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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2017 17:25:22 GMT
Now he can't cheat in our area on corners and free kicks by pretty much rugby tackling the opposing players down,(I'm not sayin he was the only defender to do it) but do u think now he's been found out that he's not the good defender that we thought he was!?! For me, Muniesa needs to get back in the team, and drop shawcross! This is a forum for reasoned open debate, not a place for abusive and disrespectful and (in my opinion ) stupid posts You off to Oldham Tommorrow ? Happy New Year but behave like an adult please
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2017 17:26:09 GMT
Now he can't cheat in our area on corners and free kicks by pretty much rugby tackling the opposing players down,(I'm not sayin he was the only defender to do it) but do u think now he's been found out that he's not the good defender that we thought he was!?! For me, Muniesa needs to get back in the team, and drop shawcross!
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Post by lordb on Jan 1, 2017 17:27:40 GMT
Under TP, Ryan got better and better with every season that passed. Under Hughes, Ryan has got worse with every season. Is that really Ryan's fault?? His best seasons were Hughes first two. I.e. before his back problems.
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Post by blackpoolred on Jan 1, 2017 17:29:40 GMT
Now he can't cheat in our area on corners and free kicks by pretty much rugby tackling the opposing players down,(I'm not sayin he was the only defender to do it) but do u think now he's been found out that he's not the good defender that we thought he was!?! For me, Muniesa needs to get back in the team, and drop shawcross! He is and has been the best defender we have had at our club for many a year. Class is permanent and form temporary - whenever he has had a bad couple of games he tends to comes back stronger and has had some decent games since he has come back from injury. The fact that he has to play him even when he is not fit(as with Indie & Pieters) is down to there being absolutely no alternatives whatsoever. This needs to change in the next window. Muni did really well in his recent games in that position, but for me at 5ft 10 and 6 stone when wet is never going to be the permanent answer in that position - he would and has struggled with the physical side of the game in that position
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Jan 1, 2017 17:41:03 GMT
any player in the center of a back 3 would look shit when at most parts of the game instead of a back 3 it looks like we have 1 centerhalf and 4 wingbacks and a midfield who let runners past them instead of tracking their runners. back 3 doesn't work unless the players really know what their doing, we have a striker playing wingback. a perfect wingback in Johnson playin centerhalf, ryans never played in a back 3 and looks isolated and Bruno to be fair is doing ok and pieters has no cover on the left at all when arnie doesn't play. I'm a fan of the 3 when done well, and we did do it pretty well v Watford and for parts of Leicester, Pool, Chelsea. I think individual errors were/are more of an issue than the system. But I agree with your observations, bang on. I think Bruno in the middle would solve a lot of the defensive issues. It needs tweaking a bit, not ditching, and Arnie back is a bonus. I do think Diouf at wing back has put a smile on his footballing face, maybe relieving a bit of the scoring pressure is allowing him to rekindle his love for the game. Dunno. I think he's doing really well. If's and but's but if Bony could have kicked on from the Swansea game {I thought he'd kicked the rust off} it would be less of an issue. A bit like the Moses situation at Chelsea.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2017 17:53:07 GMT
Ryan is enjoying the 3 at the back formation, according to the manager.
I doubt it.
Clearly we have started "defending" zonally because we can't get away with the old man-to-man marking that we used to be good at. It's a fucking disaster.
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Post by Cast no shadow on Jan 1, 2017 18:51:59 GMT
Sl&p were right, his heads gone
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Post by dieguito88 on Jan 1, 2017 21:32:48 GMT
Mentally but more phisically is not the same player as 2 - 3 seasons ago when literally was our best defender. We need a young better version, maybe a mix between him and muni.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Jan 1, 2017 21:36:09 GMT
Under TP, Ryan got better and better with every season that passed. Under Hughes, Ryan has got worse with every season. Is that really Ryan's fault?? His best seasons were Hughes first two. I.e. before his back problems. Bang on the money there!
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Post by Olgrligm on Jan 1, 2017 21:49:33 GMT
For the entirety of Hughes' reign, he's been asked to do the job of four other defenders, while disaster prone part timers like Wilson and Cameron generally bumbled about and created trouble.
