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Post by spitthedog on Jul 22, 2015 11:04:04 GMT
Good though Begovitch is he had an awful season last year and we are not weaker in that department. Let's see what happens in the rest of the window before saying the first 11 is weaker than last season. 'Awful season'!!!! I've seen many attempts to rewrite history in my time but this takes the biscuit. That is just disrespectful imho. Despite dropping his extremely high standards by about 10% he was still one of the main reasons why we finished in the top of the season There were still several instances where he saved our bacon at critical points in the season too. One thing that annoys me on this board is how players who have made significant contributions to our clubs progress are so casually dismissed.
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Post by meltonjohn on Jul 22, 2015 11:08:43 GMT
Good though Begovitch is he had an awful season last year and we are not weaker in that department. Let's see what happens in the rest of the window before saying the first 11 is weaker than last season. 'Awful season'!!!! I've seen many attempts to rewrite history in my time but this takes the biscuit. That is just disrespectful imho. Despite dropping his extremely high standards by about 10% he was still one of the main reasons why we finished in the top of the season There were still several instances where he saved our bacon at critical points in the season too. One thing that annoys me on this board is how players who have made significant contributions to our clubs progress are so casually dismissed.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Jul 22, 2015 11:12:10 GMT
Good though Begovitch is he had an awful season last year and we are not weaker in that department. Let's see what happens in the rest of the window before saying the first 11 is weaker than last season. Sorry but awful ? Thats simply not true Fact is last season we had Bego, Butland and Sorro This season Butland, Given and Haugaard How that can possibly not be weaker I dont knowLast season Wasn't Bego's best by a long chalk - he made more errors than in the previous two seasons combined. It wouldn't surprise me if Butland has as good a season, or better, than Bego did last season. Although Sorensen is a hero for his early years at Stoke, he's been way past his best for a long time - I'd say Given is a better keeper than Sorro was this time last year. Haugaard has surprised me by how decent he looks - I'll not be worried who the second choice keeper is between him and Given - they both look decent. And I'd expect Haugaard to have the number two spot by the 2016/17 season if not before. Bachmann - had a good first pro season at Wrexham and I'd expect him to get a loan to a league club this coming season. So, I don't think the goal keeping department is any weaker - and, in terms of depth, it could even be stronger than last season.
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Post by feynmann2 on Jul 22, 2015 11:15:57 GMT
Who is there domestically that would be a 'huge' signing? Surely not Townsend? Although Townsend is a 'Yarmolenko-like' player. ie, left footer on the right. Maybe that was what Hughes was referring to Can't think of any. Maybe we're off 'huge' and into 'realistic'? Beyond Moses, Townsend and Lennon, it's a struggle to find names and you'd probably be looking at around £10m for any of that lot - even Lennon! For that reason, got to think we're still looking abroad Remy maybe?
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Post by stokemark on Jul 22, 2015 11:16:26 GMT
You are spot on Benj has discredited himself with some of his doom mongering in the past (relegation predictions annually !) but thats not to say there isnt a strong argument that we are currently looking at a big problem. The first 11 IS weaker (there is no positive spin on that - we have lost 2 key players and are depending on unproven youngsters to step up to the mark in those positions). The key question is will we invest the money in the quality we clearly still lack ? We have banked £15m and spent around half of is so assuming that Hughes was promised (a very modest) £10m before the transfers of Nzonzi and Begovic we should be looking at a player or two still. If not and we go with what we have got I will be bitterly disappointed as we will not have progressed whilst other clearly are making sure they get their share of the filthy lucre from Sky. It will be the clubs acid test and despite all the hot air re: Yamalenko, Shaquiri and Konoplyanka it cannot be argued that Benjy's point re: completing any such deals is as valid as any optimists potentially miplaced confidence in the club to deliver such a signing(s) I disagree our 1st XI is weaker compared to the side we out out last year. No evidence Butland is weaker than Bego and then Johnson Shawcross Muniesa Pieters is better than a 4 with Cameron/Bardsley and Wilson in. Midfield with van Ginkel and Bojan at least equal to one with N'Zonzi and Adam/Ireland which was more common last year. Front three with Joselu and Diouf now at least as good and given relatively limited appearances of Moses, probably stronger. And we have more depth as cover in attack and defence. Our second team would be comfortably lower mid table. Add a top attacker and let the front 4 play and Van Ginkela bs Whelan hold and we will be flying Thats simply distorting the truth We are talking about our fit first 11 not based upon who was / wasnt available due to injury - Do you not think we are going to have injured players again this year then ? Last season we had both Butland AND Bego Defensively we have added Johnson which is a plus but again, why bring Wilson into it (who will not doubt have to play at some point due to injurys and suspensions) Why compare Bojan and Van Ginkel with Nzonzi / Adam and Ireland when our stronget pairing was Nzonzi AND Bojan (we have lost Nzonzi our player of the season who missed a couple of games over 3 seasons - Im sorry but no way are we stronger with the unproven Van Ginkel) Up front we have gained a player who arguably we didnt need and wont start (Joeslu) and lost Victor Moses - To argue we are stronger as an 11 when clearly Diouf and Joselu will be competing for teh same position (if Diouf is played wide again then thats criminal) I do not know. IF we sign a quality right sided winger and an experienced defensive central midfielder then I think it could be argued we are going in stronger but these two are (IMHO) critical pieces of the jigsaw.
