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Post by jezzascfc on Jul 22, 2015 13:13:25 GMT
If we have indeed bid, or at least suggested a bid of, about 15m for Yarmolenko, that money could almost buy both Lennon and Moses (8m each?), although of course wages for both would take us past 100k a week.
I'd be tempted to look to sign both and offload one of Walters and Wingy. As the latter has just signed up again, and there are murmurs of inability to agree a deal with SJW, I would, albeit reluctantly, consider letting him go if it created space for both Moses and Lennon. That would see us covered out wide.
If not, one of them and Adama Traore on loan may also give us the options we need.
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Post by Jamo on the wing on Jul 22, 2015 13:15:28 GMT
Out of all those I think I'd still go for Moses although Remy would be great too. If we did indeed end up with Moses we'd still be fucked on the right. I think Moses is a waaaay better winger than Lennon but I'd genuinely rather see us starting with Arnie on the left and Lennon on the right, than see Moses on the left and Arnie on the right. I'd agree with that, Paul although I still think Moses down the right would be OK and better the devil we know in terms of fitting in with the squad.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 22, 2015 13:18:14 GMT
If we did indeed end up with Moses we'd still be fucked on the right. I think Moses is a waaaay better winger than Lennon but I'd genuinely rather see us starting with Arnie on the left and Lennon on the right, than see Moses on the left and Arnie on the right. I'd agree with that, Paul although I still think Moses down the right would be OK and better the devil we know in terms of fitting in with the squad. Yeah good reply mate. I hadn't actually considered Moses playing on the right.
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Post by feynmann2 on Jul 22, 2015 13:19:24 GMT
Out of all those I think I'd still go for Moses although Remy would be great too. If we did indeed end up with Moses we'd still be fucked on the right. I think Moses is a waaaay better winger than Lennon but I'd genuinely rather see us starting with Arnie on the left and Lennon on the right, than see Moses on the left and Arnie on the right. We are far from 'fucked on the right' our right wing is far more productive than our left on past performance, certainly with regard to goals at any rate - this is a pretty big insult to Odemwingie and Walters - upgrade them sure but we won't be 'fucked' if we don't
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 22, 2015 13:20:08 GMT
If we have indeed bid, or at least suggested a bid of, about 15m for Yarmolenko, that money could almost buy both Lennon and Moses (8m each?), although of course wages for both would take us past 100k a week. I'd be tempted to look to sign both and offload one of Walters and Wingy. As the latter has just signed up again, and there are murmurs of inability to agree a deal with SJW, I would, albeit reluctantly, consider letting him go if it created space for both Moses and Lennon. That would see us covered out wide. If not, one of them and Adama Traore on loan may also give us the options we need. Very hard to argue with any of that Jezza.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 22, 2015 13:20:42 GMT
If we did indeed end up with Moses we'd still be fucked on the right. I think Moses is a waaaay better winger than Lennon but I'd genuinely rather see us starting with Arnie on the left and Lennon on the right, than see Moses on the left and Arnie on the right. We are far from 'fucked on the right' our right wing is far more productive than our left on past performance, certainly with regard to goals at any rate - this is a pretty big insult to Odemwingie and Walters - upgrade them sure but we won't be 'fucked' if we don't We'll agree to disagree chap.
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Post by foster on Jul 22, 2015 13:22:51 GMT
If we did indeed end up with Moses we'd still be fucked on the right. I think Moses is a waaaay better winger than Lennon but I'd genuinely rather see us starting with Arnie on the left and Lennon on the right, than see Moses on the left and Arnie on the right. We are far from 'fucked on the right' our right wing is far more productive than our left on past performance, certainly with regard to goals at any rate - this is a pretty big insult to Odemwingie and Walters - upgrade them sure but we won't be 'fucked' if we don't I disagree with that. We've offered nothing down the right. Zilch, Nada, Nichts, Rien du tous, Absolutely fuck all. We need an Arnie backup and RW upgrade if we want to progress. Sidders in place of Zonzi makes us weaker in the center too.
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Post by Onneravineet on Jul 22, 2015 13:23:15 GMT
Is it just me that thinks Townsend would be a HUGE coup for our club? I seriously doubt that he would come here but IF he did I would be delighted. Would be an amazing signing!
Anyway back to Yarmo. Has the potential to be HUGE for the club and I hope he does sign BUT Townsend is the lesser risk by some margin!