He's now being asked to do the same job, but he's also recovering from a serious operation and some niggle leg injuries. It's a miracle that he's even out there.
I don't see Indi getting the same stick for his last few dire performances, or Johnson for his hapless antics at centre back. The problems are much wider than what's going on in defence. Look at how useless our midfield is without Whelan and Cameron to shore things up. Look at how we persist with a system that suits none of our players.
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Post by swampySCFC on Jan 2, 2017 0:02:16 GMT
Might be helpful if he as a CH weighed in with the occasional goal. Might have been better keeping Huth and selling Ryan
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2017 0:08:22 GMT
Might be helpful if he as a CH weighed in with the occasional goal. Might have been better keeping Huth and selling Ryan He could certainly take a leaf out of Gary 'The Beast' Cahill's book when it comes to attacking a set piece. Yes, sarcasm was intended. Ryan was once capable of attacking a dead ball. Now, if he gets near at all, it doesn't seem to be with the same intent. The lad's a man-mountain - he needs to use that.
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Post by peterthornesboots on Jan 2, 2017 1:43:52 GMT
Against Southampton Ryan was outstanding - questioning his ability at this juncture seems very premature.
He's had a dodgy month and made some mistakes.
Having said that, he looks half the player he normally is when he plays on a back three.
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Post by kustokie on Jan 2, 2017 2:36:35 GMT
Now he can't cheat in our area on corners and free kicks by pretty much rugby tackling the opposing players down,(I'm not sayin he was the only defender to do it) but do u think now he's been found out that he's not the good defender that we thought he was!?! For me, Muniesa needs to get back in the team, and drop shawcross! He is and has been the best defender we have had at our club for many a year. Class is permanent and form temporary - whenever he has had a bad couple of games he tends to comes back stronger and has had some decent games since he has come back from injury. The fact that he has to play him even when he is not fit(as with Indie & Pieters) is down to there being absolutely no alternatives whatsoever. This needs to change in the next window. Muni did really well in his recent games in that position, but for me at 5ft 10 and 6 stone when wet is never going to be the permanent answer in that position - he would and has struggled with the physical side of the game in that position Class is permanent, form is temporary is not true from a statistical perspective. Class and form are actually the main two factors to contribute to ability. Class over time is bell shaped and peaks at different times for different players but is typically around the mid- to late-twenties (obviously, class is a very low value at age 5 and very low again around age 55). Form is simply short-term noise that has peaks and troughs superimposed on the class/time relationship.
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Post by blackpoolred on Jan 2, 2017 10:09:48 GMT
He is and has been the best defender we have had at our club for many a year. Class is permanent and form temporary - whenever he has had a bad couple of games he tends to comes back stronger and has had some decent games since he has come back from injury. The fact that he has to play him even when he is not fit(as with Indie & Pieters) is down to there being absolutely no alternatives whatsoever. This needs to change in the next window. Muni did really well in his recent games in that position, but for me at 5ft 10 and 6 stone when wet is never going to be the permanent answer in that position - he would and has struggled with the physical side of the game in that position Class is permanent, form is temporary is not true from a statistical perspective. Class and form are actually the main two factors to contribute to ability. Class over time is bell shaped and peaks at different times for different players but is typically around the mid- to late-twenties (obviously, class is a very low value at age 5 and very low again around age 55). Form is simply short-term noise that has peaks and troughs superimposed on the class/time relationship. I knew we had supporters from all over the world, but not from all over the Galaxy Let me ask you this, would would win if there was a match between 11 out-of-form Messi's and 11 in form Palacios's Anyway, I hope you come in peace time traveller
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Post by WhyDelilah on Jan 2, 2017 10:24:24 GMT
I think our captain has come in for a bit of unfair stick in recent weeks. In fact, I think most of the back 5 are suffering as a result of the team getting arse raped on a regular basis.
It isn't all down to those 5. Yes, Ryan (and others) have made individual errors and everyone is accountable. Having said that, the team is in a complete mess at the moment. There is no shape to the side and no semblance of any understanding between the players whatsoever.
