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Post by Gods on Jun 17, 2014 18:20:44 GMT
If you say that because you think Bardsley has Cameron's place in the bag then you are either over rating Bardsley or under rating Cameron or both or you just think that having persuaded Coates to part with the Bardsley money then Hughes will feel he has to play him. Have you seen a lot of Bardsley, gods? From what I've seen he's just as good going forward, has a cracking shot on him and is better defensively as well. No, I have never let any serious analysis get in the way of one of my opinions I based it largely on what Sunderland fans say about him (yes I know Danny Collins was twice their player of the season!) and the fact that he looks like a short, stocky bloke to me and I find it almost impossible to imagine him getting up and down with that build too many times in 90 minutes, he'll be blowing out of his arse!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2014 18:21:19 GMT
Back to the OP....
Congratulations to Cameron on a man of the match performance on the biggest footballing stage of all, the world cup.
You've done us proud Geoff.
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Post by Gods on Jun 17, 2014 18:22:48 GMT
4 right backs that all could play is a bit too much. We need 2. It's a strange situation as things stand, it's going to be interesting to see how it plays out. Shotton is a goner (if someone will have him). Bardsley is here for the medium term and why offer Wilko a new contract if you aren't going to use him even as back up? Now we might do but it'll be bloody strange and wholly unnecessary. I think we offered Wilko a new contract just before Bardsley became available.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2014 18:22:59 GMT
Have you seen a lot of Bardsley, gods? From what I've seen he's just as good going forward, has a cracking shot on him and is better defensively as well. No, I have never let any serious analysis get in the way of one of my opinions I based it largely on what Sunderland fans say about him (yes I know Danny Collins was twice their player of the season!) and the fact that he looks like a short, stocky bloke to me and I find it almost impossible to imagine him getting up and down with that build too many times in 90 minutes, he'll be blowing out of his arse! Getting up and down is one of his strengths, from what I've seen.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 17, 2014 18:23:26 GMT
4 right backs that all could play is a bit too much. We need 2. It's a strange situation as things stand, it's going to be interesting to see how it plays out. Shotton is a goner (if someone will have him). Bardsley is here for the medium term and why offer Wilko a new contract if you aren't going to use him even as back up? Now we might do but it'll be bloody strange and wholly unnecessary. I think we offered Wilko a new contract just before Bardsley became available. He's been available since January............ We bid for him then too!
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Post by Gods on Jun 17, 2014 18:26:46 GMT
No, I have never let any serious analysis get in the way of one of my opinions I based it largely on what Sunderland fans say about him (yes I know Danny Collins was twice their player of the season!) and the fact that he looks like a short, stocky bloke to me and I find it almost impossible to imagine him getting up and down with that build too many times in 90 minutes, he'll be blowing out of his arse! Getting up and down is one of his strengths, from what I've seen. From whoscored.com: Phil Bardsley's Characteristics + Strengths Dribbling Strong Blocking the ball Strong - Weaknesses Crossing Weak Passing Weak Holding on to the ball Weak Discipline Weak mmm...otherwise ok though And this: Phil Bardsley's Style of Play Indirect set-piece threat Likes to play long balls Plays the ball off the ground often © WhoScored.com * Strengths, weaknesses and style of play are calculated from player statistics in domestic league games this season and last
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jun 17, 2014 18:27:22 GMT
4 right backs that all could play is a bit too much. We need 2. It's a strange situation as things stand, it's going to be interesting to see how it plays out. Shotton is a goner (if someone will have him). Bardsley is here for the medium term and why offer Wilko a new contract if you aren't going to use him even as back up? Now we might do but it'll be bloody strange and wholly unnecessary. I think we offered Wilko a new contract just before Bardsley became available.
So we only decided that we needed to bring in a right back this summer because Bardsley became available?
Hughes would have identified the positions that he thought needed addressing ages ago and I'm pretty sure we would have been aware when Bardsley's contract at Sunderland was about to end.
