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Palacios
Nov 3, 2013 22:05:05 GMT
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Post by borat on Nov 3, 2013 22:05:05 GMT
I thought he was better than Whelan and we looked a better side with him and Assaidi on. This.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2013 22:35:17 GMT
I see things totally differently. We were much better second half and had the ball in the final third far more often than we did in the first half when we were, by and large, utterly dreadful. I can see this isn't going to go very well. I just felt that we seemed to have a clear gameplan early on and it seemed to be working - they were pinned back and although one was admittedly a very flukey goal, we could easily have been two up after ten minutes. After that we faded and got progressively worse, in my opinion. In the first half we forced them to go long fairly frequently and won the second ball more often than not. In the second half we were second to everything and a number of players just gave up. Whelan was utter garbage. I can't remember the last time he wasn't. Hyperbole. I'll get absolutely slated for this but I thought Whelan yesterday was better than either of the Wilsons have been all season. Unlike Palacios, for example, he wasn't strolling/squatting about the place pretending to be interested and then giving the ball away. Again I saw it completely differently. For most of the first half they were by far the better side and looked the more likely - it was a better of when they equalised, not if. They barely had a sniff second half while we kept the ball up their end a lot, had one really good chance and another couple of decentish half-chances and finished the game the stronger. Palacios kept the ball better than Whelan I thought. He had more of the ball and completed more passes.
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Post by Olgrligm on Nov 3, 2013 22:51:53 GMT
I can see this isn't going to go very well. I just felt that we seemed to have a clear gameplan early on and it seemed to be working - they were pinned back and although one was admittedly a very flukey goal, we could easily have been two up after ten minutes. After that we faded and got progressively worse, in my opinion. In the first half we forced them to go long fairly frequently and won the second ball more often than not. In the second half we were second to everything and a number of players just gave up. Hyperbole. I'll get absolutely slated for this but I thought Whelan yesterday was better than either of the Wilsons have been all season. Unlike Palacios, for example, he wasn't strolling/squatting about the place pretending to be interested and then giving the ball away. Again I saw it completely differently. For most of the first half they were by far the better side and looked the more likely - it was a better of when they equalised, not if. They barely had a sniff second half while we kept the ball up their end a lot, had one really good chance and another couple of decentish half-chances and finished the game the stronger. Palacios kept the ball better than Whelan I thought. He had more of the ball and completed more passes. I can remember several incidents involving Palacios where he had the ball just inside our half and casually rolled it along the floor right into the path of an unrushing Southampton player, before doing his usual routine of squatting ineffectively. It wasn't just bad, it was implausibly bad, the sort of stuff you don't expect to see more than once a game at any professional level. I didn't see Whelan routinely give it away in dangerous areas like that, but he did seem to win the ball back a fair bit and put in a decent enough disciplined performance - better than what we've been seeing anyway. Obviously, it's still an area that needs massive improvement and I want a new player in in January, but I'd play Whelan again next week. As for the second half, it just left me dispirited and really, they should have won it at the death on one of the rare occasions when the officials did us a favour. I just didn't think we looked like making a breakthrough at any time and the midfield was lost. I'm going to give up here though because I'm fairly sure we're not going to agree on it.
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Palacios
Nov 3, 2013 23:06:13 GMT
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Post by colstokie62 on Nov 3, 2013 23:06:13 GMT
I thought we were great for the first quarter of the match, awful in the second. Then after halftime we were pretty good. So, better as a whole in the second half, but more likely to score in the first 20 minutes or so. We were better in the last 20 mins when arnie moved played some lovely passes out wide
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2013 23:08:31 GMT
I thought Palacios tried to move the ball quickly and close down players quickly whereas Whelan looked second to everything and unsure of what his job was. And that's speaking as someone who likes Whelan and would sell Palacios for a packet of Space Raiders.
Other than the free kick that hit the roof of the net, did Southampton have a chance worthy of the name second half?
