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Post by Bojan Mackey on Jul 25, 2014 12:01:02 GMT
We're all probably overreacting a bit but can you blame us? We've gone from dismal pre-season dread at the upcoming season, worrying if our last minute forays in the transfer market will actually be any good or if they'll be overpriced journeymen, to signing players early, exploiting the foreign market, signing stars that have slightly lost their way a bit, Bojan, Arnautovic, Muniesa etc. all for figures that equate to about a quarter of a Dean Whitehead.
These are exciting times for Stoke City, We're starting to look up rather than down, and with that comes a positive reaction from the fanbase, so many years of being told we were the outsiders have worn thin and Mark Hughes has recognised this, and has re-ignited my passion for this great club, we all wanted better football, after an admittedly slow start, he delivered, we wanted players in their natural positions, he delivered, we wanted to be more adventurous away from home, he delivered a 4-1 dismantling of Villa, we wanted to look abroad for players, he delivered and is still doing so.
Now is the time people started to fear what we're capable of, rather than us fearing them, on our day we can give any team in this league a proper game, and if our signings gel properly, we could be looking at £15 million + players on our hands, all bought for a pittance, which also helps Coatesy's dream of us becoming self sufficient.
In short, yes some of us have probably set the boys up for a fall, myself included, but don't go shooting fellow fans down because they're excited about the progress their team is making, it's a new experience for some as I wasn't around when we were top dogs in the 70's so at the moment I'm revelling in it, we're signing players from Barcelona not Sunderlands reserves, we have a manager that recognises our teams strengths and plays to them, and even if we do make a slow start, last season has given me the confidence that Hughes can turn it around.
I see no reason why we can't finish in the top 10 again, we need to shake this scared of our own shadow mentality because we're a lot, lot better than some people give us credit for.
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Post by Block 22 on Jul 25, 2014 12:01:36 GMT
Oh and just another spanner in the works - Newcastle finished 5th in the 2011-2012 season
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Post by foxysgloves on Jul 25, 2014 12:03:16 GMT
I agree with all of that - But say we had spent 12m on Enna Valencia like West Ham have.. Does that mean we would have better chance of the top 6? He is also unproven in the premier league and could turn out to be a flop. That was my point. That's a fair point. My view is that we've signed well but there are question marks over virtually all the new signings and a repeat of last seasons placing with a cup run or two, maybe even a cup, would be great. Talk of top six is mentalist, fantasist nonsense IMO. We can certainly beat ANY of the so called top 6 on our day but to outperform them over a season is a whole different ball game.
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Jul 25, 2014 12:19:55 GMT
I hate you mickmillslovechild! You've taken me from jizzfest to fearing relegation! Bardsley (from should have been relegated Sunderlona) and Sidwell (from relegated Fulham)fucking hell we're doomed! It's hard for us Stokies to believe things will continue to go well, when we've had 150 years of disappointment. It's in the DNA to be cautious. I think we can look forward to a better second half of the season. An early Diouf goal would be nice!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2014 12:24:52 GMT
no...if we signed players like Lukaku for £20 mill, or Sturrdige for about £25 mill then we'd have a better chance of making top 6! the amount is irrelevant, whether they're unproven in the Prem isn't as important either but the simple fact is that the players we have bought are very good players for a club our size but neither bojan or Diouf would get into a top 6 side though which is why top 6 sides haven't bid for either of them. using Valencia as a comparison is a bit daft really as no-one is stupid enough to say they should now be pushing for a top 6 place simply because they've signed him as people on here are saying about us. the quality of players you need to get in to get into the top 6 cost far more than £12 mill in general (unless you're an already established top 6 side where the club itself has it's own pull so the fee doesn't have to be as high as players know it's a good team and they'll be playing in europe). 8th is a good ambition but it's about as high as we can go unless we spend tens of millions on players because the players that are the quality to break a smaller Prem club into the top 6 for the first time cost that much when we have no history of top 6 to show them and no promise of european football to give them. Either my point making is attrocious or you're not understanding what I'm trying to say. If the point was - I don't think we'll achieve top 6 by signing Diouf etc etc that would have been valid. But to say because we've spent nothing is stupid. We could've got messi on a free i haven't misunderstood at all and think your point making is actually ok......i addressed your point re: just because of the amount of money spent means nothing in itself (and agree with that...Borini for £14 mill isn't going to break Sunderland into the top 6 either) and explained that the only reason the amount of money has a bearing is that for a top 6 quality player the amount of money needed is more than what we've spent because that's the only way a club like ours could get a player good enough to break us into the top 6 is all.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2014 12:32:05 GMT
I hate you mickmillslovechild! You've taken me from jizzfest to fearing relegation! Bardsley (from should have been relegated Sunderlona) and Sidwell (from relegated Fulham)fucking hell we're doomed! It's hard for us Stokies to believe things will continue to go well, when we've had 150 years of disappointment. It's in the DNA to be cautious. I think we can look forward to a better second half of the season. An early Diouf goal would be nice! don't get me wrong i'm excited about what's happening at the club as the next man, i'm just trying to temper it with realism is all. the 2 "star" signings (Diouf and Bojan) are complete unknown quantities really and i don't see why people are getting all caught up in this "He played for Barca so must be our saviour and get us into the top 6" nonsense. as i said earlier, if he was the same player now that he was back in his Barca days then we'd never have been able to sign him full stop. i genuinely hope they will be great signings and if Bojan even has a glimmer of what he had back in his Barca days then for us he'll be a great player but there's a huge, huge leap between players being good for a club like us and us becoming a top 6 side because of them! finishing 8th is a realistic expectation but the difference between 8th and top 6 is huge in this league