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Post by metalhead on Jun 17, 2014 18:28:38 GMT
It's embarrassing to think that every thread praising Geoff Cameron turns into a 'we need a new right back thread'. The guy was top class last night. Let him have his day!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2014 18:33:04 GMT
It's embarrassing to think that every thread praising Geoff Cameron turns into a 'we need a new right back thread'. The guy was top class last night. Let him have his day! The OP discusses him at rb though. So it's natural that it's part of the discussion. I thought he was excellent last night and did us proud.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 17, 2014 18:34:15 GMT
It's embarrassing to think that every thread praising Geoff Cameron turns into a 'we need a new right back thread'. The guy was top class last night. Let him have his day! We've signed Bardsley and I still think we need a new fooking right back!
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Post by Gods on Jun 17, 2014 18:35:02 GMT
I think we offered Wilko a new contract just before Bardsley became available.
So we only decided that we needed to bring in a right back this summer because Bardsley became available?
Hughes would have identified the positions that he thought needed addressing ages ago and I'm pretty sure we would have been aware when Bardsley's contract at Sunderland was about to end.
You tell me, I'm just pointing out the order of events.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Jun 17, 2014 18:37:53 GMT
Well done Geoff Cameron. I was only joking with my initial comments on the opening page.
I only saw the first 20 minutes of the game before going to bed but if Geoff did well, then I'm absolutely delighted for him.
It is amazing to hear commentators describe "Asmir Begovic of Stoke City", "Stoke City's Peter Odemwingie" and "Geoff "he was Stoke City's player of the first half of the season from an unfamiliar right back position" Cameron.
It is not so good to hear "and a red card to Wilson Palacios of Stoke City".
If Geoff played well, then a hearty well done to the man from the US of A.
Did he play centre half or right back?
Was Asamoah Gyan any good?
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jun 17, 2014 18:38:36 GMT
So we only decided that we needed to bring in a right back this summer because Bardsley became available?
Hughes would have identified the positions that he thought needed addressing ages ago and I'm pretty sure we would have been aware when Bardsley's contract at Sunderland was about to end.
You tell me, I'm just pointing out the order of events.
You were implying that we wouldn't have given Wilko a new contract if we knew Bardsley was going to become available - if you weren't implying that, why mention the sequence of events?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 17, 2014 18:43:06 GMT
As I've said though, the order of events are bullshit! He's been available to sign on a free since February and we bid for him in January.
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Post by kurt on Jun 17, 2014 18:47:06 GMT
Good News ....i like Cameron and i often don't understand that many people criticize him so harshly
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Post by stokemanusa on Jun 17, 2014 18:55:03 GMT
Nice to see some praise for the lad on here for once. Shocking. A versatile international who can play 3 positions for Stoke as he's shown by playing at RB all but one game last season. He's a "CB" by trade but can finish, dribble and get down the line... He can play CDM, RB and CB... He can put a gem of a cross in once in a blue moon and give Stoke his all. Yet some still don't want him here... is it because he uses the outside of his foot every now and again? I know it's foriegn for a CB to do that and it pisses me off at times too but you don't know what you have till it's gone. Excellent player to have. Not surprised by his performance at the WC at all.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 17, 2014 18:58:01 GMT
Who wants him gone?
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Post by Gods on Jun 17, 2014 18:58:40 GMT
You tell me, I'm just pointing out the order of events.
You were implying that we wouldn't have given Wilko a new contract if we knew Bardsley was going to become available - if you weren't implying that, why mention the sequence of events?
Yes I was. My supposition is that perhaps the Bardsley signing was impetuous, he came unexpectedly available and we snapped him up. I have no idea in practice if that was the case of course. What is your rationale as to why we signed him so soon after offering Wilko a new contract when we already had Cameron? It may well be better than mine and if it is I'll gladly take it on board!
