lewando
Youth Player
I was very,very drunk
Posts: 325
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Post by lewando on May 24, 2016 21:16:24 GMT
John Stones for England, I'd rather play Joss Stone.
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Post by Bojan Mackey on May 24, 2016 21:20:54 GMT
John Stones for England, I'd rather play Joss Stone. She can hold my trophy whenever she likes.
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Post by Staffsoatcake on May 25, 2016 8:30:10 GMT
It could benefit teams like Stoke, if Stones does move to a top team in the Prem,it could make it easier to take points off them.
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2016 8:40:37 GMT
When I was in a queue going through passport control at Changi I was right behind two Everton fans who started to chat about the Asia trophy games and stated that Ryan was an animal and should never play for anyone never mind England and stated Stones was the best CB since Bobby Moore ! As you can imagine I put them right and they started to get a bit miffed as did I over their character assassination of our captain, in the end I just laughed at their insistence that Stones is the future captain of England and that Ryan will never play for England I walked off laughing to another lane which was opened up. However it looks that Roy is of the same opinion so god help us.
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Post by sheikhmomo on May 25, 2016 9:04:23 GMT
When I was in a queue going through passport control at Changi I was right behind two Everton fans who started to chat about the Asia trophy games and stated that Ryan was an animal and should never play for anyone never mind England and stated Stones was the best CB since Bobby Moore ! As you can imagine I put them right and they started to get a bit miffed as did I over their character assassination of our captain, in the end I just laughed at their insistence that Stones is the future captain of England and that Ryan will never play for England I walked off laughing to another lane which was opened up. However it looks that Roy is of the same opinion so god help us. I had a similar discussion with some Everton fans in a pub in Longton before our game against them the year after Sideshow Nob twatted Shawcross. They were of a similar opinion about Shawcross being ‘an animal’. That’s why I never get this ‘proper club’ ‘proper fans’ bullshit that’s trotted out every time we play Everton. I find them invariably to be some of the biggest deluded nuggets around. Oh and John Stones is wank.
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Post by Pugsley on May 25, 2016 9:17:44 GMT
All I'll say is that a succession of PL managers at club and International level have picked this player. Does this argument ring any bells?
Welcome to the Oatcake.
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Post by sheikhmomo on May 25, 2016 9:32:56 GMT
All I'll say is that a succession of PL managers at club and International level have picked this player. Does this argument ring any bells? Welcome to the Oatcake. Let’s look at these managers shall we? Less than half a season under Moyes Touted as the next Bobby Moore and eventually dropped like a Stone (every pun intended) by the worst defensive coach in Premier League history in Martinez And bumbling old Woy who’s always looking to get his bus pass out to jump on the next passing bandwagon He’s 21, he’s got time to improve but after the season he’s had the fact he’s one of only three centre halves in the England squad is an absolute fucking scandal and will undoubtedly bite us square on the bollocks over the next couple of months. I still think if he does go on to have the career people are telling us he will it will be in midfield or at right back because he's no more a centre half than fucking Bojan.
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Post by Pugsley on May 25, 2016 9:43:20 GMT
All I'll say is that a succession of PL managers at club and International level have picked this player. Does this argument ring any bells? Welcome to the Oatcake. Let’s look at these managers shall we? Less than half a season under Moyes Touted as the next Bobby Moore and eventually dropped like a Stone (every pun intended) by the worst defensive coach in Premier League history in Martinez And bumbling old Woy who’s always looking to get his bus pass out to jump on the next passing bandwagon He’s 21, he’s got time to improve but after the season he’s had the fact he’s one of only three centre halves in the England squad is an absolute fucking scandal and will undoubtedly bite us square on the bollocks over the next couple of months. I still think if he does go on to have the career people are telling us he will it will be in midfield or at right back because he's no more a centre half than fucking Bojan. Touched a nerve there I think. Moyes, respected defensive coach, FA Cup winner Martinez, multi National team, Europa League Cup finalist, Inter Milan coach.... Now Guardiola wants him... what the fuck does he know? Just saying - I like a consistent argument.