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Post by Olgrligm on Nov 3, 2013 23:12:57 GMT
I thought Palacios tried to move the ball quickly and close down players quickly whereas Whelan looked second to everything and unsure of what his job was. And that's speaking as someone who likes Whelan and would sell Palacios for a packet of Space Raiders. Other than the free kick that hit the roof of the net, did Southampton have a chance worthy of the name second half? The 100% not actually offside 1-on-1 that looked suspiciously like Lambert fouled Ryan was one.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2013 23:35:11 GMT
I thought Palacios tried to move the ball quickly and close down players quickly whereas Whelan looked second to everything and unsure of what his job was. And that's speaking as someone who likes Whelan and would sell Palacios for a packet of Space Raiders. Other than the free kick that hit the roof of the net, did Southampton have a chance worthy of the name second half? The 100% not actually offside 1-on-1 that looked suspiciously like Lambert fouled Ryan was one. Really? We're counting shots where the flag's gone up before he's even hit it as proper chances now? Come on MD. It was a clear foul on Ryan regardless and offside or not the flag went up. Hardly a let-off.
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Post by stokemanusa on Nov 4, 2013 3:10:46 GMT
I thought Palacios tried to move the ball quickly and close down players quickly whereas Whelan looked second to everything and unsure of what his job was. And that's speaking as someone who likes Whelan and would sell Palacios for a packet of Space Raiders. Other than the free kick that hit the roof of the net, did Southampton have a chance worthy of the name second half? Completely agree, whelan is our worst midfielder under pressure he looks like a lost child in this system Hughes employs and is a complete liability. We looked much better with palacios who is better on the ball than whelan. I also think whelan / nzonzi just don't meld together and when nzonzi is a lasy twat whelan being closed down fast by a Southampton press is why we suffered in the midfield... It's time to move whelan on in all honesty and for that matter palacios, wilson, walters and adam should be right behind him... Useless lot in midfield we have. Need to make changes in Jan.
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Palacios
Nov 4, 2013 10:53:09 GMT
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Post by onionman on Nov 4, 2013 10:53:09 GMT
I thought Palacios tried to move the ball quickly and close down players quickly whereas Whelan looked second to everything and unsure of what his job was. And that's speaking as someone who likes Whelan and would sell Palacios for a packet of Space Raiders. Other than the free kick that hit the roof of the net, did Southampton have a chance worthy of the name second half? How many of the Space Raiders does Palacios get as a loyal bonus though? We could end up with next to nothing if your suggested deal goes through.
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Post by pez75 on Nov 4, 2013 11:15:38 GMT
Palacios was poor second half but he has had a couple of good games this season, recently at ManUre for example. Still not convinced but I am willing to withhold my verdict for the time being.
Whelan on the other hand is a liability and should not be allowed near the first 11 ever again. He is too slow, too negative and just not compatible with how we are trying to play. His second touch is a yellow card.
Palacios with both legs amputated would still be a better player than Whelan.
