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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2015 13:35:54 GMT
The options are pretty easy actually, 1) obviously no bank or government will provide loans 2) they will not beable to get credit for anything, want a new warship built, that'll be 100% cash upfront please. 3) the devaluation of drachma2 will mean no one sensible will accept payment in this currency, $'s, £'s, €'s etc only please. Re 1) They probably will, but the World Bank or ECB or whoever they borrow from will no doubt have pressure put on them by Germany et al to only loan Greece money at rates considerably unfavourable when compared to the rates we borrow at for example. Their credit ratings will also go through the floor making this the default position for borrowings anyway. Much the same as having a dodgy credit history personally. Shoehorning Greece into the Eurozone vanity project wasn't a great idea from the start, but had the financial crisis not happened they'd be nowhere near as badly in the shit as they are now, and we know who caused that!
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Post by basingstokie on Jan 31, 2015 13:48:34 GMT
The options are pretty easy actually, 1) obviously no bank or government will provide loans 2) they will not beable to get credit for anything, want a new warship built, that'll be 100% cash upfront please. 3) the devaluation of drachma2 will mean no one sensible will accept payment in this currency, $'s, £'s, €'s etc only please. Re 1) They probably will, but the World Bank or ECB or whoever they borrow from will no doubt have pressure put on them by Germany et al to only loan Greece money at rates considerably unfavourable when compared to the rates we borrow at for example. Their credit ratings will also go through the floor making this the default position for borrowings anyway. Much the same as having a dodgy credit history personally. Shoehorning Greece into the Eurozone vanity project wasn't a great idea from the start, but had the financial crisis not happened they'd be nowhere near as badly in the shit as they are now, and we know who caused that! Not sure I agree with you there. In my opinion there is no rate of interest that could persuade me to lend money to Greece, as I suspect a) they will miss repayment deadlines and eventually the debt will be restructured with lower interest rates, delayed payment dates and probably me taking a haircut ( hate that expression) on the amount I will ever receive. It doesn't matter if interest is 1%, 10% or 100% if they don't pay it. Agree that they were strongly persuaded to join the euro, but ultimately their decision and a blind monkey could see that their economy is weaker than Germany & other nations and therefore forcing currency union is never going to end well. Boom times cover up the cracks because no one ever looks at how much better they could be doing, but it's still a disaster. Imo, they need to leave the euro and take some significant short term pain, rather than endure a generation of financial pain with constant renegotiations and bail outs.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2015 14:00:50 GMT
I wouldn't lend to them either!
But we're not financial institutions with billions of freshly hoovered up capital weighing up the risk of repayment (or even part-repayment) of loans at say 7.5 - 8% interest against loans to other countries of around 5%. Their economy is improving (slowly) and this is also something else which those same institutions will have an eye on.
I can't see them leaving the Euro, it would encourage others (Italy, Spain etc) to possibly follow suit. You never know though!
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Post by adri2008 on Jan 31, 2015 20:16:07 GMT
A default and exit from the EU is inevitable and probably what is needed in the long term. Plenty of short/medium term (years) of pain to come though - they can abandon austerity of course but that's not going to help when nobody will be willing to lend the country money at any sort of reasonable rate. They'll simply have to live within their means.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2015 20:26:58 GMT
I'm not even sure if the New Greek government knows what course of action they are likely to take , let alone it's financial implications.
On the one hand they have been elected to carry out their promises , but risk causing even more austerity by anti austerity measures.
This process of uncertainty is bound to destabilise the Greek economy and The EU in general.
The pound will continue to rise against the Euro for the foreseeable future until Greece and Merkel thrash out the minutiae of measures.
In the meantime ai will continue to shop at Aldi in preference to all the other major supermarkets apart from Farmfoods ...."any 3 for £10" is fucking excellent.!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2015 21:47:15 GMT
I wouldn't lend to them either! But we're not financial institutions with billions of freshly hoovered capital weighing up the risk of repayment (or even part-repayment) of loans at say 7.5 - 8% interest against loans to other countries of around 5%. Their economy is improving (slowly) and this is also something else which those same institutions will have an eye on. I can't see them leaving the Euro, it would encourage others (Italy, Spain etc) to possibly follow suit. You never know though!So, you mean you can't see them being allowed to leave ?
