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Post by viewfromthecrowsnest on Aug 20, 2014 21:54:05 GMT
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Aug 20, 2014 21:55:49 GMT
I've just spat my cup of tea all over my keyboard PMSL PMSL. Me too. Are people really serious when they're proposing those 'elevating-jack-in-the-box' chairs? What if the disabled person doesn't like heights? It will be like a Punch and Judy show with blokes popping up and down shouting 'He's behind you!' OS. Was it the film "Gremlins" where the critters rewired the Stannah Stairlift so the old lady was catapulted through the roof when she pressed the UP button!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2014 0:42:32 GMT
Build the new corner, make sure it can accommodate more disabled supporters than we currently need, and obviously without the design flaws that we are currently experiencing. (aging population and whatnot) Put seats in the current disabled sections. Oh, and brownie points for whoever figures out what we'll call the new corner.....
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Post by rawli on Aug 21, 2014 5:26:04 GMT
That's a very good point, Paul - they probably wouldn't. Whether it would be feasible or appropriate to transfer in the way you suggest is something which would need to be discussed with wheelchair users themselves, and the answer of course might vary on an individual basis, but at least it's a creative idea to put into the mix. I would guess that these chairs don't come cheap. I bet they don't come cheap Malcolm but by simply multiplying the individual cost of one against the number that would be required, would for the very first time provide a tangible financial figure and the club could then decide whether they would be prepared to meet it in order to resolve the problem. At the end of the day, any solution isn't going to come cheap and if they'd got it right in the first place, then they wouldn't be having to address the situation now. Do they REALLY want to do something about it? Why not get the players to fund one each. They all earn crazy money and it would make them look good.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2014 5:44:52 GMT
So with all their brain power they came up with.......let's disable the none disabled?
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Aug 21, 2014 5:49:37 GMT
If the chairs are £4,800 each (see post above) then an order of 100 (the number of wheelchair spaces?) would cost £480,000 - i.e. less than half a £million. That's hardly going to break the bank - it is less than 3 months wages for Diouf I should think. Ordering 100 should get us a discount of, say, 10%. Rather than take it as a discount we could order an extra 10 - 12 chairs giving us 2 -3 spare chairs in each stand to allow for breakdowns and down time for maintenance etc. So for an outlay of £500k plus the on going cost of a maintenance contract - problem solved!
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Post by wembley4372 on Aug 21, 2014 6:11:27 GMT
I'd love to see how the disabled helper is going to get into their seat beside one of these. Perhaps it will come with a loft ladder and a seat belt in case they get excited and try to stand up!
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Aug 21, 2014 6:15:36 GMT
I'd love to see how the disabled helper is going to get into their seat beside one of these. Perhaps it will come with a loft ladder and a seat belt in case they get excited and try to stand up! Easy Peasy - Bar stools!
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Post by johnsmithsupper on Aug 21, 2014 7:20:51 GMT
There isn't really any suitable alternative until a corner is filled in including as a number one priority a purpose built large disabled section to accomodate all wheelchair bound supporters.
I'm afraid that's the bottom line, it's pointless asking people to remain seated, pointless relocating fans as no seats available for starters.
That's the unfortunate reality for the less able bodied fan at the moment. They should be campaigning for a new section of stadium as the current layout has never worked or for that matter been hospitable places to watch.
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Post by potbank on Aug 21, 2014 7:51:06 GMT
I have read all of this post which I found very interesting....The simplest solution, and it has been suggested many times before is thus: Cover the open corner and build a platform to arc around the space at a height of about 20 feet with a corridor into the side stand at ground level. Even if there are no other seats put in it would be a MASSIVE gesture from the club to help people, genuine Stoke City Season Ticket holders who are disabled. The money we splash out on players and the amount hitting their bank accounts every week doesn't add up compared to helping those supporters. And it would make the stadium a better place and we wouldn't be distracted from staring at the double decker when nothing is happening on the pitch.
