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Post by cheeesfreeex on Dec 11, 2014 17:55:36 GMT
Mick {I'm Alright Jack}.. Bringing a bit of nogger into it. Look at the inequality in football, Premiership vs grass roots etc. With some campaigning and a will to change then maybe there could be a better distribution of wealth. It's not an idea I've given up on. Changes are happening and who knows what the football landscape may look like in ten years time if concerned people keep pushing for change. Why can't this be applied to society as a whole? A move towards more equality, at least more equality of opportunity. I don't think anyone is suggesting that we should abandon 'money', {in your responses to Edge you've set up Straw man arguments, something you're quick to accuse others of} but there are loads of examples of bartering and 'black' market and I can only see this increasing. Things have, and do change over time, look at Wat Tyler and John Ball, the Trade Union Movement etc etc. Just because things have been a certain way for a while doesn't mean it'll always be thus. In dismissing struggles for suffrage, movements against serfdom and slavery I reckon you are underestimating the 'revolutions' that these things inspired. The House of Lords will go, Corporations will continue to be pressured into more social responsibility and who knows? The starting point for change is bringing about awareness and questioning the status quo, Brand is part of this. I'll repeat, good on him. I'm sure he's causing consternation amongst the ruling hegemony. Edit: I hadn't seen your post above Edge.. I've repeated a few of your points. That's because you are correct. ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/KYqg3pYeaerc5lD_P7BR.gif)
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Post by salopstick on Dec 11, 2014 23:02:43 GMT
Instead of answering questions he turns it into personal attacks on farage. Speaks over everyone else.
And he's just been owned.
Stand for parliment Russell.
No.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2014 23:06:15 GMT
Do as I say .....not as I do.
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Post by salopstick on Dec 11, 2014 23:06:52 GMT
I remember Martin bell getting elected fighting corruption.
Russell brand has a message. But when it comes to the crunch he's all mouth.
He has 9m followers, his YouTube gets 10m hits he has a platform to get elected and fight it from within
He is all hot hair no action
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Post by boothenboy75 on Dec 11, 2014 23:15:26 GMT
He's making Joey Barton look distinguished!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2014 23:18:43 GMT
It says a lot about those who like him too. ![(whistle)](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/u7JMveaFGUL6du8bflWQ.gif)
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Post by chigstoke on Dec 11, 2014 23:29:03 GMT
I absolutely cannot stand this fucking man. 'I'm frightened of turning into one of them' when asked to stand up for parliament.
Don't let him fucking stand. Farage and the man who asked the question had him there and then.
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Post by salopstick on Dec 11, 2014 23:31:04 GMT
As soon as the man with the stick owned him he was quiet. Most of his time on that program was spent attacking ukip
I'm not a ukip supporter but farage was very good tonight on QT
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Post by chigstoke on Dec 11, 2014 23:34:19 GMT
As soon as the man with the stick owned him he was quiet. Most of his time on that program was spent attacking ukip I'm not a ukip supporter but farage was very good tonight on QT Various little digs at UKIP and Farage himself. Very petty. The man with the stick made a brilliant point. Like you, I'm not a UKIP supporter but agree Farage has been good.
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Post by salopstick on Dec 11, 2014 23:42:55 GMT
If love to see famous people who care about issues use that fame to do somthing worthwhile.
Sen Coe did, Glenda Jackson did, Martin bell did
Not enough
If you care about the issues and want to go tv and speak about them you should be prepared to act.
