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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2017 6:09:45 GMT
Reeks of apologism.
Saying stuff like " When you engage in wars on Foreign soil it is bound to spawn retribution"...Sorry Red Gez....Did we suffer at the hands of German terrorists after WW1 & 2...Did we get Argies being suicide bombers after the Falklands.
I suggest you shut yr commy gob, and if you want to talk about terrorism, how about finally denouncing your beloved IRA....Rotten Cunt.
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Post by felonious on May 26, 2017 6:17:45 GMT
Added to which there are countries out there suffering who haven't engaged in wars on foreign soil.
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Post by JoeinOz on May 26, 2017 6:32:05 GMT
Hardly apologist though. More a rational exploration of how we got to this point. And hopefully we can learn the lessons to ensure the same course of action isn't repeated.
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Post by partickpotter on May 26, 2017 6:45:31 GMT
Hardly apologist though. More a rational exploration of how we got to this point. And hopefully we can learn the lessons to ensure the same course of action isn't repeated. Wrong. The crisis in Islam is a consequence of perennial conflict inside that religion. It's not down to the West. It's the sort of shit that Christianity suffered and (generally grew out of) a few hundred years back. Sadly the schisms ripping the world of Islam apart are happening today. And remember, awful as this week's slaughter of innocents in Manchester were, they are enacted more frequently and with more devastating loss of life across the Arab world. The West plays a part of course. But to link Western foreign policy as a direct causal effect of the current wave of fundamental Islamic terrorism is simply wrong. |
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2017 6:46:58 GMT
I agree that we shouldn't have got involved with Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan
Apart from that tho he's a terrorist sympathiser in my eyes
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Post by JoeinOz on May 26, 2017 6:48:30 GMT
Hardly apologist though. More a rational exploration of how we got to this point. And hopefully we can learn the lessons to ensure the same course of action isn't repeated. Wrong. The crisis in Islam is a consequence of perennial conflict inside that religion. It's not down to the West. It's the sort of shit that Christianity suffered and (generally grew out of) a few hundred years back. Sadly the schisms ripping the world of Islam apart are happening today. And remember, awful as this week's slaughter of innocents in Manchester were, they are enacted more frequently and with more devastating loss of life across the Arab world. The West plays a part of course. But to link Western foreign policy as a direct causal effect of the current wave of fundamental Islamic terrorism is simply wrong. If Iraq hadn't happened do you think incidents like this week in Manchester would still have happened? |
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Post by bathstoke on May 26, 2017 6:49:55 GMT
It's oils fault, for being found in Arabia. Oil, I tells ye!
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Post by essexstokey on May 26, 2017 6:53:25 GMT
I agree that we shouldn't have got involved with Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan Apart from that tho he's a terrorist sympathiser in my eyes Well because of your political views anything he said would be not acceptable as a famous saying go's "jaw jaw not war war" and if you ever saw the film war games the computers analysis of what war brings is that "no one wins we all loose". |
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Post by harryburrows on May 26, 2017 6:54:48 GMT
150 civilians killed yesterday as a result of Air strikes .
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Post by sheikhmomo on May 26, 2017 7:03:59 GMT
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Post by partickpotter on May 26, 2017 7:06:09 GMT
Wrong. The crisis in Islam is a consequence of perennial conflict inside that religion. It's not down to the West. It's the sort of shit that Christianity suffered and (generally grew out of) a few hundred years back. Sadly the schisms ripping the world of Islam apart are happening today. And remember, awful as this week's slaughter of innocents in Manchester were, they are enacted more frequently and with more devastating loss of life across the Arab world. The West plays a part of course. But to link Western foreign policy as a direct causal effect of the current wave of fundamental Islamic terrorism is simply wrong. If Iraq hadn't happened do you think incidents like this week in Manchester would still have happened? Yes. Remember 9/11 took place before Iraq (I assume you're referring to the second Gulf War). |
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2017 7:17:59 GMT
I agree that we shouldn't have got involved with Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan Apart from that tho he's a terrorist sympathiser in my eyes Well because of your political views anything he said would be not acceptable as a famous saying go's "jaw jaw not war war" and if you ever saw the film war games the computers analysis of what war brings is that "no one wins we all loose". YOULL BE LATE FOR SCHOOL LAD ! Goo on befer theet gets mae foot up thee arse  |
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Post by salopstick on May 26, 2017 7:28:36 GMT
I feel the need The need for speed |
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Post by serpico on May 26, 2017 7:28:50 GMT
If he truly believes this then does that mean he's going to get serious about border controls ? if not he's basically saying "we've pissed off a load of muslims, lets let them all in" yet he refuses to pin down his immigration plan.
