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Post by ukcstokie on Apr 10, 2016 23:21:13 GMT
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Post by mumf on Apr 10, 2016 23:41:18 GMT
I don't subscribe to the notion that you need a black presenter to ensure that a TV program is balanced , but can clearly see the methodology behind such a move . It's a sign of the times . Having said that I think he's very good at what he does .
In relation to the figures produced , well there will obviously be a counter claim of lies and inaccuracy .
There will also be those of us who will be strongly opposed to the findings regardless .
I have seen very similar studies produced over the years and the only thing that I find surprising is that the figures are so low compared to what I have seen in the past .
Suffice to say that you don't have to be a rocket scientist to see the large ethnic gap in terms of integration across certain sections of society .
A fact brought home to me tonight at the ELO concert in Manchester where the vast majority of punters were white , whilst the majority walking the streets on the way to the venue were not .
As to the original point ...What can we do to change this ?
As Paul Daniels once said " Not a lot " .
Their culture and religious indoctrination ( brainwashing ) is far more entrenched in their society , but we left ours behind some 40 years ago .
I personally don't have a lot of time to waste on religion and as a result treat such people with a certain mount of mistrust and contempt because I don't believe in any religious teachings or gospel .
I prefer to stroke my dogs .
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Post by turtlefox on Apr 11, 2016 0:09:08 GMT
Doesn't sound very concerning, sounds like they're learning. If this poll was taken 100 years ago, every answer would be 100% not 1 in 3 or 4, apart from the terrorism because it wasn't there. Shows how Muslim attitudes are changing, to me anyway.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Apr 11, 2016 7:06:39 GMT
The vast majority of Muslims in this country are peace loving and are not a threat. Their wish is just to get on with life (much like the "white" working class ) unfortunately allows other more sinister developments within their communities. There is a real fear within the Muslim community, I have had several Muslims discuss issues with me openly in private but have admitted that they would not dare to speak out publicly within their community.The ideology of Islam is a threat to Western values AND fellow Muslims. There is a division between Shia and Sunni within this country which may raise its head in the future. The article below illustrates how the ideology instils fear, fear to be an individual, fear to think for yourself and fear to reach out to 'the western infidels' It is a real fear and control which can result in death to you (by "you" I mean for the moderate Muslim perspective) your family: Why some British Muslims are calling for the death of other British Muslims By Max Bearak April 8 A vigil is held outside the shop where Asad Shah worked in Glasgow on March 26. Scottish police say the killing of the Muslim shopkeeper who wished Christians a happy Easter is being investigated as “religiously prejudiced.” (John Linton/PA via AP) Last month, after being offended by a tweet, Tanweer Ahmed traveled 200 miles in an Uber car from Bradford, in England, to Glasgow, in Scotland. The seemingly innocuous, even heartfelt tweet was written by Asad Shah, and wished his adopted countrymen a happy Easter. Ahmed waited for 40-year-old Shah to leave the convenience store in Glasgow where he worked, then stabbed him 30 times, stamped on his head, and sat on his chest while Shah lay unconscious, authorities allege. Shah died of his wounds later that night. The hatred that Ahmed, 32, apparently felt for Shah wasn't because of his kind words about Christians, but because Shah was a member of the small and long-persecuted sect of Muslims called the Ahmadiyya. This week, leaflets have been found in universities, mosques and shopping centers across London advocating that each Ahmadiyya be given three days to "get back into the Islamic fold. If he does not, he will be awarded capital punishment." The leaflets refer to Ahmadiyyas as "Qadianis," which is considered pejorative by the Ahmadiyya, who are also known as Ahmadis or Ahmedis. The term is a reference to the town of Qadian, in India's state of Punjab, where Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was born. Ahmad, who lived in pre-Partition India at the turn of the 20th century, claimed that he was the foretold Mahdi, or Messiah, but most Muslims believe Muhammad to be the final prophet. For these beliefs, Ahmad's followers have been shunned, particularly in Pakistan, where their numbers are highest. The Pakistani state forbids them by law from claiming to be Muslim. Hundreds have been murdered or killed in terrorist attacks there in the past few years alone. Leaflets like these have been distributed before, according to leaders of Britain's Ahmadiyya community, but after Shah's slaying, they have added to a growing sense of unease in a country many have found to be an asylum. This new iteration, obtained by IBTimes UK, says Ahmadiyyas are "worse than apostates" because they present themselves as Muslims. The leaflets were made by an organization called Khatm-e-Nubuwwat, which means "Finality of Prophethood" in Arabic. In a recent column reacting to Shah's killing, British anti-extremism activist Maajid Nawaz writes that intolerance of the Ahmadiyya is on the rise there, and much of it tied to anti-blasphemy fervor in Pakistan. Massive protests recently roiled Pakistan's capital, calling for, among other demands, the immediate execution of anyone proved to be blaspheming, which would include all Ahmadiyya. Imams of some of Britain's largest mosques have spoken in favor of the protests www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/04/08/why-some-british-muslims-are-calling-for-the-death-of-other-british-muslims/ALSO LISTEN TO "Deabandis" radio 4, 9.00 am tomorrow, it will be enlightening
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Apr 11, 2016 8:12:51 GMT
Anyone remember Salmon Rushdie?
