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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Feb 9, 2017 16:43:00 GMT
There are a lot of very good points here. Historically, Stoke by-passed itself in the 1840s when the Manchester-Stoke-Burton-Nuneaton-London railway fell through. Apparently, Wedgwood thought that the higher railway workers wages would push up pottery workers wages so he blocked the scheme and the railway was built through Crewe instead. When, in 1923, the North Staffs Railway was incorporated into the L.M.S. the engineering, carriage works in Fenton were closed. Work was concentrated in Crewe and Liverpool. Stoke lost a vital element in its higher tech industry. This brings me onto Derby. Derby is prospering because it kept its railway engineering in 1923. Also, Rolls-Royce grew into a massive high tech engineering company. Other engineering companies moved in nearby later e.g.Toyota and J.C.B.. Derby is an obvious location because there is a strong engineering tradition in the city. To my knowledge, Derby has never received big government subsidies because it never needed them! Stoke has struggled because it's 19th century economic base ended/declined simultaneously and very quickly. Nevertheless, progress has been made. The city centre with 'The Hive' and Smithfield is massively improved and will get better with the re-development of the old bus station. The city is getting better but geographically being mid-way between Birmingham and Manchester has caused many problems. Too far away to get any of the spill-over effects from Manchester and Birmingham's prosperity yet too near to be a big, independent commercial centre. I'm afraid it's Location! Location! Location! and Stoke geographically is slightly in the wrong place?I disagree. I think S-o-T is perfectly placed. Equidistant between Birmingham and Manchester with Nottingham and Derby to the East. Bang on the M6 and the A50 to the M1. International airports at Manchester, Birmingham and East Midlands. 1 hour 30 to London by train. Rural Moorlands and Shropshire on the doorstep and the Cheshire set just up the road. Plenty of Brownfield sites to regenerate and a proven, hard working, skilled local workforce. Just ask Emma Bridgewater. It's beyond me how this area hasn't been repackaged by local MP's and promoted to Westminster and beyond.
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Feb 9, 2017 16:46:19 GMT
Yikes! Obviously you and Momo didn't get the memo. Gareth Snell [on facing Nuttall] "... we should not lump UKIP and the Tories together and make it easier for the latter to vote for the former if they're perceived as a Tory home from home." Inside Stoke Central's Selection Meeting - Blog I think the blog is by Phil Corrigan. Sentnul Journo and Lefty but I'm happy to sit corrected. But you suggested voting for Nutjob, I never would! That's because you'd vote Labour even if it was a pig with a red rosette and you live in London
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Post by nicholasjalcock on Feb 9, 2017 17:24:55 GMT
But you suggested voting for Nutjob, I never would! That's because you'd vote Labour even if it was a pig with a red rosette and you live in London I've voted, canvassed and leafletted for Labour candidates many, many times in Staffs including when S-o-T was part of Staffs Co. Council! P.S. A pig's arse would still look prettier than Maggie Thatcher!
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Post by TrentValePotter96 on Feb 9, 2017 17:27:07 GMT
Why should the Tories bother with Stoke when it's full of bitter little Labour bigots? is that the local conservative candidate's slogan?
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Post by countofmontecristo on Feb 9, 2017 17:49:33 GMT
I'm struggling with your logic here Gods. How will changing your MP for the first time ever, make you appear to be 'resistant to change'? Surely electing a new MP representing a party that has changed the face of world politics, would display the 'openness and raw energy' that you claim potential investors seek? You mean like voting for Oswald Mosley's New Party in the 1930s changed the face of world politics? As far as I'm aware the Labour MP, Oswald Mosley, didn't achieve much at all when he founded the New Party. Unlike UKIP.
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Post by nicholasjalcock on Feb 9, 2017 17:59:22 GMT
You mean like voting for Oswald Mosley's New Party in the 1930s changed the face of world politics? As far as I'm aware the Labour MP, Oswald Mosley, didn't achieve much at all when he founded the New Party. Unlike UKIP. He achieved more than Nigel Farage did! He became a M.P.! Or has Nigel made himself an honorary M.P. to go with his honorary role as Britain's Ambassador in Washington D.C.?
