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Post by Jamo on the wing on Jul 19, 2015 17:51:48 GMT
Signing on fees are spread over the length of the contract Only for admin sakes they are. Club financiers have to show figures over the lenght of a player contract it's called amortisation I mentioned the other week that given all the money sloshing about in the Premier League, I was surprised to learn that most deals were paid for out of secured loans spread out over the contract.
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Post by FullerMagic on Jul 19, 2015 17:52:17 GMT
So with the Dynamo game ending in about half an hour, we could get a really good steer on it from Yarmo/his manager's post-match comments.
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Post by bmstoke on Jul 19, 2015 17:52:29 GMT
What reputation? You haven't got one, have you? Not on here at least. Hughes has already said that if 'Yarmo' deal happens that will end the club's business. Huth fee = Wolly fee N'Zonzi =£7m perhaps £6m as Blackburn were owed a cut Bego =£8m Hauggard £0.6m van Ginkel loan Given free Johnson free Joselu £5m We know agents fees, signing on fees bump up the cost considerably but as far as transfer fees are concerned we're in profit £8.4m. The 'Yarmo' fee is rumoured to be £12-14m? So, if we bought him we would have spent £3.6 - £5.6m. So, though the wages bill will have increased considerably the transfer fee cost will be very modest when you look at what N'castle, W.H.U. and Crystal Palace are spending. And I daresay Mitrovic, Cabaye are on very big wages. So, If we did got 'Yarmo' it would be a good window but one where we could still find ourselves marking time? So, would you rather have the same squad but have spent £10 million more on it?
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Post by slpmarc on Jul 19, 2015 17:57:19 GMT
Only for admin sakes they are. Club financiers have to show figures over the lenght of a player contract it's called amortisation So on that, say we had to pay player x a £5m signing on fee to 'soften' the wage difference, how do 'admin' not show a £5m payment going out to player x in august instead of spread over a four year contract? I am not an accountant, but that's what happens, all transfer fees signing on fees are spread over the length of the contract no matter how much is given upfront as a payment to club or player
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Post by discokaraoke on Jul 19, 2015 17:58:45 GMT
Obviously our past reputation will count against us but I genuinely believe these deals are still a bridge to far for us or any other team in our situation given the lack of European football and our standing in the broader football world. Yes, we have serious financial clout and are a very stable upper mid table Premier League club. However, we are still not considered a serious proposition to these world renowned players. Unless we are the only show in town then there will always be a bigger club who will think "we may as well sign him" coupled with the fact the player's agent will use us to flush out other suitors willing to pay more money and give their client a bigger stage to perform on. I wholeheartedly applaud the club for trying to get these higher profile players but the realist in me thinks we will have to settle for slighter lower targets for the time being. That said, eventually one of these ambitious arrows will hit the bullseye and who knows, it could be Yarmo. Well said that man just hope Benji agree's mate.And Trigger.
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Post by trigger on Jul 19, 2015 17:59:18 GMT
What transfer kitty, you'll find it won't equate much more than what we've taken in so far, I'll stake my reputation on that. What reputation? You haven't got one, have you? Not on here at least. It was a tongue in cheek post, and no I haven't, or you could ask SLP Marc.
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Post by slpmarc on Jul 19, 2015 18:04:01 GMT
What reputation? You haven't got one, have you? Not on here at least. It was a tongue in cheek post, and no I haven't, or you could ask SLP Marc. I have heard Trigger has a massive reputation but that's for another time and another thread
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Post by nicholasjalcock on Jul 19, 2015 18:05:16 GMT
Hughes has already said that if 'Yarmo' deal happens that will end the club's business. Huth fee = Wolly fee N'Zonzi =£7m perhaps £6m as Blackburn were owed a cut Bego =£8m Hauggard £0.6m van Ginkel loan Given free Johnson free Joselu £5m We know agents fees, signing on fees bump up the cost considerably but as far as transfer fees are concerned we're in profit £8.4m. The 'Yarmo' fee is rumoured to be £12-14m? So, if we bought him we would have spent £3.6 - £5.6m. So, though the wages bill will have increased considerably the transfer fee cost will be very modest when you look at what N'castle, W.H.U. and Crystal Palace are spending. And I daresay Mitrovic, Cabaye are on very big wages. So, If we did got 'Yarmo' it would be a good window but one where we could still find ourselves marking time? So, would you rather have the same squad but have spent £10 million more on it? You're confusing spending a lot of money wisely and a lot of money unwisely. Nobody knows if N'castle have spent wisely? However, statistical work dating back decades showed transfer fee expenditure was directly correlated to success in the league. L'pool's Bill Shankley said the priority was always the team and then the ground/facilities. It's one of the reasons L'pool had so much success over a generation. If you're saying we should buy cheaply, I agree. Two teams have bought very cheaply i.e. Seville for one midfielder and Chelsea for one goalkeeper! Other teams screw us so we should do the same to others!
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Post by bmstoke on Jul 19, 2015 18:08:37 GMT
That's the point I'm making, it's not how much you spend that matters but what you spend it on.