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Post by Gods on Jun 17, 2014 18:59:43 GMT
Good News ....i like Cameron and i often don't understand that many people criticize him so harshly You're right to like him because he is good
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 17, 2014 19:02:26 GMT
You were implying that we wouldn't have given Wilko a new contract if we knew Bardsley was going to become available - if you weren't implying that, why mention the sequence of events?
Yes I was. My supposition is that perhaps the Bardsley signing was impetuous, he came unexpectedly available and we snapped him up. I have no idea in practice if that was the case of course. What is your rationale as to why we signed him so soon after offering Wilko a new contract when we already had Cameron? It may well be better than mine and if it is I'll gladly take it on board! How was he unexpectedly available? He was available on a free since February, we would have known that because we bid for him in January on the cheap!
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Post by stokemanusa on Jun 17, 2014 19:03:44 GMT
Loads on here throughout last season... Did you miss that or just naive to the Cameron hate?
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jun 17, 2014 19:06:03 GMT
You were implying that we wouldn't have given Wilko a new contract if we knew Bardsley was going to become available - if you weren't implying that, why mention the sequence of events?
Yes I was. My supposition is that perhaps the Bardsley signing was impetuous, he came unexpectedly available and we snapped him up. I have no idea in practice if that was the case of course. What is your rationale as to why we signed him so soon after offering Wilko a new contract when we already had Cameron? It may well be better than mine and if it is I'll gladly take it on board!
I think the rationale that we only signed Bardsley because he suddenly became available unexpectedly doesn't make any sense.
As I already said, Hughes would have identified the positions that needed addressing ages ago, we would have been completely aware that Bardsley's contract was about to end at Sunderland and as Bayern has already said we tried to sign him in January, at a point when Cameron had apparently just had a blinding first half to the season.
The most logical conclusion is that Hughes signed Bardsley and gave Wilko a new contract because he doesn't see Cameron as first or second choice right back next season, doesn't mean I'm right but at the moment there isn't any other scenario that is more logical.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 17, 2014 19:07:47 GMT
Loads on here throughout last season... Did you miss that or just naive to the Cameron hate? Don't think many wanted him gone tbh! Just not in the team at right back.
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Post by stokemanusa on Jun 17, 2014 19:11:55 GMT
Loads on here throughout last season... Did you miss that or just naive to the Cameron hate? Don't think many wanted him gone tbh! Just not in the team at right back. That's not what I remember seeing after every game... Although, even if Geoff becomes ryan's partner at CB this next season with all the unknowns with Huth's knee in taters and now Bardsley. I wouldn't be surprised if he's the scapegoat again on here, it's become a norm.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 17, 2014 19:13:48 GMT
Don't think many wanted him gone tbh! Just not in the team at right back. That's not what I remember seeing after every game... Although, even if Geoff becomes ryan's partner at CB this next season with all the unknowns with Huth's knee in taters and now Bardsley. I wouldn't be surprised if he's the scapegoat again on here, it's become a norm. You've got a shit memory then! Geoff should be nowhere playing centre half, he's 5th choice as it stands-Shawcross, Huth, Wilson, Muniesa....Geoff. And we want Lescott!
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jun 17, 2014 19:18:37 GMT
Don't think many wanted him gone tbh! Just not in the team at right back. That's not what I remember seeing after every game... Although, even if Geoff becomes ryan's partner at CB this next season with all the unknowns with Huth's knee in taters and now Bardsley. I wouldn't be surprised if he's the scapegoat again on here, it's become a norm.
If Cameron plays regularly at centre back next season and regularly plays well, I'm equally convinced that he won't get criticised.
I think it's pretty rare for players to be playing well regularly but for them to still get criticised - maybe Whelan is the exception.
I remember at the start of last season, a lot of people were critical of Cameron at right back, then he went through a good run of games there and many of the people who had been criticising him, held their hands up and said maybe they'd actually got it wrong, just a pity that he went back to not being very good there in the second half of the season.
