on-its-unloved-industrial-strategy-competition-china-united-states-commission/The EU proposed legislation in the past to stop China dumping cheap steel into Europe, but Cameron stopped it. www.theguardian.com/business/2016/feb/10/david-cameron-accused-failing-uk-steel-industry-blocking-eu-lesser-duty-proposalWe have propped up inefficient French farming for decades. but what a lot of people do not know is that much of the CAP aid in France went to French food processing companies, not just farmers. I well understand there will be a massive upheaval leaving the EU particularly for those that have jobs dependant on selling into the EU or sell European imports. But there is the long term to consider. The EU has stated that 95% of future world growth will be outside the EU. It is that market Britain needs to be in, especially as most of our trade is already outside of the EU. You are clearly committed to membership of the EU. Wake up we are leaving. We will not be allowed back in without giving up the £ and we will certainly not get a rebate on our finacial contribution. The EU is corrupt: www.tuaeu.co.uk/eu-covers-up-eu-corruption/www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26014387www.nytimes.com/2019/11/03/world/europe/eu-farm-subsidy-hungary.htmlHow committed are you to supporting this organisation? I was very pro EU in the 1970s and had vehement arguments with my father who was very anti. He used to say "You cannot have economic union. without political union. They will come to rule us". My dad was right, I was wrong. My vast experience of working in industry all my life and close working with Europeans taught me that we should not be part of that organisation, who are only intent on feathering their own nests at Britain's expense. They make laws, but do their own thing. I'm quite happy for you to post personal opinions on your own experiences, I never said I doubted them, just that anyone could make up anything to suit their argument. Which is undoubtedly true. However, on the whole, I prefer not to rely on individual's comments. It's better generally if independent evidence is supplied. I'm sure you'd agree. Which is why I posted that link from the independent thinktank Breughel, a non-affiliated think tank which rates pretty highly. If your experience of the EU is different, that's fair enough. I choose not to attach much weight to it, for the reason above, it's one individual's comment. I don't think it's fair to say that the UK performance has been pathetic - it has benefited more from opt-outs and subsidiarity than any other country after all, so it must have been doing something to get all those 'special treatments'! Nor do I think the EU is only intent on feathering their own nests at Britain's expense (for the very same reason). I think perhaps your analysis of the whole is clouded by your personal experience - not a criticism, just an observation. Perhaps you're right, we should leave it at that.
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Post by mrcoke on Jun 4, 2020 20:17:06 GMT
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Post by wagsastokie on Jun 5, 2020 8:30:45 GMT
I don't think he dare his majority would evaporate overnight And I don't think Cummings will let him thank God If they refuse to give us a Canada type deal than we should walk in June And simply turn round and say to businesses any extra cost in tariffs will be laid against a businesses rate reduction
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Post by mrcoke on Jun 5, 2020 8:56:18 GMT
I don't think he dare his majority would evaporate overnight And I don't think Cummings will let him thank God If they refuse to give us a Canada type deal than we should walk in June And simply turn round and say to businesses any extra cost in tariffs will be laid against a businesses rate reduction Personally I'm not afraid of tariffs. There is no way the German car industry will "allow" the German government to let tariffs arise as a result of no deal and see a tariff imposed on all the BMWs, Mercs, Audis, VWs etc. that pour into this country. They have sent strong signals to Merkal that she must not allow that to happen. They are using the back door method of pressuring our negotiators by threatening Nissan who then make press releases like the one earlier this week. I am more concerned that Boris will make major concessions on things like fishing rights, or agree to complying with EU legislation (that they don't follow themselves), and worse of all subjecting us to decisions of European courts. I know fishing does not figure highly in the UK's GDP, but then neither does ceramics which is a bit closer to home for North Staffs. But we used to have a huge fishing industry which we gave up to join the EEC. It now seems we have to give it up to leave the EU, and possibly continue to allow the French to take 90% of the cod in the English Channel (or should I say Le Manche.)
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Post by wagsastokie on Jun 5, 2020 9:01:35 GMT
I don't think he dare his majority would evaporate overnight And I don't think Cummings will let him thank God If they refuse to give us a Canada type deal than we should walk in June And simply turn round and say to businesses any extra cost in tariffs will be laid against a businesses rate reduction Personally I'm not afraid of tariffs. There is no way the German car industry will "allow" the German government to let tariffs arise as a result of no deal and see a tariff imposed on all the BMWs, Mercs, Audis, VWs etc. that pour into this country. They have sent strong signals to Merkal that she must not allow that to happen. They are using the back door method of pressuring our negotiators by threatening Nissan who then make press releases like the one earlier this week. I am more concerned that Boris will make major concessions on things like fishing rights, or agree to complying with EU legislation (that they don't follow themselves), and worse of all subjecting us to decisions of European courts. I know fishing does not figure highly in the UK's GDP, but then neither does ceramics which is a bit closer to home for North Staffs. But we used to have a huge fishing industry which we gave up to join the EEC. It now seems we have to give it up to leave the EU, and possibly continue to allow the French to take 90% of the cod in the English Channel (or should I say Le Manche.) Fishing will be the one that they will move on If they allow the European Court any jurisdiction then the tory party will be in open revolt and rightly so They are only one compromise from the third coming of farage
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jun 5, 2020 11:22:38 GMT
Well, the response to Covid-19 has apparently been a great success, so you're probably right.