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Post by feynmann2 on Jul 22, 2015 13:24:41 GMT
We are far from 'fucked on the right' our right wing is far more productive than our left on past performance, certainly with regard to goals at any rate - this is a pretty big insult to Odemwingie and Walters - upgrade them sure but we won't be 'fucked' if we don't We'll agree to disagree chap. Not on this one Paul - we may disagree which is the priority for an upgrade but to say our right side is not fit for purpose is simply untrue
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Post by feynmann2 on Jul 22, 2015 13:26:04 GMT
We are far from 'fucked on the right' our right wing is far more productive than our left on past performance, certainly with regard to goals at any rate - this is a pretty big insult to Odemwingie and Walters - upgrade them sure but we won't be 'fucked' if we don't I disagree with that. We've offered nothing down the right. Zilch, Nada, Nichts, Rien du tous, Absolutely fuck all. We need an Arnie backup and RW upgrade if we want to progress. Sidders in place of Zonzi makes us weaker in the center too. 10 goals from Walters and a season changing spell from Odemwingie the previous year says you're wrong
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Post by Kjones9 on Jul 22, 2015 13:27:27 GMT
We are far from 'fucked on the right' our right wing is far more productive than our left on past performance, certainly with regard to goals at any rate - this is a pretty big insult to Odemwingie and Walters - upgrade them sure but we won't be 'fucked' if we don't I disagree with that. We've offered nothing down the right. Zilch, Nada, Nichts, Rien du tous, Absolutely fuck all. We need an Arnie backup and RW upgrade if we want to progress. Sidders in place of Zonzi makes us weaker in the center too. Apart from 10 goals and 4 assists?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2015 13:27:59 GMT
Is it just me that thinks Townsend would be a HUGE coup for our club? I seriously doubt that he would come here but IF he did I would be delighted. Would be an amazing signing! Anyway back to Yarmo. Has the potential to be HUGE for the club and I hope he does sign BUT Townsend is the lesser risk by some margin! Townsend definitely fits Hughes' bill
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 22, 2015 13:28:26 GMT
We'll agree to disagree chap. Not on this one Paul - we may disagree which is the priority for an upgrade but to say our right side is not fit for purpose is simply untrue Fine it's you're prerogative.
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Post by foster on Jul 22, 2015 13:29:43 GMT
Looking at this imo.
In: LW backup (potentially Moha if MH thinks he's okay jumping straight into the senior squad) RW upgrade CM upgrade (equal to Zonzi)
Out: SJW or Odem (likely SJW based on WBA wanting him and us having just given Odem a new contract) CM (one of Sidwell, Ireland, Adam, Whelan)
I don't see us buying an new CM tbh. I think it'll be two wingers (L and R)
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Post by foster on Jul 22, 2015 13:31:33 GMT
I disagree with that. We've offered nothing down the right. Zilch, Nada, Nichts, Rien du tous, Absolutely fuck all. We need an Arnie backup and RW upgrade if we want to progress. Sidders in place of Zonzi makes us weaker in the center too. Apart from 10 goals and 4 assists? What are the stats from the left wing? Arnie and Moses combined then?
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 22, 2015 13:35:03 GMT
I disagree with that. We've offered nothing down the right. Zilch, Nada, Nichts, Rien du tous, Absolutely fuck all. We need an Arnie backup and RW upgrade if we want to progress. Sidders in place of Zonzi makes us weaker in the center too. Apart from 10 goals and 4 assists? Odemwingie finished the season before last as a striker, it's easily his best position, he'd relegated Crouch to the bench. In the second half of last season, Walters offered nothing on the right from January onwards, indeed his best performances also came when he was played as a forward. Both can 'fill in' on the right if called on but neither are ever going to match the heights of an in form Moses or Arnie on the left or even a Jermaine Pennant on the right. Quite simply because neither of them are right wingers.
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Post by Kjones9 on Jul 22, 2015 13:37:05 GMT
Apart from 10 goals and 4 assists? What are the stats from the left wing? Arnie and Moses combined then? Moses - 4 goals 3 assists, Arnie - 2 goals 5 assists. But your "We've offered nothing down the right. Zilch, Nada, Nichts, Rien du tous, Absolutely fuck all" wasn't true.
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Post by Kjones9 on Jul 22, 2015 13:39:20 GMT
Apart from 10 goals and 4 assists? Odemwingie finished the season before last as a striker, it's easily his best position, he'd relegated Crouch to the bench. In the second half of last season, Walters offered nothing on the right from January onwards, indeed his best performances also came when he was played as a forward. Both can 'fill in' on the right if called on but neither are ever going to match the heights of an in form Moses or Arnie on the left or even a Jermaine Pennant on the right. Quite simply because neither of them are right wingers. Again it was just the "offered nothing from the right wing" comment is just having selective memory. Yes we need another right winger, everyone knows that (including Hughes) so we don't need to over egg it.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 22, 2015 13:40:06 GMT
Odemwingie finished the season before last as a striker, it's easily his best position, he'd relegated Crouch to the bench. In the second half of last season, Walters offered nothing on the right from January onwards, indeed his best performances also came when he was played as a forward. Both can 'fill in' on the right if called on but neither are ever going to match the heights of an in form Moses or Arnie on the left or even a Jermaine Pennant on the right. Quite simply because neither of them are right wingers. Again it was just the "offered nothing from the right wing" comment is just having selective memory. Yes we need another right winger, everyone knows that (including Hughes) so we don't need to over egg it. Absolutely mate.
