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DIOUF
Oct 30, 2014 12:46:36 GMT
Post by metalhead on Oct 30, 2014 12:46:36 GMT
Walters or Bojan there is no one else. Do you really see Walters or Bojan as better lone strikers than Diouf? I'd love to revert to a traditional 4-4-2 with Bojan just off Diouf. Drop one of the central mids, maybe N'Zonzi as I just don't feel he's cutting it right now.
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DIOUF
Oct 30, 2014 13:01:06 GMT
Post by huddy on Oct 30, 2014 13:01:06 GMT
He doesn't hold the ball up well enough when he's on his own.We tried it remember?Even last night he was better when Crouch came on.He's actually perfect in the wide role of a three cutting in.
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DIOUF
Oct 30, 2014 13:28:11 GMT
Post by Lakeland Potter on Oct 30, 2014 13:28:11 GMT
So John, this weekend, with Crouch out, just who would that other striker be? You could use Walters in the centre with Diouf or put Assaidi on the wing with Moses playing in the centre. We've seen Moses mainly as a left winger but at Wigan he could play across the front line including as support striker.
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DIOUF
Oct 30, 2014 14:12:45 GMT
Post by jezzascfc on Oct 30, 2014 14:12:45 GMT
I'd still play Diouf as the right attacker of a front 3, in the Odemwingie role, cutting in and supporting the front man as necessary. I'd play Walters in Crouch's place while he is suspended, with Moses on the left.
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DIOUF
Oct 30, 2014 14:19:31 GMT
via mobile
Post by wearepremierleague on Oct 30, 2014 14:19:31 GMT
Think I see something completely different to everyone else with Diouf. Every time he controls the ball I'm surprised, he looks like a sprinter who has put a football kit on. At the end last night when it dropped for him in the box, instead of volleying he tried to bring it down, completely missed the ball and forced himself to do an overhead kick. If he plays on the wing I would be surprised to see him assist a single goal all season. Up front he just doesn't hold it up well enough.
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DIOUF
Oct 30, 2014 14:19:57 GMT
Post by thestatusquo on Oct 30, 2014 14:19:57 GMT
I'd still play Diouf as the right attacker of a front 3, in the Odemwingie role, cutting in and supporting the front man as necessary. I'd play Walters in Crouch's place while he is suspended, with Moses on the left. On the few occasions I've seen him out there Jezza he doesn't look particularly comfortable in the way that a player like Moses does. He works hard and does track back but I think he's better in the middle where he's got the entire width of the pitch to use his pace. He doesn't seem as effective on the right.
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DIOUF
Oct 30, 2014 14:21:18 GMT
Post by jimmygscfc on Oct 30, 2014 14:21:18 GMT
With the personnel we have available though, I'd feel happier Diouf playing alongside either Walters or Bojan as opposed to on the wing. Moses on the left with a brief to roam and N'Zonzi, Sidwell and Adam in midfield, with Cameron going to right back. I'll be there to witness our glorious victory!
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DIOUF
Oct 30, 2014 15:14:05 GMT
via mobile
Post by davejohnno1 on Oct 30, 2014 15:14:05 GMT
Diouf is more than capable of playing up front on his own. He's quick and strong and whilst his touch may be inconsistent he offers more threat than Crouch will ever do.
He was excellent last night when plying a pretty lonely furrow with next to no service.
He should play up front or not at all because he sure as hell isn't a winger.
If that means we go 4-4-1-1 or 4-4-2, so be it. Stick Walters in behind him because that is the only position he can play effectively anyway.
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DIOUF
Oct 30, 2014 15:21:38 GMT
Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 30, 2014 15:21:38 GMT
Diouf is more than capable of playing up front on his own. He's quick and strong and whilst his touch may be inconsistent he offers more threat than Crouch will ever do. He was excellent last night when plying a pretty lonely furrow with next to no service. He should play up front or not at all because he sure as hell isn't a winger. If that means we go 4-4-1-1 or 4-4-2, so be it. Stick Walters in behind him because that is the only position he can play effectively anyway.
In that formation, who would be your midfield four Dave?
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Post by Jamo on the wing on Oct 30, 2014 15:51:43 GMT
I'd go with Moses, N'zonzi, Adam and Arnie/Ossie personally, Paul.