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Post by sheikhmomo on May 25, 2016 9:55:32 GMT
Let’s look at these managers shall we? Less than half a season under Moyes Touted as the next Bobby Moore and eventually dropped like a Stone (every pun intended) by the worst defensive coach in Premier League history in Martinez And bumbling old Woy who’s always looking to get his bus pass out to jump on the next passing bandwagon He’s 21, he’s got time to improve but after the season he’s had the fact he’s one of only three centre halves in the England squad is an absolute fucking scandal and will undoubtedly bite us square on the bollocks over the next couple of months. I still think if he does go on to have the career people are telling us he will it will be in midfield or at right back because he's no more a centre half than fucking Bojan. Touched a nerve there I think. Moyes, respected defensive coach, FA Cup winner Martinez, multi National team, Europa League Cup finalist, Inter Milan coach.... Now Guardiola wants him... what the fuck does he know? Just saying - I like a consistent argument. Touched no sort of nerve. He's simply not a centre half, in any sort of conventional sense. If these top managers buy him, them they will have to adapt their whole defense to accommodate his inability to defend and coach out of him his desire to play the ball out from his own goal line. As for your consistent argument line I genuinely have no idea what you're going on about but presume its about a cap wearing gentleman from the Black Country?
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2016 9:55:41 GMT
All I'll say is that a succession of PL managers at club and International level have picked this player. Does this argument ring any bells? Welcome to the Oatcake. It's down to the media and Roy's stubbornness to never admit he fucked things up or picks the "popular" choice. I except Ryan has been poor and in no way am I saying he should be in the team on current form and fitness but Stones really is not that good. If Ryan is fit he is the better defender without doubt but he is still vilified in the media and with all comers at the Arse and Roy has played right into their hands the spineless cnut.
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Post by foster on May 25, 2016 9:58:38 GMT
The impression I have is that he seems to get rave reviews but makes blunders consistently because he's still young and inexperienced (shit excuses).
Saying that, if any other defender made errors with that level of frequency then they'd be slaughtered. As a media darling he seems to get away with it though.
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Post by Pugsley on May 25, 2016 9:59:47 GMT
Touched a nerve there I think. Moyes, respected defensive coach, FA Cup winner Martinez, multi National team, Europa League Cup finalist, Inter Milan coach.... Now Guardiola wants him... what the fuck does he know? Just saying - I like a consistent argument. Touched no sort of nerve. He's simply not a centre half, in any sort of conventional sense. If these top managers buy him, them they will have to adapt their whole defense to accommodate his inability to defend and coach out of him his desire to play the ball out from his own goal line. As for your consistent argument line I genuinely have no idea what you're going on about but presume its about a cap wearing gentleman from the Black Country? No mate, it's the same argument about Jon Walters that certain posters prattle on about. Stones has a lot to learn but he'll be England Captain one day.
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2016 10:03:07 GMT
Touched no sort of nerve. He's simply not a centre half, in any sort of conventional sense. If these top managers buy him, them they will have to adapt their whole defense to accommodate his inability to defend and coach out of him his desire to play the ball out from his own goal line. As for your consistent argument line I genuinely have no idea what you're going on about but presume its about a cap wearing gentleman from the Black Country? No mate, it's the same argument about Jon Walters that certain posters prattle on about. Stones has a lot to learn but he'll be England Captain one day. That only proves how wank England are
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2016 10:04:22 GMT
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Post by stayingupfor GermanStokie on May 25, 2016 10:08:08 GMT
Touched no sort of nerve. He's simply not a centre half, in any sort of conventional sense. If these top managers buy him, them they will have to adapt their whole defense to accommodate his inability to defend and coach out of him his desire to play the ball out from his own goal line. As for your consistent argument line I genuinely have no idea what you're going on about but presume its about a cap wearing gentleman from the Black Country? No mate, it's the same argument about Jon Walters that certain posters prattle on about. Stones has a lot to learn but he'll be England Captain one day. That may be the case eventually, but why is he getting so many chances? He keeps making mistake after mistake yet is till given a chance? From a Stoke perspective, Shawcross made a simple mistake in his first match against Sweden yet is now pilloried by Roy ever since? To be fair, I didn't think Stones was THAT bad bad in the last match but he is not a CB. Holger Badstuber is a far better ball playing defender (but is injury prone unfortunately) and Hummels is also a good ball playing defender 'like' Stones but far superior and tenacious in the tackle.... Something Stones needs to be before being considered "world class". Other defenders who perform well (People keep mentioning Scott Dann?) might as well give up hopes of breaking into the team as seemingly form counts for nothing....