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Post by thestatusquo on Aug 21, 2014 8:00:29 GMT
I've just spat my cup of tea all over my keyboard PMSL PMSL. Me too. Are people really serious when they're proposing those 'elevating-jack-in-the-box' chairs? What if the disabled person doesn't like heights? It will be like a Punch and Judy show with blokes popping up and down shouting 'He's behind you!' OS. How about this OS. He won't get up before you with this
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Post by prem4stoke on Aug 21, 2014 8:11:40 GMT
There are a few more here link
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Post by stokiejoeofalsager on Aug 21, 2014 9:32:47 GMT
There are a few more here link Is that middle bottom one even physically possible? We don't want disabled supporters flying out of wheelchairs and face planting into people in front. Is it like a 'segway' system?
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Post by wembley4372 on Aug 21, 2014 9:37:58 GMT
There are a few more here link Is that middle bottom one even physically possible? We don't want disabled supporters flying out of wheelchairs and face planting into people in front. Is it like a 'segway' system? I think you might be missing the point Joe.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Aug 21, 2014 9:39:36 GMT
There isn't really any suitable alternative until a corner is filled in including as a number one priority a purpose built large disabled section to accomodate all wheelchair bound supporters. I'm afraid that's the bottom line, it's pointless asking people to remain seated, pointless relocating fans as no seats available for starters. That's the unfortunate reality for the less able bodied fan at the moment. They should be campaigning for a new section of stadium as the current layout has never worked or for that matter been hospitable places to watch. Why are you dismissing the elevating power chairs as a suitable alternative jsu? Herding all the wheelchair users into one single section of the stadium is far from ideal and denies them any right to have a choice about what area of the ground to sit in. At a cost of £500k (approximately what we spent on Maurice Edu's salary last season!) the club would be providing a facility that would have zero impact to other supporters whilst still providing the same freedom of choice which disabled supporters enjoy currently. When you consider that any other alternative isn't going to come any cheaper, then it seem like a complete no brainier to me.
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Post by mcf on Aug 21, 2014 10:19:26 GMT
It simply can't be about the money can it.
This same group of utter fucking morons - yes, the club and the fucking supporter group(s) literally burned money when they stopped the platinum + scheme.
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Post by foster on Aug 21, 2014 10:23:45 GMT
Seems detrimental and contradictory to the clubs attempts to bring more atmosphere back to the games.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2014 10:25:44 GMT
If the chairs are £4,800 each (see post above) then an order of 100 (the number of wheelchair spaces?) would cost £480,000 - i.e. less than half a £million. That's hardly going to break the bank - it is less than 3 months wages for Diouf I should think. Ordering 100 should get us a discount of, say, 10%. Rather than take it as a discount we could order an extra 10 - 12 chairs giving us 2 -3 spare chairs in each stand to allow for breakdowns and down time for maintenance etc. So for an outlay of £500k plus the on going cost of a maintenance contract - problem solved! They cost more than £4800 once you have finally got the chair you require. My chair was priced from £4500 but by the time I had chose what kind of seat, what kind of controls, seat riser and tilt etc the bill was closer to £8500
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Post by foster on Aug 21, 2014 10:31:06 GMT
We've got a whole bloody stadium and yet it seems we are unable to accommodate a relatively small number of disabled fans.
Beyond a joke.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Aug 21, 2014 10:36:48 GMT
If the chairs are £4,800 each (see post above) then an order of 100 (the number of wheelchair spaces?) would cost £480,000 - i.e. less than half a £million. That's hardly going to break the bank - it is less than 3 months wages for Diouf I should think. Ordering 100 should get us a discount of, say, 10%. Rather than take it as a discount we could order an extra 10 - 12 chairs giving us 2 -3 spare chairs in each stand to allow for breakdowns and down time for maintenance etc. So for an outlay of £500k plus the on going cost of a maintenance contract - problem solved! They cost more than £4800 once you have finally got the chair you require. My chair was priced from £4500 but by the time I had chose what kind of seat, what kind of controls, seat riser and tilt etc the bill was closer to £8500 Cheers - but even at double the cost that would only bring the cost to £1 million for all the disabled spaces. A lot of money to us fans - but minimal to a club with an annual income of £90 million.
