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Post by kevkj on Nov 24, 2014 7:58:10 GMT
These defenders make way too many mistakes both individually and collectively.
I was told that the higher you go as a defender apart from fitness,that the two most important things are concentration and lack of mistakes.
Our defenders, Shawcross apart are not premiership defenders.
The number of mistakes made are horrendous .
They may or not be decent footballers but they are NOT premiership defenders.
Bardsley.Cameron,Muniesta,Wilson ,Pieters all fall into this category in my view.
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Post by apb1 on Nov 24, 2014 8:05:07 GMT
In that case half (at least) of the Premier League defenders don't cut it either. Most make regular mistakes, which is why all games don't finish 0-0. In my opinion you're being a bit harsh. It's not wrong to highlight mistakes and for the coaching staff and players to work on eradicating them, but to suggest they are only fit to play in a lower league is way over the top when some of them have played hundreds of games at this level.
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Post by kevkj on Nov 24, 2014 8:08:01 GMT
Well if you honestly think they are good enough then we arent going to improve.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2014 8:15:42 GMT
These defenders make way too many mistakes both individually and collectively. I was told that the higher you go as a defender apart from fitness,that the two most important things are concentration and lack of mistakes. Our defenders, Shawcross apart are not premiership defenders. The number of mistakes made are horrendous . They may or not be decent footballers but they are NOT premiership defenders. Bardsley.Cameron,Muniesta,Wilson ,Pieters all fall into this category in my view. I think that's harsh. We've given 5 or 6 really bad goals away from individual errors this season but overall we still haven't conceded that many goals. A fully fit back four of Bardsley-Shawcross-Wilson-Pieters is decent (I'm keeping Huth out of the equation), the Man City game proved we can defend against the best by concentrating for 90 minutes, I don't know if it's a mental issue against the so-called lesser teams with players not being completely focused, but it's something that needs working on urgently. Saturday was poor, and in hindsight a back four of Cameron-Shawcross-Muniesa-Bardsley would probably have been more solid as Cameron's positional sense was awful, and Muniesa looks to be a far better centre half than left back, but we're better than some of the schoolboy errors we've been making (Begovic included) and need to start proving it. The next two games will be a real test for the defence, if they can get through them unscathed that will give them the confidence to push on hopefully....
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Post by kevkj on Nov 24, 2014 8:19:13 GMT
I wouldnt trust Wilson to concentrate on boiling a egg.You must surely be watching a different defence than me.
God Higgy and Cort were superior to this lot.
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Post by sufolkstokie on Nov 24, 2014 8:22:56 GMT
Well when Shawcross talks about players that are not switched on in training then
a) we have big problems b) they must think they are better than they are or could not care less c) Hughes and team need to get their act together
Clearly a big issue
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2014 8:23:04 GMT
I wouldnt trust Wilson to concentrate on boiling a egg.You must surely be watching a different defence than me. God Higgy and Cort were superior to this lot. You didn't go to Man City then? He was superb. He wouldn't be my first choice either, but short of the transfer window being brought forward 6 weeks and us drafting in a top class centre half we've got to work with what we've got for the moment. Leon Cort for his size was as weak as piss by the way and would have been humiliated in the Premier League, good for a goal in the other box though I'll give you that....
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Post by Danstoke82 on Nov 24, 2014 8:28:39 GMT
I still believe we are one solid centre back away from a decent back four. Bardsley, Shawcross, AN Other and Pieters can be effective.
If IF we could get bring in a commanding centre back to take some of the load of Ryan in January then we will be fine. We miss the authority of Huth or an Abdy Faye at present and its unlikely we will ever see Huth in that vein again.
As regards to what defender that would be Im not sure but looking back, tin hat on, I really wish we would of gone for Caulker in the summer.
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Post by kevkj on Nov 24, 2014 8:33:11 GMT
Prestwich for gods sake these are professional footballers of course they will have good games.its the inconsistency and constant mistakes. Its no good playing well for 89 minutes as a defender then dropping one. You obviously think this accepatable week in week out ,i dont Were so close to being half decent but its like a ball on our leg.The defence is awful.
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Post by apb1 on Nov 24, 2014 8:33:36 GMT
Well if you honestly think they are good enough then we arent going to improve. They make mistakes, sure, but you can look at half the defenders in the Premier League and say the same. And if you think about it, in order for there to be an average Premier League defender, probably half of them will be below average! I wouldn't have Liverpool or Spurs's defenders over ours and those teams are both playing in Europe. So are they good enough for the Premier League? Yes. Could we get better? Maybe. Was the fable Huth and Shawcross partnership without flaw? No. Were they more effectively protected by a defensive cage in midfield? Probably. Mistakes are inevitable, and it's correct to work on them, I just don't think we should get rid of five players.