our foreign policy maybe a catalyst for why western muslims join radical groups, but there is a massive problem within the islamic religion itself, the sunni wahbbisists out of saudi arabia use grievances in the muslim world to recruit to their cause, Our foreign policy puts us in danger in a number of ways, we have deposed many of Al Qeadas enemies for them in the middle east and created a breeding ground for jihadism, in the process of toppling these regimes we've killed lots of innocent civilians, the bin ladenites use this as propaganda to recruit members to their cause, this is why he was delighted when we attacked and invaded Iraq, he called it "the hoped for but unexpected gift" .. bin laden hated Saddam and Gadaffi, Gadaffi was the first world "leader" to put a arrest warrant out for bin laden, he;s been warning of jihadism for years, he warned blair in 2011 they were going to topple him and head for europe using the refugee crisis.
it's time to get smart, change foreign policy and shut the borders for at least a 3 year period, people think this is extreme, i say to those people, great, then you will bear some of the responsibility when gangs of jihadis roam our streets killing at will, it's coming, and it's coming because our governments refuse to take this threat seriously, they're clueless cowards, they're not real leaders, they're narcassitic mid level managers masquerading as leaders, they'd rather virtue signal and spew cliches than do something about this.
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Post by essexstokey on May 26, 2017 7:29:41 GMT
Well because of your political views anything he said would be not acceptable as a famous saying go's "jaw jaw not war war" and if you ever saw the film war games the computers analysis of what war brings is that "no one wins we all loose". YOULL BE LATE FOR SCHOOL LAD ! Goo on befer theet gets mae foot up thee arse Where as you'll be late for nursery  |
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Post by salopstick on May 26, 2017 7:32:35 GMT
If he truly believes this then does that mean he's going to get serious about border controls ? if not he's basically saying "we've pissed off a load of muslims, lets let them all in" yet he refuses to pin down his immigration plan. our foreign policy maybe a catalyst for why western muslims join radical groups, but there is a massive problem within the islamic religion itself, the sunni wahbbisists out of saudi arabia use grievances in the muslim world to recruit to their cause, Our foreign policy puts us in danger in a number of ways, we have deposed many of Al Qeadas enemies for them in the middle east and created a breeding ground for jihadism, in the process of toppling these regimes we've killed lots of innocent civilians, the bin ladenites use this as propaganda to recruit members to their cause, this is why he was delighted when we attacked and invaded Iraq, he called it "the hoped for but unexpected gift" .. bin laden hated Saddam and Gadaffi, Gadaffi was the first world "leader" to put a arrest warrant out for bin laden, he;s been warning of jihadism for years, he warned blair in 2011 they were going to topple him and head for europe using the refugee crisis. it's time to get smart, change foreign policy and shut the borders for at least a 3 year period, people think this is extreme, i say to those people, great, then you will bear some of the responsibility when gangs of jihadis roam our streets killing at will, it's coming, and it's coming because our governments refuse to take this threat seriously, they're clueless cowards, they're not real leaders, they're narcassitic mid level managers masquerading as leaders, they'd rather virtue signal and spew cliches than do something about this. That's the point. You can't continually say "this is wrong" with out offering any solution. |
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Post by serpico on May 26, 2017 7:42:06 GMT
If he truly believes this then does that mean he's going to get serious about border controls ? if not he's basically saying "we've pissed off a load of muslims, lets let them all in" yet he refuses to pin down his immigration plan. our foreign policy maybe a catalyst for why western muslims join radical groups, but there is a massive problem within the islamic religion itself, the sunni wahbbisists out of saudi arabia use grievances in the muslim world to recruit to their cause, Our foreign policy puts us in danger in a number of ways, we have deposed many of Al Qeadas enemies for them in the middle east and created a breeding ground for jihadism, in the process of toppling these regimes we've killed lots of innocent civilians, the bin