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Post by ukcstokie on Sept 24, 2013 15:52:31 GMT
Its banter when we do it, unacceptable abuse whenever anybody else does it. apparently it's also "Harassment" and "Slander" according to some on here Sid...but our treatment of other fans/players/clubs is just banter and part and parcel of the game that these players should accept what with it being a "Man's sport" and all that amazing how wound up some idiots on here get given the fact that Shawcross himself has said he doesn't care one way or the other and actually uses it to spur him on...most sound like keyboard warriors sticking up for their 6 year old brother despite the fact that in this instance the 6 year old brother is actually 6ft 4, built like a brick shithouse, paid tens of thousands of pounds a week to be a PROFESSIONAL and perfectly capable of looking after himself but sees no need to. apparently he needs 16 stone 45 year olds in the stands shouting abuse, insults and making leg breaking noises to help him out...he must be so grateful and proud of those particular fans!! Sorry Mick there is a big difference. You obviously don't want to acknowledge it as you've been peddling this view that we're just as bad a they are (and if that was the case, why aren't we still going on about the Sunderland players who broke Deplap's and Wilson's legs then?) We do need to let it go but that is never going to happened until there's a halt to the vile and slander coming out of Arsenal and the media. Of course Stoke fans are going to eventually respond when they see lies about one of our players and the club. And it is slander. I provided you with the definition before (and which point you resorted to name calling). It's blatant lies purporting to be the truth aiming to damage both Ryan and our club. Yes the majority what we do is just banter. The same we give and take with every club. The return from the Arsenal fans isn't banter. It is far worse and appears to be orchestrated (but according to you the likes of the Telegraph, BBC, Sky, etc. were just responding to a couple of threads on the Oatcake talking about the incident). The idiots (and there are a few) who take it too far - the leg snapping stuff - are just out of order. But there will always be a few idiots who take things like this too far - it's a football match for christsake. There hasn't been the massive sway of the Stoke support venting their feelings on Ramsey - just a few idiots. Were there lot's booing Ramsey on Sunday? You seem to be comparing a few idiots on our side with a massive and continuing reaction on the Arsenal side.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2013 16:23:08 GMT
apparently it's also "Harassment" and "Slander" according to some on here Sid...but our treatment of other fans/players/clubs is just banter and part and parcel of the game that these players should accept what with it being a "Man's sport" and all that amazing how wound up some idiots on here get given the fact that Shawcross himself has said he doesn't care one way or the other and actually uses it to spur him on...most sound like keyboard warriors sticking up for their 6 year old brother despite the fact that in this instance the 6 year old brother is actually 6ft 4, built like a brick shithouse, paid tens of thousands of pounds a week to be a PROFESSIONAL and perfectly capable of looking after himself but sees no need to. apparently he needs 16 stone 45 year olds in the stands shouting abuse, insults and making leg breaking noises to help him out...he must be so grateful and proud of those particular fans!! Sorry Mick there is a big difference. You obviously don't want to acknowledge it as you've been peddling this view that we're just as bad a they are (and if that was the case, why aren't we still going on about the Sunderland players who broke Deplap's and Wilson's legs then?) We do need to let it go but that is never going to happened until there's a halt to the vile and slander coming out of Arsenal and the media. Of course Stoke fans are going to eventually respond when they see lies about one of our players and the club. And it is slander. I provided you with the definition before (and which point you resorted to name calling). It's blatant lies purporting to be the truth aiming to damage both Ryan and our club. Yes the majority what we do is just banter. The same we give and take with every club. The return from the Arsenal fans isn't banter. It is far worse and appears to be orchestrated (but according to you the likes of the Telegraph, BBC, Sky, etc. were just responding to a couple of threads on the Oatcake talking about the incident). The idiots (and there are a few) who take it too far - the leg snapping stuff - are just out of order. But there will always be a few idiots who take things like this too far - it's a football match for christsake. There hasn't been the massive sway of the Stoke support venting their feelings on Ramsey - just a few idiots. Were there lot's booing Ramsey on Sunday? You seem to be comparing a few idiots on our side with a massive and continuing reaction on the Arsenal side. which shows you've kind of completely missed my (and several other people who agree) point!!! yes, i'm fully aware that the Arsenal fans and Wenger are to blame and that at the match the booing of Ramsey is by a minority.....what i am referring to is the treatment on here of Ramsey which in turn helps to fuel that minority at the match (and, by the way, i never once implied that anything Arsenal fans or the media say or do is because of what happens on the Oatcake, simply you reading things into a post that simply aren't there!). Ramsey hasn't really actually done anything wrong; his leg broke in 2 places following a tackle from Shawcross.......