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Post by crownmeking on Apr 25, 2015 20:49:30 GMT
Glen to screen the defence and Marc so much more dependable than wolly and a much better partner for Ryan Glen suits nzonzi better too and clearly you can't play Ireland and Adam in the same team as they just both run out of steam Thought we missed Moses as well today who would have mirdered them when we had the ascendency first half Still very Confident ,Glem and Marc will be back next week . You talk some shit.
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Post by stokemanusa on Apr 25, 2015 20:50:01 GMT
Okay, So... Glenn was so missed because he would of increased Wollscheids passing by sitting still and that would of not increased their chances... got it. Love the Oatcake logic.
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Post by chesterfieldstokie on Apr 25, 2015 20:50:06 GMT
Of the same game... a mare throughout. The poster was commenting on the first half.
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Post by stokerstayinup on Apr 25, 2015 20:50:58 GMT
Yes, Defoe missed at least one easy chance Billy jone's missed a easy one aswell from one of Wolly's mishaps... behind Nzonzi. Right,ok,would 5-3 or 6-3 have flattered us!?
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Post by davejohnno1 on Apr 25, 2015 20:51:40 GMT
In an Attacking lineup with Adam in... shocking that... But to think the great Glenn Whelan would of changed the backline and bego throwing out a sub par match is grasping at it. I don't even know what point you're making in the first half of that sentence. Second, yeah, Begovic cost us the goal. That was why they scored. It wasn't why they created a fairly worrying number of very good chances despite being a) the away team and b) fucking abominable. I've just watched the football first coverage and every chance they had came from a wollschied error...every one with exception for their goal which was even worse by begovic than it looked at the game.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Apr 25, 2015 20:51:41 GMT
Where did I say the backline had no responsibility? Find the bit where I said that, I've actually said more than once tonight literally the opposite of that. They weren't lucky or unlucky, they were shit but they had several very cleat sights of goal due to our overall slackness defensively that someone not shit would have punished. Again, the last sentence is just incoherent, no idea what you're trying to say there. Our backline was shit at times and not the midfield players, they were so shit they had everyone worried throughout... not one midfielder had a bad game or "poor" game. To suggest they didn't do their job and speculating Glenn would of change that is utter horseshit seeing Steven had the most tackles directly in front of the back four screening for them in the shirt today. Only Arnuatovic came close in that area and he's a winger. Sorry but this thread is a joke and a slap in the face to one of the best midfield performances in nearly every stat and manner in a while irrespective if they were a shit side, it wasn't the midfield that gave them so many opportunites or the "lack" there of a sitting midfielder because a CB had the biggest mare passing this season. Since you're outright making stats up now there's little point in continuing this. The midfield on the ball were very good. Off the ball not so much. The defence was poor. They were also exposed for chunks of the game which didn't help.
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Post by stokemanusa on Apr 25, 2015 20:52:14 GMT
Billy jone's missed a easy one aswell from one of Wolly's mishaps... behind Nzonzi. Right,ok,would 5-3 or 6-3 have flattered us!? I don't know... does that factor in the sitting of Glenn Whelan or the sitting of Steven Nzonzi?
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Post by stokemanusa on Apr 25, 2015 20:52:49 GMT
I don't even know what point you're making in the first half of that sentence. Second, yeah, Begovic cost us the goal. That was why they scored. It wasn't why they created a fairly worrying number of very good chances despite being a) the away team and b) fucking abominable. I've just watched the football first coverage and every chance they had came from a wollschied error...every one with exception for their goal which was even worse by begovic than it looked at the game. Yep... nearly 5 in a 10 minute span... but blame Nzonzi and we missed a CDM to "mop that up."