ladenites use this as propaganda to recruit members to their cause, this is why he was delighted when we attacked and invaded Iraq, he called it "the hoped for but unexpected gift" .. bin laden hated Saddam and Gadaffi, Gadaffi was the first world "leader" to put a arrest warrant out for bin laden, he;s been warning of jihadism for years, he warned blair in 2011 they were going to topple him and head for europe using the refugee crisis. it's time to get smart, change foreign policy and shut the borders for at least a 3 year period, people think this is extreme, i say to those people, great, then you will bear some of the responsibility when gangs of jihadis roam our streets killing at will, it's coming, and it's coming because our governments refuse to take this threat seriously, they're clueless cowards, they're not real leaders, they're narcassitic mid level managers masquerading as leaders, they'd rather virtue signal and spew cliches than do something about this. That's the point. You can't continually say "this is wrong" with out offering any solution. the former head of the CIAs bin laden unit, michael scheuer, has been saying for close to two decades that western foreign policy is the Bin ladenites one indispensable ally and that our borders would leave us wide open to attacks, nobody listens, party politics mush everyones minds on the border issue, people just called him racist, we're literally killing ourselves with political correctness. it's unpalatable to some, but i believe soon people will be begging for a Trump like immigration/refugee ban, but for the time being many, particularly on the left, are more concerned with the feelings of the muslim community than bombs going off at concerts. |
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Post by ashleyscfc on May 26, 2017 7:49:07 GMT
Reeks of apologism. Saying stuff like " When you engage in wars on Foreign soil it is bound to spawn retribution"...Sorry Red Gez....Did we suffer at the hands of German terrorists after WW1 & 2...Did we get Argies being suicide bombers after the Falklands. I suggest you shut yr commy gob, and if you want to talk about terrorism, how about finally denouncing your beloved IRA....Rotten Cunt. You mean him sharing the exact same opinion as two former Mi5 chiefs?   Yea good one, stop listening to the shithouse news. The two are connected, we need to have grown up conversations about how we justify killing thousands of people. I don't think that's much to ask? |
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Post by JoeinOz on May 26, 2017 7:54:25 GMT
If Iraq hadn't happened do you think incidents like this week in Manchester would still have happened? Yes. Remember 9/11 took place before Iraq (I assume you're referring to the second Gulf War). Iraq as in 2003. That's a good point about it. |
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2017 7:57:59 GMT
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Post by salopstick on May 26, 2017 8:07:39 GMT
If Iraq hadn't happened do you think incidents like this week in Manchester would still have happened? Yes. Remember 9/11 took place before Iraq (I assume you're referring to the second Gulf War). That's a point I made yesterday. Our foreign policy in the Middle East changed after some idiots decided to crash planes into buildings. They forced a response. With hindsight it may have been the wrong response. But I get the feeling they would have continued this terror until they got that response. |
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Post by marwood on May 26, 2017 8:08:15 GMT
Corbyn - a finger-jabbing, cloth-eared bin bag of unshakeable opinions
Corbyn - George Galloway without the charisma
Corbyn - a man who has spent his entire career in politics without learning the first thing about what it is
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Post by followyoudown on May 26, 2017 8:18:20 GMT
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Post by followyoudown on May 26, 2017 8:25:44 GMT
If Iraq hadn't happened do you think incidents like this week in Manchester would still have happened? Yes. Remember 9/11 took place before Iraq (I assume you're referring to the second Gulf War). One other thing to bear in mind as the bombers family had to flee Libya because of Gadhaffi, I've seen it reported he was delighted when he was overthrown. Whatever the western world does ISIS would find a reason to bomb, maim and kill it's quite perverse to blame foreign policy for that, would the people who promote this theory tell victims of Islamophobia "well you know if muslims didn't go around killing innocent people" of course they wouldn't and nor should they. |