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Post by stokemark on Jul 22, 2015 11:19:43 GMT
Sorry but awful ? Thats simply not true Fact is last season we had Bego, Butland and Sorro This season Butland, Given and Haugaard How that can possibly not be weaker I dont knowLast season Wasn't Bego's best by a long chalk - he made more errors than in the previous two seasons combined. It wouldn't surprise me if Butland has as good a season, or better, than Bego did last season. Although Sorensen is a hero for his early years at Stoke, he's been way past his best for a long time - I'd say Given is a better keeper than Sorro was this time last year. Haugaard has surprised me by how decent he looks - I'll not be worried who the second choice keeper is between him and Given - they both look decent. And I'd expect Haugaard to have the number two spot by the 2016/17 season if not before. Bachmann - had a good first pro season at Wrexham and I'd expect him to get a loan to a league club this coming season. So, I don't think the goal keeping department is any weaker - and, in terms of depth, it could even be stronger than last season. What so you are judging Haugaard on a pre-season friendly ? We had to make changes I reconise that Bego was going and actually am really happy with what we have done in this dept but I cannot understand how anyone in their right mind can say we are stronger wihout Bego.
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Post by upthefud on Jul 22, 2015 11:20:59 GMT
For me we are two top draw wingers away from being an excellent side again this season. Moses and Lennon would fit the bill perfectly.
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Post by FullerMagic on Jul 22, 2015 11:21:26 GMT
Can't think of any. Maybe we're off 'huge' and into 'realistic'? Beyond Moses, Townsend and Lennon, it's a struggle to find names and you'd probably be looking at around £10m for any of that lot - even Lennon! For that reason, got to think we're still looking abroad Remy maybe? Special One and Remy both seemed to be saying he wasn't leavingI can't really see any realistic domestic targets. Maybe Moses will reluctantly end up here come August. Lennon seems massively overpriced (although maybe Levy willhave to wake up come end of Aug?) And you'd be paying well over the odds for Townsend, although he'd probably be decent for us.
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Post by meltonjohn on Jul 22, 2015 11:23:20 GMT
Good though Begovitch is he had an awful season last year and we are not weaker in that department. Let's see what happens in the rest of the window before saying the first 11 is weaker than last season. 'Awful season'!!!! I've seen many attempts to rewrite history in my time but this takes the biscuit. That is just disrespectful imho. Despite dropping his extremely high standards by about 10% he was still one of the main reasons why we finished in the top of the season There were still several instances where he saved our bacon at critical points in the season too. One thing that annoys me on this board is how players who have made significant contributions to our clubs progress are so casually dismissed. It's called opinion. I've been a big fan of Begovitch but he cost us big time in too many matches for my liking last season. Like ALL premier keepers he also had some really good games but was nowhere near the standard of previous seasons. I think he's been our best keeper since Banks but not last season!
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Post by nott1 on Jul 22, 2015 11:31:36 GMT
Please , we don't want Lennon, he's a real blind alley merchant who has a good 10 minute spell once a season. We must be able to sign better than him FFS.
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Post by wearestoke80 on Jul 22, 2015 11:36:17 GMT
For me we are two top draw wingers away from being an excellent side again this season. Moses and Lennon would fit the bill perfectly. I wouldn't consider Lennon as "top draw"
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Post by feynmann2 on Jul 22, 2015 11:36:54 GMT
Special One and Remy both seemed to be saying he wasn't leavingI can't really see any realistic domestic targets. Maybe Moses will reluctantly end up here come August. Lennon seems massively overpriced (although maybe Levy willhave to wake up come end of Aug?) And you'd be paying well over the odds for Townsend, although he'd probably be decent for us. Once again your Google foo astounds! At least I have demonstrated I'm not a Guardian Reader I suppose Its certainly difficult to think of anyone that would meet the top drawer tag that we could pick up in England....in which case I think I would prefer we looked for a top drawer centre midfielder abroad than pick up a second stringer for £10m from Levy
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Post by thebet365 on Jul 22, 2015 11:38:11 GMT
Please , we don't want Lennon, he's a real blind alley merchant who has a good 10 minute spell once a season. We must be able to sign better than him FFS. He had far more than a good 10 minutes at Everton. He'd be my plan D but I'd rather have plan D than nothing it all.
