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Post by mosquito on Jul 25, 2014 15:17:25 GMT
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 25, 2014 15:18:39 GMT
He sounds like a right twat.
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Post by Gods on Jul 25, 2014 15:21:47 GMT
To be fair it doesn't sound like he is part of the 'inner circle'.
Rather that he has been invited in to give a short talk on his "start'em young' ethos" while Greg Dyke sits at the back gurning away to himself.
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Post by claudinho on Jul 25, 2014 15:29:14 GMT
America did finish above England in consecutive World Cups...
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Post by Northy on Jul 25, 2014 15:32:12 GMT
I was on a plane over to Belfast this morning, the Man Utd U13 squad was on it as well, escorted by a couple of old guys and 2 younger ones, I wondered how many of them would actually get to play for a top team in England in 7 to 8 years time if it keeps on going how it does with the standard of coaching, foreigners playing over here etc.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 25, 2014 15:32:59 GMT
They didn't but I wouldn't swap one American for one Englishman out of our respective best XI's.
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Post by claudinho on Jul 25, 2014 15:40:41 GMT
They didn't but I wouldn't swap one American for one Englishman out of our respective best XI's. Well, then, you're incompetent
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Post by mosquito on Jul 25, 2014 15:42:48 GMT
They didn't but I wouldn't swap one American for one Englishman out of our respective best XI's. Well, then, you're incompetent The FA and the man they put in charge as Manager is
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2014 15:43:54 GMT
i don't see the problem. isn't this all about developing the game so we have better standards of players coming through?
look at how much the US game and team have progressed in terms of quality and the ability to compete at tournaments compared to the English development over the last 10-15 years.....no question in my mind that the English FA could learn a fuck of a lot from the US when it comes to developing and progressing the game over here!
but once again the Oatcake logic strikes.....slag off the English FA, the manager and the team for what happened in the World Cup, talk about how we need to change things to improve matters and then when they get someone in that can give us some advice on that we get "Fuck off he's a yank what does he know!"
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 25, 2014 15:44:50 GMT
They didn't but I wouldn't swap one American for one Englishman out of our respective best XI's. Well, then, you're incompetent Close. The only ones I'd even consider are Howard (but I really don't like him) and Bradley, who actually might sneak in. Maybe the right back, whoever that is but only because England's are so bad. The centre halves are a bigger joke than England's. The left back? DM, neither has a good one but Rodwell is better than any Amrican. This is where Bradley could come in. Barkley then easily. And then up front and on the wings it's not a contest. Sturridge et al win.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 25, 2014 15:49:04 GMT
i don't see the problem. isn't this all about developing the game so we have better standards of players coming through? look at how much the US game and team have progressed in terms of quality and the ability to compete at tournaments compared to the English development over the last 10-15 years.....no question in my mind that the English FA could learn a fuck of a lot from the US when it comes to developing and progressing the game over here! but once again the Oatcake logic strikes.....slag off the English FA, the manager and the team for what happened in the World Cup, talk about how we need to change things to improve matters and then when they get someone in that can give us some advice on that we get "Fuck off he's a yank what does he know!" He is talking monumental horseshit though...... I couldn't give a shit where he's from or what he's done (which is seemingly not very much). How may consultants do they get in for this sort of thing? There seems to be a new one every season. They do absolutely bog all and until there is root and branch in the FA and Premier League nothing will change.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2014 15:50:23 GMT
i don't see the problem. isn't this all about developing the game so we have better standards of players coming through? look at how much the US game and team have progressed in terms of quality and the ability to compete at tournaments compared to the English development over the last 10-15 years.....no question in my mind that the English FA could learn a fuck of a lot from the US when it comes to developing and progressing the game over here! but once again the Oatcake logic strikes.....slag off the English FA, the manager and the team for what happened in the World Cup, talk about how we need to change things to improve matters and then when they get someone in that can give us some advice on that we get "Fuck off he's a yank what does he know!" He is talking monumental horseshit though...... I couldn't give a shit where he's from or what he's done (which is seemingly not very much). How may consultants do they get in for this sort of thing? There seems to be a new one every season. They do absolutely bog all and until there is root and branch in the FA and Premier League nothing will change. in which case then surely we blame the English FA for not listening to their consultants rather than slag off the consultants themselves?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 25, 2014 15:51:46 GMT
He is talking monumental horseshit though...... I couldn't give a shit where he's from or what he's done (which is seemingly not very much). How may consultants do they get in for this sort of thing? There seems to be a new one every season. They do absolutely bog all and until there is root and branch in the FA and Premier League nothing will change. in which case then surely we blame the English FA for not listening to their consultants rather than slag off the consultants themselves? But when the consultants are talking shit......... At the age of two you shouldn't be moulding kids into anything.
