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Post by salopstick on Dec 12, 2014 12:12:34 GMT
and how is he supposed to get his ideology across if he is delivering it in the same way - its gets lost in the pettiness he is not offering anything new, hes not prepared to do anything to change I fully agree with you regarding it getting lost in the pettiness I think he could do with taking advice from people like yourself regarding it. Thank you. It's all we've been saying all week
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Dec 12, 2014 12:14:50 GMT
Well I feel much better after that edge ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/KYqg3pYeaerc5lD_P7BR.gif) Don't take anything I say personally..the comments about Sociology were tongue in cheek but maybe a bit offensive..no offence meant. Take what I say with a very large pinch of salt ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/0m0lbCuTEBzaRn6f8QaM.gif)
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Dec 12, 2014 12:17:06 GMT
I fully agree with you regarding it getting lost in the pettiness I think he could do with taking advice from people like yourself regarding it. Thank you. It's all we've been saying all week Take advice from Salop ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/kwfoKwtHI0jglJZ4qZf6.gif)
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Post by edgepotter on Dec 12, 2014 12:23:10 GMT
Well I feel much better after that edge ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/KYqg3pYeaerc5lD_P7BR.gif) Don't take anything I say personally..the comments about Sociology were tongue in cheek but maybe a bit offensive..no offence meant. Take what I say with a very large pinch of salt ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/0m0lbCuTEBzaRn6f8QaM.gif) I was about to start another thread regarding sociology because I was surprised by some attitudes towards it but I won't bother now. I think I've got a bit to learn still
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Post by edgepotter on Dec 12, 2014 12:25:33 GMT
Thank you. It's all we've been saying all week Take advice from Salop ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/kwfoKwtHI0jglJZ4qZf6.gif) Some advice ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/0m0lbCuTEBzaRn6f8QaM.gif) it's not quite what he's been saying all week but I understand his points, as I'm sure you can all see where I'm coming from. I hope I've explained myself we well enough anyway. I think we can always learn things even from the people we disagree with.
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Dec 12, 2014 12:36:52 GMT
Well I feel much better after that edge ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/KYqg3pYeaerc5lD_P7BR.gif) Don't take anything I say personally..the comments about Sociology were tongue in cheek but maybe a bit offensive..no offence meant. Take what I say with a very large pinch of salt ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/0m0lbCuTEBzaRn6f8QaM.gif) I was about to start another thread regarding sociology because I was surprised by some attitudes towards it but I won't bother now. I think I've got a bit to learn still We've all got a bit to learn and sometimes it's better to agree to disagree as long as the argument is conducted in a civilised way. ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/KYqg3pYeaerc5lD_P7BR.gif)
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Post by edgepotter on Dec 12, 2014 12:42:24 GMT
I was about to start another thread regarding sociology because I was surprised by some attitudes towards it but I won't bother now. I think I've got a bit to learn still We've all got a bit to learn and sometimes it's better to agree to disagree as long as the argument is conducted in a civilised way. ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/KYqg3pYeaerc5lD_P7BR.gif) Couldn't agree more It's encouraged me to stick around and talk about things other than Russell Brand anyway so you'll be seeing more contributions from me.
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Post by followyoudown on Dec 12, 2014 12:43:52 GMT
He was also massively misinformed, the tax take on bankers bonuses via personal taxation is higher than the tax take if banks had higher profits without them. Pre written cue cards with his jokes and “facts” to get across and generally he looked like a rabbit caught in the headlights. The one thing not to come out of his mouth when talking about how to pay for things was to increase the top rate of tax on people like him and his mates, no he wanted someone else to pay for it. I can show you several examples where he's actually gone on record to say he's absolutely fine with being taxed more. There's a lot of misconceptions like this out there which doesn't help at all. Well last night would have been a good time for him to come out and say it, instead it was the banks and companies avoiding taxation.