[some on here state that the leg broke BEFORE Shawcross touched him (which absolutely NO-ONE can prove unless they took an x-ray BEFORE the tackle, the photos most tend to point to are ones that were actually taken a split second AFTER the tackle NOT before...this is also why i pointed out that you were wrong about the slander tag, unless you can prove factually that the leg was already broken, which quite simply you can't, then it ISN'T slander as slander is something which is untrue and the fact is that no-one here is a fully qulaified doctor who can prove one way or another whether it's true or not!)] he didn't accept Ryan's apology and that's it. Ryan isn't bothered about it (and has said so himself publicly), Ramsey himself says he has moved on, jesus even Wenger in 2010 asked his own fans to respect Ryan in the next game. if people want to abuse Wenger and the fans then i have no problem with that, but to come on here and slate Ramsey when he's basically done nothing is pathetic and nothing to do with sticking up for Ryan (unless you're saying people have to abuse Ramsey because it's Ramsey that's slandering him? good luck with that one!)it's simply a cheap excuse to slag someone off because our player is getting booed; typical knee-jerk, refuse to think about it properly Oatcake reaction basically.....Ryan is being booed because of the Ramsey challenge therefore blame Ramsey and slag him off to the hilt. yes, both sides are just as bad but most people were taught from about the age of 3 "If they jumped off a cliff would you do it just because they did?" or "Just because they called you a name doesn't mean you have to resort to their level" etc. etc. and that's the point you've missed!!!! it's childish behaviour and nothing you can say can disprove that...we boo them because they boo Ryan even though Ryan doesn't give a shit, doesn't need anyone to stick up for him and certainly won't want the image of Stoke City being dragged through the media every time we play a particular team because if the way the fans behave. yes, WE may understand that it's the Arsenal fans we're booing, WE may understand that it's because of the Arsenal fans "Starting it" by booing Ryan but none of the neutrals or the media do..they know about the incident and as far as they're concerned they hear Stoke fans booing so they think we're bloody idiots and disgraceful for booing someone who had a serious injury and THIS is the main problem as far as i see it. if you don't want the media to misread things that we, as fans, do then there's one very bloody simple solution to it; STOP DOING IT!!!! if we don't boo anyone, don't make pathetic leg breaking noises etc. then there is NO ammunition for the Arsenal fans and the media to hit us with. we understand why we do it but because no-one else does then it's Stoke's image that suffers and stangely enough, i'm not a big fan of that! i personally don't give a shit one way or the other what neutrals or the meida think of Arsenal but i don't want them thinking we're all disgusting wankers who boo players who suffered injuries (which IS what they think and why we get hammered and why it's brought up every time we play them because they expect more of the same) it's called being the bigger man rather than acting in a way that i'd be disappointed with my 6 year old for! Shawcross has moved on and said so publically, Ramsey has moved on and said so publically so what the hell is the problem with people who had NO direct connection with the incident in letting it drop??? i really fail to understand that and just think it's about time that grown adults actually started behaving like it for once.not a big ask is it?
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Post by ukcstokie on Sept 24, 2013 16:56:21 GMT
Sorry Mick there is a big difference. You obviously don't want to acknowledge it as you've been peddling this view that we're just as bad a they are (and if that was the case, why aren't we still going on about the Sunderland players who broke Deplap's and Wilson's legs then?) We do need to let it go but that is never going to happened until there's a halt to the vile and slander coming out of Arsenal and the media. Of course Stoke fans are going to eventually respond when they see lies about one of our players and the club. And it is slander. I provided you with the definition before (and which point you resorted to name calling). It's blatant lies purporting to be the truth aiming to damage both Ryan and our club. Yes the majority what we do is just banter. The same we give and take with every club. The return from the Arsenal fans isn't banter. It is far worse and appears to be orchestrated (but according to you the likes of the Telegraph, BBC, Sky, etc. were just responding to a couple of threads on the Oatcake talking about the incident). The idiots (and there are a few) who take it too far - the leg snapping stuff - are just out of order. But there will always be a few idiots who take things like this too far - it's a football match for christsake. There hasn't been the massive sway of the Stoke support venting their feelings on Ramsey - just a few idiots. Were there lot's booing Ramsey on Sunday? You seem to be comparing a few idiots on our side with a massive and continuing reaction on the Arsenal side. which shows you've kind of completely missed my (and several other people who agree) point!!! yes, i'm fully aware that the Arsenal fans and Wenger are to blame and that at the match the booing of Ramsey is by a minority.....what i am referring to is the treatment on here of Ramsey which in turn helps to fuel that minority at the match (and, by the way, i never once implied that anything Arsenal fans or the media say or do is because of what happens on the Oatcake, simply you reading things into a post that simply aren't there!). Ramsey hasn't really actually done anything wrong; his leg broke in 2 places following a tackle from Shawcross.......