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Jul 25, 2014 12:38:04 GMT
I hate you mickmillslovechild! You've taken me from jizzfest to fearing relegation! Bardsley (from should have been relegated Sunderlona) and Sidwell (from relegated Fulham)fucking hell we're doomed! It's hard for us Stokies to believe things will continue to go well, when we've had 150 years of disappointment. It's in the DNA to be cautious. I think we can look forward to a better second half of the season. An early Diouf goal would be nice! don't get me wrong i'm excited about what's happening at the club as the next man, i'm just trying to temper it with realism is all. the 2 "star" signings (Diouf and Bojan) are complete unknown quantities really and i don't see why people are getting all caught up in this "He played for Barca so must be our saviour and get us into the top 6" nonsense. as i said earlier, if he was the same player now that he was back in his Barca days then we'd never have been able to sign him full stop. i genuinely hope they will be great signings and if Bojan even has a glimmer of what he had back in his Barca days then for us he'll be a great player but there's a huge, huge leap between players being good for a club like us and us becoming a top 6 side because of them! finishing 8th is a realistic expectation but the difference between 8th and top 6 is huge in this league I know mate! My worry about Bojan is the goals he seems to score come from people playing him in. Hopefully, with his signing, Arnie will have someone on a similar wavelength. If those two click it could be spectacular! As you say let's hope.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2014 12:48:06 GMT
don't get me wrong i'm excited about what's happening at the club as the next man, i'm just trying to temper it with realism is all. the 2 "star" signings (Diouf and Bojan) are complete unknown quantities really and i don't see why people are getting all caught up in this "He played for Barca so must be our saviour and get us into the top 6" nonsense. as i said earlier, if he was the same player now that he was back in his Barca days then we'd never have been able to sign him full stop. i genuinely hope they will be great signings and if Bojan even has a glimmer of what he had back in his Barca days then for us he'll be a great player but there's a huge, huge leap between players being good for a club like us and us becoming a top 6 side because of them! finishing 8th is a realistic expectation but the difference between 8th and top 6 is huge in this league I know mate! My worry about Bojan is the goals he seems to score come from people playing him in. Hopefully, with his signing, Arnie will have someone on a similar wavelength. If those two click it could be spectacular! As you say let's hope. the idea of Odemwingie, Bojan and Arnie in behind Diouf is a bit stiffy inducing admittedly
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2014 12:51:29 GMT
Expectation levels are stratospheric. That will almost certainly lead to disappointment. Objective 1 = 40 points. It was always thus.
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Post by mickstupp on Jul 25, 2014 12:52:04 GMT
We finished the season on a high and the early transfer dealing look good so expectations are always going to be on a high for a lot of people. I do share some of the concerns that we may be setting ourselves up for a disappointment if we don't keep a level head. Then when I feel in a more confident mood I look at Everton and see what they have achieved with IMHO a squad at best no better than ours. Lukaku and Deulofeu were stand out players for them last season, could Diouf and Bojan do that for us? Player for player how many of their other first eleven would we swap. On top of that they have spent nothing, in fact they have sold more than they have spent in each of the last 5 seasons and they finished 5th last season so it is possible to break into the magical top 6 without spending big. Anyway back to being cautious and target 40 points!!
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Post by thevoid on Jul 25, 2014 13:11:05 GMT
Expectation levels are stratospheric. That will almost certainly lead to disappointment. Objective 1 = 40 points. It was always thus. Nothing wrong with having the 40 point minimum target- but at least now we seem capable of reaching that target a bit earlier rather than limping over the line mid-April after a series of catatonia-inducing 0-0 draws. The feel good factor is back, that's the main thing. The start of the season should be like this, rather than as mouthwatering as a Tramadol sandwich. Perhaps our steak and chips has now got a bit of zingy sauce to go with it?
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Post by Block 22 on Jul 25, 2014 13:12:55 GMT
don't get me wrong i'm excited about what's happening at the club as the next man, i'm just trying to temper it with realism is all. the 2 "star" signings (Diouf and Bojan) are complete unknown quantities really and i don't see why people are getting all caught up in this "He played for Barca so must be our saviour and get us into the top 6" nonsense. as i said earlier, if he was the same player now that he was back in his Barca days then we'd never have been able to sign him full stop. i genuinely hope they will be great signings and if Bojan even has a glimmer of what he had back in his Barca days then for us he'll be a great player but there's a huge, huge leap between players being good for a club like us and us becoming a top 6 side because of them! finishing 8th is a realistic expectation but the difference between 8th and top 6 is huge in this league I know mate! My worry about Bojan is the goals he seems to score come from people playing him in. Hopefully, with his signing, Arnie will have someone on a similar wavelength. If those two click it could be spectacular! As you say let's hope. I think Ireland will be something like back to his best next season with people making runs in front of him (Bojan and Diouf)
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Post by nott1 on Jul 25, 2014 13:32:39 GMT
Bojan got two in training.......make that top four!
