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Post by lordb on May 6, 2015 7:39:55 GMT
Oh how I love winding arsenal fans up by calling them the original MK Dons.They don't like it at all. Sadly Stoke FC were complicit in Arsenals rise (they wern't promoted,they we're voted in) to the 1st Division.  |
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Post by Not_Nick_H on May 6, 2015 12:27:50 GMT
Aside from their "artificial" creation, I see them as potentially the Wigan Athletic of the South. I mean, in the same way that Wigan's true supporter base was limted by population and the draw of bigger clubs near-by (plus a core of Rugby League tradition), just how big a supporter base can a town that size (with a transient population that probably supports a multitude of other teams) really have?
If (and I hope not) they make it to the Prem, I can honestly see the stands filling with "casual" fans of other clubs that otherwise can't get tickets to their "proper" club's games - a-la Wigan and fans of Man U, City and Liverpool , etc. How long they could sustain that I don't know. Look at Wigan now - trading places ironically.
The whole story just doesn't sit well with me. It's akin to the Chairman of Warrington Town (similar area in some ways to MK), deciding to abandon the traditional route to the Football League that they're on now, and buying Wigan Athletic as an entity before moving the club lock, stock and barrel to the DW Stadium (or whatever it is now) and re-naming them "Wigan Wires". It smacks of Pete Winkelman wanting the easy route and spying an opportunity to move in.
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Post by 2004 on May 6, 2015 12:52:25 GMT
Joke of a club. Shoudn't even exist.
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Post by thevoid on May 6, 2015 13:55:44 GMT
I imagine this clown is going to be an increasing menace as well.  I thought he was good in Mask with Cher. |
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Post by thestatusquo on May 6, 2015 14:22:30 GMT
He looks like Gerry Frances' younger brother.
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Post by chiefdelilah on May 6, 2015 14:52:08 GMT
Having kept an eye on their progress over the last few years, I think it's ironic and quite interesting that as time has passed Winkleman has actually expressed some regrets with regards to what went on. Maybe he has started to realise the importance of a football club not as a plaything for some cunt with more money than sense, but as an integral centrepiece and focal-point for the vast array of communities across our land. I think that as MKFC becomes more and more important to the community of Milton Keynes it is dawning on him just what a wicked thing he was a massive part of at the turn of the millennium. I think what has been achieved through the resolve and determination of the people down at the real Wimbledon has also shamed him somewhat. Wimbledon are in the process of returning to Plough Lane I believe, which would be a terrific scenario indeed. The last piece to this ugly chapter in English football history will be for MK Dons to officially express repentance for what they did, and to drop the Dons from their name. Only then will I (reluctantly) accept them as an equal within the pyramid. He wanted to bring a football club to MKD. He was trying to do something positive for his community. He most certainly shouldn't have been allowed to steal someone else's but I think it is too simplistic to only or mainly blame him for what happened. The previous owners of Wimbledon bear a heavy responsibility, as do the 3-person FA appeals committee which allowed it ( or at least 2 of them - it was a 2-1 vote) against the wishes of the Football League, and the inadequacies of regulations at that time. I completely agree with you about AFC Wimbledon's magnificent achievements. After the MKD move, we had a boycott of some fans attending MKD ( how many Stoke fans on here went to our Cup game there ? I didn't ). MKD were keen to get accepted by the 'football family'. Wimbledon fans were keen to get their history back. I started a process of mediation to try to get the situation resolved, which after nearly 18 months of sensitive negotiation it was, with an agreement signed by MKD FC and their fans, Wimbledon fans and the FSF. The boycott was lifted, MKD fans were accepted into the FSF, and MKD agreed to return all the historical patrimony; the replica FA Cup; other historical souvenirs, copyrights etc to the London borough of Merton. I was given the replica cup by the Mayor of Milton Keynes in the centre circle at MKD and a convoy of vans with all the historical