The second we revert back to 4 at the back I'm sure you will see an improvement to the performances. That improvement will immediately take pressure off our back 5. Being put under the cosh constantly for the majority of games will ultimately lead to goals conceded and, as we are seeing, mistakes being made at the back as they face the onslaught of the alamo every match.
They're getting little support or protection from those in front of them at times either. And those responsible for creating and scoring at the other end are chronically underpeforming too.
Still, the focus remains on our back 5.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 2, 2017 10:26:23 GMT
He's played really well on the whole this season.
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Post by skip on Jan 2, 2017 10:53:06 GMT
Under TP, Ryan got better and better with every season that passed. Under Hughes, Ryan has got worse with every season. Is that really Ryan's fault?? If there's any way you could prove this theorem by drawing a bell curve diagram with key information strands built in to substantiate this claim that would be great.
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Post by Vermelho20312505 on Jan 2, 2017 11:00:46 GMT
This is one of the saddest threads I've ever read on here (and there have been a few).
Regardless of whether I agree or not that Shawcross has been playing well the attitudes of some "fans" disgusts me. Ryan is a living legend and I'm not one who uses these terms lightly. He has played more games for Stoke City in our 154 year history than all but about 18 others. And has been without doubt the best defender we have had since the 1970s.
He is a thoroughly honest and likeable man who represents our great club with class and dignity. He had NEVER let any of us down with his comments or off field behaviour and despite being unfairly vilified by the London press cartel has continued to play on without responding.
Overy the 10 years he has been here he has almost every season warranted consideration as a potential player of the year. He is as responsible as anyone for our return to the top flight and these glorious years we have been enjoying.
I hope that he doesn't read this rubbish and questons why he is still here. He should be lauded everywhere he goes in our city and even IF he continues to decline then I pray the club and supporters treat him with the respect, love and loyalty he has given to us.
Our club no longer disrepects it's legends as it did decades ago with Matthews, Soo, Franklin etc. We are one.
Thank you Ryan. I hope and believe that you'll be an integral part of my club for years to come. I for one will never forget what you have given and continue to give.
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Post by jeycov on Jan 2, 2017 11:14:41 GMT
The fans and a number of our important players are low on confidence at the moment. We've had a good moan, now is the time to cheer up, get behind the team even if there are a few more " howlers" to endure. Happy New Year, let's hope we make a good start
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Post by stokiemart83 on Jan 2, 2017 11:20:29 GMT
This is one of the saddest threads I've ever read on here (and there have been a few). Regardless of whether I agree or not that Shawcross has been playing well the attitudes of some "fans" disgusts me. Ryan is a living legend and I'm not one who uses these terms lightly. He has played more games for Stoke City in our 154 year history than all but about 18 others. And has been without doubt the best defender we have had since the 1970s. He is a thoroughly honest and likeable man who represents our great club with class and dignity. He had NEVER let any of us down with his comments or off field behaviour and despite being unfairly vilified by the London press cartel has continued to play on without responding. Overy the 10 years he has been here he has almost every season warranted consideration as a potential player of the year. He is as responsible as anyone for our return to the top flight and these glorious years we have been enjoying. I hope that he doesn't read this rubbish and questons why he is still here. He should be lauded everywhere he goes in our city and even IF he continues to decline then I pray the club and supporters treat him with the respect, love and loyalty he has given to us. Our club no longer disrepects it's legends as it did decades ago with Matthews, Soo, Franklin etc. We are one. Thank you Ryan. I hope and believe that you'll be an integral part of my club for years to come. I for one will never forget what you have given and continue to give.
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Post by londonstokie17 on Jan 2, 2017 11:26:07 GMT
If it was any other player they'd have been dropped by now. Hughes is pretty ruthless elsewhere on the pitch. One bad game or one error leading to a goal and you usually find yourself on the bench. You'd bet your house Ryan starts tomorrow though.