The thing is the bottom line he'd rather be on the piss with wossy
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2014 23:45:41 GMT
Money along with the system we currently have are man-made social constructions that can be changed if there is a desire to do so. You saying 'it's just the way it is and it can't be changed' makes me smile because people were probably saying the same thing about votes for women and the civil rights movement. There are countless examples throughout history where we the people have changed the way in which our society is structured, slavery is one just example. basic human rights and liberation is far far easier to pull off than to completely rid the world of all financial systems which is ultimately 100% necessary to gain any kind of a truly equal society. what you're doing is taking 1 situation or issue (whether that 1 situation was women's lib, slavery, racial inequality) that was resolved and therefore presuming the issues of the whole of society can therefore be solved as well despite the fact that "Society" has scores and scores of issues that many will completely disagree on. women's lib was basically a case of giving equal rights to men (obviously it wasn't quite as easy as that), what you want is not just one sex to be brought up to the existing level of others but for the whole of society to have a complete and utter makeover in the way taxes are dealt with, the distribution of wealth, a fairer system of education, a more transparent dialogue between those in power and the rest of us and ultimately (but extremely importantly!!!) for people everywhere to completely alter human nature and synchronise all of that in one fell swoop. if you think it can be done then crack on, i wish you luck but i suspect that in 20 years you'll be just as cynical as the rst of us. that isn't supposed to be patronising at all mate, genuinely it isn't (but i know it will read like that)...it is simply a case of i think you'll find that a hell of a lot of people on here had the same idealist views that you currently have...the truth is though, that whether you, me or anyone else likes it or not it just isn't how the world works, has EVER worked or ever will work unless you change the natural instinct of pretty much the entire natural world and animal kingdom i.e. to be bigger, better, stronger, more dominant, more powerful than your competitors. and that isn't a spurious or flippant comment at all (many philosophers, scientists, anthropologists and sociologists as it happens have all said exactly the same thing), it is innate in all animals (including us) to get more and be more than we currently are. as long as that exists then true equality cannot exist. we seem to think that because we have a "Conscious" element to us and the world around us that we are therefore somehow superior to other animals and immune to their innate weaknesses of will and spirit, the truth is that we are no different in those respects. No as long as there are human beings then there will not be true equality in society ever. it's just isn't part of our nature, if it was then we wouldn't have survived this long as we'd have been outcompeted by the other humanoid species that we "Beat" along the evolutionary motorway we travel on. P.S. edgepotter...come on here more often!! refreshing to have a good debate and a bit of cut and thrust where people haven't just called each other wankers and offered a meet at the Stanley Matthews statue to sort it out ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/kwfoKwtHI0jglJZ4qZf6.gif) Not like you then Mick wanting a good argument ? Alas poor ************** ? ..... ![::)](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/cj7bsBj2jOTuEAUVaPt5.gif)
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Post by ColonelMustard on Dec 11, 2014 23:50:50 GMT
Whatever you think of Brand I've got a feeling "pound shop Enoch Powell" might stick.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2014 23:52:00 GMT
You must see the irony in that post Wizzard. {I don't think sympathy is a particularly helpful emotion, but surely it's possible to have sympathy for both victims of war, and victims of an unjust society. Not really sure why you brought soldiers in to it.} I'm surprised that having worked in a psychiatric setting that you're prepared to be so dismissive of people and label them 'scum'. There's some superficial {mis}understanding of 'Sociology' going on in some of the posts here. Seems to be a mix-up between the cliche of 'do-gooders', and what Sociology actually is/does. Drugs? Structural inequalities, lack of opportunity and education, and an overwhelming desire to escape from the shite that folk have to endure often perpetuates problem drug use. There's plenty of drug use that isn't deemed problematic. I've worked with young people in care and leaving care {amongst other stuff} . These people are massively over represented in prisons/prostitution/drug use/teenage pregnancy/mental health/unemployment etc. They're basically children who've been abandoned by their parents and by a society that largely doesn't care. They're not really scum, and rarely 'choose' their path, it often becomes cyclical: poor housing, lack of chances etc etc. You've summarised my thoughts quite nicely, if you've actually studied sociology and still hold the views of wizzardofdribble then that'sa an entirely different matter but I do think people are definitely guilty of some misunderstandings regarding sociology. Ah sociology ! The overstated topic of the ideological elite ! .......words without an intelligible meaning .....intellectual assumed snobbery ...sociologists have always made me smile ... ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/kwfoKwtHI0jglJZ4qZf6.gif)