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Post by jimmygscfc on Oct 30, 2014 16:05:20 GMT
I'd go with Moses, N'zonzi, Adam and Arnie/Ossie personally, Paul. No chance. Just my opinion of course. Sidwell needs to play as the deeper midfielder even though it's not his natural position. Then N'Zonzi and Adam in front of him. Moses to be the wide man and Diouf and Walters or Bojan up top too. The Hammers are likely to outnumber and outfight us in midfield if we play only N'Zonzi and Adam. I reckon they'll go with Valencia and Nolan backed by Amalfitano, Downing, Noble and Kouyate. Cole is going to feature at some stage as he has done over the past few weeks. We need to match them in possession and use our pace given Crouch being out gives us that option moreso than it might have done.
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Post by Jamo on the wing on Oct 30, 2014 16:13:08 GMT
I'd go with Moses, N'zonzi, Adam and Arnie/Ossie personally, Paul. No chance. Just my opinion of course. Sidwell needs to play as the deeper midfielder even though it's not his natural position. Then N'Zonzi and Adam in front of him. Moses to be the wide man and Diouf and Walters or Bojan up top too. The Hammers are likely to outnumber and outfight us in midfield if we play only N'Zonzi and Adam. I reckon they'll go with Valencia and Nolan backed by Amalfitano, Downing, Noble and Kouyate. Cole is going to feature at some stage as he has done over the past few weeks. We need to match them in possession and use our pace given Crouch being out gives us that option moreso than it might have done. That's only if we go 442, Jimmy. I don't think we will as I think Hughes will revert to the middle three that started last weekend. In my opinion the positions up for grabs are the two wide areas (and possibly only one depending on the fitness of Moses). Edit: Momentarily forgot about Bards being suspended so Ireland will come in and Geoff move to full back.
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DIOUF
Oct 30, 2014 16:40:47 GMT
Post by jezzascfc on Oct 30, 2014 16:40:47 GMT
I still do not think Diouf holds the ball up well enough to play as a lone front man - he needs to play off a more traditional striker. I agree he is no winger, but neither is Odemwingie. Both will cut in and try to support/pick up knock-ons from a front man, and are prepared to track back and cover when we are not in possession. For now, Walters would start up top for me without Crouch. Arnie is blowing hot and cold too much, so Moses has to start if fit, whilst Bojan would be eaten alive by Big Sam's team. We need three midfielders in the centre of the park, so that has to be SNZ, Adam and Sidwell, if Geoff covers at right back. Ireland playing as well as Adam (the latter has to start) leaves us lightweight in midfield where we will need to win the battle.
Begovic
Cameron Shawcross Wilson Pieters
Sidwell N'Zonzi Adam
Diouf Walters Moses
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DIOUF
Oct 30, 2014 16:50:56 GMT
Post by march4 on Oct 30, 2014 16:50:56 GMT
Diouf was my MoM last night. In the first half, him and SJW were the only ones busting a gut to get us back into the game.
On Saturday, I think Jezza has the team right.
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DIOUF
Oct 30, 2014 17:27:42 GMT
Post by jimmygscfc on Oct 30, 2014 17:27:42 GMT
I still do not think Diouf holds the ball up well enough to play as a lone front man - he needs to play off a more traditional striker. I agree he is no winger, but neither is Odemwingie. Both will cut in and try to support/pick up knock-ons from a front man, and are prepared to track back and cover when we are not in possession. For now, Walters would start up top for me without Crouch. Arnie is blowing hot and cold too much, so Moses has to start if fit, whilst Bojan would be eaten alive by Big Sam's team. We need three midfielders in the centre of the park, so that has to be SNZ, Adam and Sidwell, if Geoff covers at right back. Ireland playing as well as Adam (the latter has to start) leaves us lightweight in midfield where we will need to win the battle. Begovic Cameron Shawcross Wilson Pieters Sidwell N'Zonzi Adam Diouf Walters Moses As ever, we're on the same page of a very ragged book
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Post by fca47 on Oct 30, 2014 18:07:04 GMT
I just don't get MH's reasoning, he should be starting up front in every away game. As Jezza says above, he isn't suited to the role of lone striker - he simply can't hold the ball up well enough. If we play him up front then we have to have a player in close support and that may not always be the way we need to set up in away games. At home, I'd be happy to see him up front with another striker supporting him. Don't want him to hold the ball up, people old enough will remember Sheron, didn't hold the ball up because he ran on to through balls. Only really a tactic for away games, but it worked for us against City as it did for Newcastle.
