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Post by harrysburrow on Dec 9, 2013 13:12:22 GMT
We must still carry the flag forward ...Even if we lose , 2015 in England is something we must look forward too ...We can turn it around Got to admire your optimism and you are right there is always tomorrow - even if tomorrow is 2015! Because this series is well and truely fucked for us. I can see Perth being done and dusted in three days if we bat first. We need a good hard look at what has gone wrong - not particularly this series but why we've arrived at this series with two (at least) massive problems. First: our batting since the series against Pakistan in the UAE has not been good enough; FFS we didn't manage a single score above 400 in the summer against either Australia or New Zealand Second: why aren't our fast bowlers bowling fast; 85 mph is OK if you can swing it like Jimmy or are a metronome like McGrath, but otherwise 85-90 ain't quick enough. You have to be 90+ which, for example Broad and Finn used to be able to do, but seem to have lost it. And watching Tremlett bowling at 78 mph in Brisbane was embarassing! I'll continue to watch with more hope than expectation - but I'm sorry to say 5-0 is on the cards unless we massively step up. I agree with all of that except the "continue to watch" bit! I've experienced so much dire stuff over the years that I have to admit that I'm more of a fair weather supporter these days. I enjoy the good stuff and try to ignore the bad - I do the same with the footy too where possible!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2013 13:19:20 GMT
We must still carry the flag forward ...Even if we lose , 2015 in England is something we must look forward too ...We can turn it around Got to admire your optimism and you are right there is always tomorrow - even if tomorrow is 2015! Because this series is well and truely fucked for us. I can see Perth being done and dusted in three days if we bat first. We need a good hard look at what has gone wrong - not particularly this series but why we've arrived at this series with two (at least) massive problems. First: our batting since the series against Pakistan in the UAE has not been good enough; FFS we didn't manage a single score above 400 in the summer against either Australia or New Zealand Second: why aren't our fast bowlers bowling fast; 85 mph is OK if you can swing it like Jimmy or are a metronome like McGrath, but otherwise 85-90 ain't quick enough. You have to be 90+ which, for example Broad and Finn used to be able to do, but seem to have lost it. And watching Tremlett bowling at 78 mph in Brisbane was embarassing! I'll continue to watch with more hope than expectation - but I'm sorry to say 5-0 is on the cards unless we massively step up. We are a much better team than our recent performances have suggested , we should be able to up our game to a much higher standard than we have been performing at.....I am just a little worried as to whether the will is there to do it ? The lack of application shown at times by our batsmen has been astounding Ian Bell's one handed effort to a slow full toss was like something you would see in a school yard ( and I have nothing but admiration for Bell normally ), beyond belief. As to the bowling .....I to share your concern there......I find Jimmy Anderson a little worrying at the moment .....the spark in him seems missing .....Broad is bowling well enough , Finn well they don't seem to want to pick him ? He would be in the team for me every time ......agreed about Tremlett , he was a good bowler , but seing a man- mountain like him floating them down at medium pace as he was at Brisbane was perplexing to say the least ......they appear to be in need of a kick up the backside to stir them up !
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2013 14:10:42 GMT
Got to admire your optimism and you are right there is always tomorrow - even if tomorrow is 2015! Because this series is well and truely fucked for us. I can see Perth being done and dusted in three days if we bat first. We need a good hard look at what has gone wrong - not particularly this series but why we've arrived at this series with two (at least) massive problems. First: our batting since the series against Pakistan in the UAE has not been good enough; FFS we didn't manage a single score above 400 in the summer against either Australia or New Zealand Second: why aren't our fast bowlers bowling fast; 85 mph is OK if you can swing it like Jimmy or are a metronome like McGrath, but otherwise 85-90 ain't quick enough. You have to be 90+ which, for example Broad and Finn used to be able to do, but seem to have lost it. And watching Tremlett bowling at 78 mph in Brisbane was embarassing! I'll continue to watch with more hope than expectation - but I'm sorry to say 5-0 is on the cards unless we massively step up. We are a much better team than our recent performances have suggested , we should be able to up our game to a much higher standard than we have been performing at.....I am just a little worried as to whether the will is there to do it ? The lack of application shown at times by our batsmen has been astounding Ian Bell's one handed effort to a slow full toss was like something you would see in a school yard ( and I have nothing but admiration for Bell normally ), beyond belief. As to the bowling .....I to share your concern there......I find Jimmy Anderson a little worrying at the moment .....the spark in him seems missing .....Broad is bowling well enough , Finn well they don't seem to want to pick him ? He would be in the team for me every time ......agreed about Tremlett , he was a good bowler , but seing a man- mountain like him floating them down at medium pace as he was at Brisbane was perplexing to say the least ......they appear to be in need of a kick up the backside to stir them up ! I think the next 3 games will show whether we're simply underperforming at the moment or a team in decline. I admire your optimism but I fear the latter. I would bring Bresnan in for Swann for Perth and that's the only change I'd make although there is possibly a case for resting Anderson and bringing in Finn, Anderson has looked worryingly out of sorts. I saw something in Stokes that makes me think he's worth persisting with, I like his spirit and he definitely has raw talent. Don't see the point if swapping him for Ballance/Bairstow who may not chip in with many more runs when you lose a bowling option. Whatever the side they owe the fans a performance, win or lose they should be fronting up to the short stuff (and that means taking a hit where necessary not just playing a stupid hook shot down the throat of the deep fielders) and being more agressive with the ball. If we do that win or lose I'll be relatively happy......