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Post by followyoudown on Jun 5, 2020 13:09:32 GMT
Personally I'm not afraid of tariffs. There is no way the German car industry will "allow" the German government to let tariffs arise as a result of no deal and see a tariff imposed on all the BMWs, Mercs, Audis, VWs etc. that pour into this country. They have sent strong signals to Merkal that she must not allow that to happen. They are using the back door method of pressuring our negotiators by threatening Nissan who then make press releases like the one earlier this week. I am more concerned that Boris will make major concessions on things like fishing rights, or agree to complying with EU legislation (that they don't follow themselves), and worse of all subjecting us to decisions of European courts. I know fishing does not figure highly in the UK's GDP, but then neither does ceramics which is a bit closer to home for North Staffs. But we used to have a huge fishing industry which we gave up to join the EEC. It now seems we have to give it up to leave the EU, and possibly continue to allow the French to take 90% of the cod in the English Channel (or should I say Le Manche.) Fishing will be the one that they will move on If they allow the European Court any jurisdiction then the tory party will be in open revolt and rightly so They are only one compromise from the third coming of farage Now this would be banter On the fishing they wont ban foreign fleets but they are talking on having agreed quotas for a year that WE decide on just like Iceland does seems perfectly sensible and judging by Barnier's tantrums today Frosty the No man is sticking to his guns.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jun 5, 2020 13:32:33 GMT
The latest position.
I agree with Austin.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jun 6, 2020 9:48:28 GMT
Looks like you could be right... www.telegraph.co.uk/brexit/Meanwhile, (and I realise the Express is little more than a comic) wasn't this "unfair deal" previously a "great deal" according to the Bluffer-in-Chief? Quote:" Mr Johnson instead said his plan was a "great deal" for both Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK" after it passed through the house. Strange...
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Post by longdistancekiddie on Jun 7, 2020 20:06:14 GMT
Looks like you could be right... www.telegraph.co.uk/brexit/Meanwhile, (and I realise the Express is little more than a comic) wasn't this "unfair deal" previously a "great deal" according to the Bluffer-in-Chief? Quote:" Mr Johnson instead said his plan was a "great deal" for both Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK" after it passed through the house. Strange... More tory lies
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Post by longdistancekiddie on Jun 7, 2020 20:08:39 GMT
The latest position. I agree with Austin. Just not clever or savy enough to do the dealing. Torys need to get a new team, sharpish
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Post by followyoudown on Jun 7, 2020 20:24:41 GMT
The latest position. I agree with Austin. Just not clever or savy enough to do the dealing. Torys need to get a new team, sharpish Nope I am more than happy with Frosty the No man, any deal will be done at the last minute and it wont be a one sided capitulation as before.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jun 8, 2020 6:52:33 GMT
Mr Coke is probably right, it'll contain lots of concessions which Bluffer will sell as a great victory, in much the same way that having the highest Covid-19 death toll is also apparently a great success.
His apologists will swallow it just to be able to back him up.
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Post by xchpotter on Jun 8, 2020 7:10:04 GMT
The latest position. I agree with Austin. Just not clever or savy enough to do the dealing. Torys need to get a new team, sharpish Why do you think that out of interest and what would being clever or savvy enough look like in your opinion? The apparent lack of progress is because the negotiating team are being tougher and not waving the white flag as previous individuals have. The really sticky parts of negotiation generally come at the end when all cards are played. From what I can see the noise and sabre rattling is coming from Barnier and his puppeteers which means Frost and co are doing ok. The default is WTO and that is the position. So unless you think having a new negotiating team that capitulates to every demand the EU makes is good for the UK, then we carry on as we are thanks.
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Post by longdistancekiddie on Jun 8, 2020 11:33:06 GMT
They have gone in with the typical tory ignorance and arrogance (which we have seen plenty of in this covid debacle),
I think they don't really care if it goes to WTO because it won't really effect them and their pupettiers.