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Post by Northy on Feb 5, 2015 10:54:17 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2015 11:04:16 GMT
It seems there may be some good deals coming up .....don't be hasty
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Post by Gods on Feb 5, 2015 11:17:17 GMT
mmm...an average fee of £11 and it seems they are all at, what not to like Reminds me of a colleague at work who recently told me with great glee that you could "still get someone to sit on your face for £5 in Lagos, Nigeria" I must admit I was a little lost as to how I should appropriately respond to that observation
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2015 11:21:46 GMT
mmm...an average fee of £11 and it seems they are all at, what not to like Reminds me of a colleague at work who recently told me with great glee that you could "still get someone to sit on your face for £5 in Lagos, Nigeria" I must admit I was a little lost as to how I should appropriately respond to that observation You will work it out Gods .....and you obviously recognise a bargain when you see one
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Post by ************** on Feb 5, 2015 11:34:48 GMT
Say they are not going to pay the bailout, talk of leaving the euro etc, bet Phil the Greek is demanding the fleet be sent in, lastoftheldk, there is something I have been meaning to ask you for some time now. Could you explain to us, the story behind your name?
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Post by ************** on Feb 5, 2015 11:36:31 GMT
mmm...an average fee of £11 and it seems they are all at, what not to like Reminds me of a colleague at work who recently told me with great glee that you could "still get someone to sit on your face for £5 in Lagos, Nigeria" I must admit I was a little lost as to how I should appropriately respond to that observation You will work it out Gods .....and you obviously recognise a bargain when you see one Gods doesn't know his arse from his elbow Bish. He doesn't know whether he needs a shit or a haircut half the time. Hi Gods.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2015 8:32:42 GMT
I wouldn't lend to them either! But we're not financial institutions with billions of freshly hoovered capital weighing up the risk of repayment (or even part-repayment) of loans at say 7.5 - 8% interest against loans to other countries of around 5%. Their economy is improving (slowly) and this is also something else which those same institutions will have an eye on. I can't see them leaving the Euro, it would encourage others (Italy, Spain etc) to possibly follow suit. You never know though!So, you mean you can't see them being allowed to leave ? You could put it like that. Why have they been bailed out to such an extent already if allowing them to leave the Euro was ever an acceptable option for the rest of Europe? They're part of the experiment and having them leave would be dangerous for the whole thing. Did you see the million strong demo in Spain? They're waiting to see what happens in Greece I'd guess!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2015 9:05:24 GMT
So, you mean you can't see them being allowed to leave ? You could put it like that. Why have they been bailed out to such an extent already if allowing them to leave the Euro was ever an acceptable option for the rest of Europe? They're part of the experiment and having them leave would be dangerous for the whole thing. Did you see the million strong demo in Spain? They're waiting to see what happens in Greece I'd guess! Yes, i just wanted to clarify what you were saying....I'm not disputing it. In fact I agree with you. very dangerous people
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Post by elsidibe on Feb 7, 2015 10:40:29 GMT
Worth noting that the majority (70%ish) of Greeks don't actually want to leave the Euro. No coercion required.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2015 12:27:16 GMT
It's worth noting that staying in a marraige that obviously doesn't, and has never worked is stupid beyond belief
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Post by basingstokie on Feb 7, 2015 12:42:47 GMT
Worth noting that the majority (70%ish) of Greeks don't actually want to leave the Euro. No coercion required. But they voted for the party that said 'end austerity, restructure the debt', did they think Merkel et al would just forget about their debt? Presumably they'll ask for a write off/restructuring, Europe will say no, they then have to decide whether to leave of their own accord, pay in accordance with current schedule of repayments, or just don't pay and see what Europe will do.
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Post by elsidibe on Feb 7, 2015 15:49:17 GMT
It's worth noting that staying in a marraige that obviously doesn't, and has never worked is stupid beyond belief The majority of Greeks - rightly or wrongly - clearly don't agree that the marriage isn't working though.
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Post by elsidibe on Feb 7, 2015 15:54:46 GMT
Worth noting that the majority (70%ish) of Greeks don't actually want to leave the Euro. No coercion required. But they voted for the party that said 'end austerity, restructure the debt', did they think Merkel et al would just forget about their debt? Presumably they'll ask for a write off/restructuring, Europe will say no, they then have to decide whether to leave of their own accord, pay in accordance with current schedule of repayments, or just don't pay and see what Europe will do. Europe will have to restructure the debt because they've had their bluff successfully called. Tsipras has said restructure, not renege.