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Post by colinroberts1 on Jul 22, 2015 13:41:11 GMT
Alan Nixon @reluctantnickoHeard anything re: #scfc Nicko? I've been told that Yarmo deal is edging closer. Could even be next week!Get a horrible feeling u are being used. Again.Finding it hard to close deals. Not only ones.domestic target matty phillips anyone ?????? I think Stoke smell a rat and are happy for Yarmo interest to be out there. Because they're working on someone elseAny idea who? A little birdie mentioned Carillo and Afellay. Anything?Afellay was alive before. Think its domestic target. matty phillips anyone ??????
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Post by foster on Jul 22, 2015 13:46:58 GMT
What are the stats from the left wing? Arnie and Moses combined then? Moses - 4 goals 3 assists, Arnie - 2 goals 5 assists. But your "We've offered nothing down the right. Zilch, Nada, Nichts, Rien du tous, Absolutely fuck all" wasn't true. When I watch the games we have much less penetration down the right side than from the left. Same applies already from the two Singapore games. I just checked Arnies performance scores from last season and his total is more than Odems and Walters combined (having also played less than those two combined). As Paul says, it's not a slight on those two, but they're not wingers and we need to bring one in to progress.
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Post by feynmann2 on Jul 22, 2015 13:47:45 GMT
Apart from 10 goals and 4 assists? Odemwingie finished the season before last as a striker, it's easily his best position, he'd relegated Crouch to the bench. In the second half of last season, Walters offered nothing on the right from January onwards, indeed his best performances also came when he was played as a forward. Both can 'fill in' on the right if called on but neither are ever going to match the heights of an in form Moses or Arnie on the left or even a Jermaine Pennant on the right. Quite simply because neither of them are right wingers. Much as I wish we did we don't play with wingers as it stands we have players who 'cut in' as for the heights of an 'in form' Arnie or Moses, I wouldn't disagree but they are 'mercurial' at best... Finally with respect to Walters offering nothing from January, either he or Diouf played out there and, as they were our two top scorers, with more each than Moses & Arnie combined, its pretty insulting to say our right side is 'fucked' if we don't upgrade it...
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Post by foster on Jul 22, 2015 13:54:50 GMT
Odemwingie finished the season before last as a striker, it's easily his best position, he'd relegated Crouch to the bench. In the second half of last season, Walters offered nothing on the right from January onwards, indeed his best performances also came when he was played as a forward. Both can 'fill in' on the right if called on but neither are ever going to match the heights of an in form Moses or Arnie on the left or even a Jermaine Pennant on the right. Quite simply because neither of them are right wingers. Again it was just the "offered nothing from the right wing" comment is just having selective memory. Yes we need another right winger, everyone knows that (including Hughes) so we don't need to over egg it. Even so, you know what I mean. Obviously we offered something from the right, but clearly less than the left. Now, let's not get scrambled up over my choice of phrase and allow this discussion to boil over. My nerves are already fried from the disappointment of France 2015 without them being further poached on here.
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Post by feynmann2 on Jul 22, 2015 13:58:02 GMT
Again it was just the "offered nothing from the right wing" comment is just having selective memory. Yes we need another right winger, everyone knows that (including Hughes) so we don't need to over egg it. Even so, you know what I mean. Obviously we offered something from the right, but clearly less than the left. Now, let's not get scrambled up over my choice of phrase and allow this discussion to boil over. My nerves are already fried from the disappointment of France 2015 without them being further poached on here. 'Moses - 4 goals 3 assists, Arnie - 2 goals 5 assists- is THE SAME as 10 goals and 4 assists not less......