I think Liverpool proved that last season.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Jul 19, 2015 18:11:00 GMT
Obviously our past reputation will count against us but I genuinely believe these deals are still a bridge too far for us or any other team in our situation given the lack of European football and our standing in the broader football world. Yes, we have serious financial clout and are a very stable upper mid table Premier League club. However, we are still not considered a serious proposition to these world renowned players. Unless we are the only show in town then there will always be a bigger club who will think "we may as well sign him" coupled with the fact the player's agent will use us to flush out other suitors willing to pay more money and give their client a bigger stage to perform on. I wholeheartedly applaud the club for trying to get these higher profile players but the realist in me thinks we will have to settle for slighter lower targets for the time being. That said, eventually one of these ambitious arrows will hit the bullseye and who knows, it could be Yarmo. That is exactly right. The first one in may take some doing but we get one and others will follow. We are an ambitious club with aspirations of European football sooner rather than later. We may need to convince everyone we're capable of achieving it but and if anyone can mark Hughes is that man!
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Post by Jamo on the wing on Jul 19, 2015 18:15:20 GMT
Obviously our past reputation will count against us but I genuinely believe these deals are still a bridge too far for us or any other team in our situation given the lack of European football and our standing in the broader football world. Yes, we have serious financial clout and are a very stable upper mid table Premier League club. However, we are still not considered a serious proposition to these world renowned players. Unless we are the only show in town then there will always be a bigger club who will think "we may as well sign him" coupled with the fact the player's agent will use us to flush out other suitors willing to pay more money and give their client a bigger stage to perform on. I wholeheartedly applaud the club for trying to get these higher profile players but the realist in me thinks we will have to settle for slighter lower targets for the time being. That said, eventually one of these ambitious arrows will hit the bullseye and who knows, it could be Yarmo. That is exactly right. The first one in may take some doing but we get one and others will follow. We are an ambitious club with aspirations of European football sooner rather than later. We may need to convince everyone we're capable of achieving it but and if anyone can mark Hughes is that man! It's a bit chicken and egg, Dave. You can't attract the big name players without Europe but you (as a rule) need some to get there. What we have to do is gradually improve the squad as we have been doing and eventually we will start to qualify for Europe on a (semi) consistent basis hopefully. Then you will see our stock rise and players actively seek to join us.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2015 18:15:29 GMT
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Post by butlerstbob on Jul 19, 2015 18:16:22 GMT
That's the point I'm making, it's not how much you spend that matters but what you spend it on. I think Liverpool proved that last season. And probably this season too fella! Top half purchases and not top six! If I were a Liverpool fan I would not be happy with what brenda has wasted money on!
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 19, 2015 18:17:08 GMT
That is exactly right. The first one in may take some doing but we get one and others will follow. We are an ambitious club with aspirations of European football sooner rather than later. We may need to convince everyone we're capable of achieving it but and if anyone can mark Hughes is that man! It's a bit chicken and egg, Dave. You can't attract the big name players without Europe but you (as a rule) need some to get there. What we have to do is gradually improve the squad as we have been doing and eventually we will start to qualify for Europe on a (semi) consistent basis hopefully. Then you will see our stock rise and players actively seek to join us. Very true. As things stand I think our squad is weaker than last season.....
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Post by Jamo on the wing on Jul 19, 2015 18:20:06 GMT
It's a bit chicken and egg, Dave. You can't attract the big name players without Europe but you (as a rule) need some to get there. What we have to do is gradually improve the squad as we have been doing and eventually we will start to qualify for Europe on a (semi) consistent basis hopefully. Then you will see our stock rise and players actively seek to join us. Very true. As things stand I think our squad is weaker than last season..... I'd agree. My opinion is we need a centre back, an N'Zonzi replacement and the winger we've been so actively chasing.
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Post by stokiejoe on Jul 19, 2015 18:20:06 GMT
Hughes said he was hoping to get in a player of top top quality. He didn't say that would be the end of our business.
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Post by slpmarc on Jul 19, 2015 18:21:24 GMT
No fee has been accepted, don't think Kiev will accept one, and Stoke will have to hit his release fee to take them out the equation.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 19, 2015 18:21:23 GMT
Very true. As things stand I think our squad is weaker than last season..... I'd agree. My opinion is we need a centre back, an N'Zonzi replacement and the winger we've been so actively chasing. That would be ideal. I still think we need another winger really. But that won't happen.