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Post by mcf on Aug 21, 2014 10:42:56 GMT
We've got a whole bloody stadium and yet it seems we are unable to accommodate a relatively small number of disabled fans. Beyond a joke. surely you can't be surprised?
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Post by foster on Aug 21, 2014 10:43:13 GMT
They cost more than £4800 once you have finally got the chair you require. My chair was priced from £4500 but by the time I had chose what kind of seat, what kind of controls, seat riser and tilt etc the bill was closer to £8500 Cheers - but even at double the cost that would only bring the cost to £1 million for all the disabled spaces. A lot of money to us fans - but minimal to a club with an annual income of £90 million. Far too expensive. At the estimated 3m to fill in a corner for 3000 extra seats, why would you spend a 3rd of that on space for 100? Just fill the corner in and create a comfortable section with a good view there for disabled fans added with more general seats (2500 for example), or give up some of the boxes as Mick mentions earlier in this thread.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Aug 21, 2014 10:58:43 GMT
Cheers - but even at double the cost that would only bring the cost to £1 million for all the disabled spaces. A lot of money to us fans - but minimal to a club with an annual income of £90 million. Far too expensive. At the estimated 3m to fill in a corner for 3000 extra seats, why would you spend a 3rd of that on space for 100? Just fill the corner in and create a comfortable section with a good view there for disabled fans added with more general seats (2500 for example), or give up some of the boxes as Mick mentions earlier in this thread. To be honest I don't think it is too expensive. In fact, if they had drafted the contract with the architects properly, they could have recovered the cost of sorting out the problem from the architect as, in terms of the disabled, the stadium is not fit for purpose. The idea of having disabled bays in every stand was a good one and still is a good one. I know a few families who have one person in a wheelchair plus one helper plus two or three other members of family who sit in the stands near the wheelchair. Why should the whole family have to relocate to the new corner just because the club and the architect cocked up the design brief of the bays? We all have our own preferences for where we sit in a stadium and there are plenty of people who don't like sitting in a corner and I don't see why the disabled and their families should have to - especially when the stadium was supposed to be designed to give wheelchair users and their families maximum choice of which stand they sit in!You are right £1 million is a lot of money - the club made an expensive mistake when they cocked up the design brief. But they CAN afford it if they have the will to bite the bullet. Of course, an alternative might be to use the money to see how many people in the two rows in front of the wheelchair bays they could persuade to move seats - perhaps when the new corner is built to give them first choice of vacant seats???????? That would raise an interesting philosophical point if those who were being asked to move said "but I don't want to move to a corner" - just the same response as we might get from the wheel chair users!