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Post by followyoudown on Dec 12, 2014 12:52:56 GMT
He was also massively misinformed, the tax take on bankers bonuses via personal taxation is higher than the tax take if banks had higher profits without them. Pre written cue cards with his jokes and “facts” to get across and generally he looked like a rabbit caught in the headlights. The one thing not to come out of his mouth when talking about how to pay for things was to increase the top rate of tax on people like him and his mates, no he wanted someone else to pay for it. Are you taking into account all the money we've spent bailing banks out into that tax calculation regarding bankers bonuses? No and why would I, that is in theory an investment which will be paid back when the government sells its stakes. Happy to discuss how Labour messed up the bailout to begin with but we are where we are and for the public purse money paid out as bonuses contributes more tax than if the banks made higher profits whilst they continue to pay no dividends out. Incidentially Brand is very quick to harp on about how much the banks "stole" what about all the taxes they paid before the crash.
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Post by salopstick on Dec 12, 2014 13:19:43 GMT
Are you taking into account all the money we've spent bailing banks out into that tax calculation regarding bankers bonuses? No and why would I, that is in theory an investment which will be paid back when the government sells its stakes. Happy to discuss how Labour messed up the bailout to begin with but we are where we are and for the public purse money paid out as bonuses contributes more tax than if the banks made higher profits whilst they continue to pay no dividends out. Incidentially Brand is very quick to harp on about how much the banks "stole" what about all the taxes they paid before the crash. To be fair to brand he did mention he had a bit of money a couple of times
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Dec 12, 2014 13:36:03 GMT
If you're just joining us, I can tell you you've just missed the 20th question posed by edgepotter with all of them being left well alone. The two batsmen, mickmillslovechild and wizzardofdribble, have defended stoically, but not failed to trouble the scorecard. It remains none-for-none after seven overs, and with several years left to play it remains hard to see a way out of this stalemate. Back to you in the studio. i haven't left alone any of his questions myself because my personal opinion of the way society works is actually quite similar to Brand's however i do accept that my opinion (and Brand's....and Chomsky's and Benn's and edgepotter's) may well be wrong and i also understand why some people find it hard to take a "lecture" about the inequalities of society from someone who is worth millions. now, whilst i agree with edgepotter that his worth (due to his hard work) doesn't in any way dismiss his views or ideas, it is human nature that some will simply switch off to him thinking "What does he know about what life's really like for the common man"..it's just the way the world works and i accept that whereas edgepotter doesn't seem to. to be fair i think the simly issue is that edgepotter is a romantic and sees how the world could and perhaps should be...(nothing wrong with that whatsoever) whereas i'm a cynical, miserable old fucker who's lived a fair while and realise that no amount of rhetoric from any celenrity will actually really change the world, no matter how verbose that celebrity is...basically i'm a realist. i'd say there've been a few no balls and wides from the fielding side so far myself ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/0m0lbCuTEBzaRn6f8QaM.gif) Swing and a miss. The bowler was claiming there was an edge, but the umpire remains unmoved. 0-0 after 10 overs ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/0m0lbCuTEBzaRn6f8QaM.gif)
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Post by edgepotter on Dec 12, 2014 16:30:13 GMT
Brands latest 'Trews' is regarding the current plight of the fire brigade, fire stations closed, jobs cut, pension issues and the Government wanting to increase firefighters working age to 60. This is despite the governments own report which says that even at the age of 55 two thirds of those people aren't physically suitable to carry out such work. It's a bit ridiculous isn't it? Penny Mordaunt the Tory MP from QT last night called the strike 'totally unnecessary'.
I think Brand is right to criticise the fact that the firefighters campaign has been totally ignored by the mainstream media. He's given Matt Wrack, the general secretary of the Fire Brigade Union, the chance to talk about the current issues facing the Fire Service, and to explain the reasons they've been going on strike. I think this is a good example of why Brand is right to be getting involved in campaigning, its good that he's using his fame to give voices that otherwise wouldn't be heard the chance to speak up. It's for reasons like this that he should keep going.