material set off down the motorway to Merton where I ceremoniously handed the replica Fa Cup over to the Mayor of Merton. That agreement doesn't contain an apology, but it does contain a recognition of the hurt caused by what happened, which is something. The dropping of the "Dons" part of the name was certainly one thing which the Wimbledon negotiators wanted to happen but which the MKD Club felt unable to give, largely because their own supporters had by then become attached to the name. I think Pete Winkleman has always realised the importance of a a football club to the community, which was exactly why he wanted one. One of the paradoxes of this whole business is that in many respects the MKD Club are almost a model club of how to engage with the community. During the negotiations, we used to joke with him that in many ways he was a model chairman ( e.g he wouldn't agree to anything without consulting his fans). He does get it in a way which many club chairmen don't. I agree with you that it was an ugly chapter, but we all had to move on. Hopefully it could never happen again. I don't think it could. The problem with 'wanting to bring a football club to the community' Malcolm is the enormous shortcut they took to get there. Start at the bottom of the pyramid or else don't start at all. And certainly don't piggyback on the dying husk of another club to do it. |
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on May 6, 2015 14:57:31 GMT
Malcolm The problem is that many Milton Keynes fans still claim the history of Wimbledon, regardless of what you managed to negotiate with them. A friend of mine is a fan and he clings to the belief that they won the FA Cup in 1988 and Dean Lewington joined them at the age of 13. It's a subject we avoid like religion and politics because it genuinely makes me angry. While they have fans who cling to the lie that they didn't steal a League place but are a continuation of Wimbeldon, they don't deserve the respect of 'the football family' and I for one would love to see them disappear completely or at least start where they should have started. The shame is they are a well run club otherwise justice could be served. From what I know, I wouldn't say "many", greyman, I'd say "a few". The official MKD Supporters Club signed the agreement, thus surrendering the history which your friend still claims, and as a result of it, the replica FA Cup which is kept by all winners, now resides in south London, not MKD, along with all the rest of the pre-MKD history. Ask your friend where he thinks that replica cup now is ! The Wimbledon fans organisations signed it too, thus accepting the reality that MKD are not going to disappear or start at the bottom of the pyramid. That's all you can do, apart from ensuring that something like that never happens again. It most definitely shouldn't have happened but it did. Like all "peace accords", each "side" gave a lot to gain things which were very important to them: in MKD's case, acceptance; in AFCW's case, getting back their history. |
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on May 6, 2015 15:00:07 GMT
He wanted to bring a football club to MKD. He was trying to do something positive for his community. He most certainly shouldn't have been allowed to steal someone else's but I think it is too simplistic to only or mainly blame him for what happened. The previous owners of Wimbledon bear a heavy responsibility, as do the 3-person FA appeals committee which allowed it ( or at least 2 of them - it was a 2-1 vote) against the wishes of the Football League, and the inadequacies of regulations at that time. I completely agree with you about AFC Wimbledon's magnificent achievements. After the MKD move, we had a boycott of some fans attending MKD ( how many Stoke fans on here went to our Cup game there ? I didn't ). MKD were keen to get accepted by the 'football family'. Wimbledon fans were keen to get their history back. I started a process of mediation to try to get the situation resolved, which after nearly 18 months of sensitive negotiation it was, with an agreement signed by MKD FC and their fans, Wimbledon fans and the FSF. The boycott was lifted, MKD fans were accepted into the FSF, and MKD agreed to return all the historical patrimony; the replica FA Cup; other historical souvenirs, copyrights etc to the London borough of Merton. I was given the replica cup by the Mayor of Milton Keynes in the centre circle at MKD and a convoy of vans with all the historical material set off down the motorway to Merton where I ceremoniously handed the replica Fa Cup over to the Mayor of Merton. That agreement doesn't contain an apology, but it does contain a