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2013 14:51:25 GMT
Got to admire your optimism and you are right there is always tomorrow - even if tomorrow is 2015! Because this series is well and truely fucked for us. I can see Perth being done and dusted in three days if we bat first. We need a good hard look at what has gone wrong - not particularly this series but why we've arrived at this series with two (at least) massive problems. First: our batting since the series against Pakistan in the UAE has not been good enough; FFS we didn't manage a single score above 400 in the summer against either Australia or New Zealand Second: why aren't our fast bowlers bowling fast; 85 mph is OK if you can swing it like Jimmy or are a metronome like McGrath, but otherwise 85-90 ain't quick enough. You have to be 90+ which, for example Broad and Finn used to be able to do, but seem to have lost it. And watching Tremlett bowling at 78 mph in Brisbane was embarassing! I'll continue to watch with more hope than expectation - but I'm sorry to say 5-0 is on the cards unless we massively step up. I agree with all of that except the "continue to watch" bit! I've experienced so much dire stuff over the years that I have to admit that I'm more of a fair weather supporter these days. I enjoy the good stuff and try to ignore the bad - I do the same with the footy too where possible! Unfortunately Harry with England ( and Stoke ! ) you have to take the rough with the smooth .....and I have also experienced the rough far too often !, that's why the Smooth is always the sweeter for me .....I am forever the optimist ....good or bad I will always be a follower
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Post by bayernoatcake on Dec 9, 2013 15:39:08 GMT
So then the team for Perth;
Cook Carberry Bell KP Root Stokes Prior Broad Swann Finn Anderson
I think there's a few tough calls;
1) To keep Stokes or not? 2) Swann or Monty or neither? Monty based on form from this series probably deserves it but Swann has a lot in the bank. 3) Finn/Tremlett/Rankin? I go Finn.
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Post by partickpotter on Dec 9, 2013 17:30:01 GMT
So then the team for Perth; Cook Carberry Bell KP Root Stokes Prior Broad Swann Finn Anderson I think there's a few tough calls; 1) To keep Stokes or not? 2) Swann or Monty or neither? Monty based on form from this series probably deserves it but Swann has a lot in the bank. 3) Finn/Tremlett/Rankin? I go Finn. Starting in the reverse order to you (because it answers the question about Stokes better) 1) pick Finn - and ask him to bowl flat out at 90+ mph; don't worry about runs, just hit a few Aussie heads and ribs. 2) choose Monty as the one spinner but get some serious fielding practice in. 3) pick the best batter for the #6 spot which woud mean Balance. We don't really need a 4th seamer while our batting needs all the help it can get - noting in this team our tail includes Monty, Anderson and Finn which will have Mitch the Terrible licking his lips. More chance of an Old English Sheepdog's tail wagging than that lot! Harsh on Stokes - but he ain't a test #6; more of a #8 3rd seamer; a rival to Bresnan. My only ask - face fire with fire and show some fucking backbone!