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Post by sheikhmomo on May 25, 2016 10:14:40 GMT
Touched no sort of nerve. He's simply not a centre half, in any sort of conventional sense. If these top managers buy him, them they will have to adapt their whole defense to accommodate his inability to defend and coach out of him his desire to play the ball out from his own goal line. As for your consistent argument line I genuinely have no idea what you're going on about but presume its about a cap wearing gentleman from the Black Country? No mate, it's the same argument about Jon Walters that certain posters prattle on about. Stones has a lot to learn but he'll be England Captain one day. He shouldn't be remotely close to the England set up at the moment though mate He couldn't get into one of the worst defences in the league at certain stages last year. It may sound daft but I honestly think if he ends up at a top club, he'll end up playing right back eventually.
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Post by stoneroses on May 25, 2016 10:20:31 GMT
No mate, it's the same argument about Jon Walters that certain posters prattle on about. Stones has a lot to learn but he'll be England Captain one day. That may be the case eventually, but why is he getting so many chances? He keeps making mistake after mistake yet is till given a chance? From a Stoke perspective, Shawcross made a simple mistake in his first match against Sweden yet is now pilloried by Roy ever since? To be fair, I didn't think Stones was THAT bad bad in the last match but he is not a CB. Holger Badstuber is a far better ball playing defender (but is injury prone unfortunately) and Hummels is also a good ball playing defender 'like' Stones but far superior and tenacious in the tackle.... Something Stones needs to be before being considered "world class". Other defenders who perform well (People keep mentioning Scott Dann?) might as well give up hopes of breaking into the team as seemingly form counts for nothing.... Perceptions of players are great when you look at what they have done and don't look at what they could do, I feel it's where people go wrong. Stones this summer nearly moved to Chelsea and for me spent all season looking like he did not want to be at Everton. He is an interesting case though, as just on how you perceive this one player to me indicates how you interpret football and what you want to take out of watching football. Like mentioned before though, all the top clubs in the world are after him and he will not go for peanuts either, 40 mil was rejected last summer but I think that would be his selling price this, no matter what your thoughts are football people at the highest level have a great opinion of him.
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Post by metalhead on May 25, 2016 10:39:01 GMT
I watched Stones against Turkey. Jesus christ, the guy is way off being good enough for International, but I suppose if we teach him early that defeat is inevitable, he'll be better as he improves.... maybe? Err yeah.
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Post by fentonstokie1 on May 25, 2016 12:48:07 GMT
The Euros are just around the corner, that should give us an indication of how good the lad is at defending.