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Post by thevoid on Feb 9, 2017 18:02:13 GMT
Why should the Tories bother with Stoke when it's full of bitter little Labour bigots? is that the local conservative candidate's slogan? No, that's 'Stoke-on-Trent- Labour's graveyard of ambition'.
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Post by countofmontecristo on Feb 9, 2017 18:08:13 GMT
As far as I'm aware the Labour MP, Oswald Mosley, didn't achieve much at all when he founded the New Party. Unlike UKIP. He achieved more than Nigel Farage did! He became a M.P.! Or has Nigel made himself an honorary M.P. to go with his honorary role as Britain's Ambassador in Washington D.C.? HaHa! Farage has achieved more than any other British politician of his generation and will be a hugely significant historical figure - whether you like it or not. Are you fed up of talking about Oswald Mosley (Honourable Labour MP for Smethwick) already?
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Post by nicholasjalcock on Feb 9, 2017 18:26:00 GMT
He achieved more than Nigel Farage did! He became a M.P.! Or has Nigel made himself an honorary M.P. to go with his honorary role as Britain's Ambassador in Washington D.C.? HaHa! Farage has achieved more than any other British politician of his generation and will be a hugely significant historical figure - whether you like it or not. Are you fed up of talking about Oswald Mosley (Honourable Labour MP for Smethwick) already? What Farage has achieved will be paid by us for a generation. We won't even have an idea as to the scale of the damage until the end of May's negotiations! I notice the Tories trust Farage so little, they won't let him a million miles near any responsibility for anything!
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Feb 9, 2017 19:07:35 GMT
HaHa! Farage has achieved more than any other British politician of his generation and will be a hugely significant historical figure - whether you like it or not. Are you fed up of talking about Oswald Mosley (Honourable Labour MP for Smethwick) already? What Farage has achieved will be paid by us for a generation. We won't even have an idea as to the scale of the damage until the end of May's negotiations! I notice the Tories trust Farage so little, they won't let him a million miles near any responsibility for anything! Cockers, Nige isn't an MP and isn't advising the Government. Of course the Conservatives haven't given him any responsibility. He's nowt to do with them.
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Feb 9, 2017 19:09:44 GMT
is that the local conservative candidate's slogan? No, that's 'Stoke-on-Trent- Labour's graveyard of ambition'. I'm sure that motto used to be on the City sign's ... just under "Nuclear Free Zone" :-)
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Post by countofmontecristo on Feb 9, 2017 19:10:28 GMT
HaHa! Farage has achieved more than any other British politician of his generation and will be a hugely significant historical figure - whether you like it or not. Are you fed up of talking about Oswald Mosley (Honourable Labour MP for Smethwick) already? What Farage has achieved will be paid by us for a generation. We won't even have an idea as to the scale of the damage until the end of May's negotiations! I notice the Tories trust Farage so little, they won't let him a million miles near any responsibility for anything! No one knows for certain how things will pan out after Brexit. Apart from you, obvs! The Tories are shit scared of Farage - no surprise they don't want to empower him.
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Post by nicholasjalcock on Feb 9, 2017 19:21:45 GMT
What Farage has achieved will be paid by us for a generation. We won't even have an idea as to the scale of the damage until the end of May's negotiations! I notice the Tories trust Farage so little, they won't let him a million miles near any responsibility for anything! No one knows for certain how things will pan out after Brexit. Apart from you, obvs! :-) The Tories are shit scared of Farage - no surprise they don't want to empower him. I've no idea what M/s May will negotiate. But the economy growing at ca. 2% a year is still 0.5% down on its usual rate. So, we will be running higher deficits at a time we don't spend enough on the N.H.S. and elderly care, amongst others. U.K.I.P. don't have solutions, just scapegoats! After the E.U. negotiations are over, you'll find more scapegoats!