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2014 23:53:43 GMT
You must see the irony in that post Wizzard. {I don't think sympathy is a particularly helpful emotion, but surely it's possible to have sympathy for both victims of war, and victims of an unjust society. Not really sure why you brought soldiers in to it.} I'm surprised that having worked in a psychiatric setting that you're prepared to be so dismissive of people and label them 'scum'. There's some superficial {mis}understanding of 'Sociology' going on in some of the posts here. Seems to be a mix-up between the cliche of 'do-gooders', and what Sociology actually is/does. Drugs? Structural inequalities, lack of opportunity and education, and an overwhelming desire to escape from the shite that folk have to endure often perpetuates problem drug use. There's plenty of drug use that isn't deemed problematic. I've worked with young people in care and leaving care {amongst other stuff} . These people are massively over represented in prisons/prostitution/drug use/teenage pregnancy/mental health/unemployment etc. They're basically children who've been abandoned by their parents and by a society that largely doesn't care. They're not really scum, and rarely 'choose' their path, it often becomes cyclical: poor housing, lack of chances etc etc. You've summarised my thoughts quite nicely, if you've actually studied sociology and still hold the views of wizzardofdribble then that's an entirely different matter but I do think people are definitely guilty of some misunderstandings regarding sociology. Yes indeed .. ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/0m0lbCuTEBzaRn6f8QaM.gif)
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Post by edgepotter on Dec 12, 2014 0:05:42 GMT
As soon as the man with the stick owned him he was quiet. Most of his time on that program was spent attacking ukip I'm not a ukip supporter but farage was very good tonight on QT I've couple of points to make regarding his input so far, I like and agree with a lot of what he has to say but he's not immune from criticism so I'll be completely honest - he answered the question from the gentleman regarding standing for election abysmally. I'm really surprised because to me it seems like he hadn't prepared for such a question and just said the first thing that came into his head, he should've known better in my opinion. I'd also just like to add that although the gentleman asked a valid, reasonable question regarding standing for election his contempt for Brand regarding disabled people whilst his praise of Farage was baffling, Brand has never 'attacked' disabled people at all. Just a final point on this Brands answer would have been much better if he had correctly said that none of the current political parties share his ideology so how could he possibly stand for election at the moment. - regarding immigration, I always think of the famous Star Wars line 'these aren't the droids you're looking for' for me it's such a side issue compared to other more pressing issues. Personally I can see what Russell was trying to do by attacking Farage and his 'city banker mates' as well as corporations because immigrants aren't the reason for the economic state we're in, I think he was trying to be clever and avoid the topic of immigration altogether but I don't think he managed to pull off what he thought he was going to do, it didn't come across very well. - Regarding the NHS I thought he was correct. I've stopped watching for now but I'll pick up the rest tomorrow and give some more honest opinions. - him referring to Nigel Farage as a pound shop Enoch Powell was amusing I've stopped watching for now but I'll pick up the rest tomorrow and give some more honest opinions.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2014 0:09:16 GMT
As soon as the man with the stick owned him he was quiet. Most of his time on that program was spent attacking ukip I'm not a ukip supporter but farage was very good tonight on QT I've couple of points to make regarding his input so far, I like and agree with a lot of what he has to say but he's not immune from criticism so I'll be completely honest - he answered the question from the gentleman regarding standing for election abysmally. I'm really surprised because to me it seems like he hadn't prepared for such a question and just said the first thing that came into his head, he should've known better in my opinion. I'd also just like to add that although the gentleman asked a valid, reasonable question regarding standing for election his contempt for Brand regarding disabled people whilst his praise of Farage was baffling, Brand has never 'attacked' disabled people at all. Just a final point on this Brands answer would have been much better if he had correctly said that none of the current political parties share his ideology so how could he possibly stand for election at the moment. - regarding immigration, I always think of the famous Star Wars line 'these aren't the droids you're looking for' for me it's such a side issue compared to other more pressing issues. Personally I can see what Russell was trying to do by attacking Farage and his 'city banker mates' as well as corporations because immigrants aren't the reason for the economic state we're in, I think he was trying to be clever and avoid the topic of immigration altogether but I don't think he managed to pull off what he thought he was going to do, it didn't come across very well. - Regarding the NHS I thought he was correct. I've stopped watching for now but I'll pick up the rest tomorrow and give some more honest opinions. Well I for one can't wait until tomorrow .... ![::)](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/cj7bsBj2jOTuEAUVaPt5.gif)