[some on here state that the leg broke BEFORE Shawcross touched him (which absolutely NO-ONE can prove unless they took an x-ray BEFORE the tackle, the photos most tend to point to are ones that were actually taken a split second AFTER the tackle NOT before...this is also why i pointed out that you were wrong about the slander tag, unless you can prove factually that the leg was already broken, which quite simply you can't, then it ISN'T slander as slander is something which is untrue and the fact is that no-one here is a fully qulaified doctor who can prove one way or another whether it's true or not!)] he didn't accept Ryan's apology and that's it. Ryan isn't bothered about it (and has said so himself publicly), Ramsey himself says he has moved on, jesus even Wenger in 2010 asked his own fans to respect Ryan in the next game. if people want to abuse Wenger and the fans then i have no problem with that, but to come on here and slate Ramsey when he's basically done nothing is pathetic and nothing to do with sticking up for Ryan (unless you're saying people have to abuse Ramsey because it's Ramsey that's slandering him? good luck with that one!)it's simply a cheap excuse to slag someone off because our player is getting booed; typical knee-jerk, refuse to think about it properly Oatcake reaction basically.....Ryan is being booed because of the Ramsey challenge therefore blame Ramsey and slag him off to the hilt. yes, both sides are just as bad but most people were taught from about the age of 3 "If they jumped off a cliff would you do it just because they did?" or "Just because they called you a name doesn't mean you have to resort to their level" etc. etc. and that's the point you've missed!!!! it's childish behaviour and nothing you can say can disprove that...we boo them because they boo Ryan even though Ryan doesn't give a shit, doesn't need anyone to stick up for him and certainly won't want the image of Stoke City being dragged through the media every time we play a particular team because if the way the fans behave. yes, WE may understand that it's the Arsenal fans we're booing, WE may understand that it's because of the Arsenal fans "Starting it" by booing Ryan but none of the neutrals or the media do..they know about the incident and as far as they're concerned they hear Stoke fans booing so they think we're bloody idiots and disgraceful for booing someone who had a serious injury and THIS is the main problem as far as i see it. if you don't want the media to misread things that we, as fans, do then there's one very bloody simple solution to it; STOP DOING IT!!!! if we don't boo anyone, don't make pathetic leg breaking noises etc. then there is NO ammunition for the Arsenal fans and the media to hit us with. we understand why we do it but because no-one else does then it's Stoke's image that suffers and stangely enough, i'm not a big fan of that! i personally don't give a shit one way or the other what neutrals or the meida think of Arsenal but i don't want them thinking we're all disgusting wankers who boo players who suffered injuries (which IS what they think and why we get hammered and why it's brought up every time we play them because they expect more of the same) it's called being the bigger man rather than acting in a way that i'd be disappointed with my 6 year old for! Shawcross has moved on and said so publically, Ramsey has moved on and said so publically so what the hell is the problem with people who had NO direct connection with the incident in letting it drop??? i really fail to understand that and just think it's about time that grown adults actually started behaving like it for once.not a big ask is it? On the question of slander: there has been numerous instances, for example: that Ryan was deliberately and intentionally trying to break Ramsey's leg. That Ryan broke Franny Jefferies leg. One absurd article claimed Ryan was trying to kill Ramsey. There are many more. All slanderous - and you know if ever came of it (and we all hope it doesn't, would be easily proved in court). On the question of booing. At all the games since the incident I can remember on 2 occasions where there has been widespread booing of Ramsey. 2011/12 at the Brit we booed every single Arsenal player. 2012/13 There was a brief period towards the end of the match where we responded to the Arsenal fans chants against Ryan. It wasn't correct, but it was, I'm sure, a gut reaction by most of the Stoke fans who did it. Apart from that, I think the Stoke fans reaction at the matches has by-and-large been impeccable. We have been, IMHO, the "bigger man" - as you put it. Why do some on here - and it really is just on here - take it out on Ramsey? Well I'm sure it's because he is the focus on the Arsenal side for all of this. He could have accepted Ryan's apologies - but he chose not to - and that is his right. He also could have ended this all couldn't he. Asked the media and more importantly the Arsenal fans just to move on? He hasn't - and that is to his shame. He seems to be using it - maybe intentionally, maybe not, as an ongoing excuse that the media will use as a defence mechanism in the case of below par performances. There is also the point that there does seem to be somebody in the media feeding people these stories. It was too much of a coincidence that several news organisations seemed to all offer the same slant on the pre-match build up - like they'd all been briefed. "so what the hell is the problem with people who had NO direct connection with the incident in letting it drop??? " - well I think 99% of Stoke fans want to let it drop don't we? We talk about on here - because that what 'here' is for! The ones regurgitating this sorry incident are not the Stoke fan on here, at the matches , but the Arsenal club, the media and the Arsenal fans.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2013 17:27:56 GMT
Its banter when we do it, unacceptable abuse whenever anybody else does it. apparently it's also "Harassment" and "Slander" according to some on here Sid...but our treatment of other fans/players/clubs is just banter and part and parcel of the game that these players should accept what with it being a "Man's sport" and all that amazing how wound up some idiots on here get given the fact that Shawcross himself has said he doesn't care one way or the other and actually uses it to spur him on...most sound like keyboard warriors sticking up for their 6 year old brother despite the fact that in this instance the 6 year old brother is actually 6ft 4, built like a brick shithouse, paid tens of thousands of pounds a week to be a PROFESSIONAL and perfectly capable of looking after himself but sees no need to. apparently he needs 16 stone 45 year olds in the stands shouting abuse, insults and making leg breaking noises to help him out...he must be so grateful and proud of those particular fans!! Would that make us as bad as them? Or them as bad as us?
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