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Post by stokiemart83 on Jan 2, 2017 11:30:31 GMT
I do agree with alot of what you've said there vermelho, shawcross is a legend! And has done alot for us over the years including gettin us into the top flight! My point is, just since this new rule about not being able to grapple players in our area has come in, he just can't seem to defend set pieces anymore!?!, and his defending has been questionable! I know he's had problems with his back over the past couple of years, but we can't just keep blaming it on that! Be loyal, Be proud, Be Stoke!!! Hopefully he comes up with a goal tomorrow, he's due one!😃
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Post by Old School Stokie on Jan 2, 2017 11:45:50 GMT
Big question. Would you have him I'mn your fantasy side. Bet you 100% no no no
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Post by kustokie on Jan 2, 2017 11:49:27 GMT
Class is permanent, form is temporary is not true from a statistical perspective. Class and form are actually the main two factors to contribute to ability. Class over time is bell shaped and peaks at different times for different players but is typically around the mid- to late-twenties (obviously, class is a very low value at age 5 and very low again around age 55). Form is simply short-term noise that has peaks and troughs superimposed on the class/time relationship. I knew we had supporters from all over the world, but not from all over the Galaxy Let me ask you this, would would win if there was a match between 11 out-of-form Messi's and 11 in form Palacios's Anyway, I hope you come in peace time traveller I ran a Monte Carlo simulation and the score would be about 25-0 for the Messi team, because the Palacios team would run out of puff after about 25-30 minutes.
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Post by kustokie on Jan 2, 2017 11:51:49 GMT
I do agree with alot of what you've said there vermelho, shawcross is a legend! And has done alot for us over the years including gettin us into the top flight! My point is, just since this new rule about not being able to grapple players in our area has come in, he just can't seem to defend set pieces anymore!?!, and his defending has been questionable! I know he's had problems with his back over the past couple of years, but we can't just keep blaming it on that! Be loyal, Be proud, Be Stoke!!! Hopefully he comes up with a goal tomorrow, he's due one!😃 I wouldn't bet on it. When did he last score with his head? The last goal I can remember was against the Shit on New Years Day two years ago and that was a volley.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2017 11:51:52 GMT
Ryan is a massive credit to Stoke, he's our club captain and is the best defender we have without a doubt he's just having a bad spell.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2017 11:58:48 GMT
It would really help if Hughes stopped pissing about with the formation and personnel.
Ryan has always done best in a flat back four and we should revert to that system. Ryan has carried the defence throughout Hughes tenure when it is patently obvious that they do absolutely no work on shape or defending in training.
He was fantastic against Southampton and talk of his demise is premature. What we need to do is stick to our best eleven and play it consistently rather than this constant chopping and changing. IMO Hughes is having a nightmare at the moment and any credit he had is very close to being used up.
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Post by cozmick on Jan 2, 2017 12:02:57 GMT
Ryan "Mr Stoke City FC" Shawcross as i like to call him.
The greatest centre back this club has ever seen....... Is having a rough patch.
His demise this season is down to Hughes, plain and simple.
Bought back from injury too early, in a back 3 formation...... Almost "doing a woy" on him.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2017 12:10:22 GMT
This is one of the saddest threads I've ever read on here (and there have been a few). Regardless of whether I agree or not that Shawcross has been playing well the attitudes of some "fans" disgusts me. Ryan is a living legend and I'm not one who uses these terms lightly. He has played more games for Stoke City in our 154 year history than all but about 18 others. And has been without doubt the best defender we have had since the 1970s. He is a thoroughly honest and likeable man who represents our great club with class and dignity. He had NEVER let any of us down with his comments or off field behaviour and despite being unfairly vilified by the London press cartel has continued to play on without responding. Overy the 10 years he has been here he has almost every season warranted consideration as a potential player of the year. He is as responsible as anyone for our return to the top flight and these glorious years we have been enjoying. I hope that he doesn't read this rubbish and questons why he is still here. He should be lauded everywhere he goes in our city and even IF he continues to decline then I pray the club and supporters treat him with the respect, love and loyalty he has given to us. Our club no longer disrepects it's legends as it did decades ago with Matthews, Soo, Franklin etc. We are one. Thank you Ryan. I hope and believe that you'll be an integral part of my club for years to come. I for one will never forget what you have given and continue to give. Agree with every word of that. But to add I am certain Ryan will recapture the form we have come to take completely for granted, he's that kind of character. How some fans can be so disparaging to one of the finest servants we've ever had is baffling.....
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