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Post by Kjones9 on Jul 22, 2015 13:58:25 GMT
Again it was just the "offered nothing from the right wing" comment is just having selective memory. Yes we need another right winger, everyone knows that (including Hughes) so we don't need to over egg it. Even so, you know what I mean. Obviously we offered something from the right, but clearly less than the left. Now, let's not get scrambled up over my choice of phrase and allow this discussion to boil over. My nerves are already fried from the disappointment of France 2015 without them being further poached on here. If you meant it relatively you wouldn't of typed it in different languages, that to me means that you really, REALLY meant it.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 22, 2015 14:01:41 GMT
Odemwingie finished the season before last as a striker, it's easily his best position, he'd relegated Crouch to the bench. In the second half of last season, Walters offered nothing on the right from January onwards, indeed his best performances also came when he was played as a forward. Both can 'fill in' on the right if called on but neither are ever going to match the heights of an in form Moses or Arnie on the left or even a Jermaine Pennant on the right. Quite simply because neither of them are right wingers. Much as I wish we did we don't play with wingers as it stands we have players who 'cut in' as for the heights of an 'in form' Arnie or Moses, I wouldn't disagree but they are 'mercurial' at best... Finally with respect to Walters offering nothing from January, either he or Diouf played out there and, as they were our two top scorers, with more each than Moses & Arnie combined, its pretty insulting to say our right side is 'fucked' if we don't upgrade it... Diouf is rubbish on the right too ... he'd probably tell you that to your face, if you asked him. If you're going to base your argument that they're both good enough to play on the right on the fact that they were our top two scorers last season, then we're going to be in for a long afternoon - and as I said earlier, it's probably better if we agree to disagree.
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Post by foster on Jul 22, 2015 14:02:55 GMT
Even so, you know what I mean. Obviously we offered something from the right, but clearly less than the left. Now, let's not get scrambled up over my choice of phrase and allow this discussion to boil over. My nerves are already fried from the disappointment of France 2015 without them being further poached on here. If you meant it relatively you wouldn't of typed it in different languages, that to me means that you really, REALLY meant it. No, I was just trying to show off my language skills! Which consist only of being able to say 'nothing at all' in 5 different languages. Obviously people aren't as impressed by this extraordinary feat as I anticipated.
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Post by foster on Jul 22, 2015 14:06:47 GMT
Even so, you know what I mean. Obviously we offered something from the right, but clearly less than the left. Now, let's not get scrambled up over my choice of phrase and allow this discussion to boil over. My nerves are already fried from the disappointment of France 2015 without them being further poached on here. 'Moses - 4 goals 3 assists, Arnie - 2 goals 5 assists- is THE SAME as 10 goals and 4 assists not less...... Well, I don't base the entire contribution of a player purely on two types of stats. Add in number of dribbles, successful passes, tackles, distance covered, etc and it would be more realistic. As said earlier, Arnies performance stats are better than SJW and Odems combined. Based on my own view of the game I can recall Arnie and Moses taking it past quite a few players on the wing (Arnie) or cutting inside (Moses) and then linking up well with the midfield and opening up space. I don't recall that happening so much on the right side.
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Post by feynmann2 on Jul 22, 2015 14:12:17 GMT
Much as I wish we did we don't play with wingers as it stands we have players who 'cut in' as for the heights of an 'in form' Arnie or Moses, I wouldn't disagree but they are 'mercurial' at best... Finally with respect to Walters offering nothing from January, either he or Diouf played out there and, as they were our two top scorers, with more each than Moses & Arnie combined, its pretty insulting to say our right side is 'fucked' if we don't upgrade it... Diouf is rubbish on the right too ... he'd probably tell you that to your face, if you asked him. If you're going to base your argument that they're both good enough to play on the right because they were our top two scorers last season, then we're going to be in for a long afternoon - and as I said earlier, it's probably better if we agree to disagree. As I've said before as someone who sits near the touchline on the half way line I've witnessed his joy at being on the right Ignoring the fact that both of our top scorers played on the right as a reason to say our right side is unfit for purpose is equally spurious as the facts tell you it is simply untrue.... As you know I think we need to upgrade both sides - its just that I'd bring in someone better than Arnie (Moses would be great), as we certainly need a player on that side anyway, before replacing a relatively reliable production route down the right - on this I agree we can choose to agree to disagree
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Post by feynmann2 on Jul 22, 2015 14:15:49 GMT
'Moses - 4 goals 3 assists, Arnie - 2 goals 5 assists- is THE SAME as 10 goals and 4 assists not less...... Well, I don't base the entire contribution of a player purely on two types of stats. Add in number of dribbles, successful passes, tackles, distance covered, etc and it would be more realistic. As said earlier, Arnies performance stats are better than SJW and Odems combined. Based on my own view of the game I can recall Arnie and Moses taking it past quite a few players on the wing (Arnie) or cutting inside (Moses) and then linking up well with the midfield and opening up space. I don't recall that happening so much on the right side. Goals are what decide games not dribbles or any of the other measures you mention - I'm sure there are many players who constantly dribble down blind alleys before successfully passing back over their own half way line which have great numbers in those categories...How many you score and how many you set up surely have to be the key measure of a forward player?
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