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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2017 10:02:15 GMT
One thing Im sure we can all agree on
assuming we stay up and, assuming we keep our manager
there's a very obvious and massive clear out of players due
and some very hard decisions to be taken
including, some of our loyalist most effective employees, as well as some very expensive flops
they ALL need to be moved on - that much is obvious
top level sport is a ruthless affair and there's absolutely no place for sentimentality or, simple baggage carrying, sorry to say
and so a massive summer for Stoke City awaits - that is for sure
and for Peter Coates - its absolutely essential to conduct - a pretty forensic, game by game review,
along with our manager with, a very hard line in questioning- which too - is absolutely necessary
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Post by alster on Apr 9, 2017 10:27:11 GMT
One thing Im sure we can all agree on assuming we stay up and, assuming we keep our manager there's a very obvious and massive clear out of players due and some very hard decisions to be taken including, some of our loyalist most effective employees, as well as some very expensive flops they ALL need to be moved on - that much is obvious top level sport is a ruthless affair and there's absolutely no place for sentimentality or, simple baggage carrying, sorry to say and so a massive summer for Stoke City awaits - that is for sure and for Peter Coates - its absolutely essential to conduct - a pretty forensic, game by game review, along with our manager with, a very hard line in questioning- which too - is absolutely necessary The majority of what you term "our loyalist most effective employees" are already contracted for next season. They will be of absolutely no interest to other Premier League teams. Lower lever clubs will get nowhere near the wages that we are paying them hence we're stuck with them. Rank bad management to have so many players in the death throes of their careers already signed up for next season.
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Post by Trouserdog on Apr 9, 2017 10:32:39 GMT
I agree.
I think we need to be saying goodbye to Given, Haugaard, Bachmaan, Johnson,Wolly, Muniesa (reluctantly), Adam, Imbula, Shaqiri (reluctantly), Joselu and Bojan.
I'd keep Bardsley, Walters, Whelan and Crouch- mainly because three of them are still under contract and we're unlikely to shift them anyway, but also because we may be seriously short of numbers otherwise. My squad next season would be as follows:
...........................Butland............................ ...........................Grant............................... .......................*New GK*..........................
*New RB*....Shawcross....Martins Indi..........*New LB* .....Bardsley...........Cameron...*New CB*............Pieters
......................Allen..........*New DM*................ ....................Afellay..........Whelan....................
Sobhi.....................*New AM*......................Arnie Walters..................*New AM*.....................*New LW*
.............................Berahino............................... ............................ Diouf.................................... .............................Crouch.................................
The youngsters who have the most chance of breaking through (Souttar, Edwards, Sweeney, Verlinden, Shenton, N'Goy, Campbell) all, IMO, probably need to prove themselves at Championship level for 12 months before I'd include them as proper first team squad members. Looking at the age of some of the players I'd keep though, there are obvious slots for them in a couple of years time, replacing the likes of Bardsley (Edwards), Walters (Verlinden), Crouch (N'Goy or Campbell), Affelay (Shenton) IF they can prove themselves at a slightly lower level first. The new centre back slot could probably be an older head on a 2 year deal (similar to Upson when we signed him), in the hope that one of Souttar or Sweeney can develop enough to step up in time.