I get the feeling that all they are interested in is creating a new Hong Kong in London for the offshore dealings etc for the benefit of the two percent
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Post by wagsastokie on Jun 8, 2020 12:37:44 GMT
They have gone in with the typical tory ignorance and arrogance (which we have seen plenty of in this covid debacle), I think they don't really care if it goes to WTO because it won't really effect them and their pupettiers. I get the feeling that all they are interested in is creating a new Hong Kong in London for the offshore dealings etc for the benefit of the two percent That's a good idea as all those citizens of Hong Kong will feel more at home after we have saved them from Chinese tyranny As for wto rules we should of been on that the week we voted leave and then started to negotiate a deal
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Post by longdistancekiddie on Jun 9, 2020 7:54:38 GMT
They have gone in with the typical tory ignorance and arrogance (which we have seen plenty of in this covid debacle), I think they don't really care if it goes to WTO because it won't really effect them and their pupettiers. I get the feeling that all they are interested in is creating a new Hong Kong in London for the offshore dealings etc for the benefit of the two percent That's a good idea as all those citizens of Hong Kong will feel more at home after we have saved them from Chinese tyranny As for wto rules we should of been on that the week we voted leave and then started to negotiate a deal The Hong Kong citizens they let in will probably be the wealthy ones and a few as a token gesture. Would you be in favour of sending the fleet there to sort them out,?. It would have caused a lot of problems to have gone to WTO with next to no warnings.
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Post by longdistancekiddie on Jun 9, 2020 7:56:51 GMT
Because Nissan have other plants in Europe So it must make economic sense to Nissan at the moment to also have a plant in the UK, which is also in Europe. Are we rivals with Spain or colleagues? Business sense for the Renault/Nissan group
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Post by longdistancekiddie on Jun 9, 2020 8:05:38 GMT
Forgive me, Mr Coke, I'll have to see independent evidence of 1, 2 and 3. If you can supply that, I'll happily concede your point. 1. The French support their industry via government owned banks. The Italians and Irish have consistently propped up their steel industries with loans to keep them going. (Irony of ironies the present government is propping up British Steel at Scunthorpe till it is sold to China. This is the first time I have known this in decades, when the industry was nationalised.) The Dutch give huge grants (up to 50%) to their industry to meet environmental regulations. The reason they give is to protect their water table. There is a coke plant in Germany built by a collaberation of coal, steel, and energy companies for their mutual benefit and avoid competition and ensure economic security for a generation. It was given approval by the German government after another huge German plant was dismantled and rebuilt in China, so as to protect German industry. 2. A German engineer wanted us to buy an excellant piece of German equipment for a plant I managed in Co.Durham. We said we could not buy it because it was not CE marked. The German engineer laughed and said that was only legislation the British slavishly follow. I have seen French plants blatantly ignoring safety legislation and was once asked by a French boss I had to cheat environmental legislation; I refused. I assume he was used to doing it on French plants as he got quite upset and threatened to sack me 3. UK regulations on machine guarding, electrical regulations, building regulations are far more onerous than many EU countries including France and Germany, putting our industry at a huge disadvantage. I once had a mobile plant delivered to the UK from a French works, but we could not use it because it did not remotely comply with UK safety legislation. It was sent back to France to return to work there. Lots of holes in this. There is no Irish steel industry. When we where dealers for German built machines we had a order in Africa. we had machines in stocks to ship so we asked the Germans to remove the EU emissions control systems etc. They said they would but only when the machine was in Africa, they would send a engineer there to do so. Just a couple of examples
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jun 9, 2020 8:28:47 GMT
1. The French support their industry via government owned banks. The Italians and Irish have consistently propped up their steel industries with loans to keep them going. (Irony of ironies the present government is propping up British Steel at Scunthorpe till it is sold to China. This is the first time I have known this in decades, when the industry was nationalised.) The Dutch give huge grants (up to 50%) to their industry to meet environmental regulations. The reason they give is to protect their water table. There is a coke plant in Germany built by a collaberation of coal, steel, and energy companies for their mutual benefit and avoid competition and ensure economic security for a generation. It was given approval by the German government after another huge German plant was dismantled and rebuilt in China, so as to protect German industry. 2. A German engineer wanted us to buy an excellant piece of German equipment for a plant I managed in Co.Durham. We said we could not buy it because it was not CE marked. The German engineer laughed and said that was only legislation the British slavishly follow. I have seen French plants blatantly ignoring safety legislation and was once asked by a French boss I had to cheat environmental legislation; I refused. I assume he was used to doing it on French plants as he got quite upset and threatened to sack me 3. UK regulations on machine guarding, electrical regulations, building regulations are far more onerous than many EU countries including France and Germany, putting our industry at a huge disadvantage. I once had a mobile plant delivered to the UK from a French works, but we could not use it because it did not remotely comply with UK safety legislation. It was sent back to France to return to work there. Lots of holes in this. There is no Irish steel industry. When we where dealers for German built machines we had a order in Africa. we had machines in stocks to ship so we asked the Germans to remove the EU emissions control systems etc. They said they would but only when the machine was in Africa, they would send a engineer there to do so. Just a couple of examples Yes, exactly, which is why I don't rely on one individuals experience to influence the bigger picture, and nor should they. There used to be a bloke on here called mcf who would never base his judgements on anything other than his own personal experience and point blank refused to countenance any independent evidence. It's just not the way to do it.
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