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Post by serpico on May 26, 2017 8:27:12 GMT
Yes. Remember 9/11 took place before Iraq (I assume you're referring to the second Gulf War). That's a point I made yesterday. Our foreign policy in the Middle East changed after some idiots decided to crash planes into buildings. They forced a response. With hindsight it may have been the wrong response. But I get the feeling they would have continued this terror until they got that response. it may have been wrong to topple the enemies of the people who did 9/11 ?... may have been ? saddam, Gadaffi, Assad et all had nothing to do with the idiots who crashed planes into buildings, absolutely zero, we should have narrowly gone after bin laden, snuffed him out, and got out. I'm not saying the west created islamic terrorism, or that western foreign policy creates it per-se. i'm saying the west has taken a problem that was relatively small, despite the spectacular nature of the 9/11 attacks, and made it 10 times worse, this is because after 9/11 they stopped waging the war on bin laden and turned to Iraq, which led to the disaster in Syria. after 9/11 the neocons hijacked US foreign policy to push a totally different agenda than fighting terror, they didn't much give a shit about bin laden and co. |
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Post by sheikhmomo on May 26, 2017 8:41:58 GMT
This strikes me as the least controversial thing any politician has said ever.
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Post by Timmypotter on May 26, 2017 8:44:57 GMT
The bomber's dad was given asylum here as he was being persecuted by Gadhafi, but he returned intermittently to Libya to fight against Gadhafi.
We toppled Gadhafi and the dad returned permanently to Libya. You'd have thought the family would have been happy with the outcome. Turns out they just liked killing people. Our foreign policy has naff all to do with it.
ISIS and Al Queda before them are death cults who want to destroy everyone and everything that isn't them. They're psychos. Our foreign policy, which I'd agree has at times been misguided, isn't responsible for the actions of nutters.
Question Time last night was interesting. Sara Khan, Nazir Afzal and one brave Muslim girl in the audience made interesting points about how we should tackle extremism in the Muslim community. It's worth a watch.
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Post by followyoudown on May 26, 2017 8:55:43 GMT
This strikes me as the least controversial thing any politician has said ever. In a completely bollocks kind of a way ? Those thousands of muslims ISIS kill in Iraq, Libya etc any useful advice on what they should do to stop being killed ? It's almost like ISIS just like killling people. |
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Post by sheikhmomo on May 26, 2017 9:48:34 GMT
This strikes me as the least controversial thing any politician has said ever. In a completely bollocks kind of a way ? Those thousands of muslims ISIS kill in Iraq, Libya etc any useful advice on what they should do to stop being killed ? It's almost like ISIS just like killling people. Of course its a lot more complex than just our own foreign policy but to suggest our own actions are non contributory is utter nonsense and any sane person would accept that. |
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Post by serpico on May 26, 2017 10:08:39 GMT
In a completely bollocks kind of a way ? Those thousands of muslims ISIS kill in Iraq, Libya etc any useful advice on what they should do to stop being killed ? It's almost like ISIS just like killling people. Of course its a lot more complex than just our own foreign policy but to suggest our own actions are non contributory is utter nonsense and any sane person would accept that. it's actually far worse than just "we bomb them, they bomb us"... our foreign policy actually helps jihadi groups and if reports are accurate its sometimes not even indirectly! it seems Mi5 have been allowing known individuals with jihadist views to travel to these war zones to fight the likes of the assad and gadaffi government and then allowing them to return to the UK, if these reports are true, and it turns out this bomber was one of those (he went over to Libya when he was 16 and has been going back and forth at will) then there will be absolute hell to pay, its getting beyond a joke, our government is putting is in grave danger via these policies. i'm actually at a loss, we're fucked, it's like we're packing young muslims off to go and train so they can come back and attack us!!!!!! what the hell is going on ? |
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