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Post by themistocles on Jul 22, 2015 11:43:23 GMT
The more targets we miss out on, the later we leave it in the window, the more desperate we get. I can see us ending up with Townsend for the sane price as yarmolenko.
But you'll still get the same people people saying no rush, plenty of time left ect
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Post by philb on Jul 22, 2015 11:44:11 GMT
Isn't this the Yarmalenko thread? Lol
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Post by robrigo on Jul 22, 2015 11:47:26 GMT
Yarmo won't come. Don't knock the ambition but he won't join us will he?
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Post by nott1 on Jul 22, 2015 11:49:48 GMT
Please , we don't want Lennon, he's a real blind alley merchant who has a good 10 minute spell once a season. We must be able to sign better than him FFS. He had far more than a good 10 minutes at Everton. He'd be my plan D but I'd rather have plan D than nothing it all. He is shite and I'd rather stick with what we have got!
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Post by Northy on Jul 22, 2015 11:55:32 GMT
He had far more than a good 10 minutes at Everton. He'd be my plan D but I'd rather have plan D than nothing it all. He is shite and I'd rather stick with what we have got! No, the overweight, hungover bloke playing on a Sunday morning may be shite. These are very good players.
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Post by harryburrows on Jul 22, 2015 12:06:34 GMT
The more targets we miss out on, the later we leave it in the window, the more desperate we get. I can see us ending up with Townsend for the sane price as yarmolenko. But you'll still get the same people people saying no rush, plenty of time left ect Townsend is a very good player , I'd not be too disappointed if he was the last option
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Post by upthefud on Jul 22, 2015 12:09:47 GMT
For me we are two top draw wingers away from being an excellent side again this season. Moses and Lennon would fit the bill perfectly. I wouldn't consider Lennon as "top draw" He did well for Everton. Get him out of London and get his confidence back and we'll have a fantastic player on our hands, I'm sure he's only 27/28 too.
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Post by Claus_SCFC on Jul 22, 2015 12:11:15 GMT
Sorry but awful ? Thats simply not true Fact is last season we had Bego, Butland and Sorro This season Butland, Given and Haugaard How that can possibly not be weaker I dont knowLast season Wasn't Bego's best by a long chalk - he made more errors than in the previous two seasons combined. It wouldn't surprise me if Butland has as good a season, or better, than Bego did last season. Although Sorensen is a hero for his early years at Stoke, he's been way past his best for a long time - I'd say Given is a better keeper than Sorro was this time last year. Haugaard has surprised me by how decent he looks - I'll not be worried who the second choice keeper is between him and Given - they both look decent. And I'd expect Haugaard to have the number two spot by the 2016/17 season if not before. Bachmann - had a good first pro season at Wrexham and I'd expect him to get a loan to a league club this coming season. So, I don't think the goal keeping department is any weaker - and, in terms of depth, it could even be stronger than last season. Our goalkeeping department is weaker than last season. Compare keepers no. 1 to 3 over the two seasons: 1. Begovic v. Butland: I still considder Bego the best of these two very good keepers, but Jack's got great potential. 2. Butland v. Given: Butland better than Given. 3. Sørensen v. Haugaard: Although Thomas was nowhere near his prime, I still considder him a much better keeper than Haugaard, whose exploits in the Danish Super League doesn't fill me with confidence. I hope he proves me wrong. Overall we had a better pool of keepers last season.
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Post by themistocles on Jul 22, 2015 12:11:33 GMT
The more targets we miss out on, the later we leave it in the window, the more desperate we get. I can see us ending up with Townsend for the sane price as yarmolenko. But you'll still get the same people people saying no rush, plenty of time left ect Townsend is a very good player , I'd not be too disappointed if he was the last option He will improve our right side as currently we only have Walt's and odem, but he'll cost 15 mill which will be poor poor business. The longer we wait the more diminished our options become and we'll have to spunk that kink of money of him .
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2015 12:14:45 GMT
Please , we don't want Lennon, he's a real blind alley merchant who has a good 10 minute spell once a season. We must be able to sign better than him FFS. He had far more than a good 10 minutes at Everton. He'd be my plan D but I'd rather have plan D than nothing it all. Lennon did seem to do extremely well at Everton and seemed destined to sign for them, but he hasn't signed yet, and Everton continue to be linked (along with us) to every winger under the sun. Seems like Lennon's price is the only thing putting Everton off, £9m with 12 months left on his contract, and that's fair enough...