There's an argument for keeping Shaq and Bojan as that would be two of the three attacking midfield slots filled, but I think both of them want out and Shaqiri's constant injuries just don't seem value at 70k a week. It'd be really ambitious, but if Swansea go down I'd love to see us make a big money move for Sigurdsson as our new number 10.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Apr 9, 2017 10:58:59 GMT
I agree. I think we need to be saying goodbye to Given, Haugaard, Bachmaan, Johnson, Muniesa (reluctantly), Adam, Imbula, Shaqiri (reluctantly) and Bojan. I'd keep Bardsley, Walters, Whelan and Crouch- mainly because three of them are still under contract and we're unlikely to shift them anyway, but also because we may be seriously short of numbers otherwise. My squad next season would be as follows: ...........................Butland............................ ...........................Grant............................... ....................... *New GK*.......................... *New RB*....Shawcross....Martins Indi..........*New LB* .....Bardsley...........Cameron... *New CB*............Pieters ......................Allen.......... *New DM*................ ....................Afellay..........Whelan.................... Sobhi..................... *New AM*......................Arnie Walters.................. *New AM*.....................* New LW*.............................Berahino............................... ............................ Diouf.................................... .............................Crouch................................. The youngsters who have the most chance of breaking through (Souttar, Edwards, Sweeney, Verlinden, Shenton, N'Goy, Campbell) all, IMO, probably need to prove themselves at Championship level for 12 months before I'd include them as proper first team squad members. Looking at the age of some of the players I'd keep though, there are obvious slots for them in a couple of years time, replacing the likes of Bardsley (Edwards), Walters (Verlinden), Crouch (N'Goy or Campbell), Affelay (Shenton) IF they can prove themselves at a slightly lower level first. The new centre back slot could probably be an older head on a 2 year deal (similar to Upson when we signed him), in the hope that one of Souttar or Sweeney can develop enough to step up in time. There's an argument for keeping Shaq and Bojan as that would be two of the three attacking midfield slots filled, but I think both of them want out and Shaqiri's constant injuries just don't seem value at 70k a week. It'd be really ambitious, but if Swansea go down I'd love to see us make a big money move for Sigurdsson as our new number 10. It all depends on what happens doesn't it? I think Muniesa would absolutely prosper if there was a change of manager. You'd also have to think that a new manager would want to give Imbula and Shaqiri and arguably Bojan a real chance. By the same token I can't see any new manager thinking Whelan or Walters are anywhere near good enough.
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Post by manmarking on Apr 9, 2017 11:08:30 GMT
One thing Im sure we can all agree on assuming we stay up and, assuming we keep our manager there's a very obvious and massive clear out of players due and some very hard decisions to be taken including, some of our loyalist most effective employees, as well as some very expensive flops they ALL need to be moved on - that  much is obvious top level sport is a ruthless affair and there's absolutely no place for sentimentality  or, simple baggage carrying, sorry to say and  so a massive summer for Stoke City awaits - that is for sure and for Peter Coates - its absolutely essential to conduct - a pretty forensic, game by game review, along with our manager with, a very hard line in questioning- which too - is absolutely necessary  Love how you structure your posts like hip-hop, mate. Always have, always will. Natural rhythm. Keep up the good work
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Post by mrred on Apr 9, 2017 11:10:20 GMT
The problem is finding buyers for the deadwood. Unless we're will to take hits, we're saddled with this shit. Assuming Hughes stays, which would be the worst thing for this club- he won't get rid anyway.
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Post by cousindupree on Apr 9, 2017 11:21:47 GMT
A massive clearout PLUS a new manager and giving youth a chance would be hugely destabilising and I really hope the board don't make that mistake and I think they are smart enough not to take that option. A lot on here are suggesting a new manager would get more out of the misfiring players so why ship them out? The sensible approach would be to improve our scouting and recruitment team, it needs a serious overhaul, and find maybe 5 new players who would be serious contenders for a first xi start. Shouldn't be too difficult to ship out 5....Given, Johnson, Imbula, Ireland and Joselu my choice and if replaced by players who would genuinely improve our starting xi. This would still leave the likes of Bojan, Affelay, Adam, Diouf, Muniesa as fringe players and they may not be happy to stay. Finally the Manager, and I am not as desperate as many on here to see him go, but a decision needs to be made very quickly after a review of the season and a back him or sack him call early please. Whoever the manager is next season we need perhaps our biggest investment in new players ever to be truly competitive next season. A question that not many are asking is our recruitment team up to finding those 5 top quality additions?
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Post by Pugsley on Apr 9, 2017 12:16:11 GMT
Massive clearout is not going to happen. Just like a massive incoming of new players isn't going to happen.