How long ago was that?
A very dangerous precedent
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Apr 11, 2016 8:41:10 GMT
Rushdie has reported that he still receives a "sort of Valentine's card" from Iran each year on 14 February letting him know the country has not forgotten the vow to kill him. He said, "It's reached the point where it's a piece of rhetoric rather than a real threat." Despite the threats on Rushdie, he publicly said that his family had never been threatened and that his mother (who lived in Pakistan during the later years of her life) even received outpourings of support, although he also notes that he himself has been "banned" from entering Pakistan. Some of Rushdie's thoughts, he seems to get to the heart of the problem of Islam and the West, hence the fatwa; We need all of us, whatever our background, to constantly examine the stories inside which and with which we live. We all live in stories, so called grand narratives. Nation is a story. Family is a story. Religion is a story. Community is a story. We all live within and with these narratives. And it seems to me that a definition of any living vibrant society is that you constantly question those stories. That you constantly argue about the stories. In fact the arguing never stops. The argument itself is freedom. It's not that you come to a conclusion about it. And through that argument you change your mind sometimes. … And that's how societies grow. When you can't retell for yourself the stories of your life then you live in a prison. … Somebody else controls the story. … Now it seems to me that we have to say that a problem in contemporary Islam is the inability to re-examine the ground narrative of the religion. … The fact that in Islam it is very difficult to do this, makes it difficult to think new thoughts. Religion, a medieval form of unreason, when combined with modern weaponry becomes a real threat to our freedoms. This religious totalitarianism has caused a deadly mutation in the heart of Islam and we see the tragic consequences in Paris today. What is needed is a move beyond tradition, nothing less than a reform movement to bring the core concepts of Islam into the modern age, a Muslim Reformation to combat not only the jihadist ideologues but also the dusty, stifling seminaries of the traditionalists, throwing open the windows to let in much-needed fresh air. (…) It is high time, for starters, that Muslims were able to study the revelation of their religion as an event inside history, not supernaturally above it. (…) Broad-mindedness is related to tolerance; open-mindedness is the sibling of peace. "Salman Rushdie" on @wikipedia: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salman_Rushdie?wprov=sfta1
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Post by SamB_SCFC on Apr 11, 2016 8:44:09 GMT
All religion is stupid and only believed by the weak or the brainwashed. With all that science has taught us in the last 200 years and with all the conflict that religion causes there really is no excuse in the 21st century for still believing in this shite. That goes for all religions not just Islam which just happens to be the most militant right now.
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Post by MrFlirty on Apr 11, 2016 10:41:47 GMT
Or could be read as 60% of Muslims believe a wife should Not always obey her husband; • About half UK Muslims believe homosexuality should be legal • 75% of British Muslims don't want Islamic sharia law to replace British law • 66% of Muslims would inform police if they knew someone who was getting involved with people who support terrorism in Syria •66% Muslims would completely condemn STONING to death in adultery cases • 66% of Muslims condemn acts of violence against people who mock Mohammed Read more: oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/thread/256031/british-muslims#ixzz45Vt4sOjX
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2016 11:34:58 GMT
If the human race survives into the future, then I can only hope that those who are alive 500 years from now will look back at the religious plagues of the millennial times with a similar level of horror that we feel when we imagine back to the days of mass witch burnings and general Christian induced misery and terror that infected Europe in medieval times. Sadly though, I feel that the "If" at the start of this post is a big one.
