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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2013 1:02:13 GMT
Remember how it was last time at the MCG? How the mighty fall - particularly the man front and center. We just have to bite the bullet ...It has been bitten before and come back stronger 18 moths or so hence ....we can do it ...We will,do it
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Post by sydneypotter on Dec 30, 2013 1:29:28 GMT
I'm quite sure your hopes will be fulfilled somewhat.
I sense that both sides will continue through a transition period before the 2015 Ashes. We will, or should have included a couple of the young turk quickies now being developed, an all rounder and will have established an opening pair and a spinner. Could be a reappearance of our young spinner / number 11 who made a sensational debut in the last Ashes series. A quick 99 from a number 11 could be useful occasionally.
Whilst England can look forward to having a more mature all rounder in Stokes; one of the best up and coming talents around. You will need a 'keeper and a spinner to go with an established number 3. Why the heck you aren't playing Bell there is a mystery to me. Hopefully Root will be embedded at 5 or 6. I'm not sure if Cooke will be at the helm (opinions?)
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Post by partickpotter on Dec 30, 2013 9:49:54 GMT
Remember how it was last time at the MCG? How the mighty fall - particularly the man front and center. We just have to bite the bullet ...It has been bitten before and come back stronger 18 moths or so hence ....we can do it ...We will,do it If we "learn lessons" and that these lessons start before this series. Jonathan Agnew made some good points yesterday ( link) particularly that problems existed before this series. He highlights the second test this summer against New Zealand as the start of the "demise" which ain't a bad call but I reckon you can follow the trail further back to the earlier winter tour to New Zealand, to Pakistan in the UAE and ultimately, IMO, to the series defeat in Strauss's first series in the West Indies. What happened in that series and continued since, with a few excellent exceptions, has been an ultra cautious approach in selection and tactics coupled with a failure to accept there are lessons to be learned from victories as well as defeats. For example the "3rd" test in the 2008/9 series in Antigua where we batted too long in our second innings to give us time to bowl the Windies out was an error repeated in the aforementioned test this summer. But I'm optimistic for the future as lessons will be learned from this defeat and as mentioned separately on this thread, we do have young talent to bring forward. Whether of not Cook is captain - I'm unsure. Fair enough if his captaincy and batting (and catching!) improves; if not leave him as opening bat and pick somebody else to do the job. Maybe Broad - he looks like the only England player to have grown in this series.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2013 14:51:00 GMT
Pitiful. Absolutely pitiful. Knee jerk reactions aren't the answer but there's players in that team whose time is up. I've watched some shite England teams over the years but this series has left me more deflated than any other time.... Haven't we all ? And any true England. Follower is deflated ...I know I'm gutted .....but think it through ....which players are the ones who's times are up ? And who in all honesty are there better replacements ?...because if you drop someone ...it has to be because you have a better replacement in the wings ...?I'm not sure we have ...the dropping of Prior being a case in point Sometimes players take naturally to Test cricket and put themselves in contention earlier than you would have thought, I think we need to use the 2 tests against Sri Lanka to experiment with one eye on the 5 match India series and ultimately the Ashes in 2015. Not ideal to blood 3/4 at the same time but we're worryingly light in the bowling department considering all was rosy a couple of years ago. My team for that mini series would be as follows: Alistair Cook (c) Joe Root Ian Bell Kevin Pietersen Garry Ballance Ben Stokes Jos Buttler (wk) Stuart Broad Steve Borthwick Graham Onions Steven Finn There's an argument to rest Pietersen/Bell and play someone like Jamie Vince or anyone of Buttler/Davies/Kieswetter are decent with the gloves but I think that's a decent enough balance between test experience and youth.......