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Post by mosquito on Jul 25, 2014 15:52:48 GMT
i don't see the problem. isn't this all about developing the game so we have better standards of players coming through? look at how much the US game and team have progressed in terms of quality and the ability to compete at tournaments compared to the English development over the last 10-15 years.....no question in my mind that the English FA could learn a fuck of a lot from the US when it comes to developing and progressing the game over here! but once again the Oatcake logic strikes.....slag off the English FA, the manager and the team for what happened in the World Cup, talk about how we need to change things to improve matters and then when they get someone in that can give us some advice on that we get "Fuck off he's a yank what does he know!" My opening post was not aimed at slagging off an American coach. I just think if we want to emulate any teams ability, ethic and skill. Then the German's are definitely number one. The majority of there players are all still young. So they are definitely doing something right with the development of young talent. Where the US team has an amazing work ethic and team spirit, but are not the best technically.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 25, 2014 15:59:23 GMT
We shouldn't be emulating anyone.
We should sit down, decide on what we want from our footballers and go about coaching and developing in that way. Two years ago people wanted us playing like Spain, now Germany. Well why not try and make our style? That actually requires hard work and thinking though...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2014 15:59:44 GMT
i don't see the problem. isn't this all about developing the game so we have better standards of players coming through? look at how much the US game and team have progressed in terms of quality and the ability to compete at tournaments compared to the English development over the last 10-15 years.....no question in my mind that the English FA could learn a fuck of a lot from the US when it comes to developing and progressing the game over here! but once again the Oatcake logic strikes.....slag off the English FA, the manager and the team for what happened in the World Cup, talk about how we need to change things to improve matters and then when they get someone in that can give us some advice on that we get "Fuck off he's a yank what does he know!" My opening post was not aimed at slagging off an American coach. I just think if we want to emulate any teams ability, ethic and skill. Then the German's are definitely number one. The majority of there players are all still young. So they are definitely doing something right with the development of young talent. Where the US team has an amazing work ethic and team spirit, but are not the best technically. true but i think the simple reason is that the FA want a quick fix because the public demand that and the English fans don't want to wait around for years and years for results! the US have come from being a team that most laughed at, were thought of as being a side that anyone could dick 4 or 5 nil and were mocked only a decade or so ago to being a team that now compete at the highest level in international tournaments better than we do with players who aren't as technically gifted as ours. if we went back to the german model then we may end up having to wait 20-30 years for results (remember they've ALWAYS done well at major tournaments...far more often than we ever have, their evolution has being going on for decades. let's not pretend this WC was some bizarre anomaly in German footballing history) and the English FA want a quicker resolution than that so...makes perfect sense to look at a country who (despite not having many technically renowned players globally) have turned a below par side into a competitive side in what is a relatively extremely short timeframe. if we could replicate that with technically better players than they have in the same space of time that they turned around their side in, then it's job done.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2014 16:09:04 GMT
in which case then surely we blame the English FA for not listening to their consultants rather than slag off the consultants themselves? But when the consultants are talking shit......... At the age of two you shouldn't be moulding kids into anything. he hasn't said moulded though has he? he said nurtured which is a completely different thing. he's basically simply said that if kids are playing at the age of two then all a dad has to do is say "See if you can pass it to me" or "See how far you can run with it" instead of "See how far/hard you can kick it". he even emphasised that in his analogy with algebra etc. but you've read some evil Chinese gymnastics style "Bring them in as toddlers and force them to train" idea into it which isn't even there! it's not as if he's talking about taking toddlers and locking them up to do hardcore training on a daily basis! kids today in school teams are still taught to basically kick and run, if you're a defender then you get rid etc. and that's the problem that everyone has been talking about for years now with "Grass roots".it's not a new idea this bloke has come up with. if you look at virtually every other national