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Post by thepremierbanksy on Apr 11, 2016 11:50:00 GMT
I don't subscribe to the notion that you need a black presenter to ensure that a TV program is balanced , but can clearly see the methodology behind such a move . It's a sign of the times . Having said that I think he's very good at what he does . In relation to the figures produced , well there will obviously be a counter claim of lies and inaccuracy . There will also be those of us who will be strongly opposed to the findings regardless . I have seen very similar studies produced over the years and the only thing that I find surprising is that the figures are so low compared to what I have seen in the past . Suffice to say that you don't have to be a rocket scientist to see the large ethnic gap in terms of integration across certain sections of society . A fact brought home to me tonight at the ELO concert in Manchester where the vast majority of punters were white , whilst the majority walking the streets on the way to the venue were not . As to the original point ...What can we do to change this ? As Paul Daniels once said " Not a lot " . Their culture and religious indoctrination ( brainwashing ) is far more entrenched in their society , but we left ours behind some 40 years ago . I personally don't have a lot of time to waste on religion and as a result treat such people with a certain mount of mistrust and contempt because I don't believe in any religious teachings or gospel . I prefer to stroke my dogs . I'm all for integration but expecting them to go to a fucking ELO gig is just outright unreasonable.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2016 12:24:03 GMT
You can not have 2 sets of laws in one place, there has to be common laws which all are bound to not chose which laws you want and know that the ones you don't want will be overlooked by the Police because you have set up no go areas and claim immunity from them on religious or cultural grounds.
It is the failings of our police and our government which have allowed these areas of "Not Britain" to be set up and prosper over the last 50 years in this country.
Every time I see taxi it is speeding, parked illegally or dumped on a garage/similar in an unauthorised taxi rank. NOTHING EVER DONE. DIFFERENT LAWS FOR THEM. Bedrooms and lofts knocked through with people crowded onto mattresses overcrowded and a fire and health hazard. NOTHING EVER DONE. DIFFERENT LAWS FOR THEM. Driving through the park in Audi R8s (decide for yourself why) NOTHING EVER DONE. DIFFERENT LAWS FOR THEM.
I hope and I pray (yes I believe in God when you young ones come close to death you will too) that their children learn to integrate with our children at school and eventually they become part of Britain.
But HEY they will not change if you keep turning a blind eye because you are scared of upsetting them.
Last I looked there were no Jewish terrorists, Catholic Terrorists either RC or Orthodox certainly no Buddhist Terrorists we even let Tom Cruise live hear with his church of Scientology and yet we have all of these people fully integrated into our society and dare I say most of us are pleased to have them here they have added to us not caused us a problem throughout our history.
Why is it we treat these people differently?
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Post by Rick Grimes on Apr 11, 2016 12:35:39 GMT
If the human race survives into the future, then I can only hope that those who are alive 500 years from now will look back at the religious plagues of the millennial times with a similar level of horror that we feel when we imagine back to the days of mass witch burnings and general Christian induced misery and terror that infected Europe in medieval times. Sadly though, I feel that the "If" at the start of this post is a big one. I'm certain that attitudes and beliefs will change in time. Just look at the shift in attitude towards religion and in particular Christianity in the UK, it's influence is declining and will continue to do so. Western societies can now claim a moral superiority but we've had to go through periods where attitudes, beliefs and opinions have been challenged and refined and things have changed (largely) for the better. You only have to look at the civil rights movement in the USA during the 60's and the fact that homosexuality has only been legal in the UK since 1967 to understand that Western societies haven't always had great moral convictions even in recent times.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2016 12:49:10 GMT
If the human race survives into the future, then I can only hope that those who are alive 500 years from now will look back at the religious plagues of the millennial times with a similar level of horror that we feel when we imagine back to the days of mass witch burnings and general Christian induced misery and terror that infected Europe in medieval times. Sadly though, I feel that the "If" at the start of this post is a big one. I'm certain that attitudes and beliefs will change in time. Just look at the shift in attitude towards religion and in particular Christianity in the UK, it's influence is declining and will continue to do so. Western societies can now claim a moral superiority but we've had to go through a periods where attitudes, beliefs and opinions have been challenged refined and things have changed (largely) for the better. You only have to look at the civil rights movement in the USA during the 60's and the fact that homosexuality has only been legal in the UK since 1967 to understand that Western societies haven't always had great moral convictions even in recent times. I agree that attitudes will change for the better with time. We differ though because I'm furious that, having been fortunate enough to have been born during a period of relative enlightenment, where the dust had settled on most of regressive attitudes of days gone by, we've now gone and imported a culture that is as incompatible to modern western sensibilities as dogmatic Christianity of medieval Europe would've been. Like you I do believe that, given time, things will change for the better and even the Muslim community will go through a large-scale secularisation process. (that's not a given though!) I'm just fucking furious that my one shot at existing in a time and place completely free of large-scale religious dogma has been stolen from me by the cunts in power who fail to represent me. If western Muslims go through a widespread secularisation process, a great deal of blood will've been shed and a great deal of time will've be spent before that process reaches the latter stages. By which time I will either be an old man or already gone.