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Post by stokerstayinup on Apr 25, 2015 20:54:24 GMT
Would a half time score of 3-1 or 4-1 have flattered us? No. We had our chances and should have capitalised on them. They will feel the same way though. No,can't have it.They got an undeserved point imo.Thought we battered them first half.Thought over confidence was our biggest problem.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2015 20:54:32 GMT
I am if football is a 100% stats driven game. Thankfully for my sanity it isn't, and it never will be. Did I say it was? your the one talking about "Saids" and "Supposed toos..." Nothing more than speculation and has nothing to do with actual events. Show me the stat that shows where a player looked at a situation and didn't deal with it and it lead to a direct shot on goal? You can't because stats only tell half a story. They tell you what happened, not what should have happened but didn't.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Apr 25, 2015 20:55:41 GMT
I don't even know what point you're making in the first half of that sentence. Second, yeah, Begovic cost us the goal. That was why they scored. It wasn't why they created a fairly worrying number of very good chances despite being a) the away team and b) fucking abominable. I've just watched the football first coverage and every chance they had came from a wollschied error...every one with exception for their goal which was even worse by begovic than it looked at the game. A Wollscheid error where he was playing it out from the back or an Wollscheid error where the ball's coming towards him? I thought Sunderland got into the final third incredibly easily when they were able to get forward with nobody stopping them. Defoe's two chances early second half came from them getting through the middle without too much stress either. Wolly was appalling though absolutely.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Apr 25, 2015 20:56:49 GMT
No. We had our chances and should have capitalised on them. They will feel the same way though. No,can't have it.They got an undeserved point imo.Thought we battered them first half.Thought over confidence was our biggest problem. Don't see how it was undeserved. We battered them first half. They were much improved second half and with the chances they had should have been more clinical.
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Post by stokemanusa on Apr 25, 2015 20:58:43 GMT
Our backline was shit at times and not the midfield players, they were so shit they had everyone worried throughout... not one midfielder had a bad game or "poor" game. To suggest they didn't do their job and speculating Glenn would of change that is utter horseshit seeing Steven had the most tackles directly in front of the back four screening for them in the shirt today. Only Arnuatovic came close in that area and he's a winger. Sorry but this thread is a joke and a slap in the face to one of the best midfield performances in nearly every stat and manner in a while irrespective if they were a shit side, it wasn't the midfield that gave them so many opportunites or the "lack" there of a sitting midfielder because a CB had the biggest mare passing this season. Since you're outright making stats up now there's little point in continuing this. The midfield on the ball were very good. Off the ball not so much. The defence was poor. They were also exposed for chunks of the game which didn't help. I'm making up stats? how so... go online... luck it up... Nzonzi's stat's their all over. Is it you can't stand the fact he had a good game in CM??? and it was a very good display? Why lie about it? Is it because Glenn is that much better no matter what in your "eyes" at "sitting"? They were exposed and out of position because of the backline, especially wollscheid end of. Quit thinking Glenn would of made the defense better it's utter tripe.
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Post by stokemanusa on Apr 25, 2015 20:59:39 GMT
Did I say it was? your the one talking about "Saids" and "Supposed toos..." Nothing more than speculation and has nothing to do with actual events. Show me the stat that shows where a player looked at a situation and didn't deal with it and it lead to a direct shot on goal? You can't because stats only tell half a story. They tell you what happened, not what should have happened but didn't. Show me the fact that a player was caught out of position because of a certain on loan CB... the entire match. Because that'd be great.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Apr 25, 2015 21:03:06 GMT
I've just watched the football first coverage and every chance they had came from a wollschied error...every one with exception for their goal which was even worse by begovic than it looked at the game. A Wollscheid error where he was playing it out from the back or an Wollscheid error where the ball's coming towards him? I thought Sunderland got into the final third incredibly easily when they were able to get forward with nobody stopping them. Defoe's two chances early second half came from them getting through the middle without too much stress either. Wolly was appalling though absolutely. A combination of both, all equally bad from him and whilst I don't disagree that they got through our midfield to easy second half, I thought that was more to do with a lack of legs from Ireland and Adam rather than anything n'zonzi did wrong in terms of his discipline.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2015 21:03:33 GMT
Show me the stat that shows where a player looked at a situation and didn't deal with it and it lead to a direct shot on goal? You can't because stats only tell half a story. They tell you what happened, not what should have happened but didn't. Show me the fact that a player was caught out of position because of a certain on loan CB... the entire match. Because that'd be great. You're the stats man. The floor is yours.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Apr 25, 2015 21:05:08 GMT
Since you're outright making stats up now there's little point in continuing this. The midfield on the ball were very good. Off the ball not so much. The defence was poor. They were also exposed for chunks of the game which didn't help. I'm making up stats? how so... go online... luck it up... Nzonzi's stat's their all over. Is it you can't stand the fact he had a good game in CM??? and it was a very good display? Why lie about it? Is it because Glenn is that much better no matter what in your "eyes" at "sitting"? They were exposed and out of position because of the backline, especially wollscheid end of. Quit thinking Glenn would of made the defense better it's utter tripe. So there's a stat for 'most tackles made in front of the back four' is there? By all means give us a link. Who was second in that one? Third? Why wouldn't I be able to stand the fact that Nzonzi - one of my favourite players - had a good game (which on the ball he did)? How can it be the back line's fault that it was exposed? They can and were poor anyway but how can they be exposed by themselves? That doesn't make any sense? It's not about Glenn himself it's about having a proper DM. You keep building straw man arguments though by all means, we're up to about six or seven on this thread alone.