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Post by harryburrows on Feb 7, 2015 16:19:15 GMT
But they voted for the party that said 'end austerity, restructure the debt', did they think Merkel et al would just forget about their debt? Presumably they'll ask for a write off/restructuring, Europe will say no, they then have to decide whether to leave of their own accord, pay in accordance with current schedule of repayments, or just don't pay and see what Europe will do. Europe will have to restructure the debt because they've had their bluff successfully called. Tsipras has said restructure, not renege. As the old saying goes if I owe the bank £1000 I have a problem if I owe the bank £1,000000 the bank has a problem . The Greeks will never be able to repay this debt , ever !! So they have nothing to lose by de-fault ing if they choose this option the other major debtors could follow suit , the shit will really hit the fan if this happens the whole euro currency could be undermined very quickly
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2015 16:34:17 GMT
It's worth noting that staying in a marraige that obviously doesn't, and has never worked is stupid beyond belief The majority of Greeks - rightly or wrongly - clearly don't agree that the marriage isn't working though. Is that right? show me how clearly ive only had a quick look, but can't see no info on this cheers fudgefacefrase
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Post by ************** on Feb 7, 2015 16:57:06 GMT
The majority of Greeks - rightly or wrongly - clearly don't agree that the marriage isn't working though. Is that right? show me how clearly ive only had a quick look, but can't see no info on this cheers fudgefacefrase The point is that you can't rely on any particular source for validated facts these days. The press and media isn't doing its job any more and the banks control things, rather than the governments. Surely that's clear to everyone? The general public are just an irritant that can be very easily manipulated. Gentlemen, I put it to you that we live in very dark satanic times. The only winners will be the likes of Goldman-Sachs. They run the book and control the perceived opinion. WIN-WIN. Half the worlds wealth lies within the pockets of 1% of the global populous. I just wonder how far this astonishing figure will get before there really is a global civil war. Look at Saudi Arabia and the trillions of dollars profit they make quarterly. Yet 80% of Saudi nationals live in or on the poverty line in a shit tip of a country. It's a piss poor state of affairs. It really is.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2015 17:18:18 GMT
Is that right? show me how clearly ive only had a quick look, but can't see no info on this cheers fudgefacefrase The point is that you can't rely on any particular source for validated facts these days. The press and media isn't doing its job any more and the banks control things, rather than the governments. Surely that's clear to everyone? The general public are just an irritant that can be very easily manipulated. Gentlemen, I put it to you that we live in very dark satanic times. The only winners will be the likes of Goldman-Sachs. They run the book and control the perceived opinion. WIN-WIN. Half the worlds wealth lies within the pockets of 1% of the global populous. I just wonder how far this astonishing figure will get before there really is a global civil war. Look at Saudi Arabia and the trillions of dollars profit they make quarterly. Yet 80% of Saudi nationals live in or on the poverty line in a shit tip of a country. It's a piss poor state of affairs. It really is. there can only be one winner....and it's not the majority
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Post by ************** on Feb 7, 2015 17:34:39 GMT
The more I learn about this world, the more uncomfortable I feel. I find this fact particularly hard for young people as the world in which they think they live, as indeed the world I thought I lived in, really is something of a myth. Now i'm not suggesting that i'm smarter, or know more than our youngsters or anyone really, but with maturity and exposure to different cultures I seem to have inadvertently pulled perhaps a few too many layers of skin off the old onion than perhaps I should have done. If you go poking around for the truth I suppose you should really be prepared to accept whatever it is you find. The old addage "Ignorance is bliss" is very, very true. Sorry for getting a bit philosophical for a moment there.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2015 17:48:13 GMT
The more I learn about this world, the more uncomfortable I feel. I find this fact particularly hard for young people as the world in which they think they live, as indeed the world I thought I lived in, really is something of a myth. Now i'm not suggesting that i'm smarter, or know more than our youngsters or anyone really, but with maturity and exposure to different cultures I seem to have inadvertently pulled perhaps a few too many layers of skin off the old onion than perhaps I should have done. If you go poking around for the truth I suppose you should really be prepared to accept whatever it is you find. The old addage "Ignorance is bliss" is very, very true. Sorry for getting a bit philosophical for a moment there. Glad it's not just me Clifton
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Post by ************** on Feb 7, 2015 17:55:34 GMT