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Apr 11, 2016 13:05:42 GMT
All religion is stupid and only believed by the weak or the brainwashed. With all that science has taught us in the last 200 years and with all the conflict that religion causes there really is no excuse in the 21st century for still believing in this shite. That goes for all religions not just Islam which just happens to be the most militant right now. Dr Johnson once said (100 years ago) that the problem with people who renounce religion..is that they replace it with something even more ridiculous. Most people need some 'belief system' whether it's God..Football..Spiritualism..Political Fanaticism..New Age codswallop etc etc And that is precisely the problem right now. Not religion but it's interpretation and replacement with pseudo religion. All in the name of God/Allah. Millions of people all over the world pray to their God. And some do a lot of good work. Far more than people who sit around moaning and doing fuck all about anything. To compare this with murderous thugs who use some God to legitimise murder rape & torture is a bit simplistic. But it always good to blame 'religion' for all the ills in the world instead of the people that cause them. And by doing so we fail to root out the cause of the problem and eradicate it.
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Post by metalhead on Apr 11, 2016 13:14:00 GMT
It's not just their views on gays and women that cause concern. Their views on rape are should concern literally everyone. Taharrush is a game they play. You won't read about it in the papers or hear about it on the BBC, because they're not willing to report on it, but in Germany it happened on New Years Eve and it's becoming very common in Egypt etc. Basically, it is a game (if you can call it that), where they surround a woman in a pub, or club, and while one or two of them will stand outside the circle distracting people, the woman inside will be raped repeatedly. This is what happened in Cologne and has sparked huge protests, but unsurprisingly, the BBC or Guardian aren't reporting on it at all.
I don't believe it's the moderate Western Muslim. These are the hardcore fundamentalists, many of whom have travelled from abroad. It's a worrying trend though and it's not something we want near our streets.
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Post by mickmillslovechild on Apr 12, 2016 16:23:41 GMT
It's not just their views on gays and women that cause concern. Their views on rape are should concern literally everyone. Taharrush is a game they play. You won't read about it in the papers or hear about it on the BBC, because they're not willing to report on it, but in Germany it happened on New Years Eve and it's becoming very common in Egypt etc. Basically, it is a game (if you can call it that), where they surround a woman in a pub, or club, and while one or two of them will stand outside the circle distracting people, the woman inside will be raped repeatedly. This is what happened in Cologne and has sparked huge protests, but unsurprisingly, the BBC or Guardian aren't reporting on it at all. I don't believe it's the moderate Western Muslim. These are the hardcore fundamentalists, many of whom have travelled from abroad. It's a worrying trend though and it's not something we want near our streets. not just muslims though is it? what about the gypsy "tradition" of grabbing which happens right here on our streets already? aren't they all god fearing christians? (not belittling your comment which is very valid, merely trying to restore some balance before the usual GDB witch hunt of all things Muslim begins)
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Post by metalhead on Apr 12, 2016 17:03:52 GMT
It's not just their views on gays and women that cause concern. Their views on rape are should concern literally everyone. Taharrush is a game they play. You won't read about it in the papers or hear about it on the BBC, because they're not willing to report on it, but in Germany it happened on New Years Eve and it's becoming very common in Egypt etc. Basically, it is a game (if you can call it that), where they surround a woman in a pub, or club, and while one or two of them will stand outside the circle distracting people, the woman inside will be raped repeatedly. This is what happened in Cologne and has sparked huge protests, but unsurprisingly, the BBC or Guardian aren't reporting on it at all. I don't believe it's the moderate Western Muslim. These are the hardcore fundamentalists, many of whom have travelled from abroad. It's a worrying trend though and it's not something we want near our streets. not just muslims though is it? what about the gypsy "tradition" of grabbing which happens right here on our streets already? aren't they all god fearing christians? (not belittling your comment which is very valid, merely trying to restore some balance before the usual GDB witch hunt of all things Muslim begins) Oh, Don't worry Mick, I'm not a fan of Christianity either. In fact, my views on religion are pretty clear.... it's bollocks.