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Post by bayernoatcake on Dec 9, 2013 17:38:41 GMT
So then the team for Perth; Cook Carberry Bell KP Root Stokes Prior Broad Swann Finn Anderson I think there's a few tough calls; 1) To keep Stokes or not? 2) Swann or Monty or neither? Monty based on form from this series probably deserves it but Swann has a lot in the bank. 3) Finn/Tremlett/Rankin? I go Finn. Starting in the reverse order to you (because it answers the question about Stokes better) 1) pick Finn - and ask him to bowl flat out at 90+ mph; don't worry about runs, just hit a few Aussie heads and ribs. 2) choose Monty as the one spinner but get some serious fielding practice in. 3) pick the best batter for the #6 spot which woud mean Balance. We don't really need a 4th seamer while our batting needs all the help it can get - noting in this team our tail includes Monty, Anderson and Finn which will have Mitch the Terrible licking his lips. More chance of an Old English Sheepdog's tail wagging than that lot! Harsh on Stokes - but he ain't a test #6; more of a #8 3rd seamer; a rival to Bresnan. My only ask - face fire with fire and show some fucking backbone! Agree with 1 and 3. But Monty if he practised fielding for year solid wouldn't get any better. It's probably the biggerst dilemma out of the lot though imo.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2013 19:11:44 GMT
Right so I've dusted myself down and I'm ready for the comeback of the century. Hope we just go at them from the off and play positively and aggresively (but not stupidly), as long as we do that I'll be happy. Was up for Swann being dropped but with the wind in Perth I've changed my mind, plus his slip catching will be needed. I think England will line up as follows:
Cook Carberry Root Pietersen Bell Stokes Prior Bresnan Broad Swann Anderson
Decent batting depth which I know the selectors are always keen on and Bresnan will hopefully be accurate from the off. Was hoping Finn might be the ace in the pack although the noises are that him and Rankin haven't got a cat in hells chance of playing. Hope we win the toss and go at them, I'm going to predict a famous victory and I said 2-2 at the start so I'm going to stick by it.
Come on England!!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2013 19:42:55 GMT
Right so I've dusted myself down and I'm ready for the comeback of the century. Hope we just go at them from the off and play positively and aggresively (but not stupidly), as long as we do that I'll be happy. Was up for Swann being dropped but with the wind in Perth I've changed my mind, plus his slip catching will be needed. I think England will line up as follows: Cook Carberry Root Pietersen Bell Stokes Prior Bresnan Broad Swann Anderson Decent batting depth which I know the selectors are always keen on and Bresnan will hopefully be accurate from the off. Was hoping Finn might be the ace in the pack although the noises are that him and Rankin haven't got a cat in hells chance of playing. Hope we win the toss and go at them, I'm going to predict a famous victory and I said 2-2 at the start so I'm going to stick by it. Come on England!! I like the sound of your optimism .....And I would be happy to go along with your 2-2 .....now !
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Post by bayernoatcake on Dec 12, 2013 20:21:38 GMT
Bresnan.
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Post by lastoftheldk on Dec 12, 2013 20:37:27 GMT
see the England selectors/scouts are hanging around the railway sports club again
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2013 21:05:44 GMT
Bresnan. Steady Eddie. Every team needs one. He's England's Marc Wilson........
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Post by jimigoodwinsbeard on Dec 12, 2013 21:45:31 GMT
Bresnan. This. I do not see the point in Bresnan, a nothing bowler and an ok lower-middle order bat. Not taking Onions was a major mistake in my opinion, he would have given some control and bowls a decent, surprise bouncer. And it would be nice to see a surprise bouncer rather than a surprise length ball!?!?! Sent from my ST25i using proboards
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Post by bayernoatcake on Dec 13, 2013 0:11:52 GMT
I see him as the Jonny Walters of English cricket. He gets in because he's allegedly good at something that isn't his main discipline ie he can bat a bit. Give me Finn every day of thee week of the current lot.
Yeah JGB, I can't understand why Onions didn't go either, taking Tremlett was just a massive waste.
EDIT- Vaughan on Twatter reckons Tremlett will play. He was spot on last time with Stokes and Panesar. Weird call if true.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2013 0:22:28 GMT
I see him as the Jonny Walters of English cricket. He gets in because he's allegedly good at something that isn't his main discipline ie he can bat a bit. Give me Finn every day of thee week of the current lot. Yeah JGB, I can't understand why Onions didn't go either, taking Tremlett was just a massive waste. Tremlett was selected purely because of his success out there last time .....a strange one really when you consider how little cricket he's played since then.....equally baffling for me is the selection of Rankin .......why they won't select Finn is puzzling to me ?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Dec 13, 2013 0:25:23 GMT
I see him as the Jonny Walters of English cricket. He gets in because he's allegedly good at something that isn't his main discipline ie he can bat a bit. Give me Finn every day of thee week of the current lot. Yeah JGB, I can't understand why Onions didn't go either, taking Tremlett was just a massive waste. Tremlett was selected purely because of his success out there last time .....a strange one really when you consider how little cricket he's played since then.....equally baffling for me is the selection of Rankin .......why they won't select Finn is puzzling to me ? I've just edited that post to say Vaughan (who was spot on with the Adelaide selection) reckons Tremlett will play, which I find odd. I can see why we'd take Rankin but Finn has to play for me too. He's a wicket taker and we need wickets.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2013 0:26:33 GMT