recognition of the hurt caused by what happened, which is something. The dropping of the "Dons" part of the name was certainly one thing which the Wimbledon negotiators wanted to happen but which the MKD Club felt unable to give, largely because their own supporters had by then become attached to the name. I think Pete Winkleman has always realised the importance of a a football club to the community, which was exactly why he wanted one. One of the paradoxes of this whole business is that in many respects the MKD Club are almost a model club of how to engage with the community. During the negotiations, we used to joke with him that in many ways he was a model chairman ( e.g he wouldn't agree to anything without consulting his fans). He does get it in a way which many club chairmen don't. I agree with you that it was an ugly chapter, but we all had to move on. Hopefully it could never happen again. I don't think it could. The problem with 'wanting to bring a football club to the community' Malcolm is the enormous shortcut they took to get there. Start at the bottom of the pyramid or else don't start at all. And certainly don't piggyback on the dying husk of another club to do it. I completely agree, cd, but we had to deal with the world as it is, not as it should have been or we wanted it to be. |
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on May 6, 2015 15:42:30 GMT
Malcolm The problem is that many Milton Keynes fans still claim the history of Wimbledon, regardless of what you managed to negotiate with them. A friend of mine is a fan and he clings to the belief that they won the FA Cup in 1988 and Dean Lewington joined them at the age of 13. It's a subject we avoid like religion and politics because it genuinely makes me angry. While they have fans who cling to the lie that they didn't steal a League place but are a continuation of Wimbeldon, they don't deserve the respect of 'the football family' and I for one would love to see them disappear completely or at least start where they should have started. The shame is they are a well run club otherwise justice could be served. From what I know, I wouldn't say "many", greyman, I'd say "a few". The official MKD Supporters Club signed the agreement, thus surrendering the history which your friend still claims, and as a result of it, the replica FA Cup which is kept by all winners, now resides in south London, not MKD, along with all the rest of the pre-MKD history. Ask your friend where he thinks that replica cup now is ! The Wimbledon fans organisations signed it too, thus accepting the reality that MKD are not going to disappear or start at the bottom of the pyramid. That's all you can do, apart from ensuring that something like that never happens again. It most definitely shouldn't have happened but it did. Like all "peace accords", each "side" gave a lot to gain things which were very important to them: in MKD's case, acceptance; in AFCW's case, getting back their history. The official MKD Supporters club signed it? And what percentage of the fanbase is that?  Fucking politicians, in the loosest sense, taking decisions for the majority, who are not members? So basically they stole a clubs place in the league then gave that said club their history back? How the fuck does that work? Wasn't the plan to move a club from one area to another, saving Wimbledon? At least one thing they couldn't negotiate or take is another clubs soul and that's something they will never have! MKD's got acceptance? From who? Any decent football fan should never accept them. |
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MK Dons
May 6, 2015 16:16:47 GMT
via mobile
2004 likes this
Post by starkiller on May 6, 2015 16:16:47 GMT
If Lego did places, teams and names MK Dons would be the result.
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Post by chiefdelilah on May 6, 2015 16:17:28 GMT
The problem with 'wanting to bring a football club to the community' Malcolm is the enormous shortcut they took to get there. Start at the bottom of the pyramid or else don't start at all. And certainly don't piggyback on the dying husk of another club to do it. I completely agree, cd, but we had to deal with the world as it is, not as it should have been or we wanted it to be. It wasn't a criticism of you Malcolm, more a suggestion that football fans should not move on nor forget that this was allowed to happen and there's really no mitigation or 'aw shucks' moment for this shower. They shouldn't exist. |
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Post by onionman on May 6, 2015 16:20:32 GMT
Anyone know if there are any former Wimbledon supporters who now support Milton Keynes?