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Post by kbillyh on Dec 12, 2014 17:09:35 GMT
I'd not seen any of his "Trews" thingys before but i've had a gander at a few and will certainly be watching more in future.
There is a desperate need for a differing voice to the mainstream media at the moment as their silence on so many issues stinks of nothing short of a conspiracy to keep the public un/misinformed.
Good on you Russel Brand.
Perhaps you should start a thread on every Trews he does Edge, then perhaps the debate can eventually be more about the issues he raises rather than the personality so many on here seem to instantly detest.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2014 17:12:55 GMT
Brands latest 'Trews' is regarding the current plight of the fire brigade, fire stations closed, jobs cut, pension issues and the Government wanting to increase firefighters working age to 60. This is despite the governments own report which says that even at the age of 55 two thirds of those people aren't physically suitable to carry out such work. It's a bit ridiculous isn't it? Penny Mordaunt the Tory MP from QT last night called the strike 'totally unnecessary'. I think Brand is right to criticise the fact that the firefighters campaign has been totally ignored by the mainstream media. He's given Matt Wrack, the general secretary of the Fire Brigade Union, the chance to talk about the current issues facing the Fire Service, and to explain the reasons they've been going on strike. I think this is a good example of why Brand is right to be getting involved in campaigning, its good that he's using his fame to give voices that otherwise wouldn't be heard the chance to speak up. It's for reasons like this that he should keep going. agreed mate! my brother is a firefighter and it's disgusting what the govt. are doing at the moment and you're right about the media..the only coverage they seem to have had was a couple of months ago when they went on strike and it unfortunately co-incided with the teachers strike so everyone presumes it was all for the same thing i.e. simply about more time off/better pay etc. when in reality it's actually about them not getting completely screwed over by the govt. who are going back on contractual promises made to people who have worked for years under the impression that those promises would be kept. they've (the govt.) been an absolute disgrace to the fire service
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Post by edgepotter on Dec 12, 2014 17:26:47 GMT
Brands latest 'Trews' is regarding the current plight of the fire brigade, fire stations closed, jobs cut, pension issues and the Government wanting to increase firefighters working age to 60. This is despite the governments own report which says that even at the age of 55 two thirds of those people aren't physically suitable to carry out such work. It's a bit ridiculous isn't it? Penny Mordaunt the Tory MP from QT last night called the strike 'totally unnecessary'. I think Brand is right to criticise the fact that the firefighters campaign has been totally ignored by the mainstream media. He's given Matt Wrack, the general secretary of the Fire Brigade Union, the chance to talk about the current issues facing the Fire Service, and to explain the reasons they've been going on strike. I think this is a good example of why Brand is right to be getting involved in campaigning, its good that he's using his fame to give voices that otherwise wouldn't be heard the chance to speak up. It's for reasons like this that he should keep going. agreed mate! my brother is a firefighter and it's disgusting what the govt. are doing at the moment and you're right about the media..the only coverage they seem to have had was a couple of months ago when they went on strike and it unfortunately co-incided with the teachers strike so everyone presumes it was all for the same thing i.e. simply about more time off/better pay etc. when in reality it's actually about them not getting completely screwed over by the govt. who are going back on contractual promises made to people who have worked for years under the impression that those promises would be kept. they've (the govt.) been an absolute disgrace to the fire service Its frustrating Mick, the ones that caused the problems, the bankers are giving themselves £80 billion in bonuses and the MP's are giving themselves an 11% payrise whereas the services like the firefighters and the NHS etc are getting shafted. It's grossly unfair.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Dec 12, 2014 17:31:25 GMT
I thought on balance he came across well and gave a good account of himself. Farage on the other hand...well I think the wheels are coming off. "pound shop Enoch Powell".. excellent. do you honestlly believe that after answering a question about pettiness in politics then spending the rest of the show shouting over people, ignoring every other question to shout insults and soundbites, getting owned bey a member of the audience is a good account. this man speaks in front of crowds for a living, he knows the score. it was a car crash of an appearance he got found out lastnight. there is more to the this politics malarky than going on newsnight saying the system needs to change. i genuinely await his next appearance because by then he may have actually learned something and you will see an altogether better performance Trouble is you still have belief in the way politics is at present. I don't, Russell Brand certainly doesn't and the young people in the audience didn't either on the whole. In that respect he did a good job yes. It's easy by the way to shout "why don't you stand" repeatedly, even when you've been given a perfectly acceptable reply.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Dec 12, 2014 17:38:00 GMT