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DIOUF
Oct 30, 2014 18:59:35 GMT
Post by jezzascfc on Oct 30, 2014 18:59:35 GMT
As Jezza says above, he isn't suited to the role of lone striker - he simply can't hold the ball up well enough. If we play him up front then we have to have a player in close support and that may not always be the way we need to set up in away games. At home, I'd be happy to see him up front with another striker supporting him. Don't want him to hold the ball up, people old enough will remember Sheron, didn't hold the ball up because he ran on to through balls. Only really a tactic for away games, but it worked for us against City as it did for Newcastle. Against City we used Crouch up front with Diouf. He did not play the lone striker role. With Sheron we had Sturridge who dropped off and often collected the ball to run from deeper, and it was a 4-4-2, a formation which is effectively dead in today's game as you get overrun in midfield by other team's three central players. Few teams play two central strikers these days and most who use only one have a striker capable of holding the ball up to bring in wide or central runners/support players.
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DIOUF
Oct 30, 2014 19:01:20 GMT
Post by jezzascfc on Oct 30, 2014 19:01:20 GMT
I still do not think Diouf holds the ball up well enough to play as a lone front man - he needs to play off a more traditional striker. I agree he is no winger, but neither is Odemwingie. Both will cut in and try to support/pick up knock-ons from a front man, and are prepared to track back and cover when we are not in possession. For now, Walters would start up top for me without Crouch. Arnie is blowing hot and cold too much, so Moses has to start if fit, whilst Bojan would be eaten alive by Big Sam's team. We need three midfielders in the centre of the park, so that has to be SNZ, Adam and Sidwell, if Geoff covers at right back. Ireland playing as well as Adam (the latter has to start) leaves us lightweight in midfield where we will need to win the battle. Begovic Cameron Shawcross Wilson Pieters Sidwell N'Zonzi Adam Diouf Walters Moses As ever, we're on the same page of a very ragged book At least the book is ragged not our trousers- as I am not sure either one of us could be classed as a philanthropist!
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DIOUF
Oct 30, 2014 19:03:57 GMT
Post by huddy on Oct 30, 2014 19:03:57 GMT
Diouf is more than capable of playing up front on his own. He's quick and strong and whilst his touch may be inconsistent he offers more threat than Crouch will ever do. He was excellent last night when plying a pretty lonely furrow with next to no service. He should play up front or not at all because he sure as hell isn't a winger. If that means we go 4-4-1-1 or 4-4-2, so be it. Stick Walters in behind him because that is the only position he can play effectively anyway. Didn't offer much threat at the beginning of the season when he had the shirt did he?Which is why we replaced him with Crouch and started scoring goals.
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DIOUF
Oct 30, 2014 19:07:52 GMT
via mobile
Post by werrington on Oct 30, 2014 19:07:52 GMT
Diouf is more than capable of playing up front on his own. He's quick and strong and whilst his touch may be inconsistent he offers more threat than Crouch will ever do. He was excellent last night when plying a pretty lonely furrow with next to no service. He should play up front or not at all because he sure as hell isn't a winger. If that means we go 4-4-1-1 or 4-4-2, so be it. Stick Walters in behind him because that is the only position he can play effectively anyway. Didn't offer much threat at the beginning of the season when he had the shirt did he?Which is why we replaced him with Crouch and started scoring goals. You seem obsessed with Crouch ? 99% of your posts have his name in them
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DIOUF
Oct 30, 2014 19:10:41 GMT
Post by enuntio on Oct 30, 2014 19:10:41 GMT
4-4-2 all the way :-)
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DIOUF
Oct 30, 2014 19:11:53 GMT
Post by mywaydesolzan on Oct 30, 2014 19:11:53 GMT
Don't want him to hold the ball up, people old enough will remember Sheron, didn't hold the ball up because he ran on to through balls. Only really a tactic for away games, but it worked for us against City as it did for Newcastle. Against City we used Crouch up front with Diouf. He did not play the lone striker role. With Sheron we had Sturridge who dropped off and often collected the ball to run from deeper, and it was a 4-4-2, a formation which is effectively dead in today's game as you get overrun in midfield by other team's three central players. Few teams play two central strikers these days and most who use only one have a striker capable of holding the ball up to bring in wide or central runners/support players. That is the common consensus and I have no idea where that leaves Hughes' summer striker signings. I feel eventually he will be forced to buck the trend.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Oct 31, 2014 0:47:05 GMT
Diouf is more than capable of playing up front on his own. He's quick and strong and whilst his touch may be inconsistent he offers more threat than Crouch will ever do. He was excellent last night when plying a pretty lonely furrow with next to no service. He should play up front or not at all because he sure as hell isn't a winger. If that means we go 4-4-1-1 or 4-4-2, so be it. Stick Walters in behind him because that is the only position he can play effectively anyway. Didn't offer much threat at the beginning of the season when he had the shirt did he?Which is why we replaced him with Crouch and started scoring goals. So you gave him what? 2 games? He scored a wonder goal in his 3rd appearance for us, got another soon after and scored again last night in his second game back after injury. 3 goals in 7? Starts isn't too bad a start considering there is so much he can't do. Crouch doesn't play the lone forward role too well either so what you lose with one you gain with the other. Crouch has a great touch and some wonderful ability but he is weak as piss and slow as a snail. Diouf is lightening quick, strong as a bull but has the touch of Cameron Jerome at times. I'd rather we go back to basics for the time being. 4-4-1-1 with the following; Bego Cameron (only coz of Bardsleys suspension), Shawcross, Muniesa (if Huth is nowhere near contention), Pieters Arnie, N'zonzi, Sidwell, Moses Walters Diouf Toughest decision of all is the choice of Sidwell or Adam. Does Adam have the "legs" to partner N'zonzi in the 2?