side in the world, they have a team where all 11 players (including the keeper) are comfortable on the ball, we don't! we have players that still play the "English" way because it's ingrained and traditional....it's nothing but pure arrogance of us to think of that as being the way it should go simply because that's how we've always done it. THAT'S the reason why the rest of the footballing world has progressed while we've stood still and are now being overtaken! you can't slag off the english FA and the management and the team and say something has to be done and then just slag off the people who come up an idea that virtually every other consultant has also come up with in the past i.e. start teaching them as young as possible. fair enough if you don't like it but i fail to see why so many surprised when we fail to compete when we seem to have an attitude of "You're talking bollocks mate..that's just wrong"....well it's what every other country is doing so if we don't want to and CHOOSE not to because we think it's wrong then quite simply we lose the right to sit back whinging our arse off when we get steadily worse and worse.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 25, 2014 16:17:16 GMT
But when the consultants are talking shit......... At the age of two you shouldn't be moulding kids into anything. he hasn't said moulded though has he? he said nurtured which is a completely different thing. he's basically simply said that if kids are playing at the age of two then all a dad has to do is say "See if you can pass it to me" or "See how far you can run with it" instead of "See how far/hard you can kick it". he even emphasised that in his analogy with algebra etc. but you've read some evil Chinese gymnastics style "Bring them in as toddlers and force them to train" idea into it which isn't even there! it's not as if he's talking about taking toddlers and locking them up to do hardcore training on a daily basis! kids today in school teams are still taught to basically kick and run, if you're a defender then you get rid etc. and that's the problem that everyone has been talking about for years now with "Grass roots".it's not a new idea this bloke has come up with. if you look at virtually every other national side in the world, they have a team where all 11 players (including the keeper) are comfortable on the ball, we don't! we have players that still play the "English" way because it's ingrained and traditional....it's nothing but pure arrogance of us to think of that as being the way it should go simply because that's how we've always done it. THAT'S the reason why the rest of the footballing world has progressed while we've stood still and are now being overtaken! you can't slag off the english FA and the management and the team and say something has to be done and then just slag off the people who come up an idea that virtually every other consultant has also come up with in the past i.e. start teaching them as young as possible. fair enough if you don't like it but i fail to see why so many surprised when we fail to compete when we seem to have an attitude of "You're talking bollocks mate..that's just wrong"....well it's what every other country is doing so if we don't want to and CHOOSE not to because we think it's wrong then quite simply we lose the right to sit back whinging our arse off when we get steadily worse and worse. You should leave two year olds to play, nothing more. They shouldn't be anything, they should just kick a ball and have fun. It's complete horseshit and not what is needed. What is needed is a complete overhaul of English football from top to bottom, that will never happen. And you seem to think I want nothing to change which is odd considering I've used the phrase "root and branch change", you seem to be the missing point and keep banging on about jingoism and such like. I'm quite the opposite in fact, we need to change but we need to do it on our terms whilst learning the best from around the world. I just happen to think that this bloke is talking absolute shit....because he is. I think this side has the makings of being decent tbh. Really poor management let us down. And even with the defence as it is we should have gone further. Now that's a problem the FA don't seem to see, the woeful lack of good English managers. There is none.........what's their plan for that?
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Post by thedeadlyshart on Jul 25, 2014 16:20:29 GMT
If England want to punch above their weight, which they will need to do to compete with the likes of Germany, Spain, Holland, and even France, they should take note of the USA's approach to tournaments. That being said, this fellow has nothing to do with development of USA internationals, he's been developing talent in Asia. Any comparison to the development of young England internationals and USA internationals is irrelevant when it comes to whether or not Mr. Byer is, or is not, full of shit.
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Jul 25, 2014 16:25:29 GMT
in which case then surely we blame the English FA for not listening to their consultants rather than slag off the consultants themselves? No it's still the Fa who choose the consultants so it's all down to the FA. They are the sole reason for our failure to develop, the spineless bunch of amatwats!