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Post by kevkj on Nov 24, 2014 8:34:52 GMT
I thought Bardsley was decent but after watching him against Villa,Leicester,Burnley .The goals are so similar and his fault in some way.
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Post by metalhead on Nov 24, 2014 8:37:43 GMT
These defenders make way too many mistakes both individually and collectively. I was told that the higher you go as a defender apart from fitness,that the two most important things are concentration and lack of mistakes. Our defenders, Shawcross apart are not premiership defenders. The number of mistakes made are horrendous . They may or not be decent footballers but they are NOT premiership defenders. Bardsley.Cameron,Muniesta,Wilson ,Pieters all fall into this category in my view. I think that's harsh. We've given 5 or 6 really bad goals away from individual errors this season but overall we still haven't conceded that many goals. A fully fit back four of Bardsley-Shawcross-Wilson-Pieters is decent (I'm keeping Huth out of the equation), the Man City game proved we can defend against the best by concentrating for 90 minutes, I don't know if it's a mental issue against the so-called lesser teams with players not being completely focused, but it's something that needs working on urgently. Saturday was poor, and in hindsight a back four of Cameron-Shawcross-Muniesa-Bardsley would probably have been more solid as Cameron's positional sense was awful, and Muniesa looks to be a far better centre half than left back, but we're better than some of the schoolboy errors we've been making (Begovic included) and need to start proving it. The next two games will be a real test for the defence, if they can get through them unscathed that will give them the confidence to push on hopefully.... Not sure how Cameron was to blame. Fairly well established who's fault it was. Don't let that stop your agenda though.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2014 8:41:19 GMT
I think that's harsh. We've given 5 or 6 really bad goals away from individual errors this season but overall we still haven't conceded that many goals. A fully fit back four of Bardsley-Shawcross-Wilson-Pieters is decent (I'm keeping Huth out of the equation), the Man City game proved we can defend against the best by concentrating for 90 minutes, I don't know if it's a mental issue against the so-called lesser teams with players not being completely focused, but it's something that needs working on urgently. Saturday was poor, and in hindsight a back four of Cameron-Shawcross-Muniesa-Bardsley would probably have been more solid as Cameron's positional sense was awful, and Muniesa looks to be a far better centre half than left back, but we're better than some of the schoolboy errors we've been making (Begovic included) and need to start proving it. The next two games will be a real test for the defence, if they can get through them unscathed that will give them the confidence to push on hopefully.... Not sure how Cameron was to blame. Fairly well established who's fault it was. Don't let that stop your agenda though. Stop with the agenda bollocks I like Geoff, I can also tell when a player is clearly not a natural at centre half, and Cameron is not a centre half in a million years.....
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Post by metalhead on Nov 24, 2014 8:42:41 GMT
Not sure how Cameron was to blame. Fairly well established who's fault it was. Don't let that stop your agenda though. Stop with the agenda bollocks I like Geoff, I can also tell when a player is clearly not a natural at centre half, and Cameron is not a centre half in a million years..... but blaming him for Saturday is what I refer to as bullshit
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Post by kevkj on Nov 24, 2014 8:42:45 GMT
Cameron is weak as piss at centre half. Hes adequate at best at full back. Im sorry that it seems im slamming our players,but how you can stick up for these insepid deensive performances i dont know. Shit defending against teams on the break,shit deending from set pieces all season.
Potternation
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Post by kevkj on Nov 24, 2014 8:44:16 GMT
Metalhead,where did i blame him for saturday?
although you could argure about positioning for both goals but not the main culprit.
Still weak as piss and lack of positional sense at centre half ala Wilson.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2014 8:48:29 GMT
Prestwich for gods sake these are professional footballers of course they will have good games.its the inconsistency and constant mistakes. Its no good playing well for 89 minutes as a defender then dropping one. You obviously think this accepatable week in week out ,i dont Were so close to being half decent but its like a ball on our leg.The defence is awful. Fine margins. Wilson has made two or three errors this season all of which have been punished by us conceding. Have you played centre half before? It's difficult to play for 98 minutes and keep 100% focused for every second of the game, you can be as solid as a rock, switch off for a split second and boom you've conceded a goal. Whether we find it acceptable or not is irrelevant, we're stuck with what we've got until at least January so the players just need to work and work on their defensive skills but more importantly their concentration. It's about not switching off when you're team have the ball, that's where we're making mistakes. As to your last point we've conceded 15 goals from 12 games so I would dispute that our defence is awful. In fact it's the 5th (joint) best in the Premier League if you want to look at the stats....
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2014 8:50:27 GMT
Stop with the agenda bollocks I like Geoff, I can also tell when a player is clearly not a natural at centre half, and Cameron is not a centre half in a million years..... but blaming him for Saturday is what I refer to as bullshit Who's blaming him for anything, I said his positional sense was awful which it was. He's not a natural centre half, and he played like someone that's not a natural centre half.