The stark reality is that we are now paying for not spending enough money and reshaping the squad in the managers first 4 windows. Like EVERYTHING we do as a club - far too passive.
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Post by sportsman on Apr 9, 2017 12:18:21 GMT
One thing Im sure we can all agree on assuming we stay up and, assuming we keep our manager there's a very obvious and massive clear out of players due and some very hard decisions to be taken including, some of our loyalist most effective employees, as well as some very expensive flops they ALL need to be moved on - that  much is obvious top level sport is a ruthless affair and there's absolutely no place for sentimentality  or, simple baggage carrying, sorry to say and  so a massive summer for Stoke City awaits - that is for sure and for Peter Coates - its absolutely essential to conduct - a pretty forensic, game by game review, along with our manager with, a very hard line in questioning- which too - is absolutely necessary  Love how you structure your posts like hip-hop, mate. Always have, always will. Natural rhythm. Keep up the good work The next challenge though is to make them rhyme!
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 9, 2017 12:20:05 GMT
Why would anyone want to see Shaq go?
He showed yesterday why he's so valuable.
Hughes and co have got to find a solution to his injury problems.
The clear out should start with Tony Scholes, take Cartwright and Hughes and end at Jakob Haugaard and take about 11 players in between.
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Post by banksisgod on Apr 9, 2017 12:22:07 GMT
I honestly don't believe that a massive clear-out is necessary; certainly, we could do with a full-back (if we are going to play a flat back four), and we definitely need a sitting mid-fielder - Whelan is gone, and we are only plugging a gap by using Cameron and Allen in there -. But I feel that what we need most of all is a leader who the rest of the players are willing to play for. Without exception, each of the players has more to give, both in terms of effort and speed of play and that can be harnessed by a natural leader beside them, pushing them and encouraging them in equal measure.
The best example I can think of is Keane (Scott Brown is another) Love him or hate him, he was a brilliant leader on the pitch who could get an extra 5-10 per cent out his team-mates through a combination of respect and fear. Ryan doesn't doesn't have that. He actually seems quite a timid bloke. The obvious ones in the current squad are Whelan and Walters, but both are 33 and no longer certain starters.
I suspect that, whoever that leader might be, he would be likely to come from one of the home countries because of temperament.
In the meantime, it seems pretty obvious that we should be playing 3-5-2 for the remainder of the season, using the pace and power of Ramadan and Arnie as wing-backs (they would have the discipline and fitness for the role), leaving Shaq, when fit, to play behind the striker.
In summary, if we reserved the greater part of the summer budget for a natural leader who merits starting every game, possibly two other recruits and judicious use of our talented kids - Verlinden, N'Goy, Edwards, Campbell (even next year is too soon for Sweeney and Souttar), and allowed the players to play at a faster tempo, we'd certainly be more competitive every week, and every game would be a better spectacle for the fans. It is, after all, a spectator sport.
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Post by sportsman on Apr 9, 2017 12:23:32 GMT
The movement and awareness for our offside goal yesterday showed the quality arnie and shaq could and should be bringing more often. I'd try all i could to make the boyan,shaq,arnie,berahino,ramadam etc type players fight the hell out for a re-energized new look squad next season. The quality is there if we can get the right ones around them
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Post by jebbstuart on Apr 9, 2017 12:24:58 GMT
think we are going to struggle to off load many and we have to keep paying their wages cant just get rid of 15 odd players, perhaps a new manager can revitalise some of them
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Post by cobhamstokey on Apr 9, 2017 12:42:49 GMT
I thinks its easier to say who we should keep
GK - Butland, Grant RB - Bardsley (back up) LB - Pieters CB - Shawcross, Indi DM - Cameron, Allen, Affelay AM - Bojan, Imbula (if Hughes goes) WIDE - Shaq (if he can sort his fitness out), Arni, Sobhi. CF - Berahino, Diouf.
We have the basis of a decent side just to many ageing slow players. Our biggest problem at the moment is the manager.