I see him as the Jonny Walters of English cricket. He gets in because he's allegedly good at something that isn't his main discipline ie he can bat a bit. Give me Finn every day of thee week of the current lot. Yeah JGB, I can't understand why Onions didn't go either, taking Tremlett was just a massive waste. EDIT- Vaughan on Twatter reckons Tremlett will play. He was spot on last time with Stokes and Panesar. Weird call if true. Well it's not weird Bayern , but puzzling ....Obviously they are not going to play two spinners again , so a seamer is set for a recall .....they just don't seem to have the confidence to pick Finn.....I'm not sure why they have taken him ?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2013 0:29:01 GMT
Tremlett was selected purely because of his success out there last time .....a strange one really when you consider how little cricket he's played since then.....equally baffling for me is the selection of Rankin .......why they won't select Finn is puzzling to me ? I've just edited that post to say Vaughan (who was spot on with the Adelaide selection) reckons Tremlett will play, which I find odd. I can see why we'd take Rankin but Finn has to play for me too. He's a wicket taker and we need wickets. Doesn't look like Rankin will get a game though ? I think we are in agreement about Finn , but the selectors aren't
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Post by bayernoatcake on Dec 13, 2013 0:34:30 GMT
I've just edited that post to say Vaughan (who was spot on with the Adelaide selection) reckons Tremlett will play, which I find odd. I can see why we'd take Rankin but Finn has to play for me too. He's a wicket taker and we need wickets. Doesn't look like Rankin will get a game though ? I think we are in agreement about Finn , but the selectors aren't Not everyone who goes on tour will get a game though will they? He was always back up and an option but where they cocked up imo is taking Tremlett who clearly isn't fit or as fast and not taking someone a bit different like Onions. And now it appears he's first choice of the best of the rest after Anderson and Broad. Finn has to play.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2013 0:39:20 GMT
Doesn't look like Rankin will get a game though ? I think we are in agreement about Finn , but the selectors aren't Not everyone who goes on tour will get a game though will they? He was always back up and an option but where they cocked up imo is taking Tremlett who clearly isn't fit or as fast and not taking someone a bit different like Onions. And now it appears he's first choice of the best of the rest after Anderson and Broad. Finn has to play. I think Rankin was back up to Tremlett similar type of bowler , who they thought would replace him if Tremlett broke down again ....an odd selection for me
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2013 1:33:43 GMT
My eyes are drooping already - I'll just watch the first session.
As much as it hurts me to say it, I can't see this match going anyway other than the way that the first two tests went.
If that happens - look on the bright side, and maybe a few of the old stagers will be replaced with newer and better players.
Either that or we go into the doldrums again for twenty or so years ....
I've never admitted this to anyone, but d'ya know, I've never really rated Broad. Legs too long. A fast bowler needs a long body (torso) to put some whumph into the delivery.
C'mon England!!!!!!!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2013 1:40:52 GMT
When I say old stagers I think that I am mainly talking about Pieterson - he has been pissing me off for a while now.
I'd love Root to come good. At the moment, as far as I can see, he is fannying around at the crease for hours - with little end product.
I like the look of Stokes - very much.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2013 1:45:38 GMT
Hello?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2013 1:57:43 GMT
Shit, I thought it started at 2am. It starts at 2:30am.
I'm going to be wrecked for working tomorrow.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Dec 13, 2013 2:05:20 GMT
Bresnan in. For Monty, that's the only change. What's the point in taking tall, fast bowlers and then not playing them at the WACA? Boycott; "Steven Finn has got a decent record and takes wickets. Batsmen get runs and bowlers get wickets, that's their job. Now he seems to have gone to the back of the queue and I find it odd that Ben Stokes is bowling here and batting at number six when he would be at number eight in a good Test side. When you have a knack of bowling fast and taking wickets, you play - it doesn't matter if he knocks the stumps every now and again. What have the England coaches been doing with him since the summer?" Nail and head son, as RAF would say.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2013 2:11:18 GMT
What fast bowlers have we played. I mean really fast bowlers - not quick medium pacers ...
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Post by bayernoatcake on Dec 13, 2013 2:12:32 GMT
What fast bowlers have we played. I mean really fast bowlers - not quick medium pacers ... The two fastest we have are Finn and Rankin aren't they? They aren't Johnson quick but they're the quickest we have available.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2013 2:13:05 GMT
Broad cannot hold a candle to Finn.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2013 2:20:39 GMT
Let's hope Stokes gets a good bowl, cos I think that he could do it for us.
Normally I would say Anderson, but things aren't working for him are they? Climate maybe? Little swing etc.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2013 2:24:16 GMT
Being a bit of a romantic I suppose, but I reckon that you can see in a bowlers face how much he "means it".
Bowlers need hate and aggression built in. Look at Freddie (Flintoff) - he meant it, and you could see it. McGrath, Warne, Trueman .... they meant it!
OMG, is Rolf going to pop up?
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