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Post by Stafford-Stokie on Aug 21, 2014 11:05:40 GMT
Far too expensive. At the estimated 3m to fill in a corner for 3000 extra seats, why would you spend a 3rd of that on space for 100? Just fill the corner in and create a comfortable section with a good view there for disabled fans added with more general seats (2500 for example), or give up some of the boxes as Mick mentions earlier in this thread. To be honest I don't think it is too expensive. In fact, if they had drafted the contract with the architects properly, they could have recovered the cost of sorting out the problem from the architect as, in terms of the disabled, the stadium is not fit for purpose. The idea of having disabled bays in every stand was a good one and still is a good one. I know a few families who have one person in a wheelchair plus one helper plus two or three other members of family who sit in the stands near the wheelchair. Why should the whole family have to relocate to the new corner just because the club and the architect cocked up the design brief of the bays? We all have our own preferences for where we sit in a stadium and there are plenty of people who don't like sitting in a corner and I don't see why the disabled and their families should have to - especially when the stadium was supposed to be designed to give wheelchair users and their families maximum choice of which stand they sit in!You are right £1 million is a lot of money - the club made an expensive mistake when they cocked up the design brief. But they CAN afford it if they have the will to bite the bullet. Of course, an alternative might be to use the money to see how many people in the two rows in front of the wheelchair bays they could persuade to move seats - perhaps when the new corner is built to give them first choice of vacant seats???????? That would raise an interesting philosophical point if those who were being asked to move said "but I don't want to move to a corner" - just the same response as we might get from the wheel chair users! You could turn it around and say why should the people directly in front of the bays have to be relocated? I have seen you use the word discrimination on this subject. Why should the people on front of the bays be discriminated against to satisfy a small number of fans? Just playing devils advocate of course but there really is no simple solution. If I had been sat there for years then I wouldn't be happy about moving. Like it or not if the disabled fans want a clear view all game they should be sat at the front because you will never stop people standing up and sitting down as the action ebs and flows. Not ideal but a solution that keeps the majority happy.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Aug 21, 2014 11:11:34 GMT
To be honest I don't think it is too expensive. In fact, if they had drafted the contract with the architects properly, they could have recovered the cost of sorting out the problem from the architect as, in terms of the disabled, the stadium is not fit for purpose. The idea of having disabled bays in every stand was a good one and still is a good one. I know a few families who have one person in a wheelchair plus one helper plus two or three other members of family who sit in the stands near the wheelchair. Why should the whole family have to relocate to the new corner just because the club and the architect cocked up the design brief of the bays? We all have our own preferences for where we sit in a stadium and there are plenty of people who don't like sitting in a corner and I don't see why the disabled and their families should have to - especially when the stadium was supposed to be designed to give wheelchair users and their families maximum choice of which stand they sit in!You are right £1 million is a lot of money - the club made an expensive mistake when they cocked up the design brief. But they CAN afford it if they have the will to bite the bullet. Of course, an alternative might be to use the money to see how many people in the two rows in front of the wheelchair bays they could persuade to move seats - perhaps when the new corner is built to give them first choice of vacant seats???????? That would raise an interesting philosophical point if those who were being asked to move said "but I don't want to move to a corner" - just the same response as we might get from the wheel chair users! You could turn it around and say why should the people directly in front of the bays have to be relocated? I have seen you use the word discrimination on this subject. Why should the people on front of the bays be discriminated against to satisfy a small number of fans? Just playing devils advocate of course but there really is no simple solution. If I had been sat there for years then I wouldn't be happy about moving. Like it or not if the disabled fans want a clear view all game they should be sat at the front because you will never stop people standing up and sitting down as the action ebs and flows. Not ideal but a solution that keeps the majority happy. I see that your "irony bypass" is still working well Stafford! I don't see why the elevating chair idea can't at least be trialled. And, if it costs £1 million to implement it for every disabled space - so be it. Mistakes often cost a lot to rectify - that's why it is worth avoiding making them in the first place!
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Post by Stafford-Stokie on Aug 21, 2014 11:14:55 GMT
You could turn it around and say why should the people directly in front of the bays have to be relocated? I have seen you use the word discrimination on this subject. Why should the people on front of the bays be discriminated against to satisfy a small number of fans? Just playing devils advocate of course but there really is no simple solution. If I had been sat there for years then I wouldn't be happy about moving. Like it or not if the disabled fans want a clear view all game they should be sat at the front because you will never stop people standing up and sitting down as the action ebs and flows. Not ideal but a solution that keeps the majority happy. I see that your "irony bypass" is still working well Stafford! I don't see why the elevating chair idea can't at least be trialled. And, if it costs £1 million to implement it for every disables space - so be it. Mistakes often cost a lot to rectify - that's why it is worth avoiding making them in the first place! Sorry mate, it was just a general reply to the posts on the subject.