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Post by redstriper on Nov 4, 2013 11:20:47 GMT
I thought he was better than Whelan and we looked a better side with him and Assaidi on. Hmm, that could be down to Assaidi, who should start very week imo. It's like giving the credit to Pericard for an improved showing if we brought Ronaldo on at the same time
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Post by nott1 on Nov 4, 2013 12:53:23 GMT
Hes a terrible woeful excuse for a player. For some reason certain people think he will come good one day..I can assure you he wont. He just does a lazy midfield job i.e short easy passes and points around alot. As someone said on another thread "hes shitter than shit" Quite an apt description of him I think. EXACTLY!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2013 13:02:58 GMT
I thought he was better than Whelan and we looked a better side with him and Assaidi on. Hmm, that could be down to Assaidi, who should start very week imo. It's like giving the credit to Pericard for an improved showing if we brought Ronaldo on at the same time I thought they both played well. Palacios gave them less space than Whelan, he seemed to have finally worked out that you have to do work off the ball as well.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2013 17:43:37 GMT
I haven't seen a thread on him on here. Surely he'll never put a Stoke shirt on again? Simply an appalling cameo, beyond hopeless. You were wincing every time he went near the ball since he would almost immediately lay it off three yards to a Southampton player. He's been roundly slated on here, but bringing him on for Whelan completely surrendered the midfield battle. He is our worst player by a mile I hear people praising him and I rub my eyes waiting for the magic genie to reveal all I only see a player who has - No desire No,heart Loses possession Doesn't chase back to win ball he has just lost Loses the player he is supposed to be marking When he gets the ball he cant wait to get rid of it ( usually backwards,sideways or to an opposing player Am I missing something with this player ? He is absolute bollocks as far as im concerned and he was again when he come on in the second half on Saturday
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Post by harrysburrow on Nov 4, 2013 19:53:14 GMT
I haven't seen a thread on him on here. Surely he'll never put a Stoke shirt on again? Simply an appalling cameo, beyond hopeless. You were wincing every time he went near the ball since he would almost immediately lay it off three yards to a Southampton player. He's been roundly slated on here, but bringing him on for Whelan completely surrendered the midfield battle. He is our worst player by a mile I hear people praising him and I rub my eyes waiting for the magic genie to reveal all I only see a player who has - No desire No,heart Loses possession Doesn't chase back to win ball he has just lost Loses the player he is supposed to be marking When he gets the ball he cant wait to get rid of it ( usually backwards,sideways or to an opposing player Am I missing something with this player ? He is absolute bollocks as far as im concerned and he was again when he come on in the second half on Saturday You've just printed out his CV. Who's going to take him off our hands? Utterly disastrous signing. Sparky must be looking at the midfield and thinking where do I go? Charlie's fat, Glen's crap and Steven's French. Oh, and Kenwyne's bone, John's crap and Peter's........ a 6ft 7inch dwarf.
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Post by Billybigbollox on Nov 4, 2013 19:53:36 GMT
I haven't seen a thread on him on here. Surely he'll never put a Stoke shirt on again? Simply an appalling cameo, beyond hopeless. You were wincing every time he went near the ball since he would almost immediately lay it off three yards to a Southampton player. He's been roundly slated on here, but bringing him on for Whelan completely surrendered the midfield battle. He is our worst player by a mile I hear people praising him and I rub my eyes waiting for the magic genie to reveal all I only see a player who has - No desire No,heart Loses possession Doesn't chase back to win ball he has just lost Loses the player he is supposed to be marking When he gets the ball he cant wait to get rid of it ( usually backwards,sideways or to an opposing player Am I missing something with this player ? He is absolute bollocks as far as im concerned and he was again when he come on in the second half on Saturday Yes sadly he is shite. I think he and Adam both look as though they could be red carded every time they play, but I'd prefer Charlie over Palacios any day. Roll on January, when we may see some improvement. Let's just hope we don't need to sell before we buy, or we'll be well and truly fucked. No one wanted our outcasts in the summer, so I can't see them being on anyone's Christmas list.
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Palacios
Nov 4, 2013 21:24:52 GMT
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Post by wearestoke80 on Nov 4, 2013 21:24:52 GMT
He is our worst player by a mile I hear people praising him and I rub my eyes waiting for the magic genie to reveal all I only see a player who has - No desire No,heart Loses possession Doesn't chase back to win ball he has just lost Loses the player he is supposed to be marking When he gets the ball he cant wait to get rid of it ( usually backwards,sideways or to an opposing player Am I missing something with this player ? He is absolute bollocks as far as im concerned and he was again when he come on in the second half on Saturday Yes sadly he is shite. I think he and Adam both look as though they could be red carded every time they play, but I'd prefer Charlie over Palacios any day. Roll on January, when we may see some improvement. Let's just hope we don't need to sell before we buy, or we'll be well and truly fucked. No one wanted our outcasts in the summer, so I can't see them being on anyone's Christmas list. Hull wanted PalacIos but Hughes said he wanted him "he'll be like a new signing" We didn't have to resign Pennant but we did. Not sure how true but we had an offer for Jones but wanted more money to release him.