I'd not seen any of his "Trews" thingys before but i've had a gander at a few and will certainly be watching more in future. There is a desperate need for a differing voice to the mainstream media at the moment as their silence on so many issues stinks of nothing short of a conspiracy to keep the public un/misinformed. Good on you Russel Brand. Perhaps you should start a thread on every Trews he does Edge, then perhaps the debate can eventually be more about the issues he raises rather than the personality so many on here seem to instantly detest. Excellently put... as usual, there are certain posters on here who can not see past the image, preferring to pour scorn and bile on him. Brand's main message is that we are not really governed by our elected representatives anymore (were we ever?) and good on him for using his profile to raise it.
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Post by salopstick on Dec 12, 2014 17:55:36 GMT
I'd not seen any of his "Trews" thingys before but i've had a gander at a few and will certainly be watching more in future. There is a desperate need for a differing voice to the mainstream media at the moment as their silence on so many issues stinks of nothing short of a conspiracy to keep the public un/misinformed. Good on you Russel Brand. Perhaps you should start a thread on every Trews he does Edge, then perhaps the debate can eventually be more about the issues he raises rather than the personality so many on here seem to instantly detest. Excellently put... as usual, there are certain posters on here who can not see past the image, preferring to pour scorn and bile on him. Brand's main message is that we are not really governed by our elected representatives anymore (were we ever?) and good on him for using his profile to raise it. It's not just the image though, bar a few words he has done realitevely nothing apart from pour scorn on the system. All cliche too I get what you say but unless you've got an Army and are going to take the country by force you ain't going to change anything That's the brutal reality. Hell will freeze over before you can agree with me and I don't care but even the Russell brand fan club on here at to concede he messed up last night. Change can happen from within. Instead of a media appearance between shows, films and parties, flitting appearances he could use his celebrity to get actively involved. The majority will forget about brands political appearance until the next one. So anything he says loses impact. Look at Caroline Lucas as an example. It took a green MP to actually get in to get green issues heard. Actions speak louder than words and he's all words He doesn't help his cause by leaving protests eat to go to celebrity bashes.
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Post by edgepotter on Dec 12, 2014 18:08:23 GMT
Excellently put... as usual, there are certain posters on here who can not see past the image, preferring to pour scorn and bile on him. Brand's main message is that we are not really governed by our elected representatives anymore (were we ever?) and good on him for using his profile to raise it. It's not just the image though, bar a few words he has done realitevely nothing apart from pour scorn on the system. All cliche too I get what you say but unless you've got an Army and are going to take the country by force you ain't going to change anything That's the brutal reality. Hell will freeze over before you can agree with me and I don't care but even the Russell brand fan club on here at to concede he messed up last night. Change can happen from within. Instead of a media appearance between shows, films and parties, flitting appearances he could use his celebrity to get actively involved. The majority will forget about brands political appearance until the next one. So anything he says loses impact. Look at Caroline Lucas as an example. It took a green MP to actually get in to get green issues heard. Actions speak louder than words and he's all words He doesn't help his cause by leaving protests eat to go to celebrity bashes. I think you expect too much from him at the moment Salop, he may well run for Parliament in the future who knows, but for now in using his status to give people like the Fire Brigades Union a chance to speak is certainly a step in the right direction and its better than doing nothing. Also saying he left a protest to go a 'celebrity bash' is also a big misrepresentation unless you count the theater as a celebrity bash which I don't. And its something people are continually doing. If you're going to make a point of criticising him at least make it a correct one.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Dec 12, 2014 18:17:07 GMT
Excellently put... as usual, there are certain posters on here who can not see past the image, preferring to pour scorn and bile on him. Brand's main message is that we are not really governed by our elected representatives anymore (were we ever?) and good on him for using his profile to raise it. It's not just the image though, bar a few words he has done realitevely nothing apart from pour scorn on the system. All cliche too I get what you say but unless you've got an Army and are going to take the country by force you ain't going to change anything That's the brutal reality. Hell will freeze over before you can agree with me and I don't care but even the Russell brand fan club on here at to concede he messed up last night. Change can happen from within. Instead of a media appearance between shows, films and parties, flitting appearances he could use his celebrity to get actively involved. The majority will forget about brands political appearance until the next one. So anything he says loses impact. Look at Caroline Lucas as an example. It took a green MP to actually get in to get green issues heard. Actions speak louder than words and he's all words He doesn't help his cause by leaving protests eat to go to celebrity bashes. It's ok Al, I just have to agree to differ, I think you're getting personal with this that's all.