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Post by stokemanusa on Jun 17, 2014 19:19:07 GMT
That's not what I remember seeing after every game... Although, even if Geoff becomes ryan's partner at CB this next season with all the unknowns with Huth's knee in taters and now Bardsley. I wouldn't be surprised if he's the scapegoat again on here, it's become a norm. You've got a shit memory then! Geoff should be nowhere playing centre half, he's 5th choice as it stands-Shawcross, Huth, Wilson, Muniesa....Geoff. And we want Lescott! In your eyes. Huth's knees are gone, I don't see him starting unless he goes on a terminator rehab stint in the Austrian mountains. I can see Wilson start but give it a week for him to fuck it up and the Oatcake slag him off and with Bardsley possibly starting at RB. You got Geoff and Muni and Wilson to choose from... Lescott? naw I'd be surprised if we landed him. Hughes will mostly use Wilson and Geoff I reckon with Muni a third option.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 17, 2014 19:25:43 GMT
You've got a shit memory then! Geoff should be nowhere playing centre half, he's 5th choice as it stands-Shawcross, Huth, Wilson, Muniesa....Geoff. And we want Lescott! In your eyes. Huth's knees are gone, I don't see him starting unless he goes on a terminator rehab stint in the Austrian mountains. I can see Wilson start but give it a week for him to fuck it up and the Oatcake slag him off and with Bardsley possibly starting at RB. You got Geoff and Muni and Wilson to choose from... Lescott? naw I'd be surprised if we landed him. Hughes will mostly use Wilson and Geoff I reckon with Muni a third option. He's been training this summer already. I don't think Wilson will be starting, I think it'll be Huth or Lescott. Wilson and Cameron very similar-dodgy. Muni is better than the both of them, by far.
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Post by mrpickles on Jun 17, 2014 19:26:38 GMT
The Geoff groupies are a right emotional bunch aren't they? I'm delighted he played well last night, and I'm more than willing to reserve my judgment on Geoff 'the centre half' and Geoff 'the central midfielder' until I've seen more of him in those positions. I have however, seen enough of Geoff 'the right back' to know that I'll self harm if he plays there at all next season.
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Post by stokemanusa on Jun 17, 2014 19:30:04 GMT
That's not what I remember seeing after every game... Although, even if Geoff becomes ryan's partner at CB this next season with all the unknowns with Huth's knee in taters and now Bardsley. I wouldn't be surprised if he's the scapegoat again on here, it's become a norm.
If Cameron plays regularly at centre back next season and regularly plays well, I'm equally convinced that he won't get criticised.
I think it's pretty rare for players to be playing well regularly but for them to still get criticised - maybe Whelan is the exception.
I remember at the start of last season, a lot of people were critical of Cameron at right back, then he went through a good run of games there and many of the people who had been criticising him, held their hands up and said maybe they'd actually got it wrong, just a pity that he went back to not being very good there in the second half of the season.
Well for not playing your main position most of the season I thought he did better than expected and excelled at times especially in the first half of the season. In the second half of the season the fitness level dropped off and it showed with decision making. With Bardsley as either cover or a another starter to rotate at RB. I don't stoke will have a problem with cover at the back like we had with Wilko and shotton coming in to attempt to play the modern game. I think Whelan got more praise than stick this season than any other infact, I praised him so much it was weird. It was the style that suited him unlike hoofball. We had a whelan is god thread after everymatch by the usual suspects and for the most part it was due. We equaly had the Geoff cameron or Wilson is at fault with Walters in there aswell. So I don't know where your getting that from. Infact a few of our hidden gems that made our season this year got more stick, ie Arnie and Oussama, Wilson, Geoff, Ireland/Adam that combo for most of the season at different times just some more than others... Geoff though was easily singled out as was Wilson for being defensive players with more on their plate. There is this idea that the second half of the season Geoff completely disappeared, he had a few great games aswell in the second half of the season and was equally bad at times but for playing every game at RB as a CB by trade it was a commendable defensive performance by anyone in this league.
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