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Palacios
Nov 4, 2013 21:36:14 GMT
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Post by stokiejoe on Nov 4, 2013 21:36:14 GMT
Our need to get the midfield right is as urgent as a striker who can score. Same problem as far as I can see. Defence and attack rely on the midfield.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2013 21:38:30 GMT
Yes sadly he is shite. I think he and Adam both look as though they could be red carded every time they play, but I'd prefer Charlie over Palacios any day. Roll on January, when we may see some improvement. Let's just hope we don't need to sell before we buy, or we'll be well and truly fucked. No one wanted our outcasts in the summer, so I can't see them being on anyone's Christmas list. Hull wanted PalacIos but Hughes said he wanted him "he'll be like a new signing" We didn't have to resign Pennant but we did. Not sure how true but we had an offer for Jones but wanted more money to release him. Hull never made a genuine offer as far as we know though. If they had,he'd have been off, surely?
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Palacios
Nov 4, 2013 21:57:26 GMT
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Post by Ron on Nov 4, 2013 21:57:26 GMT
Whelan ain't a world beater but anyone who thinks that palacios is a better option is clearly on something, the man was an utter disgrace. One of the worst showings by an individual in red and white in the prem years. I was no tp fan, but he was right about this waster. Right because he spent £6M on him and decided to pay him well over £1M a year to do fuck all? I wish TP had been "right" about me. He didn't pick him though did he. That's the point I was making. There was a reason he was never picked. It's obvious he was part of the crouch deal.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2013 22:01:36 GMT
Right because he spent £6M on him and decided to pay him well over £1M a year to do fuck all? I wish TP had been "right" about me. He didn't pick him though did he. That's the point I was making. There was a reason he was never picked. It's obvious he was part of the crouch deal. So we paid £16-18m for Crouch? Plus his wages and Palacios' £26k a week? And went to all the trouble on deadline day of negotiating with a player we didn't want (and his agent), potentially bringing a disruptive element to a close-knit squad? It makes no sense. Pulis liked him, wanted him, he turned out to be fucked. I really think it's that simple.
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Palacios
Nov 4, 2013 22:08:16 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2013 22:08:16 GMT
Let's face it, he wasn't the first midfielder that Tone spent millions on and then didn't trust enough to play.
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Palacios
Nov 4, 2013 22:13:24 GMT
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Post by Ron on Nov 4, 2013 22:13:24 GMT
He didn't pick him though did he. That's the point I was making. There was a reason he was never picked. It's obvious he was part of the crouch deal. So we paid £16-18m for Crouch? Plus his wages and Palacios' £26k a week? And went to all the trouble on deadline day of negotiating with a player we didn't want (and his agent), potentially bringing a disruptive element to a close-knit squad? It makes no sense. Pulis liked him, wanted him, he turned out to be fucked. I really think it's that simple. redknapp and levy just sold us a dud. In any event it's clear u can't pass comment on here without some one or other shooting u down. What I was saying is that palacios is shit and that tp never picked him for precisely that reason. I'm sure he felt a fool for signing him but soon realised he wasn't up To it.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2013 22:15:17 GMT
So we paid £16-18m for Crouch? Plus his wages and Palacios' £26k a week? And went to all the trouble on deadline day of negotiating with a player we didn't want (and his agent), potentially bringing a disruptive element to a close-knit squad? It makes no sense. Pulis liked him, wanted him, he turned out to be fucked. I really think it's that simple. redknapp and levy just sold us a dud. In any event it's clear u can't pass comment on here without some one or other shooting u down. What I was saying is that palacios is shit and that tp never picked him for precisely that reason. I'm sure he felt a fool for signing him but soon realised he wasn't up To it. It's a messgeboard mate. Everyone can pass comment. Doesn't mean we all have to agree and it'd be boring as sin if we did.