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Post by partickpotter on Dec 30, 2013 16:46:57 GMT
Haven't we all ? And any true England. Follower is deflated ...I know I'm gutted .....but think it through ....which players are the ones who's times are up ? And who in all honesty are there better replacements ?...because if you drop someone ...it has to be because you have a better replacement in the wings ...?I'm not sure we have ...the dropping of Prior being a case in point Sometimes players take naturally to Test cricket and put themselves in contention earlier than you would have thought, I think we need to use the 2 tests against Sri Lanka to experiment with one eye on the 5 match India series and ultimately the Ashes in 2015. Not ideal to blood 3/4 at the same time but we're worryingly light in the bowling department considering all was rosy a couple of years ago. My team for that mini series would be as follows: Alistair Cook (c) Joe Root Ian Bell Kevin Pietersen Garry Ballance Ben Stokes Jos Buttler (wk) Stuart Broad Steve Borthwick Graham Onions Steven Finn There's an argument to rest Pietersen/Bell and play someone like Jamie Vince or anyone of Buttler/Davies/Kieswetter are decent with the gloves but I think that's a decent enough balance between test experience and youth....... Looks good - just a couple of small changes. First is quite small - change Stokes and Borthwick in the line up. Borthwick is the better batsmen. Stokes, at the moment, is more of an eight than a six. This leaves Broad at nine which is about right for him. Second - if we are getting shot of Anderson I'd replace him with a younger player. I don't see Onions at 31 as part of our future.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Dec 30, 2013 19:12:41 GMT
I'd keep Anderson for now but have more rotation with him and others.
Not sure Root could tbh, I'd prefer to see him down the order.
And is Buttler good enough with the bat? He doesn't convince me from the little I've seen of him for England in the shorter form of the game. But I wouldn't like to categorically say because I don't know enough about him.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 2, 2014 23:03:21 GMT
Dropped Root but kept Carberry????
Ballance, Borthwick and Rankin in for their debuts.
Toss won and we field.
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Post by partickpotter on Jan 2, 2014 23:29:50 GMT
Dropping Root must mean they have even less confidence in him as an opener than Carberry; which is fair enough.
I think I would have put Bell into open and kept Root at three.
Now c'mon England; please, please, please show these Aussies what you are capable of.
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Post by Gods on Jan 2, 2014 23:52:16 GMT
Boycott seems to reckon England could be in the field for a while!
"England have put Australia in and the ball has not done a single thing. It's straight up and down."
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Post by salopstick on Jan 3, 2014 0:47:46 GMT
Good start to be fair If they can get Clarke and Watson out before lunch maybe...
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 3, 2014 1:17:38 GMT
3 down, we've got to keep the pressure on.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 3, 2014 1:31:40 GMT
Leg Before Watson.
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!
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Post by salopstick on Jan 3, 2014 1:53:33 GMT
Easy with hindsight but the team needed fresh blood since the second test
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Post by partickpotter on Jan 3, 2014 9:52:15 GMT
Groundhog Day #5.
Our failure to take the final 5 wickets, without conceding too many runs, in the first innings of each test in this series has killed us. In particular, not figuring a plan for Haddin has been a major factor.
Here is the roll of shame;
1st test: 100-5, last 5 wickets put on 195 runs 2nd test: 257-5, last 5 wickets put on 313 runs 3rd test: 143-5, last 5 wickets put on 245 runs 4th test: 112 -5, last 5 wickets put on 82. 5th test: 97-5, last 5 wickets put on 229 runs
In total, the first 5 wickets contributed 699 runs, the last 5 made 984.
I'd bet that (the tail out scoring the batsmen) has never happened before in a 5 test series.
Ok - so for tomorrow; déjà vu parts 1 and 2 have happened (Aussie top order fail and their tail wags), so let's see England break the spell and score big; 550 plus over the next two days. I'll not hold my breath though.
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Jan 3, 2014 12:00:24 GMT
Went to bed after the 5th wicket,had a feeling we wouldn't be getting too many more wickets for a while.
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Post by sydneypotter on Jan 3, 2014 12:06:51 GMT
I can not believe that you did 'it' again. 5/97 and you let it slip.