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Post by Stafford-Stokie on Aug 21, 2014 11:16:28 GMT
You could turn it around and say why should the people directly in front of the bays have to be relocated? I have seen you use the word discrimination on this subject. Why should the people on front of the bays be discriminated against to satisfy a small number of fans? Just playing devils advocate of course but there really is no simple solution. If I had been sat there for years then I wouldn't be happy about moving. Like it or not if the disabled fans want a clear view all game they should be sat at the front because you will never stop people standing up and sitting down as the action ebs and flows. Not ideal but a solution that keeps the majority happy. I see that your "irony bypass" is still working well Stafford! I don't see why the elevating chair idea can't at least be trialled. And, if it costs £1 million to implement it for every disabled space - so be it. Mistakes often cost a lot to rectify - that's why it is worth avoiding making them in the first place! You have the cost of the chairs and then the costs of the loss of advertising space. It shouldn't but I get the feeling this will be a reason not to do it.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2014 11:19:23 GMT
It'll never work, although I am sympathetic to the issue. I couldn't make myself sit down throughout a whole 90 minutes.
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Post by foster on Aug 21, 2014 11:22:31 GMT
You could turn it around and say why should the people directly in front of the bays have to be relocated? I have seen you use the word discrimination on this subject. Why should the people on front of the bays be discriminated against to satisfy a small number of fans? Just playing devils advocate of course but there really is no simple solution. If I had been sat there for years then I wouldn't be happy about moving. Like it or not if the disabled fans want a clear view all game they should be sat at the front because you will never stop people standing up and sitting down as the action ebs and flows. Not ideal but a solution that keeps the majority happy. I see that your "irony bypass" is still working well Stafford! I don't see why the elevating chair idea can't at least be trialled. And, if it costs £1 million to implement it for every disabled space - so be it. Mistakes often cost a lot to rectify - that's why it is worth avoiding making them in the first place! Something like this could work: 1) Low cost 2) Allows disabled fans to choose their seat preference 3) Cancels out stupid sticker idea
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Post by Paul Spencer on Aug 21, 2014 11:48:08 GMT
Far too expensive. At the estimated 3m to fill in a corner for 3000 extra seats, why would you spend a 3rd of that on space for 100? Just fill the corner in and create a comfortable section with a good view there for disabled fans added with more general seats (2500 for example), or give up some of the boxes as Mick mentions earlier in this thread. To be honest I don't think it is too expensive. In fact, if they had drafted the contract with the architects properly, they could have recovered the cost of sorting out the problem from the architect as, in terms of the disabled, the stadium is not fit for purpose. The idea of having disabled bays in every stand was a good one and still is a good one. I know a few families who have one person in a wheelchair plus one helper plus two or three other members of family who sit in the stands near the wheelchair. Why should the whole family have to relocate to the new corner just because the club and the architect cocked up the design brief of the bays? We all have our own preferences for where we sit in a stadium and there are plenty of people who don't like sitting in a corner and I don't see why the disabled and their families should have to - especially when the stadium was supposed to be designed to give wheelchair users and their families maximum choice of which stand they sit in!You are right £1 million is a lot of money - the club made an expensive mistake when they cocked up the design brief. But they CAN afford it if they have the will to bite the bullet. Of course, an alternative might be to use the money to see how many people in the two rows in front of the wheelchair bays they could persuade to move seats - perhaps when the new corner is built to give them first choice of vacant seats???????? That would raise an interesting philosophical point if those who were being asked to move said "but I don't want to move to a corner" - just the same response as we might get from the wheel chair users!
Excellent post John.
I don't think the chairs would get anywhere near the full personally customised price quoted above but even if they did, it wouldn't come to much more than what we paid Maurice Edu in wages for a single season!
These chairs (considering how little use they would relatively see) should last twenty years or more.
A total spend of between £500-800k is not a ridiculous sum at all to be required to spend in order to solve a problem that was squarely of their own making.
They could be at least trialling this idea within weeks I would have thought.
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