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Post by braddamick on Nov 4, 2013 22:46:11 GMT
I was watching Palacios closely on Saturday. I assure you he did not "Grow into the Game" he was not "Better than Whelan". It was very poor performance. To be honest I was shocked at his apparent lack of agility for a supposed,top earning, Premiership player. Tony didn't play him. Now we know why. It will be embarrassing if Hughesey continues to pick him.
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Nov 4, 2013 22:53:15 GMT
redknapp and levy just sold us a dud. In any event it's clear u can't pass comment on here without some one or other shooting u down. What I was saying is that palacios is shit and that tp never picked him for precisely that reason. I'm sure he felt a fool for signing him but soon realised he wasn't up To it. It's a messgeboard mate. Everyone can pass comment. Doesn't mean we all have to agree and it'd be boring as sin if we did. Sin isn't boring. Palacios did a passable impression of Kenny Everett with his big black gloves. But not an entirely believable impersonation of a passable footballer.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2013 22:56:25 GMT
I was watching Palacios closely on Saturday. I assure you he did not "Grow into the Game" he was not "Better than Whelan". It was very poor performance. To be honest I was shocked at his apparent lack of agility for a supposed,top earning, Premiership player. Tony didn't play him. Now we know why. It will be embarrassing if Hughesey continues to pick him. What did Whelan do better on the day? Wasn't passing, that's for sure. Wasn't tackling either.
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Post by Olgrligm on Nov 4, 2013 23:03:36 GMT
I was watching Palacios closely on Saturday. I assure you he did not "Grow into the Game" he was not "Better than Whelan". It was very poor performance. To be honest I was shocked at his apparent lack of agility for a supposed,top earning, Premiership player. Tony didn't play him. Now we know why. It will be embarrassing if Hughesey continues to pick him. What did Whelan do better on the day? Wasn't passing, that's for sure. Wasn't tackling either. I found that he was popping up quite a lot and picking up loose balls. It was nice that one of our players was actually capable of judging the flight of the ball in the wind. Plus he actually demonstrated some defensive discipline and did a good job of shielding the defence. He also kicked Wanyama a lot, which I rather enjoyed. But, everyone, including Mark Hughes, apparently thinks I was wrong, so I swear this time I'm just going to cut my losses and get out of this thread.
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Post by roylandstoke on Nov 4, 2013 23:03:46 GMT
Right because he spent £6M on him and decided to pay him well over £1M a year to do fuck all? I wish TP had been "right" about me. He didn't pick him though did he. That's the point I was making. There was a reason he was never picked. It's obvious he was part of the crouch deal. Are you really saying Pulis spent £16M on peter Crouch and then used £25K of the clubs money every week to pay a player he didn't want/pick to sit on his arse doing nothing. This makes the Crouch deal probably the worst deal in the history of the club. £16M plus £60 odd grand a week in wages for Peter Crouch? I'm on record many times stating my belief that TP's obsession with Crouch was probably the biggest factor in his downfall. If you add the cost of Palacios as a necessary evil in the deal I find it hard to believe TP lasted as long as he did. £16M for Crouch...beyond insane. So far beyond insane you can't see it with the Hubble Telescope.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2013 23:08:14 GMT
What did Whelan do better on the day? Wasn't passing, that's for sure. Wasn't tackling either. I found that he was popping up quite a lot and picking up loose balls. It was nice that one of our players was actually capable of judging the flight of the ball in the wind. Plus he actually demonstrated some defensive discipline and did a good job of shielding the defence. He also kicked Wanyama a lot, which I rather enjoyed. But, everyone, including Mark Hughes, apparently thinks I was wrong, so I swear this time I'm just going to cut my losses and get out of this thread. Yeah, see I felt he was second to everything and his judging the flight of the ball often seemed to lead to him heading the ball straight back from whence it came and us losing possession again. I thought in the first half the shielding of the defence from the midfield in general was embarrassingly non-existent, as the space they had for the goal underlined.
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