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DIOUF
Oct 31, 2014 9:38:43 GMT
Post by jimmygscfc on Oct 31, 2014 9:38:43 GMT
In a midfield two against the Hammers, it would be far too risky to play Adam. I'd still go with the one winger myself.
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DIOUF
Oct 31, 2014 9:50:35 GMT
via mobile
Post by davejohnno1 on Oct 31, 2014 9:50:35 GMT
In a midfield two against the Hammers, it would be far too risky to play Adam. I'd still go with the one winger myself. Hence my selection of Sidwell instead. Formation wise, I expect us to match up to the way they have been playing but I haven't seen enough of them to know how they have been setting up. Such a shame Nolan and Carroll won't be playing as we would have an easier task if they were. EDIT - despite all of these discussions the single most important team selection tomorrow is the make-up of our back 4. I would take a 0-0 now. We've simply got to stop gifting goals.
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DIOUF
Oct 31, 2014 11:02:56 GMT
Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2014 11:02:56 GMT
I still do not think Diouf holds the ball up well enough to play as a lone front man - he needs to play off a more traditional striker. I agree he is no winger, but neither is Odemwingie. Both will cut in and try to support/pick up knock-ons from a front man, and are prepared to track back and cover when we are not in possession. For now, Walters would start up top for me without Crouch. Arnie is blowing hot and cold too much, so Moses has to start if fit, whilst Bojan would be eaten alive by Big Sam's team. We need three midfielders in the centre of the park, so that has to be SNZ, Adam and Sidwell, if Geoff covers at right back. Ireland playing as well as Adam (the latter has to start) leaves us lightweight in midfield where we will need to win the battle. Begovic Cameron Shawcross Wilson Pieters Sidwell N'Zonzi Adam Diouf Walters Moses I agree with this. We need a three in midfield, we are far too open and if we only have Nzonzi and Charlie in there we will get mullered. Sidwell has a goal in him as well and for me hasn't had a chance since he signed. I really don't see a viable alternative to this team to be honest.
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DIOUF
Oct 31, 2014 11:49:57 GMT
Post by Matthews dad on Oct 31, 2014 11:49:57 GMT
And to think we were ready to spunk £15mill on him and Assaidi
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DIOUF
Oct 31, 2014 12:04:17 GMT
Post by nott1 on Oct 31, 2014 12:04:17 GMT
Think I see something completely different to everyone else with Diouf. Every time he controls the ball I'm surprised, he looks like a sprinter who has put a football kit on. At the end last night when it dropped for him in the box, instead of volleying he tried to bring it down, completely missed the ball and forced himself to do an overhead kick. If he plays on the wing I would be surprised to see him assist a single goal all season. Up front he just doesn't hold it up well enough. His ball control is often quite poor, I've noticed it too.
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DIOUF
Oct 31, 2014 12:44:49 GMT
Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2014 12:44:49 GMT
His strength is running the chanels not a "classic" CF, his hold up play is not good enough to play that roll. He needs somebody to play off and a midfield to play the balls through to his to run onto. Give his this service and he will score I have no doubt.
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DIOUF
Oct 31, 2014 12:48:42 GMT
Post by lordb on Oct 31, 2014 12:48:42 GMT
Walters or Bojan there is no one else. Do you really see Walters or Bojan as better lone strikers than Diouf? we're at cross purposes here to answer your question: 100% don't see either as better lone striker option. I meant only Bojan & Walters left (for tomorrow) to partner Diouf in a 442 or 4411
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