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Apr 12, 2016 17:25:39 GMT
You can not have 2 sets of laws in one place, there has to be common laws which all are bound to not chose which laws you want and know that the ones you don't want will be overlooked by the Police because you have set up no go areas and claim immunity from them on religious or cultural grounds. It is the failings of our police and our government which have allowed these areas of "Not Britain" to be set up and prosper over the last 50 years in this country. Can you tell me a no-go area in Britain? Also, are we talking about no-go areas for police or people of a certain race? I'm genuinely interested, as I've heard people go on about no-go areas before but not seen them myself. I've walked through and been for a pint in several shithole parts of London that, I would guess, have a large minority or even majority of non-white people, but I wouldn't call them "no-go".
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Post by mumf on Apr 12, 2016 17:30:48 GMT
You can not have 2 sets of laws in one place, there has to be common laws which all are bound to not chose which laws you want and know that the ones you don't want will be overlooked by the Police because you have set up no go areas and claim immunity from them on religious or cultural grounds. It is the failings of our police and our government which have allowed these areas of "Not Britain" to be set up and prosper over the last 50 years in this country. Can you tell me a no-go area in Britain? Also, are we talking about no-go areas for police or people of a certain race? I'm genuinely interested, as I've heard people go on about no-go areas before but not seen them myself. I've walked through and been for a pint in several shithole parts of London that, I would guess, have a large minority or even majority of non-white people, but I wouldn't call them "no-go". I wasn't sure where these ' no-go ' areas were either so I googled it .... www.express.co.uk/news/uk/625545/Donald-Trump-Muslims-speech-British-police-ISIS-radicalisation-London
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2016 17:56:08 GMT
You can not have 2 sets of laws in one place, there has to be common laws which all are bound to not chose which laws you want and know that the ones you don't want will be overlooked by the Police because you have set up no go areas and claim immunity from them on religious or cultural grounds. It is the failings of our police and our government which have allowed these areas of "Not Britain" to be set up and prosper over the last 50 years in this country. Can you tell me a no-go area in Britain? Also, are we talking about no-go areas for police or people of a certain race? I'm genuinely interested, as I've heard people go on about no-go areas before but not seen them myself. I've walked through and been for a pint in several shithole parts of London that, I would guess, have a large minority or even majority of non-white people, but I wouldn't call them "no-go". I go for a run through a couple of so-called "no go areas" in Manchester every other day/night. It's a load of bollocks spouted by people who've either never been to these places or who get shit scared at the site of their own shadow. Generally just people going about their daily lives who couldn't give a fuck about some overweight bloke in a Stoke top who appears to be wading through treacle.........
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Post by harryburrows on Apr 12, 2016 18:01:44 GMT
You can not have 2 sets of laws in one place, there has to be common laws which all are bound to not chose which laws you want and know that the ones you don't want will be overlooked by the Police because you have set up no go areas and claim immunity from them on religious or cultural grounds. It is the failings of our police and our government which have allowed these areas of "Not Britain" to be set up and prosper over the last 50 years in this country. Can you tell me a no-go area in Britain? Also, are we talking about no-go areas for police or people of a certain race? I'm genuinely interested, as I've heard people go on about no-go areas before but not seen them myself. I've walked through and been for a pint in several shithole parts of London that, I would guess, have a large minority or even majority of non-white people, but I wouldn't call them "no-go". I moved to London 45 years ago . There have always been no go areas , parts of the east end , Harlesden ,Brixton , camberwell , lewisham , Peckham, Kilburn in the 70s was an Irish republican ghetto , drink there at your peril unless you made a large donation into the collection box pushed into your face by an INLA fundraiser .