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Post by stokemanusa on Apr 25, 2015 21:05:49 GMT
Show me the fact that a player was caught out of position because of a certain on loan CB... the entire match. Because that'd be great. You're the stats man. The floor is yours. No go ahead... I'm generally intrigued in your made up little dreams. I've shown the facts Nzonzi had a good defensive game... what you got? "Hughes said this..." Stoke CDM's are supposed to "Sit" I'm all ears...
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Post by stokerstayinup on Apr 25, 2015 21:06:08 GMT
No,can't have it.They got an undeserved point imo.Thought we battered them first half.Thought over confidence was our biggest problem. Don't see how it was undeserved. We battered them first half. They were much improved second half and with the chances they had should have been more clinical. They were awful.They deserved nowt.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Apr 25, 2015 21:06:40 GMT
A Wollscheid error where he was playing it out from the back or an Wollscheid error where the ball's coming towards him? I thought Sunderland got into the final third incredibly easily when they were able to get forward with nobody stopping them. Defoe's two chances early second half came from them getting through the middle without too much stress either. Wolly was appalling though absolutely. A combination of both, all equally bad from him and whilst I don't disagree that they got through our midfield to easy second half, I thought that was more to do with a lack of legs from Ireland and Adam rather than anything n'zonzi did wrong in terms of his discipline. I thought one of Adam or Nzonzi should have taken the responsibility, didn't matter who. Marking generally was poor I thought, Cameron and Walters on the right kept having to be bollocked by Shawcross about who to mark.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Apr 25, 2015 21:07:44 GMT
Don't see how it was undeserved. We battered them first half. They were much improved second half and with the chances they had should have been more clinical. They were awful.They deserved nowt. They were awful but they had a number of good chances and they'll feel they should have taken more of them. Second half we made them look good. We did not deserve to win today. We were good first half but didn't make it count and we were dreck defensively.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Apr 25, 2015 21:08:34 GMT
A combination of both, all equally bad from him and whilst I don't disagree that they got through our midfield to easy second half, I thought that was more to do with a lack of legs from Ireland and Adam rather than anything n'zonzi did wrong in terms of his discipline. I thought one of Adam or Nzonzi should have taken the responsibility, didn't matter who. Marking generally was poor I thought, Cameron and Walters on the right kept having to be bollocked by Shawcross about who to mark. How bad Cameron and Walters were was only masked because of wollschied's horror show.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2015 21:08:43 GMT
You're the stats man. The floor is yours. No go ahead... I'm generally intrigued in your made up little dreams. I've shown the facts Nzonzi had a good defensive game... what you got? "Hughes said this..." Stoke CDM's are supposed to "Sit" I'm all ears... Where have I said "Hughes said this.."? I think what is becoming very clear is that you do not understand a single thing about football, other than "stats".