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Post by greyman on May 6, 2015 16:54:04 GMT
Malcolm The problem is that many Milton Keynes fans still claim the history of Wimbledon, regardless of what you managed to negotiate with them. A friend of mine is a fan and he clings to the belief that they won the FA Cup in 1988 and Dean Lewington joined them at the age of 13. It's a subject we avoid like religion and politics because it genuinely makes me angry. While they have fans who cling to the lie that they didn't steal a League place but are a continuation of Wimbeldon, they don't deserve the respect of 'the football family' and I for one would love to see them disappear completely or at least start where they should have started. The shame is they are a well run club otherwise justice could be served. From what I know, I wouldn't say "many", greyman, I'd say "a few". The official MKD Supporters Club signed the agreement, thus surrendering the history which your friend still claims, and as a result of it, the replica FA Cup which is kept by all winners, now resides in south London, not MKD, along with all the rest of the pre-MKD history. Ask your friend where he thinks that replica cup now is ! The Wimbledon fans organisations signed it too, thus accepting the reality that MKD are not going to disappear or start at the bottom of the pyramid. That's all you can do, apart from ensuring that something like that never happens again. It most definitely shouldn't have happened but it did. Like all "peace accords", each "side" gave a lot to gain things which were very important to them: in MKD's case, acceptance; in AFCW's case, getting back their history. I think you'd be surprised. I think the FSF is a fantastic organisation but you should have had nothing to do with Milton Keynes. This is a popular piece of merchandise at this abomination of a club  |
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2015 17:53:34 GMT
From what I know, I wouldn't say "many", greyman, I'd say "a few". The official MKD Supporters Club signed the agreement, thus surrendering the history which your friend still claims, and as a result of it, the replica FA Cup which is kept by all winners, now resides in south London, not MKD, along with all the rest of the pre-MKD history. Ask your friend where he thinks that replica cup now is ! The Wimbledon fans organisations signed it too, thus accepting the reality that MKD are not going to disappear or start at the bottom of the pyramid. That's all you can do, apart from ensuring that something like that never happens again. It most definitely shouldn't have happened but it did. Like all "peace accords", each "side" gave a lot to gain things which were very important to them: in MKD's case, acceptance; in AFCW's case, getting back their history. I think you'd be surprised. I think the FSF is a fantastic organisation but you should have had nothing to do with Milton Keynes. This is a popular piece of merchandise at this abomination of a club That is absolute filth. |
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2015 17:57:13 GMT
Im still gutted it wasnt Preston North end - a proper famous old football club -
I put Mk Dons in the same category as Wigan pathetic
no history - no pedigree - little or no class
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Post by onionman on May 6, 2015 18:20:41 GMT
From what I know, I wouldn't say "many", greyman, I'd say "a few". The official MKD Supporters Club signed the agreement, thus surrendering the history which your friend still claims, and as a result of it, the replica FA Cup which is kept by all winners, now resides in south London, not MKD, along with all the rest of the pre-MKD history. Ask your friend where he thinks that replica cup now is ! The Wimbledon fans organisations signed it too, thus accepting the reality that MKD are not going to disappear or start at the bottom of the pyramid. That's all you can do, apart from ensuring that something like that never happens again. It most definitely shouldn't have happened but it did. Like all "peace accords", each "side" gave a lot to gain things which were very important to them: in MKD's case, acceptance; in AFCW's case, getting back their history. I think you'd be surprised. I think the FSF is a fantastic organisation but you should have had nothing to do with Milton Keynes. This is a popular piece of merchandise at this abomination of a club I don't get why the MK Dons fans would actually want to do that. While we don't agree with the principle of nicking another club's place in the football pyramid, at least it's easy to understand they did it because they wanted a football club in the town, and didn't want to wait to climb the ladder in the usual (decent) way. It makes sense in its own sad way. But I just can't understand why they would want to pretend that the Crazy Gang, Dave Bassett, the 1988 Cup Final victory, the famous top flight victories at Plough Lane, the climb through the divisions - all those things that the world associates with Wimbledon - were actually anything to do with Milton Keynes. It's not like they grew up listening to their dads' tales about standing on the terraces cheering on Dennis Wise and Warren Barton is it? It just makes no sense at all. So what do they actually gain from making that claim to someone else's history? Has your mate shed any light on that? |
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Post by takeshikovacs on May 6, 2015 19:11:38 GMT
I was one of the 17,000 cheering on my 'adopted' (by residence) 2nd team, so you can shove your collective attitudes where the Sun don't shine.