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2016 18:27:39 GMT
You can not have 2 sets of laws in one place, there has to be common laws which all are bound to not chose which laws you want and know that the ones you don't want will be overlooked by the Police because you have set up no go areas and claim immunity from them on religious or cultural grounds. It is the failings of our police and our government which have allowed these areas of "Not Britain" to be set up and prosper over the last 50 years in this country. Can you tell me a no-go area in Britain? Also, are we talking about no-go areas for police or people of a certain race? I'm genuinely interested, as I've heard people go on about no-go areas before but not seen them myself. I've walked through and been for a pint in several shithole parts of London that, I would guess, have a large minority or even majority of non-white people, but I wouldn't call them "no-go". I'm sorry I'm not prepared to tell you where I lived that was so bad, if it's not like that where you are then be happy. However I'm talking police no go areas in this City where they will not go for fear of causing problems with the local community.
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Post by partickpotter on Apr 12, 2016 20:48:06 GMT
You can not have 2 sets of laws in one place, there has to be common laws which all are bound to not chose which laws you want and know that the ones you don't want will be overlooked by the Police because you have set up no go areas and claim immunity from them on religious or cultural grounds. It is the failings of our police and our government which have allowed these areas of "Not Britain" to be set up and prosper over the last 50 years in this country. Can you tell me a no-go area in Britain? Also, are we talking about no-go areas for police or people of a certain race? I'm genuinely interested, as I've heard people go on about no-go areas before but not seen them myself. I've walked through and been for a pint in several shithole parts of London that, I would guess, have a large minority or even majority of non-white people, but I wouldn't call them "no-go". The Louden Tavern in Dennistoun for anyone wearing a green and white hooped T-shirt. Generally, but particularly this coming Sunday. Likewise, a Loyal Blue top would be well advised to steer clear of the Brazen Head in the Gorbals.
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Post by crapslinger on Apr 12, 2016 20:53:40 GMT
Can you tell me a no-go area in Britain? Also, are we talking about no-go areas for police or people of a certain race? I'm genuinely interested, as I've heard people go on about no-go areas before but not seen them myself. I've walked through and been for a pint in several shithole parts of London that, I would guess, have a large minority or even majority of non-white people, but I wouldn't call them "no-go". I'm sorry I'm not prepared to tell you where I lived that was so bad, if it's not like that where you are then be happy. However I'm talking police no go areas in this City where they will not go for fear of causing problems with the local community. Not Normacot is it ? just guessing but drove through there recently I would no go back again.
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Post by lordb on Apr 12, 2016 21:56:30 GMT
I remember moving to Shelton and being told by several people to watch out etc. Safest place in Stoke I have lived,noisy because of the students but otherwise no problems.
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Post by Skankmonkey on Apr 12, 2016 22:03:14 GMT
I remember moving to Shelton and being told by several people to watch out etc. Safest place in Stoke I have lived,noisy because of the students but otherwise no problems. This.
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Post by starkiller on Apr 12, 2016 22:20:53 GMT
Since when did opinions in a survey turn into British Law?
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Post by mumf on Apr 13, 2016 0:15:40 GMT
Since when did opinions in a survey turn into British Law? Just after a failed £9million campaign to prevent it . But I digress .....I just googled some images on Shelton and crime stats after reading some of the defensive comments about it on here ... I wasn't surprised or shocked with the findings either ... ...but let's just gloss over it and put it down to media manipulation .
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Post by manmarking on Apr 13, 2016 6:33:59 GMT
Since when did opinions in a survey turn into British Law? Just after a failed £9million campaign to prevent it . But I digress .....I just googled some images on Shelton and crime stats after reading some of the defensive comments about it on here ... I wasn't surprised or shocked with the findings either ... ...but let's just gloss over it and put it down to media manipulation . Any chance you could point the rest of us in the direction of these stats and images or are we taking your word for it mate? Also - genuine point here - from what you post on here, you're actually in favour of much of sharia doctrine. Eg you dislike homosexuality, you're in favour of harsh punishments for serious crimes etc etc
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Post by mumf on Apr 13, 2016 6:35:17 GMT
No ....it was All a figment of my imagination .
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