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Post by coates on Jul 25, 2014 13:34:13 GMT
anything above the bottom three is a good season.
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Post by andrewguk on Jul 25, 2014 14:24:04 GMT
anything above the bottom three is a good season. I hope this season we finish with a positive goal difference
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Post by sheikhmomo on Jul 25, 2014 14:43:41 GMT
Expectation levels are stratospheric. That will almost certainly lead to disappointment. Objective 1 = 40 points. It was always thus. Nothing wrong with having the 40 point minimum target- but at least now we seem capable of reaching that target a bit earlier rather than limping over the line mid-April after a series of catatonia-inducing 0-0 draws. The feel good factor is back, that's the main thing. The start of the season should be like this, rather than as mouthwatering as a Tramadol sandwich. Perhaps our steak and chips has now got a bit of zingy sauce to go with it? You don't feel like some people are going over the top. Just a bit?
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Post by thedeadlyshart on Jul 25, 2014 16:37:53 GMT
I've feared relegation at the beginning of every season we've had in the premier league, this one will be no different. However, should we actually drop this season I would be far more surprised than if we had fallen last season.
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Post by foxysgloves on Jul 25, 2014 16:42:49 GMT
I know mate! My worry about Bojan is the goals he seems to score come from people playing him in. Hopefully, with his signing, Arnie will have someone on a similar wavelength. If those two click it could be spectacular! As you say let's hope. the idea of Odemwingie, Bojan and Arnie in behind Diouf is a bit stiffy inducing admittedly Maybe....what about when we don't have the ball though??
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Jul 25, 2014 16:46:06 GMT
the idea of Odemwingie, Bojan and Arnie in behind Diouf is a bit stiffy inducing admittedly Maybe....what about when we don't have the ball though?? The 'bit stiffy' will go a bit floppy! We are at our most dangerous when they have the ball, as soon as the mighty Shawcross wins it back, it's bang bang bang goal! It could be one hell of an exciting ride.
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Post by foxysgloves on Jul 25, 2014 16:55:02 GMT
Maybe....what about when we don't have the ball though?? The 'bit stiffy' will go a bit floppy! We are at our most dangerous when they have the ball, as soon as the mighty Shawcross wins it back, it's bang bang bang goal! It could be one hell of an exciting ride. It sure could. Semis all the way!!!
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Post by happycarrot on Jul 25, 2014 17:06:14 GMT
Unrealistic expectations like this, is my only worry. I don't see it as unrealistic. We finished 9th last year and now we have several upgrades. 6th it is! Doesn't mean a thing unless we win games. Top 6 is nonsense. Top 10 would be another great achievement
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Post by boskampsflaps on Jul 25, 2014 17:08:36 GMT
the idea of Odemwingie, Bojan and Arnie in behind Diouf is a bit stiffy inducing admittedly Maybe....what about when we don't have the ball though?? You can get a bit stiffy over seeing Whelan and N'Zonzi dominating the midfield.
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Post by foxysgloves on Jul 25, 2014 17:10:30 GMT
Maybe....what about when we don't have the ball though?? You can get a bit stiffy over seeing Whelan and N'Zonzi dominating the midfield. This is getting too weird for me so I'll just agree with you!!
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Post by boskampsflaps on Jul 25, 2014 17:13:11 GMT
You can get a bit stiffy over seeing Whelan and N'Zonzi dominating the midfield. This is getting too weird for me so I'll just agree with you!! safest thing to do
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Post by thevoid on Jul 26, 2014 0:05:58 GMT
Nothing wrong with having the 40 point minimum target- but at least now we seem capable of reaching that target a bit earlier rather than limping over the line mid-April after a series of catatonia-inducing 0-0 draws. The feel good factor is back, that's the main thing. The start of the season should be like this, rather than as mouthwatering as a Tramadol sandwich. Perhaps our steak and chips has now got a bit of zingy sauce to go with it? You don't feel like some people are going over the top. Just a bit? Anyone who expects a top 6 finish I'll put down to: a) high jinx b) lack of a straightjacket.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2014 1:06:43 GMT
Fuck it I say.
There's always a team who throws up a surprise.
Swansea, Southampton, Castle, west Brom have all done it.
It's our turn now, and it's our turn to do it better.
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Post by cognacsmoker on Jul 26, 2014 7:01:32 GMT
Last season we had freak conditions; so many teams were panic-buying and changing managers, and spent most of last season in disarray. I would expect better organisation for the most part this season, so 8th place will be harder fought. Don't forget that we were helped massively by Newcastle just capitulating since January!
Still think we're better placed than most though!
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