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MK Dons
May 6, 2015 19:53:51 GMT
via mobile
Post by Malcolm Clarke on May 6, 2015 19:53:51 GMT
Anyone know if there are any former Wimbledon supporters who now support Milton Keynes? I think there are a few and presumably they are the people who would buy the scarf shown in these pictures but I think they are only a very small proportion of the current fan base. |
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Post by dutchpeter72 on May 6, 2015 19:59:43 GMT
I was one of the 17,000 cheering on my 'adopted' (by residence) 2nd team, so you can shove your collective attitudes where the Sun don't shine. A Stoke City supporter with a second team. How times have changed  |
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MK Dons
May 6, 2015 20:06:57 GMT
via mobile
Post by Malcolm Clarke on May 6, 2015 20:06:57 GMT
From what I know, I wouldn't say "many", greyman, I'd say "a few". The official MKD Supporters Club signed the agreement, thus surrendering the history which your friend still claims, and as a result of it, the replica FA Cup which is kept by all winners, now resides in south London, not MKD, along with all the rest of the pre-MKD history. Ask your friend where he thinks that replica cup now is ! The Wimbledon fans organisations signed it too, thus accepting the reality that MKD are not going to disappear or start at the bottom of the pyramid. That's all you can do, apart from ensuring that something like that never happens again. It most definitely shouldn't have happened but it did. Like all "peace accords", each "side" gave a lot to gain things which were very important to them: in MKD's case, acceptance; in AFCW's case, getting back their history. [/ quote]I think you'd be surprised. I think the FSF is a fantastic organisation but you should have had nothing to do with Milton Keynes. This is a popular piece of merchandise at this abomination of a club [img src="http:// news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/ 76870000/jpg/_76870676_scarfgetty.jpg" alt=" "] We would obviously not have got involved ( and I would have saved many many hours of my time) if the AFC Wimbledon fans had not been willing to take part in the process, and our democratically elected National Council had not been happy with it. The reception I had when I handed over the replica FA cup to the Mayor of Merton along with other trophies and all the Wimbledon copyrights and naming rights showed that there were plenty in south London who were pleased we did get involved. |
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Post by greyman on May 7, 2015 0:50:58 GMT
I understand that Malcolm and I know you are a man of integrity and the FSF is damned whatever it does in this case because of the decisions of other people. Nevertheless a byproduct of what the FSF did is a tacit acceptance that this club has a place in the League. It doesn't. |
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Post by greyman on May 7, 2015 0:53:30 GMT
I think you'd be surprised. I think the FSF is a fantastic organisation but you should have had nothing to do with Milton Keynes. This is a popular piece of merchandise at this abomination of a club I don't get why the MK Dons fans would actually want to do that. While we don't agree with the principle of nicking another club's place in the football pyramid, at least it's easy to understand they did it because they wanted a football club in the town, and didn't want to wait to climb the ladder in the usual (decent) way. It makes sense in its own sad way. But I just can't understand why they would want to pretend that the Crazy Gang, Dave Bassett, the 1988 Cup Final victory, the famous top flight victories at Plough Lane, the climb through the divisions - all those things that the world associates with Wimbledon - were actually anything to do with Milton Keynes. It's not like they grew up listening to their dads' tales about standing on the terraces cheering on Dennis Wise and Warren Barton is it? It just makes no sense at all. So what do they actually gain from making that claim to someone else's history? Has your mate shed any light on that? Like I said, we no longer talk about it. If the game in England was run by people with any sort of awareness or recognition of what football is actually about, Milton Keynes would still be making their way up the League pyramid in the right way. |
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Post by stokemanusa on May 7, 2015 1:12:04 GMT
From what I know, I wouldn't say "many", greyman, I'd say "a few". The official MKD Supporters Club signed the agreement, thus surrendering the history which your friend still claims, and as a result of it, the replica FA Cup which is kept by all winners, now resides in south London, not MKD, along with all the rest of the pre-MKD history. Ask your friend where he thinks that replica cup now is ! The Wimbledon fans organisations signed it too, thus accepting the reality that MKD are not going to disappear or start at the bottom of the pyramid. That's all you can do, apart from ensuring that something like that never happens again. It most definitely shouldn't have happened but it did. Like all "peace accords", each "side" gave a lot to gain things which were very important to them: in MKD's case, acceptance; in AFCW's case, getting back their history. I think you'd be surprised. I think the FSF is a fantastic organisation but you should have had nothing to do with Milton Keynes. This is a popular piece of merchandise at this abomination of a club Ugh terrible that. Just robbery. |
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Post by metalhead on May 7, 2015 10:59:09 GMT
I cringed looking at that banner. I fucking hate MK Dons.