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Post by thehoof on Apr 9, 2017 12:51:29 GMT
Whelan a leader? There's more to being a leader than waving your arms about. I wouldn't even have him in the squad.Totallyresponsible for the first goal and five minutes after that it took him so long to control a simple pass that he was dispossessed and it was up to the Center Backs ( who he is supposed to protect) to dig him out of the mess he created. He's under contract so give him a coaching role where he might get a response but keep him away from playing.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 9, 2017 12:57:26 GMT
I thinks its easier to say who we should keep GK - Butland, Grant RB - Bardsley (back up) LB - Pieters CB - Shawcross, Indi DM - Cameron, Allen, Affelay AM - Bojan, Imbula (if Hughes goes) WIDE - Shaq (if he can sort his fitness out), Arni, Sobhi. CF - Berahino, Diouf. We have the basis of a decent side just to many ageing slow players. Our biggest problem at the moment is the manager. Where's the room to improve the midfield if we're keeping all of them?
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Post by wuzza on Apr 9, 2017 13:01:38 GMT
Massive clear-out will not happen ......unless the unthinkable 'r' word occurred.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 9, 2017 13:06:17 GMT
Massive clear-out will not happen ......unless the unthinkable 'r' word occurred. It needs to or the r word will happen.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Apr 9, 2017 13:08:34 GMT
I thinks its easier to say who we should keep GK - Butland, Grant RB - Bardsley (back up) LB - Pieters CB - Shawcross, Indi DM - Cameron, Allen, Affelay AM - Bojan, Imbula (if Hughes goes) WIDE - Shaq (if he can sort his fitness out), Arni, Sobhi. CF - Berahino, Diouf. We have the basis of a decent side just to many ageing slow players. Our biggest problem at the moment is the manager. Where's the room to improve the midfield if we're keeping all of them? For me there's 3 spots 2DM and 1AM For me Whelan and Adam have to go because they're too slow Afellay hasn't been given a chance but has shown a lot of quality when he's played. GCam is an excellent squad player as he can cover CB, DM and RB. Allen has just signed and has looked good at DM. Imbula has undoubted talent but isn't a DM if he was allowed a more free role under a new manager I think we'd see a great player. For me we need 2 new DMs nothing more one who can start alongside Allen and another who can be cover.
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Post by liamo on Apr 9, 2017 13:10:17 GMT
Need a clear out, not necessarily a massive one though
I'd like to see what a new manager could do with Bojan/Imbula/Joselu and even some of the youth players before we commit to getting rid of players
Too many players have dropped form for it to be a coincidence and just look what a change in manager did for Chelsea/Leicester, obviously we're nowhere near Chelsea talent wise but the situation is the same, too many good players not performing at the levels we know they can hit
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 9, 2017 13:17:15 GMT
Where's the room to improve the midfield if we're keeping all of them? For me there's 3 spots 2DM and 1AM For me Whelan and Adam have to go because they're too slow Afellay hasn't been given a chance but has shown a lot of quality when he's played. GCam is an excellent squad player as he can cover CB, DM and RB. Allen has just signed and has looked good at DM. Imbula has undoubted talent but isn't a DM if he was allowed a more free role under a new manager I think we'd see a great player. For me we need 2 new DMs nothing more one who can start alongside Allen and another who can be cover. But that's 5 players for 2 positions and 3 players for 1 position. That's not really realistic is it? You'll say it's what we have now but look at that mess. 5 average players and no quality.
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Post by xchpotter on Apr 9, 2017 13:18:14 GMT
Massive clear-out will not happen ......unless the unthinkable 'r' word occurred. The problem is that if we did get "r'd" the very players we need to get rid of now would be the only ones hanging around as no one will pay the wages we do to them outside of the Premier League which they are not good enough for.
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Post by Bojan Mackey on Apr 9, 2017 13:20:51 GMT
Starting with the fucking manager.