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Post by countofmontecristo on Feb 9, 2017 19:57:53 GMT
No one knows for certain how things will pan out after Brexit. Apart from you, obvs! :-) The Tories are shit scared of Farage - no surprise they don't want to empower him. I've no idea what M/s May will negotiate. But the economy growing at ca. 2% a year is still 0.5% down on its usual rate. So, we will be running higher deficits at a time we don't spend enough on the N.H.S. and elderly care, amongst others. U.K.I.P. don't have solutions, just scapegoats! After the E.U. negotiations are over, you'll find more scapegoats! Economy growing at 2%? Wow that's amazing - I thought your lot said we'd be in recession by now? 😁
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Post by nicholasjalcock on Feb 9, 2017 20:19:09 GMT
I've no idea what M/s May will negotiate. But the economy growing at ca. 2% a year is still 0.5% down on its usual rate. So, we will be running higher deficits at a time we don't spend enough on the N.H.S. and elderly care, amongst others. U.K.I.P. don't have solutions, just scapegoats! After the E.U. negotiations are over, you'll find more scapegoats! Economy growing at 2%? Wow that's amazing - I thought your lot said we'd be in recession by now? 😁 No! The overwhelming consensus amongst economists then and now is that the U.K. will experience decade(s) of slower growth! That's higher taxes, less money for benefits incl. pensions, the military, the N.H.S. etc. I wonder if all the ukippers will be as brave if we ask them to make up the tax shortfall by putting their hands into their own pockets to make up the difference?
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Post by countofmontecristo on Feb 9, 2017 21:26:58 GMT
Economy growing at 2%? Wow that's amazing - I thought your lot said we'd be in recession by now? 😁 No! The overwhelming consensus amongst economists then and now is that the U.K. will experience decade(s) of slower growth! That's higher taxes, less money for benefits incl. pensions, the military, the N.H.S. etc. I wonder if all the ukippers will be as brave if we ask them to make up the tax shortfall by putting their hands into their own pockets to make up the difference? Why Ukippers? It was LABOUR voters who held the balance of power and swung the result for Brexit. A fact you ignore. Any predictions of future growth do not (and cannot) take account of the positive impacts of any trade deals we may make. They are therefore useless.
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Feb 9, 2017 21:33:52 GMT
Decades to come ??!! Osbourne predicted an emergency budget. Brown was chancellor for 10 years and didn't see the crash coming when he was PM. If you think you can predict what the economy will be like in decades to come then I'll show my arse on the Town Hall steps....
...again.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Feb 9, 2017 21:41:34 GMT
Economy growing at 2%? Wow that's amazing - I thought your lot said we'd be in recession by now? 😁 No! The overwhelming consensus amongst economists then and now is that the U.K. will experience decade(s) of slower growth! That's higher taxes, less money for benefits incl. pensions, the military, the N.H.S. etc. I wonder if all the ukippers will be as brave if we ask them to make up the tax shortfall by putting their hands into their own pockets to make up the difference? I wonder if those who welcome uncontrolled mass immigration will offer a place in their house and contribute to the extra costs of housing , health,education and other pressures on the infrastructure. Why not contribute to the costs of an EU army ( what's that has got to do with a trading block, I've no idea (, world wide embassies and the bureaucracy of the failed experiment , as well as supporting the failing Euro. The prominent Labour stars, Kinnocks and Mandelson have done" alright " out of the EU. It's a con trick.
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Post by crapslinger on Feb 9, 2017 21:57:23 GMT
No! The overwhelming consensus amongst economists then and now is that the U.K. will experience decade(s) of slower growth! That's higher taxes, less money for benefits incl. pensions, the military, the N.H.S. etc. I wonder if all the ukippers will be as brave if we ask them to make up the tax shortfall by putting their hands into their own pockets to make up the difference? Why Ukippers? It was LABOUR voters who held the balance of power and swung the result for Brexit. A fact you ignore. Any predictions of future growth do not (and cannot) take account of the positive impacts of any trade deals we may make. They are therefore useless. Indeed it was definitely historical Labour voters who carried Brexit over the line in England and Wales, this fact is conveniently ignored by the remoaners, it was a vote not based on any political preference but one based on the future we were facing in the dictatorial EU. The leaders of the Tory party, Labour party and the Liberals campaigned to remain, they are so out of touch with the feelings of the common man/woman their arrogance was astounding
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Post by followyoudown on Feb 9, 2017 22:00:44 GMT
Decades to come ??!! Osbourne predicted an emergency budget. Brown was chancellor for 10 years and didn't see the crash coming when he was PM. If you think you can l predict what the economy will be like in decades to come then I'll show my arse on the Town Hall steps.... ...again. Decades ahead they struggle with next year, they do say God invented economists to make weather forecasters look good.