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Post by salopstick on Dec 12, 2014 0:20:11 GMT
As soon as the man with the stick owned him he was quiet. Most of his time on that program was spent attacking ukip I'm not a ukip supporter but farage was very good tonight on QT I've couple of points to make regarding his input so far, I like and agree with a lot of what he has to say but he's not immune from criticism so I'll be completely honest - he answered the question from the gentleman regarding standing for election abysmally. I'm really surprised because to me it seems like he hadn't prepared for such a question and just said the first thing that came into his head, he should've known better in my opinion. I'd also just like to add that although the gentleman asked a valid, reasonable question regarding standing for election his contempt for Brand regarding disabled people whilst his praise of Farage was baffling, Brand has never 'attacked' disabled people at all. Just a final point on this Brands answer would have been much better if he had correctly said that none of the current political parties share his ideology so how could he possibly stand for election at the moment. - regarding immigration, I always think of the famous Star Wars line 'these aren't the droids you're looking for' for me it's such a side issue compared to other more pressing issues. Personally I can see what Russell was trying to do by attacking Farage and his 'city banker mates' as well as corporations because immigrants aren't the reason for the economic state we're in, I think he was trying to be clever and avoid the topic of immigration altogether but I don't think he managed to pull off what he thought he was going to do, it didn't come across very well. - Regarding the NHS I thought he was correct. I've stopped watching for now but I'll pick up the rest tomorrow and give some more honest opinions. - him referring to Nigel Farage as a pound shop Enoch Powell was amusing I've stopped watching for now but I'll pick up the rest tomorrow and give some more honest opinions. watch it carefully. He didn't attack brand over disabled people. He attacked brand over farages alleged attacks on disabled people Farage said he has never attacked disabled people. Pound shop Enoch Powell. Very funny as a comedian. Not so much when he wants to be taken seriously as a campaigner. The first question was about pettiness in politics. On that program brand was as petty as they come And party political ideology is irrelevant to brand standing for election. He could stand for any party he chooses or as an independent.
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Post by edgepotter on Dec 12, 2014 0:27:31 GMT
It says a lot about those who like him too. ![(whistle)](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/u7JMveaFGUL6du8bflWQ.gif) Fully prepared to admit he started Question Time very poorly, it's not a great 'shop window' advertisement for him (so to speak). but I'd love to pick this up with you tomorrow mumfy because it seems like it's very easy for you to chirp up when you know there's a chance you'll look good in an argument. But where have you been whilst I've been making several, well reasoned points with regards to why I think he's right about a lot of the things he says.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2014 0:33:07 GMT
It says a lot about those who like him too. ![(whistle)](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/u7JMveaFGUL6du8bflWQ.gif) Fully prepared to admit he started Question Time very poorly, it's not a great 'shop window' advertisement for him (so to speak). but I'd love to pick this up with you tomorrow mumfy because it seems like it's very easy for you to chirp up when you know there's a chance you'll look good in an argument. But where have you been whilst I've been making several, well reasoned points with regards to why I think he's right about a lot of the things he says. Well reasoned points are irrelevant ...where mumf is concerned ....but he does love a good argument ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/kwfoKwtHI0jglJZ4qZf6.gif)
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2014 0:37:37 GMT
It says a lot about those who like him too. ![(whistle)](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/u7JMveaFGUL6du8bflWQ.gif) Fully prepared to admit he started Question Time very poorly, it's not a great 'shop window' advertisement for him (so to speak). but I'd love to pick this up with you tomorrow mumfy because it seems like it's very easy for you to chirp up when you know there's a chance you'll look good in an argument. But where have you been whilst I've been making several, well reasoned points with regards to why I think he's right about a lot of the things he says. Much as I know you'd love me to engage you on this particular subject , and safe in the knowledge that you seem to think that attrition is the best policy in order to justify your points , I sadly cannot draw up the enthusiasm . I know you may think this is a 'cop out ' on my part , but let me assure you it is not. My socialist leanings is well known , but on matters such as this one , I'm afraid it does not inspire me at all. It's simply the subject matter ''brand' .....or put more simply ...the lack of it. I watched half the program , and true to form the idiot was true to form ...exactly what I was expecting..... So....I must reiterate ...I will decline any opportunity to look good in this debate . Not that it would be too difficult to achieve . The floor is yours .... Mumf
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2014 0:39:02 GMT