From an Australian point of view this was a day to remember. Brad Haddin and Steve Smith were simply amazing. Warner and Clarke were forgettable. I'm beginning to lose faith in Davey as an opening test batsman and our skipper also needs to sharpen his craft somewhat. That is batting not captaincy. It was perhaps George Bailey's second last innings in a baggy green after today's woeful display.
Carberry already in the dressing sheds and Johnson 'on heat' who can tell what might happen tomorrow. From a cricketing perspective I would like to see your skipper living up to his press. I think he can, he's a talented batsman although I'm not sure of his captaincy skills. Playing Bell at 3 could prove to be a master stroke. Seeing KP in the field today he didn't seem to be all that interested in what was going on. By the way your Irish quickie was something of a damp squib.
I have to say that the Balmy Army provided a great rendition of Jerusalem today although it did seem to be overwhelmed by a version of Waltzing Matilda by the Fanatics. In the face of some enthraling Ashes test cricket the Mexican wave never stood a chance to stamp its woe-begotten presence during the afternoon's play.
The day was a prime example of what Ashes cricket is all about. Neither side could honestly say that they had the ascendancy at any time during the day. Although I have to repeat, how the hell could you let such a strong position slip. Your management must be pulling out their hair.
Here's hoping for a day to excite as much tomorrow. It will only take a loss of concentration from Australia to pull the match account square. (even though you are a wicket down so early) Trust in Bell..... I hope he can pull you up..... but just a tad I admit.
Good luck tomorrow.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 3, 2014 16:05:07 GMT
Disappointing but inevitable. Is it the bowlers? Is it the captain? Is it just one of those things? I have no idea.
And I hope the England coaches don't go to town on Stokes because he keeps knocking the bails off. He's getting wickets like Finn was before You started messing with him. Leave him alone!
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Post by sydneypotter on Jan 3, 2014 21:57:05 GMT
Well done Stokes. A five for and a century in his Ashes debut series is something he will always remember.
I was sitting behind the bowler's arm yesterday and I noticed that his run up is something of a dog's breakfast in that the last 4 or five steps before his delivery stride he takes a decided lurch towards the stumps. The change in direction is made even more unstable by a stutter and a change of pace in the run up. I'm no bowling coach but even I could see that the variation of pace and direction must have consequence. Case in point is he does dislodge the bails often. Just a thought. Even with this 'fault' he has managed to produce what could be a match winning performance. I'm looking forward to watching Stokes go from strength to strength over the next year or two. This is one Kiwi we would welcome into the side, although his All Black father would have disowned him I'm sure.
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Post by salopstick on Jan 3, 2014 23:31:59 GMT
Cook given up
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2014 23:32:57 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2014 23:33:28 GMT
Watson feeling sorry for us, thanks
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2014 23:39:17 GMT
Just make it quick Australia please it's getting embarrasing now......
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2014 23:53:01 GMT
A bloody shambles.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2014 0:03:48 GMT
Fuck you KP. Could be 80 all out here.......
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2014 0:05:03 GMT
Well, what can you say that hasn't been said already. Absolutely embarassing, clueless and abysmal cricket from England this entire series all against a side who aren't that good. That's opening a can of worms but this Australian side aren't world beaters but my Gawd we're making them appear so.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2014 0:06:47 GMT
5-0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2014 0:06:59 GMT
Well, what can you say that hasn't been said already. Absolutely embarassing, clueless and abysmal cricket from England this entire series all against a side who aren't that good. That's opening a can of worms but this Australian side aren't world beaters but my Gawd we're making them appear so. It's very good hostile bowling to be fair, but the lack of application is a joke............
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Post by salopstick on Jan 4, 2014 0:28:26 GMT
Be surprised if me make 100
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2014 0:28:44 GMT
Piss poor Bell.......
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Jan 4, 2014 0:31:32 GMT
Sod it I'm off to bed.
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