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Post by followyoudown on Feb 9, 2017 22:04:31 GMT
No! The overwhelming consensus amongst economists then and now is that the U.K. will experience decade(s) of slower growth! That's higher taxes, less money for benefits incl. pensions, the military, the N.H.S. etc. I wonder if all the ukippers will be as brave if we ask them to make up the tax shortfall by putting their hands into their own pockets to make up the difference? I wonder if those who welcome uncontrolled mass immigration will offer a place in their house and contribute to the extra costs of housing , health,education and other pressures on the infrastructure. Why not contribute to the costs of an EU army ( what's that has got to do with a trading block, I've no idea (, world wide embassies and the bureaucracy of the failed experiment , as well as supporting the failing Euro. The prominent Labour stars, Kinnocks and Mandelson have done" alright " out of the EU. It's a con trick. Fascinating program on the BBC just After Brexit The Battle for Europe, there really is europe wide dissatisfaction and it's quite clear the Euro army etc is just the Eurocrats seeing it as a now or never chance to integrate so much that it will be nearly impossible to separate.
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Post by nicholasjalcock on Feb 10, 2017 7:46:12 GMT
No! The overwhelming consensus amongst economists then and now is that the U.K. will experience decade(s) of slower growth! That's higher taxes, less money for benefits incl. pensions, the military, the N.H.S. etc. I wonder if all the ukippers will be as brave if we ask them to make up the tax shortfall by putting their hands into their own pockets to make up the difference? Why Ukippers? It was LABOUR voters who held the balance of power and swung the result for Brexit. A fact you ignore. Any predictions of future growth do not (and cannot) take account of the positive impacts of any trade deals we may make. They are therefore useless. No, it is a lie that a majority of Labour voters voted for 'Brexit". It was a majority of Conservatives who voted for 'Brexit'! This has been demonstrated many times and ukippers keep telling the same lies doesn't make them true! True, forecasts can't take into account any positive impact trade deals will have. They also can't take into account any negative impact either. Trump says all his trade deals will put America First so don't expect any favours there!
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Post by nicholasjalcock on Feb 10, 2017 7:53:12 GMT
Decades to come ??!! Osbourne predicted an emergency budget. Brown was chancellor for 10 years and didn't see the crash coming when he was PM. If you think you can l predict what the economy will be like in decades to come then I'll show my arse on the Town Hall steps.... ...again. Decades ahead they struggle with next year, they do say God invented economists to make weather forecasters look good. It isn't a case of decades to come, the slowdown in the economy has occurred last year and this year! This is despite big spending on credit cards! So, it is happening now! I find it fascinating that 'followyoudown''s Tory Party invented the OBR to provide forecasts for future budgets. I assume, the Tories are so convinced that these forecasts are worthless, M/s May will now stand up in parliament and announce she is disbanding it?
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Post by nicholasjalcock on Feb 10, 2017 8:04:28 GMT
No! The overwhelming consensus amongst economists then and now is that the U.K. will experience decade(s) of slower growth! That's higher taxes, less money for benefits incl. pensions, the military, the N.H.S. etc. I wonder if all the ukippers will be as brave if we ask them to make up the tax shortfall by putting their hands into their own pockets to make up the difference? I wonder if those who welcome uncontrolled mass immigration will offer a place in their house and contribute to the extra costs of housing , health,education and other pressures on the infrastructure. Why not contribute to the costs of an EU army ( what's that has got to do with a trading block, I've no idea (, world wide embassies and the bureaucracy of the failed experiment , as well as supporting the failing Euro. The prominent Labour stars, Kinnocks and Mandelson have done" alright " out of the EU. It's a con trick. It has been conclusively shown that migration has a net contribution to the economy! Young, well-educated people who want to work! We've got an ageing population that doesn't work, needs medical and social care. It's taxes from young workers that is paying for this! How is it Farage and all the U.K.I.P. M.E.P.s don't count as having done "alright" out of the E.U.? They have some of the worst attendance records and benefit from all the salaries, expenses and perks! We've decided to Trigger Article 50 yet Farage and his U.K.I.P. mates won't give up their lavish lifestyle? U.K.I.P. have always got an excuse to stay on the E.U. gravy train!