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Post by sportsman on Apr 9, 2017 13:23:05 GMT
Need a clear out, not necessarily a massive one though I'd like to see what a new manager could do with Bojan/Imbula/Joselu and even some of the youth players before we commit to getting rid of players Too many players have dropped form for it to be a coincidence and just look what a change in manager did for Chelsea/Leicester, obviously we're nowhere near Chelsea talent wise but the situation is the same, too many good players not performing at the levels we know they can hit I just think people look at changing the manager too easily. I look at all clubs below the top 7 and you could make a case for all manager changes. Be it us, southampton, west ham, anyone. We all win a few, lose a few, draw a few. Some games them teams look like barcelona, then a few weeks later they can look like burton. Don't forget who bought them players in. We could end up with a manager that just buys and plays british players like we're largely doing now, mainly because i think of the situation where at the moment he thinks he can rely more on those players to dig a result out, rather than let the flair players loose. He needs to get back to doing what he did when he first came in, with possession and quicker play.
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Post by pottarius on Apr 9, 2017 13:25:01 GMT
Why would anyone want to see Shaq go? He showed yesterday why he's so valuable. Hughes and co have got to find a solution to his injury problems. The clear out should start with Tony Scholes, take Cartwright and Hughes and end at Jakob Haugaard and take about 11 players in between. The size of the clearout will depend on on what a decent CEO would make of the situation If PC was to get his 'dong' out early it would be to replace Scholes now ideally and let him decide what to do with the current regime inc Cartwright and LMH. It could be with a decent fearless manager we don't need much surgery (other than the obvious DM & FBs)
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Post by liamo on Apr 9, 2017 14:02:22 GMT
Need a clear out, not necessarily a massive one though I'd like to see what a new manager could do with Bojan/Imbula/Joselu and even some of the youth players before we commit to getting rid of players Too many players have dropped form for it to be a coincidence and just look what a change in manager did for Chelsea/Leicester, obviously we're nowhere near Chelsea talent wise but the situation is the same, too many good players not performing at the levels we know they can hit I just think people look at changing the manager too easily. I look at all clubs below the top 7 and you could make a case for all manager changes. Be it us, southampton, west ham, anyone. We all win a few, lose a few, draw a few. Some games them teams look like barcelona, then a few weeks later they can look like burton. Don't forget who bought them players in. We could end up with a manager that just buys and plays british players like we're largely doing now, mainly because i think of the situation where at the moment he thinks he can rely more on those players to dig a result out, rather than let the flair players loose. He needs to get back to doing what he did when he first came in, with possession and quicker play. He does need to get back to that quicker football but can he/will he? His actions say he has no intention of doing so and the team's showing no signs of an upward turn at all? We're stale, we have been for over a year if not more, it's followed us through the preseason and i think it will carry on through to next season if something doesn't change, i don't think we can turn around another poor start to a season
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Post by melonhead on Apr 9, 2017 14:06:55 GMT
I thinks its easier to say who we should keep GK - Butland, Grant RB - Bardsley (back up) LB - Pieters CB - Shawcross, Indi DM - Cameron, Allen, Affelay AM - Bojan, Imbula (if Hughes goes) WIDE - Shaq (if he can sort his fitness out), Arni, Sobhi. CF - Berahino, Diouf. We have the basis of a decent side just to many ageing slow players. Our biggest problem at the moment is the manager.
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Post by melonhead on Apr 9, 2017 14:07:48 GMT
Nearly right, Pieters as back up as well.
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Post by arnie3010 on Apr 9, 2017 14:35:53 GMT
With Hughes as our manager, there will never be a massive clearout.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Apr 9, 2017 15:37:03 GMT
Massive clearout is not going to happen. Just like a massive incoming of new players isn't going to happen. The stark reality is that we are now paying for not spending enough money and reshaping the squad in the managers first 4 windows. Like EVERYTHING we do as a club - far too passive. Completely agree. I even remember being among those who were saying how well Hughes was doing on a shoestring. Poor sod was getting Given and Wollschied to work with in the early days. It's caught up with us now, as you say.
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