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2016 12:50:49 GMT
That may be the case eventually, but why is he getting so many chances? He keeps making mistake after mistake yet is till given a chance? From a Stoke perspective, Shawcross made a simple mistake in his first match against Sweden yet is now pilloried by Roy ever since? To be fair, I didn't think Stones was THAT bad bad in the last match but he is not a CB. Holger Badstuber is a far better ball playing defender (but is injury prone unfortunately) and Hummels is also a good ball playing defender 'like' Stones but far superior and tenacious in the tackle.... Something Stones needs to be before being considered "world class". Other defenders who perform well (People keep mentioning Scott Dann?) might as well give up hopes of breaking into the team as seemingly form counts for nothing.... Perceptions of players are great when you look at what they have done and don't look at what they could do, I feel it's where people go wrong. Stones this summer nearly moved to Chelsea and for me spent all season looking like he did not want to be at Everton. He is an interesting case though, as just on how you perceive this one player to me indicates how you interpret football and what you want to take out of watching football. Like mentioned before though, all the top clubs in the world are after him and he will not go for peanuts either, 40 mil was rejected last summer but I think that would be his selling price this, no matter what your thoughts are football people at the highest level have a great opinion of him. A case of "The emperors new clothes"
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2016 5:47:00 GMT
Is he even that good on the ball? That's supposed to be his main selling point and he loses it so often.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2016 5:59:41 GMT
Perceptions of players are great when you look at what they have done and don't look at what they could do, I feel it's where people go wrong. Stones this summer nearly moved to Chelsea and for me spent all season looking like he did not want to be at Everton. He is an interesting case though, as just on how you perceive this one player to me indicates how you interpret football and what you want to take out of watching football. Like mentioned before though, all the top clubs in the world are after him and he will not go for peanuts either, 40 mil was rejected last summer but I think that would be his selling price this, no matter what your thoughts are football people at the highest level have a great opinion of him. A case of "The emperors new clothes" It does seem to afllict a lot of high profile managers/ex manager pundits on a regular basis with English players. Perhaps they are just as taken in by hype as normal people. Carroll, Walcott and Wilshere are just 3 off the top of my head who've been touted for greatness recently and come nowhere near what was predicted for them. The thing is everyone famous who gets to speak publically on these matters seems so trapped in a corner after so much gushing they then struggle to say anything bad. Such as maybe he shouldn't be drinking in Dubai / smoking at nightclubs and focusing on his rehabilitation from injury instead? Or on Walcotts case demanding to play up front when he is much better on the wing. Now with Stones it is being held up as anti football if you want him to stop dribbling past people in the penalty area.
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Post by sheikhmomo on May 26, 2016 8:39:55 GMT
A case of "The emperors new clothes" Now with Stones it is being held up as anti football if you want him to stop dribbling past people in the penalty area. This pisses me off more than anything and if anything pundits increasingly absurd defence of him, is doing him absolutely no favours. You regularly hear the phrase that you have to ‘accept’ the giving the ball away in insanely dangerous areas as some sort of payoff for other sides of his game which in reality come nowhere near close to compensating for his errors. It’s utter dogshit.
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Post by ukcstokie on May 26, 2016 9:16:33 GMT
Like a lot of people, once every two years I actually give a shit about England. The build up to England tournament games are as close as the build up to a Stoke game for me.
The idea, that we are at the whim of a silly manager, an injury, red card, couple of yellows away from having to play a competitive important game with Stones at the heart of our defence.
Well fuck me.
It's getting important now. It's not a school for the media's little project to learn in.
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Post by adamsson on May 26, 2016 9:41:05 GMT
All I'll say is that a succession of PL managers at club and International level have picked this player. Does this argument ring any bells? Welcome to the Oatcake. I don't watch him very often but every time I have seen him play he has been spectacularly bad, he may have wonderful ball control but he just doesn't defend. Go to Squawka of defenders who have played more than 25 games he is 1st on defensive errors leading to a goal, 42nd on interceptions, 31st on clearances, 35th on tackles, 31st on aerial duels won
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Post by chayzenbacon on May 26, 2016 11:47:55 GMT
Is he even that good on the ball? That's supposed to be his main selling point and he loses it so often. Heresy. And very close to the truth.