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Post by countofmontecristo on Feb 10, 2017 8:08:34 GMT
Why Ukippers? It was LABOUR voters who held the balance of power and swung the result for Brexit. A fact you ignore. Any predictions of future growth do not (and cannot) take account of the positive impacts of any trade deals we may make. They are therefore useless. No, it is a lie that a majority of Labour voters voted for 'Brexit". It was a majority of Conservatives who voted for 'Brexit'! This has been demonstrated many times and ukippers keep telling the same lies doesn't make them true! True, forecasts can't take into account any positive impact trade deals will have. They also can't take into account any negative impact either. Trump says all his trade deals will put America First so don't expect any favours there! 1. I never said that a ' majority' of Labour voters voted to Leave. Approx 1 in 3 traditional Labour voters could see through the shit-fog created by Remain and voted to Leave. It was these enlightened souls that swung the vote and changed history. And you have just been caught twisting the facts (lying?). 2. Thanks for confirming that the forecasts are useless.
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Post by Mendicant on Feb 10, 2017 8:14:43 GMT
I wonder if those who welcome uncontrolled mass immigration will offer a place in their house and contribute to the extra costs of housing , health,education and other pressures on the infrastructure. Why not contribute to the costs of an EU army ( what's that has got to do with a trading block, I've no idea (, world wide embassies and the bureaucracy of the failed experiment , as well as supporting the failing Euro. The prominent Labour stars, Kinnocks and Mandelson have done" alright " out of the EU. It's a con trick. It has been conclusively shown that migration has a net contribution to the economy! Young, well-educated people who want to work! We've got an ageing population that doesn't work, needs medical and social care. It's taxes from young workers that is paying for this! How is it Farage and all the U.K.I.P. M.E.P.s don't count as having done "alright" out of the E.U.? They have some of the worst attendance records and benefit from all the salaries, expenses and perks! We've decided to Trigger Article 50 yet Farage and his U.K.I.P. mates won't give up their lavish lifestyle? U.K.I.P. have always got an excuse to stay on the E.U. gravy train! Blimey ashalaff sit down for a minute cuz I'm in shock at finding myself in complete agreement with Alcock. Give me a minute... Spot on youth! Spot. On. Tax contributions by a rejuvenated workforce and the funding of pensions explains a lot about immigration.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Feb 10, 2017 8:16:25 GMT
I wonder if those who welcome uncontrolled mass immigration will offer a place in their house and contribute to the extra costs of housing , health,education and other pressures on the infrastructure. Why not contribute to the costs of an EU army ( what's that has got to do with a trading block, I've no idea (, world wide embassies and the bureaucracy of the failed experiment , as well as supporting the failing Euro. The prominent Labour stars, Kinnocks and Mandelson have done" alright " out of the EU. It's a con trick. It has been conclusively shown that migration has a net contribution to the economy! Young, well-educated people who want to work! We've got an ageing population that doesn't work, needs medical and social care. It's taxes from young workers that is paying for this! How is it Farage and all the U.K.I.P. M.E.P.s don't count as having done "alright" out of the E.U.? They have some of the worst attendance records and benefit from all the salaries, expenses and perks! We've decided to Trigger Article 50 yet Farage and his U.K.I.P. mates won't give up their lavish lifestyle? U.K.I.P. have always got an excuse to stay on the E.U. gravy train! You are wrong on the exclusive proof, there is clearly a drain on UK resources which is partly fuelled by demand. Farage and Ukip have been the most effective UK politicians of the 21st century to date, having achieved their goal. Money well spent, (he even instigated the removal of Cameron, something that the ineffective Labour could not achieve).......but I thought the thread was about the equitable Labour party
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Post by nicholasjalcock on Feb 10, 2017 8:31:39 GMT