What a bastard!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2014 0:40:13 GMT
Fully prepared to admit he started Question Time very poorly, it's not a great 'shop window' advertisement for him (so to speak). but I'd love to pick this up with you tomorrow mumfy because it seems like it's very easy for you to chirp up when you know there's a chance you'll look good in an argument. But where have you been whilst I've been making several, well reasoned points with regards to why I think he's right about a lot of the things he says. Much as I know you'd love me to engage you on this particular subject , and safe in the knowledge that you seem to think that attrition is the best policy in order to justify your points , I sadly cannot draw up the enthusiasm . I know you may think this is a 'cop out ' on my part , but let me assure you it is not. My socialist leanings is well known , but on matters such as this one , I'm afraid it does not inspire me at all. It's simply the subject matter ''brand' .....or put more simply ...the lack of it. I watched half the program , and true to form the idiot was true to form ...exactly what I was expecting..... So....I must reiterate ...I will decline any opportunity to look good in this debate . Not that it would be too difficult to achieve . The floor is yours .... Mumf How sad mate
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2014 0:41:29 GMT
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Dec 12, 2014 0:42:09 GMT
You've summarised my thoughts quite nicely, if you've actually studied sociology and still hold the views of wizzardofdribble then that'sa an entirely different matter but I do think people are definitely guilty of some misunderstandings regarding sociology. Ah sociology ! The overstated topic of the ideological elite ! .......words without an intelligible meaning .....intellectual assumed snobbery ...sociologists have always made me smile ... ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/kwfoKwtHI0jglJZ4qZf6.gif) I'm quoted in this, but I havn't got a clue what you're trying to say, your post is way above me... or it's nonsense. If Sociologicalists make you smile... why worry?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2014 0:43:50 GMT
Ah sociology ! The overstated topic of the ideological elite ! .......words without an intelligible meaning .....intellectual assumed snobbery ...sociologists have always made me smile ... ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/kwfoKwtHI0jglJZ4qZf6.gif) I'm quoted in this, but I havn't got a clue what you're trying to say, your post is way above me... or it's nonsense. If Sociologicalists make you smile... why worry? Don't worry about it then is my advice ...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2014 0:46:44 GMT
Much as I know you'd love me to engage you on this particular subject , and safe in the knowledge that you seem to think that attrition is the best policy in order to justify your points , I sadly cannot draw up the enthusiasm . I know you may think this is a 'cop out ' on my part , but let me assure you it is not. My socialist leanings is well known , but on matters such as this one , I'm afraid it does not inspire me at all. It's simply the subject matter ''brand' .....or put more simply ...the lack of it. I watched half the program , and true to form the idiot was true to form ...exactly what I was expecting..... So....I must reiterate ...I will decline any opportunity to look good in this debate . Not that it would be too difficult to achieve . The floor is yours .... Mumf How sad mate Not really....I'm sure you can see why . ![(whiteflag)](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/HArWf7IGynTyf0kQFpe_.gif)
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Dec 12, 2014 0:52:08 GMT
I don't own a goggle box so went to the boozer to watch QT. It was a set up... they put Brand amongst some fine Cougars... what was he supposed to do but pass notes to them... He'll be up Mordant {the Ministeress of Fire} as we speak, then the journalist, the Labour lady... Dimblebum and Farage will have to watch.
Russell's single agenda let him down tonight, so what? keep kicking Russ.
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Dec 12, 2014 0:54:38 GMT
I'm quoted in this, but I havn't got a clue what you're trying to say, your post is way above me... or it's nonsense. If Sociologicalists make you smile... why worry? Don't worry about it then is my advice ... Explain yourself.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2014 0:54:59 GMT
I'm quoted in this, but I havn't got a clue what you're trying to say, your post is way above me... or it's nonsense. If Sociologicalists make you smile... why worry? Don't worry about it then is my advice ... Why is it nonesense? ....because you haven't a clue ? .....I understand that things may be above your understanding .....I'm not worrying ..are you ?...dear me ?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2014 0:59:47 GMT
I don't own a goggle box so went to the boozer to watch QT. It was a set up... they put Brand amongst some fine Cougars... what was he supposed to do but pass notes to them... He'll be up Mordant {the Ministeress of Fire} as we speak, then the journalist, the Labour lady... Dimblebum and Farage will have to watch. Russell's single agenda let him down tonight, so what? keep kicking Russ. An interesting admission that....the bit about you not owning a TV . This year was was the first time that there was an actual decline in people owning Or watching TV's .... They reckon that this is as a result of people using laptops instead . Can I ask what your reason is for not having one ...? Just interested .
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