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Post by edgepotter on Dec 12, 2014 19:12:10 GMT
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Dec 12, 2014 19:22:14 GMT
What on Earth makes Brand think he's got the right to highlight the issues of the Fire Service when he's never rescued anyone from a burning building, his hair is such a fire risk, and he could easily knock over a tea light with his flailing arms? ![(slaphead)](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/x7GhxArXJzjvmIlugu2X.gif)
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Post by edgepotter on Dec 12, 2014 19:43:48 GMT
What on Earth makes Brand think he's got the right to highlight the issues of the Fire Service when he's never rescued anyone from a burning building, his hair is such a fire risk, and he could easily knock over a tea light with his flailing arms? ![(slaphead)](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/x7GhxArXJzjvmIlugu2X.gif) Great point well made
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2014 21:16:38 GMT
I think the man lives for attention, simple as that. He loves the spotlight whether he fancies himself as a comedian, actor, pundit or politician...
Nothing more to it then that, he uses a lot of colourful words to tell us the obvious that every man, woman and child wants to hear. Alot of people enjoy hearing his message because they feel it validates their feelings and views and think he is fighting for the little guy. In actual fact I don't think he is that knowledgeable and I don't think he offers anything to solve these problems he seems so bothered about.
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Post by edgepotter on Dec 12, 2014 21:42:49 GMT
I think the man lives for attention, simple as that. He loves the spotlight whether he fancies himself as a comedian, actor, pundit or politician... Nothing more to it then that, he uses a lot of colourful words to tell us the obvious that every man, woman and child wants to hear. Alot of people enjoy hearing his message because they feel it validates their feelings and views and think he is fighting for the little guy. In actual fact I don't think he is that knowledgeable and I don't think he offers anything to solve these problems he seems so bothered about. Some people expect way too much of him, he's not the new messiah, he's not going to lead a revolution that transforms our society into a paradise. He hasn't got the answers to solve these 'problems he's so bothered about'. No-one has got these answers at the moment not even career politicians. He doesn't need to. I'm absolutely fine with him using his fame to highlight issues/problems that are relevant in our society, like the firefighters union, like the New Era estate etc. The more he draws attention to these things (a lot of people follow him) the more people know and the more pressure there is on the government, corporations and media to change things. He doesn't have to change the world, he only needs to make a contribution in a positive way like everyone else should. And for me he's doing it.
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Post by RichieBarkerOut! on Dec 12, 2014 21:43:27 GMT
I'm taking your use of the word, "plant", that you believe the BBC wanted to discredit Brand. Maybe, maybe not, as the programme has a history of this type of accusation, and it's been made by all sides of the political spectrum. Local activists are actually invited onto the show sometimes in an effort to "balance" the audience. Even if he was a plant, as you have already said, Brand should have seen the question coming.