It has been conclusively shown that migration has a net contribution to the economy! Young, well-educated people who want to work! We've got an ageing population that doesn't work, needs medical and social care. It's taxes from young workers that is paying for this! How is it Farage and all the U.K.I.P. M.E.P.s don't count as having done "alright" out of the E.U.? They have some of the worst attendance records and benefit from all the salaries, expenses and perks! We've decided to Trigger Article 50 yet Farage and his U.K.I.P. mates won't give up their lavish lifestyle? U.K.I.P. have always got an excuse to stay on the E.U. gravy train! You are wrong on the exclusive proof, there is clearly a drain on UK resources which is partly fuelled by demand. Farage and Ukip have been the most effective UK politicians of the 21st century to date, having achieved their goal. Money well spent, (he even instigated the removal of Cameron, something that the ineffective Labour could not achieve).......but I thought the thread was about the equitable Labour party No, it is a lie that U.K.I.P. perpetuates that migrants don't make a net positive contribution? In my flats, I have lived with a white Brit who hasn't done a days work in ca. 30 years. He has been a very regular visitor to Her Majesty's Hotels. His net cost to the British Exchequer runs into millions of pounds and he's only into his fifties! Now, if you think Farage and U.K.I.P. are effective by damaging our economy, are you personally going to make up the financial shortfall for my fellow flat owner's benefits, state pension, holidays in Brixton/Belmarsh et al etc.?
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Feb 10, 2017 8:32:32 GMT
I wonder if those who welcome uncontrolled mass immigration will offer a place in their house and contribute to the extra costs of housing , health,education and other pressures on the infrastructure. Why not contribute to the costs of an EU army ( what's that has got to do with a trading block, I've no idea (, world wide embassies and the bureaucracy of the failed experiment , as well as supporting the failing Euro. The prominent Labour stars, Kinnocks and Mandelson have done" alright " out of the EU. It's a con trick. It has been conclusively shown that migration has a net contribution to the economy! Young, well-educated people who want to work! We've got an ageing population that doesn't work, needs medical and social care. It's taxes from young workers that is paying for this! How is it Farage and all the U.K.I.P. M.E.P.s don't count as having done "alright" out of the E.U.? They have some of the worst attendance records and benefit from all the salaries, expenses and perks! We've decided to Trigger Article 50 yet Farage and his U.K.I.P. mates won't give up their lavish lifestyle? U.K.I.P. have always got an excuse to stay on the E.U. gravy train! From the late great Tony Benn: ( no real point in attending the EU parliament...I can confirm this having been a few times myself) "When I saw how the European Union was developing, it was very obvious that what they had in mind was not democratic. I mean, in Britain you vote for the government and therefore the government has to listen to you, and if you don’t like it you can change it. But in Europe all the key positions are appointed, not elected – the Commission, for example. All appointed, not one of them elected." www.google.co.uk/amp/s/semipartisansam.com/2016/03/03/tony-benn-and-the-left-wing-case-for-brexit/amp/
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Feb 10, 2017 8:34:52 GMT
You are wrong on the exclusive proof, there is clearly a drain on UK resources which is partly fuelled by demand. Farage and Ukip have been the most effective UK politicians of the 21st century to date, having achieved their goal. Money well spent, (he even instigated the removal of Cameron, something that the ineffective Labour could not achieve).......but I thought the thread was about the equitable Labour party No, it is a lie that U.K.I.P. perpetuates that migrants don't make a net positive contribution? In my flats, I have lived with a white Brit who hasn't done a days work in ca. 30 years. He has been a very regular visitor to Her Majesty's Hotels. His net cost to the British Exchequer runs into millions of pounds and he's only into his fifties! Now, if you think Farage and U.K.I.P. are effective by damaging our economy, are you personally going to make up the financial shortfall for my fellow flat owner's benefits, state pension, holidays in Brixton/Belmarsh et al etc.? I don't know if you have noticed but we already have an housing and health service crisis in this country NOW. One cause of this is too much demand on the services. In respect of trade prospects that is what we make of the opportunities , as a free, sovereign, self governing country....how it develops in the future is conjecture( as is the future of the EU that you worship and the Euro) As different perspective: (By the way the issue is...who CONTROLS immigration, NOT the merits of it )
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