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Post by Billybigbollox on Jul 25, 2014 17:01:37 GMT
i don't see the problem. isn't this all about developing the game so we have better standards of players coming through? look at how much the US game and team have progressed in terms of quality and the ability to compete at tournaments compared to the English development over the last 10-15 years.....no question in my mind that the English FA could learn a fuck of a lot from the US when it comes to developing and progressing the game over here! but once again the Oatcake logic strikes.....slag off the English FA, the manager and the team for what happened in the World Cup, talk about how we need to change things to improve matters and then when they get someone in that can give us some advice on that we get "Fuck off he's a yank what does he know!" He is talking monumental horseshit though...... I couldn't give a shit where he's from or what he's done (which is seemingly not very much). How may consultants do they get in for this sort of thing? There seems to be a new one every season. They do absolutely bog all and until there is root and branch in the FA and Premier League nothing will change. Absolutely right Bayern.
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Post by 1982stokie on Jul 25, 2014 17:58:02 GMT
We shouldn't be emulating anyone. We should sit down, decide on what we want from our footballers and go about coaching and developing in that way. Two years ago people wanted us playing like Spain, now Germany. Well why not try and make our style? That actually requires hard work and thinking though... Spot on, we seem to just jump on the bandwagon incapable of thinking for ourselves.
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frumpy
Youth Player
Posts: 324
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Post by frumpy on Jul 25, 2014 18:25:11 GMT
I know a fair amount about Tom Byer. Some of you apparently do not. He's an American, but it pretty much stops there.
He left America two decades ago to rebuild football in Asia. Did monumental work in Japan, won awards across Asia, even won the golden boot award at the 98 WC draw. Only youth coach to ever receive that award(yeah, no English or German or Spanish youth coaches have won that award). He's very hands on an the improvement in technical play from Japan, where a number of those players are now playing in the Bundesliga, he helped develop Kagawa by the way and worked with him as a kid, has shown his impact on the level of player Japan has produced.
He's now starting to do the same in China after the Chinese FA brought him in.
There's a lot of other things which goes into player development, including teaching tactics and good situations for younger players to actually play and get minutes, but comparing him to America and anything happening in America is simply ignorant and wrong. He doesn't work in America, hasn't worked in America since the 80's, and while America is improving, if we had Byer we'd be farther ahead than we are now as he actually understand how to develop youth while America is still struggling with that. Have MLS improving, have academies, level of play is rising but the one area America falls real short is proven development coaches working with youth.
So do me and America a favor and don't link Byer to us. It's embarrassing your FA contacted him before OURS did! But, he does not represent America much in any way.
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Post by happycarrot on Jul 25, 2014 18:26:36 GMT
They didn't but I wouldn't swap one American for one Englishman out of our respective best XI's. That's why they were bottom of the group I guess. Believing are better than others when England and Honduras were the worst teams there
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 25, 2014 18:29:05 GMT
They didn't but I wouldn't swap one American for one Englishman out of our respective best XI's. That's why they were bottom of the group I guess. Believing are better than others when England and Honduras were the worst teams there We were bottom down to rank incompetent management.
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Post by happycarrot on Jul 25, 2014 21:27:19 GMT
And the players are blameless?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 25, 2014 21:32:12 GMT
Not blameless but when they're set up to be completely open then you're not going to get many points on the board. We were naive and that stemmed from Woy. We were too defensive in the Euro's and we were too open in the World Cup. Hopefully he might look in the dictionary and find the word "balance".
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Post by mailman44 on Jul 26, 2014 6:28:20 GMT
Not blameless but when they're set up to be completely open then you're not going to get many points on the board. We were naive and that stemmed from Woy. We were too defensive in the Euro's and we were too open in the World Cup. Hopefully he might look in the dictionary and find the word "balance". Many continue to say England lost out before a ball was even kicked in anger ....
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 26, 2014 10:16:27 GMT
Not blameless but when they're set up to be completely open then you're not going to get many points on the board. We were naive and that stemmed from Woy. We were too defensive in the Euro's and we were too open in the World Cup. Hopefully he might look in the dictionary and find the word "balance". Many continue to say England lost out before a ball was even kicked in anger .... I think so, keeping Woy was just stupid after Euro's and so it proved.
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