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Post by RAF on Nov 24, 2014 8:51:27 GMT
We have been missing Huth there is no doubt about that , Ryan can't do it all himself in the middle. Hughes needs a kick in the bollocks for not getting another decent centre back in the summer. One thing I will say for a defensive unit, you need to be playing together week in week out to be that unit, knowing each others strengths and weaknesses. Being a professional footballer doesn't mean you don't need time to get used to how that unit plays. The training ground isn't enough. We've been unlucky with injuries imho, saying that we really need to take our chances in front of goal, our finishing is nothing short of fucking wank in any kind of regularity.
H
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Post by metalhead on Nov 24, 2014 9:07:20 GMT
but blaming him for Saturday is what I refer to as bullshit Who's blaming him for anything, I said his positional sense was awful which it was. He's not a natural centre half, and he played like someone that's not a natural centre half. I don't remember his positional sense being a problem. His passing was atrocious but his defending was ok on whole.
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Post by ChrisKamarasPerm on Nov 24, 2014 9:09:14 GMT
Defending seems a lost art all over the Premiership.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2014 9:09:59 GMT
Who's blaming him for anything, I said his positional sense was awful which it was. He's not a natural centre half, and he played like someone that's not a natural centre half. I don't remember his positional sense being a problem. His passing was atrocious but his defending was ok on whole. His position for the 2nd goal was very poor (and I'm not blaming him for the goal before you accuse me of having an agenda) as no one covered themselves in glory for either goal
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2014 9:11:25 GMT
We have been missing Huth there is no doubt about that , Ryan can't do it all himself in the middle. Hughes needs a kick in the bollocks for not getting another decent centre back in the summer. One thing I will say for a defensive unit, you need to be playing together week in week out to be that unit, knowing each others strengths and weaknesses. Being a professional footballer doesn't mean you don't need time to get used to how that unit plays. The training ground isn't enough. We've been unlucky with injuries imho, saying that we really need to take our chances in front of goal, our finishing is nothing short of fucking wank in any kind of regularity. H Didn't even need to spend big. Lescott on a Bosman would have been perfect for us....
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Post by metalhead on Nov 24, 2014 9:19:43 GMT
I don't remember his positional sense being a problem. His passing was atrocious but his defending was ok on whole. His position for the 2nd goal was very poor (and I'm not blaming him for the goal before you accuse me of having an agenda) as no one covered themselves in glory for either goal everyone fucked up on both goals, are the others not natural defenders either?
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Post by skelman on Nov 24, 2014 9:22:53 GMT
Defending seems a lost art all over the Premiership. Pulis said the same recently
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2014 9:23:24 GMT
I think it's a combination of the system and personnel. We always seem stretched at the back due to the way we go forward so we will always concede more the way we play, however some of the goals we have conceded this season have been a comedy of errors and everyone is culpable. We should have got Dawson from Spurs in The Summer to play alongside Ryan. I know it won't go down on here very well but for me as good as he is, Begovic should be dropped, he needs a boot up the arse, as in my opinion hes become too complacent.
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Post by Pugsley on Nov 24, 2014 9:31:31 GMT
These defenders make way too many mistakes both individually and collectively. I was told that the higher you go as a defender apart from fitness,that the two most important things are concentration and lack of mistakes. Our defenders, Shawcross apart are not premiership defenders. The number of mistakes made are horrendous . They may or not be decent footballers but they are NOT premiership defenders. Bardsley.Cameron,Muniesta,Wilson ,Pieters all fall into this category in my view.
Another one making shit up.
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Post by skelman on Nov 24, 2014 9:57:04 GMT
Who's blaming him for anything, I said his positional sense was awful which it was. He's not a natural centre half, and he played like someone that's not a natural centre half. I don't remember his positional sense being a problem. His passing was atrocious but his defending was ok on whole. Not a natural centre half, right footed, playing at left cenre half as the only available option Geoff's positional sense was reasonable v Burnley but has frequently been poor in the past. His positioning at corners is sometimes woeful as he often doesn't seem to know who to pick up or he gets left for dead. He gets caught wrongside too often at RB and is too easily turned. Ok going forward but then often fails to get back quickly enough to pick up his defensive responsibilities. Reminds me a bit of Pluto the dog at times - ie all over the fekin place. A weak link and a worry for me every time he plays in the back four
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2014 10:15:30 GMT
This was similar to LMH at QPR, built the forward line and attacking midfield and forgot about the defence. Hmmmm
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Post by Pugsley on Nov 24, 2014 10:16:46 GMT
This was similar to LMH at QPR, built the forward line and attacking midfield and forgot about the defence. Hmmmm
and another.
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