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Post by chesterfieldstokie on Apr 25, 2015 21:10:37 GMT
No go ahead... I'm generally intrigued in your made up little dreams. I've shown the facts Nzonzi had a good defensive game... what you got? "Hughes said this..." Stoke CDM's are supposed to "Sit" I'm all ears... Where have I said "Hughes said this.."? I think what is becoming very clear is that you do not understand a single thing about football, other than "stats". You cant sat that Stokemanusa coached at a high level and is now a scout for a top American agency
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Post by tomsviews on Apr 25, 2015 21:11:29 GMT
I'm making up stats? how so... go online... luck it up... Nzonzi's stat's their all over. Is it you can't stand the fact he had a good game in CM??? and it was a very good display? Why lie about it? Is it because Glenn is that much better no matter what in your "eyes" at "sitting"? They were exposed and out of position because of the backline, especially wollscheid end of. Quit thinking Glenn would of made the defense better it's utter tripe. So there's a stat for 'most tackles made in front of the back four' is there? By all means give us a link. Who was second in that one? Third? Why wouldn't I be able to stand the fact that Nzonzi - one of my favourite players - had a good game (which on the ball he did)? How can it be the back line's fault that it was exposed? They can and were poor anyway but how can they be exposed by themselves? That doesn't make any sense? It's not about Glenn himself it's about having a proper DM. You keep building straw man arguments though by all means, we're up to about six or seven on this thread alone. If the stat exists it will be something of utter bollocks, as "in front of the back four" could be practically anywhere on the pitch, and does not in any way dispute the idea that Nzonzi did not really screen the back four well today. Although with the ball he was as excellent as ever.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2015 21:12:01 GMT
Where have I said "Hughes said this.."? I think what is becoming very clear is that you do not understand a single thing about football, other than "stats". You cant sat that Stokemanusa coached at a high level and is now a scout for a top American agency It just goes to show what kind of charlatans have latched onto this great game and are quite frankly, stealing a living out of it. I'm not surprised.
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Post by stokerstayinup on Apr 25, 2015 21:12:25 GMT
They were awful.They deserved nowt. They were awful but they had a number of good chances and they'll feel they should have taken more of them. Second half we made them look good. We did not deserve to win today. We were good first half but didn't make it count and we were dreck defensively. I agree that they improved in the second half but it was probably impossible for them not to!
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Post by stokemanusa on Apr 25, 2015 21:12:32 GMT
I'm making up stats? how so... go online... luck it up... Nzonzi's stat's their all over. Is it you can't stand the fact he had a good game in CM??? and it was a very good display? Why lie about it? Is it because Glenn is that much better no matter what in your "eyes" at "sitting"? They were exposed and out of position because of the backline, especially wollscheid end of. Quit thinking Glenn would of made the defense better it's utter tripe. So there's a stat for 'most tackles made in front of the back four' is there? By all means give us a link. Who was second in that one? Third? Why wouldn't I be able to stand the fact that Nzonzi - one of my favourite players - had a good game (which on the ball he did)? How can it be the back line's fault that it was exposed? They can and were poor anyway but how can they be exposed by themselves? That doesn't make any sense?It's not about Glenn himself it's about having a proper DM. You keep building straw man arguments though by all means, we're up to about six or seven on this thread alone. Did you see Wolly today? He exposed every stoke player nearly and himself... lets be real... The stat's are direct from the League... Opta and pulled from several online sites. You know where they are. If you have opta, go to the chalkboard it shows nzonzi's tackles... If not, go to who-scored.com (Who pulls opta's info but has less information) Nzonzi's tackles are all in our half after our back line gave it away besides two and near the box. It also shows how "poor" our distribution was from the back today... all over. Your argument is as straw as it gets... speculative and not actual events or based on the result. Glenn could of scored... just as he "could" of sat in the backline and gave us a 5 man defense...
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Post by stokemanusa on Apr 25, 2015 21:14:41 GMT
No go ahead... I'm generally intrigued in your made up little dreams. I've shown the facts Nzonzi had a good defensive game... what you got? "Hughes said this..." Stoke CDM's are supposed to "Sit" I'm all ears... Where have I said "Hughes said this.."? I think what is becoming very clear is that you do not understand a single thing about football, other than "stats". This time next year he will have no critics. Come again... ..only if he is not here. He is steady enough but not an upgrade on what we already have. If we sign a CH i want someone who is as good as Shawcross. I dont think Wolfie is that player. I think you and others of the same opinion are massively wrong and am confident it will be proven over the next 12 months. I think he is potentially a class centre half at this level and a perfect foil to a fit and firing Shawcross. What was that?
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Post by boskampsflaps on Apr 25, 2015 21:15:24 GMT
Glen who was shite against Southampton and single handedly lost us two points against West Ham? No thanks. Wilson. Just no. Single handedly lost us two points you need to watch it again, yes he fucked up and contributed to it, but did you not watch what happened next?
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