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Post by greyman on May 7, 2015 11:53:57 GMT
I was one of the 17,000 cheering on my 'adopted' (by residence) 2nd team, so you can shove your collective attitudes where the Sun don't shine. I'm sure those 17,000 fans would be delighted if they were told the club was moving to Telford to win planning permission for a new supermarket, changing its name and pretending that Telford MK had actually been in existence for some time and had just won promotion. I only wish it could happen so we could see all those shitbags whine and bitch because they've had their League place and history robbed from them by Asda. |
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Post by Not_Nick_H on May 7, 2015 12:40:07 GMT
I was one of the 17,000 cheering on my 'adopted' (by residence) 2nd team, so you can shove your collective attitudes where the Sun don't shine. Which kind of illustrates my point further up. How many MK Dons fans are "MK Dons first and foremost"? I suspect not many of them will be Stoke supporters primarily, but maybe Spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea and the like? |
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 7, 2015 17:53:14 GMT
MK Dons can get fucked, horrible club.
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Post by onionman on May 7, 2015 19:01:40 GMT
Anyone know if there are any former Wimbledon supporters who now support Milton Keynes? I think there are a few and presumably they are the people who would buy the scarf shown in these pictures but I think they are only a very small proportion of the current fan base. Have you met any, Malcolm? They must have a very strange matchday experience: travelling to another town to watch their home games, to support a team that doesn't represent anything to do with them, seemingly out of loyalty to the old Wimbledon, yet ironically perceived by the rest of the footballing world as being diabolically disloyal to the real old Wimbledon. |
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2015 19:29:58 GMT
I went to the fa cup game between MK Dons and AFC Wimbledon a couple of years ago..AFC asked for support from other clubs...there were Liverpool, Watford, Oxford, West Ham, Everton, Burton Albion, Man City, QPR, Bristol City to name a few and we all had our club shirts on...great day, they welcomed us with open arms..they did lose  and the home lot were arrogant. TEST |
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on May 8, 2015 15:17:56 GMT
I think there are a few and presumably they are the people who would buy the scarf shown in these pictures but I think they are only a very small proportion of the current fan base. Have you met any, Malcolm? They must have a very strange matchday experience: travelling to another town to watch their home games, to support a team that doesn't represent anything to do with them, seemingly out of loyalty to the old Wimbledon, yet ironically perceived by the rest of the footballing world as being diabolically disloyal to the real old Wimbledon. No, I don't think I have, onionman, but I heard about them at the time of the "peace negotiations" referred to above, because they were a factor Pete Winkleman had to deal with because, as you can imagine, they were bitterly opposed to the very idea of handing the "patrimony" ( to use the word used in the agreement) back to Merton. Speaking from memory I think one of the most voiciferous was the former Club Secretary of the 'old' Wimbledon, who re-located to MKD when the club moved there and he was still employed by them, and still regarded it as very much the same club, and his club. I think they regarded PW as having "sold out" by agreeing to hand back the history. I agree with you, it's a bizarre position to be in, especially when the vast majority of the old Wimbledon fan base had gone off to start a 'new' club ( or re-start the old one in spirit if not in law as they saw it). |
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Fucking politicians, in the loosest sense, taking decisions for the majority, who are not members? So basically they stole a clubs place in the league then gave that said club their history back? How the fuck does that work? Wasn't the plan to move a club from one area to another, saving Wimbledon? At least one thing they couldn't negotiate or take is another clubs soul and that's something they will never have!
and the home lot were arrogant.