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Post by edgepotter on Dec 12, 2014 21:48:36 GMT
I'm taking your use of the word, "plant", that you believe the BBC wanted to discredit Brand. Maybe, maybe not, as the programme has a history of this type of accusation, and it's been made by all sides of the political spectrum. Local activists are actually invited onto the show sometimes in an effort to "balance" the audience. Even if he was a plant, as you have already said, Brand should have seen the question coming. I don't think the BBC wanted to discredit Brand at all no, but maybe Farage and UKIP did certainly. I don't disagree with your point at all, he should have seen it coming and he should have had a better answer than the one he gave.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2014 21:50:36 GMT
Russell Brand is a great man, one of the few people with a public platform who is using that powerful privilege help those who need it the most. I think it's disgusting but not at all surprising that the media is waging a war to turn the very people Russell is trying to help against him. It is translucent admittedly, but if you have any sort of intelligence or initiative whatsoever it's as good as transparent. The media, the politicians, the corporations and the super-rich are all working in conjunction in the pursuit of money and power. Brand is supporting schemes being started by groups of oppressed people that attempt to force the aforementioned groups to release small pieces of their wealth and power. Simultaneously it's showing the rest of the country that affirmative-action and people-power can produce positive results. Reading the majority of comments in this thread, I find it overwhelmingly tragic and heart-breaking that the majority of people who Brand is seeking to help are far too retarded to realise they need it.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2014 22:02:31 GMT
I think the man lives for attention, simple as that. He loves the spotlight whether he fancies himself as a comedian, actor, pundit or politician... Nothing more to it then that, he uses a lot of colourful words to tell us the obvious that every man, woman and child wants to hear. Alot of people enjoy hearing his message because they feel it validates their feelings and views and think he is fighting for the little guy. In actual fact I don't think he is that knowledgeable and I don't think he offers anything to solve these problems he seems so bothered about. Some people expect way too much of him, he's not the new messiah, he's not going to lead a revolution that transforms our society into a paradise. He hasn't got the answers to solve these 'problems he's so bothered about'. He doesn't need to. I'm absolutely fine with him using his fame to highlight issues/problems that are relevant in our society, like the firefighters union, like the New Era estate etc. The more he draws attention to these things (a lot of people follow him) the more people know and the more pressure there is on the government, corporations and media to change things. He doesn't have to change the world, he only needs to make a contribution in a positive way like everyone else should. And for me he's doing it. If anything having that tool being the public face of a movement devalues the movement itself especially as he spends 80% of his time making a tit of himself. My issue is he brings up a lot of the things people already know, you tell me what has changed... Because he's been prattling on for fucking months now and has anything come of it? No. The man simply peaked at shagging Katie Perry if you ask me.
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Post by edgepotter on Dec 12, 2014 22:10:08 GMT
Some people expect way too much of him, he's not the new messiah, he's not going to lead a revolution that transforms our society into a paradise. He hasn't got the answers to solve these 'problems he's so bothered about'. He doesn't need to. I'm absolutely fine with him using his fame to highlight issues/problems that are relevant in our society, like the firefighters union, like the New Era estate etc. The more he draws attention to these things (a lot of people follow him) the more people know and the more pressure there is on the government, corporations and media to change things. He doesn't have to change the world, he only needs to make a contribution in a positive way like everyone else should. And for me he's doing it. If anything having that tool being the public face of a movement devalues the movement itself especially as he spends 80% of his time making a tit of himself. My issue is he brings up a lot of the things people already know, you tell me what has changed... Because he's been prattling on for fucking months now and has anything come of it? No. The man simply peaked at shagging Katie Perry if you ask me. You might know the issues he brings up, a lot of other people might know as well, but not everyone does and that's kind of the whole point. I think its safe to say that at the very least he's getting more people to discuss these issues which is an important start. Out of interest did you know about the New Era estate issue, and the problems the Firefighters union are facing before Brand publicised them? Regarding your point about change - it takes time
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