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Post by stayingupfor GermanStokie on May 26, 2016 12:01:13 GMT
That may be the case eventually, but why is he getting so many chances? He keeps making mistake after mistake yet is till given a chance? From a Stoke perspective, Shawcross made a simple mistake in his first match against Sweden yet is now pilloried by Roy ever since? To be fair, I didn't think Stones was THAT bad bad in the last match but he is not a CB. Holger Badstuber is a far better ball playing defender (but is injury prone unfortunately) and Hummels is also a good ball playing defender 'like' Stones but far superior and tenacious in the tackle.... Something Stones needs to be before being considered "world class". Other defenders who perform well (People keep mentioning Scott Dann?) might as well give up hopes of breaking into the team as seemingly form counts for nothing.... Perceptions of players are great when you look at what they have done and don't look at what they could do, I feel it's where people go wrong. Stones this summer nearly moved to Chelsea and for me spent all season looking like he did not want to be at Everton. He is an interesting case though, as just on how you perceive this one player to me indicates how you interpret football and what you want to take out of watching football. Like mentioned before though, all the top clubs in the world are after him and he will not go for peanuts either, 40 mil was rejected last summer but I think that would be his selling price this, no matter what your thoughts are football people at the highest level have a great opinion of him. But i have been very lucky to see the likes of Beckenbauer at the tail end of his career and watched how he like to have his defensive players set up and coached. I enjoy the ability of a defender to be able to bring the ball out and link in with the team (much like hummels and Badstuber... and of course Der Kaiser) but they still know how to defend without the ball! That is my exact point. as i feel that whilst Stones may be comfortable on the ball, he is very uncomfortable without it. inexperience? perhaps... but when you place him against others internationally at a similar age (Badstuber was far far better at the same age - it's just his injuries that now cause concern) then you can see he is not the 'great hope' that people are espousing - yet.
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Post by ukcstokie on May 26, 2016 12:27:35 GMT
Whatever happened to Calum Chambers - wasn't he the last defender - who couldn't defend - who Roy and the pundits told us would turn into one of the best defenders in the world?
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Post by thehoof on May 26, 2016 13:05:46 GMT
Pugsley, My brother is an Everton fan, and up until moving to Egypt was a regular at Goodison. He had to watch Everton's final games of the season via Al Jazeera or whatever, but he has seen more of Stones than you, Guardiola,or Mr.Hodgson- what is more he spends his hard earned cash to do so. His opinion is that Stones is not a Center Half, but should be in the Dier role, where he would live up to his potential. For every manager you have named, I could throw names at you that would indicate that they can be clueless when it comes to team selection. Normally I agree with most of your posts, but with this one, I think that over time you will be proved (along with Hodgson, Martinez and if he really is looking to recruit Stones,Guardiola)totally wrong. Good players make mistakes, but they don't make the same one consistently- if he is an international of any standing, he should have learned by now, yet he hasn't.
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Post by Pugsley on May 26, 2016 13:10:58 GMT
Pugsley, My brother is an Everton fan, and up until moving to Egypt was a regular at Goodison. He had to watch Everton's final games of the season via Al Jazeera or whatever, but he has seen more of Stones than you, Guardiola,or Mr.Hodgson- what is more he spends his hard earned cash to do so. His opinion is that Stones is not a Center Half, but should be in the Dier role, where he would live up to his potential. For every manager you have named, I could throw names at you that would indicate that they can be clueless when it comes to team selection. Normally I agree with most of your posts, but with this one, I think that over time you will be proved (along with Hodgson, Martinez and if he really is looking to recruit Stones,Guardiola)totally wrong. Good players make mistakes, but they don't make the same one consistently- if he is an international of any standing, he should have learned by now, yet he hasn't. Time will tell. No doubt he is a work in progress and is making silly errors but top clubs and managers want him - they must believe there is a player there. Indeed, he might be a defensive midfielder. To be honest I don't really care, I just find it a bit sad that we have football fans crucifying this young lad. I would doubt very much that your mate knows as much about football and footballers than Guardiola.
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