The more I learn about this world, the more uncomfortable I feel. I find this fact particularly hard for young people as the world in which they think they live, as indeed the world I thought I lived in, really is something of a myth. Now i'm not suggesting that i'm smarter, or know more than our youngsters or anyone really, but with maturity and exposure to different cultures I seem to have inadvertently pulled perhaps a few too many layers of skin off the old onion than perhaps I should have done. If you go poking around for the truth I suppose you should really be prepared to accept whatever it is you find. The old addage "Ignorance is bliss" is very, very true. Sorry for getting a bit philosophical for a moment there. Glad it's not just me Clifton I'll buy you a pint in the not too distant old boy. I'm down today, got drawn into a fight in a bar last night as well. I have lumps on my head today and a small shiner. The missus took a misdirected punch in the arm as well.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Feb 7, 2015 18:00:40 GMT
Is that right? show me how clearly ive only had a quick look, but can't see no info on this cheers fudgefacefrase The point is that you can't rely on any particular source for validated facts these days. The press and media isn't doing its job any more and the banks control things, rather than the governments. Surely that's clear to everyone? The general public are just an irritant that can be very easily manipulated. Gentlemen, I put it to you that we live in very dark satanic times. The only winners will be the likes of Goldman-Sachs. They run the book and control the perceived opinion. WIN-WIN. Half the worlds wealth lies within the pockets of 1% of the global populous. I just wonder how far this astonishing figure will get before there really is a global civil war. Look at Saudi Arabia and the trillions of dollars profit they make quarterly. Yet 80% of Saudi nationals live in or on the poverty line in a shit tip of a country. It's a piss poor state of affairs. It really is. Spot on Sir, spot on.
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Post by ************** on Feb 7, 2015 18:15:09 GMT
The point is that you can't rely on any particular source for validated facts these days. The press and media isn't doing its job any more and the banks control things, rather than the governments. Surely that's clear to everyone? The general public are just an irritant that can be very easily manipulated. Gentlemen, I put it to you that we live in very dark satanic times. The only winners will be the likes of Goldman-Sachs. They run the book and control the perceived opinion. WIN-WIN. Half the worlds wealth lies within the pockets of 1% of the global populous. I just wonder how far this astonishing figure will get before there really is a global civil war. Look at Saudi Arabia and the trillions of dollars profit they make quarterly. Yet 80% of Saudi nationals live in or on the poverty line in a shit tip of a country. It's a piss poor state of affairs. It really is. Spot on Sir, spot on. I often wonder how many more pressures and burdens can be placed on people before they react and come out fighting. And I always arrive at the same conclusion. I think that the whole scenario will have to get many, many times worse before any serious challenge to the current system is made and it certainly won't be in my lifetime, that's for sure. We are living in some sort of digital dark age where the once free tools of democracy - the press and the internet in particular - have been well and truly turned against the people in the name of the war on terror, the war on drugs, the war on ISIS, the war on obesity, the war on *insert problem here*... The second half of the twentieth century really was a peach, this century, so far, sucks. If the lights went out across Europe and the people were told that it was caused by the earth's polarity switching, people would just swallow it. They would. That's how powerful the manipulation has become. Real truths in sufficient context are so hard to get at these days, I no longer think that anybody can be certain about anything any more. That's why I like football so much, it's innocent.
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Post by elsidibe on Feb 7, 2015 18:25:43 GMT
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Feb 7, 2015 18:28:25 GMT
I often wonder how many more pressures and burdens can be placed on people before they react and come out fighting. And I always arrive at the same conclusion. I think that the whole scenario will have to get many, many times worse before any serious challenge to the current system is made and it certainly won't be in my lifetime, that's for sure. We are living in some sort of digital dark age where the once free tools of democracy - the press and the internet in particular - have been well and truly turned against the people in the name of the war on terror, the war on drugs, the war on ISIS, the war on obesity, the war on *insert problem here*... The second half of the twentieth century really was a peach, this century, so far, sucks. If the lights went out across Europe and the people were told that it was caused by the earth's polarity switching, people would just swallow it. They would. That's how powerful the manipulation has become. Real truths in sufficient context are so hard to get at these days, I no longer think that anybody can be certain about anything any more. That's why I like football so much, it's innocent. Careful mate...some on here will be calling you a conspiracy theorist
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