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Post by bmstoke on Jul 19, 2015 18:23:06 GMT
It's a bit chicken and egg, Dave. You can't attract the big name players without Europe but you (as a rule) need some to get there. What we have to do is gradually improve the squad as we have been doing and eventually we will start to qualify for Europe on a (semi) consistent basis hopefully. Then you will see our stock rise and players actively seek to join us. Very true. As things stand I think our squad is weaker than last season..... As things stand, it probably is. That's why Carto is flying around Europe flashing a massive wedge.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2015 18:28:22 GMT
We can't do that. More players will want parity or it could wreck the dressing room. It's what clubs like Pompey did and we must not do the same. I just don't agree with that at all. There are large disparities at every club I bet. If we're afraid to push on because some mard arse in the dressing room might kick off then we might as well go home. Afraid is too strong a word. If we bring a player in on massive money you can bet the likes of Whelan, Walters and Wilson will (rightly) kick off and want a bit more money in line. Then what about the likes of Bojan, Shawcross, Arnautovic and Diouf? Before you know it, a 100k a week megastar is suddenly costing you 160, 170 180k, 200k+ per week. The clubs have little power because they know if they don't they will have a QPR style revolt. Once that happens you are knackered. It's too simplistic to look at it and say "lets do it because if we're scared to do it then we might aswell pack in". Put yourself in the shoes of the rest of the squad. They've grafted their tits off for two seasons to give the club record finishes. How would you feel if some Johnny come lately came in off the back of your hard work and got a massive contract? We're too small a club to go to that length. Give the lads already here a bit of a rise and bring in someone that little bit more expensive to improve the side and keep parity. That said, I hope we sign Yarmolenko and sod the rest.
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Post by Sergeant Muttley on Jul 19, 2015 18:29:42 GMT
Very true. As things stand I think our squad is weaker than last season..... I'd agree. My opinion is we need a centre back, an N'Zonzi replacement and the winger we've been so actively chasing. I'm glad you see it the same as me mate in that we need a centre back,absolutely essential we buy/loan a top class centre half but Sparky's comment about one more signing and thats it really worries me.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 19, 2015 18:30:43 GMT
I'd agree. My opinion is we need a centre back, an N'Zonzi replacement and the winger we've been so actively chasing. I'm glad you see it the same as me mate in that we need a centre back,absolutely essential we buy/loan a top class centre half but Sparky's comment about one more signing and thats it really worries me. Not necessarily top class but we need a good un for when Muni and Ryan are injured which I fear will be a lot this season.
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Post by jeycov on Jul 19, 2015 18:30:44 GMT
Tottenham chasing Berahino - meets the Home grown criteria
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Post by datguy on Jul 19, 2015 18:32:05 GMT
No fee has been accepted, don't think Kiev will accept one, and Stoke will have to hit his release fee to take them out the equation. Any idea what his release fee is?
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Post by Sergeant Muttley on Jul 19, 2015 18:32:38 GMT
I'm glad you see it the same as me mate in that we need a centre back,absolutely essential we buy/loan a top class centre half but Sparky's comment about one more signing and thats it really worries me. Not necessarily top class but we need a good un for when Muni and Ryan are injured which I fear will be a lot this season. Someone who can also be a threat in the opposition box as well from set plays and can also help defend the opposition set plays.
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Post by chigstoke on Jul 19, 2015 18:34:44 GMT
A Centre Back would be nice to have. If Shawcross' back problem persists, we need someone who can adequately replace Shawcross or play alongside him when fit if needs be. Thing is, I want Muni to progress in that role too. A right winger is something we obviously need. Odemwingie isn't going to last forever, and neither is Jon. When we get a right winger in, I can't see Walters staying, and while he is part of the club backbone, with progress unfortunately comes with having to lose some players. That's football. Let's just wait and see how this one goes!
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 19, 2015 18:35:21 GMT
Not necessarily top class but we need a good un for when Muni and Ryan are injured which I fear will be a lot this season. Someone who can also be a threat in the opposition box as well from set plays and can also help defend the opposition set plays. That would be nice but I don't want a starter particularly. Muni and Ryan are the perfect CB partnership.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2015 18:36:29 GMT
I wouldn't be surprised to see Shawcross go under the knife this season.
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Post by slpmarc on Jul 19, 2015 18:36:32 GMT
A Centre Back would be nice to have. If Shawcross' back problem persists, we need someone who can adequately replace Shawcross or play alongside him when fit. Thing is, I want Muni to progress in that role too. A right winger is something we obviously need. Odemwingie isn't going to last forever, and neither is Jon. When we get a right winger in, I can't see Walters staying, and while he is part of the club backbone, with progress unfortunately comes with having to lose some players. That's football. Let's just wait and see how this one goes! Muniesa will be first choice with Shawcross, and Cameron has done nothing wrong over past 2 games to suggest he could not do a more than decent job at CB.
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Post by chigstoke on Jul 19, 2015 18:39:07 GMT
A Centre Back would be nice to have. If Shawcross' back problem persists, we need someone who can adequately replace Shawcross or play alongside him when fit. Thing is, I want Muni to progress in that role too. A right winger is something we obviously need. Odemwingie isn't going to last forever, and neither is Jon. When we get a right winger in, I can't see Walters staying, and while he is part of the club backbone, with progress unfortunately comes with having to lose some players. That's football. Let's just wait and see how this one goes! Muniesa will be first choice with Shawcross, and Cameron has done nothing wrong over past 2 games to suggest he could not do a more than decent job at CB. I was actually very impressed with Cameron in the games against Everton and Singapore. If he can play like that a bit more consistently, then yes, he is a very viable option. I forgot about him to be honest
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