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Post by Vermelho20312505 on Jul 22, 2015 12:21:00 GMT
Last season Wasn't Bego's best by a long chalk - he made more errors than in the previous two seasons combined. It wouldn't surprise me if Butland has as good a season, or better, than Bego did last season. Although Sorensen is a hero for his early years at Stoke, he's been way past his best for a long time - I'd say Given is a better keeper than Sorro was this time last year. Haugaard has surprised me by how decent he looks - I'll not be worried who the second choice keeper is between him and Given - they both look decent. And I'd expect Haugaard to have the number two spot by the 2016/17 season if not before. Bachmann - had a good first pro season at Wrexham and I'd expect him to get a loan to a league club this coming season. So, I don't think the goal keeping department is any weaker - and, in terms of depth, it could even be stronger than last season. Our goalkeeping department is weaker than last season. Compare keepers no. 1 to 3 over the two seasons: 1. Begovic v. Butland: I still considder Bego the best of these two very good keepers, but Jack's got great potential. 2. Butland v. Given: Butland better than Given. 3. Sørensen v. Haugaard: Although Thomas was nowhere near his prime, I still considder him a much better keeper than Haugaard, whose exploits in the Danish Super League doesn't fill me with confidence. I hope he proves me wrong. Overall we had a better pool of keepers last season. You may be right but is it more important to ask if our goalkeeping options are adequate or better? This is a transition and therefore there is bound to be a dip in quality. Hopefully it will soon be balanced by improvement in Butland and Haugaard and overall the lose of Begovic may result in a better team. I hope so at least. Sent from my GT-I8190N using proboards
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Post by thebet365 on Jul 22, 2015 12:22:17 GMT
Townsend is a very good player , I'd not be too disappointed if he was the last option He will improve our right side as currently we only have Walt's and odem, but he'll cost 15 mill which will be poor poor business. The longer we wait the more diminished our options become and we'll have to spunk that kink of money of him . Stoke city 6 Liverpool 1 finishing with highest points etc etc Squad Begovic signed 1st FebruaryCameron signed 25th JulyShawcross signed 9th AugustMuniesa signed 2nd July 1 for the future at the time Pieters signed 28th June Had been chasing him since January Walters signed 18th AugustWhelan signed 30th JanuaryNzonzi signed 31st AugustArnie signed 2nd SeptemberAdam signed 31st AugDiouf signed 11th June Having chased him for a year Subs Ireland signed 2nd SeptemberOdemwingie signed 28th JanuaryWilson signed 31st AugustSidwell signed 9th June Out of contract Crouch signed 31st AugustButland signed 31st JanuaryWollshied signed 5th January Not much love for him on here ? Oh yeah and Bojan signed 22nd JulyAll our best players have been signed in the later stages of the transfer windows. Give it a rest ya melt.
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Post by harryburrows on Jul 22, 2015 12:23:45 GMT
Townsend is a very good player , I'd not be too disappointed if he was the last option He will improve our right side as currently we only have Walt's and odem, but he'll cost 15 mill which will be poor poor business. The longer we wait the more diminished our options become and we'll have to spunk that kink of money of him . Even if we don't sign a winger in this window it would be disappointing but not the end of the world we managed last season , and we do have Johnson as an outlet on the right my main concern is replacing nzonzi
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Post by jezzascfc on Jul 22, 2015 12:40:15 GMT
Domestic target says Nicko - candidates: Moses, Lennon, Townsend, Salah, Cuadrado, Remy, Januzaj??? Any others? I can see us going back for Moses and/or Lennon.
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Post by Kjones9 on Jul 22, 2015 12:51:05 GMT
Is it even worth carrying on supporting Stoke City?
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Post by Jamo on the wing on Jul 22, 2015 12:56:12 GMT
Domestic target says Nicko - candidates: Moses, Lennon, Townsend, Salah, Cuadrado, Remy, Januzaj??? Any others? I can see us going back for Moses and/or Lennon. Out of all those I think I'd still go for Moses although Remy would be great too.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 22, 2015 13:08:25 GMT
Domestic target says Nicko - candidates: Moses, Lennon, Townsend, Salah, Cuadrado, Remy, Januzaj??? Any others? I can see us going back for Moses and/or Lennon. Out of all those I think I'd still go for Moses although Remy would be great too. If we did indeed end up with Moses we'd still be fucked on the right. I think Moses is a waaaay better winger than Lennon but I'd genuinely rather see us starting with Arnie on the left and Lennon on the right, than see Moses on the left and Arnie on the right.
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