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Post by gibby1409 on Dec 9, 2012 13:44:03 GMT
We play Everton next week, and I think this is a club we should/could aspire to be.
They are a proper traditional club, with admittedly, a more trophy laden past than us, but I really think they should be the benchmark for a club of Stokes size.
They have built up steadily through Moyes tenure, and at times, they've slipped back, but then moved forward again. This is symptamatic though of clubs doing things on a reasonable budget, rather than an obscenely over the top budget.
Where budgets are concerned, we have certainly outspent Everton over the past five years, but bear in mind that Everton have been in the top flight for as long as I've been watching football, and I saw my first game in 1969.
So they have been at the top table for a long time, which should mean that they have had the opportunity to earn a good income for a long period. Whereas Stoke have probably only spent 15 to 20 years in the top flight over the same period, so we are playing catchup from a financial aspect.
What I'm really driving at though, is that Everton have been an upper mid table team for quite a while, and a good cup team with the odd euro adventure. This is where I see Stokes level (Unless a Sheik comes in and buys St Peter out!)
Look at the similarities, both are traditional clubs, community spirit is important, passionate opinionated supporters, both building at a steady sustainable pace, neither seen as overly trendy or fashionable, and there will be many more similarities.
For me as a passionate Stokie, I would be pretty comfortable with having a club that over the next 5 to 10 years were looked at in the same way as Everton?
There is always a danger though, that, especially the new generation of fans get too impatient, and that if we do achieve what i mention above, then they want to get to the next level too quickly, and at any cost. The championship is full of clubs like that, and what would our hosts yesterday give to be back at the point where they were impatient with Martin O'Neils 6th place finishes?
I just wondered what other Stokies thoughts are, would it be enough for us all?
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Dec 9, 2012 14:32:44 GMT
I dont actually think Everton are that good.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Dec 9, 2012 14:33:54 GMT
In fact I think we are as good as them. We certainly have a better squad.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Dec 9, 2012 14:53:56 GMT
Everton in all aspects of football are stratospheres above us imo.
They have a long standing brand that means they always will be irrespective of the cash we may have.
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Post by swampySCFC on Dec 9, 2012 14:56:14 GMT
Everton are shite and I expect us to duff them up
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Post by maninasuitcase on Dec 9, 2012 15:01:23 GMT
I would fucking hate it if Uncle Peter sold our club to some Arabs or some Russians
Yeah they may provide a sackful of cash and promise the world, and we may win some silverware, but look at what shallow cunts Citeh and chelski fans have become since the money men rolled in.
I'd take mediocrity every time above that.
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Post by gibby1409 on Dec 9, 2012 15:08:39 GMT
Everton in all aspects of football are stratospheres above us imo. They have a long standing brand that means they always will be irrespective of the cash we may have. I'm not talking about overnight though Bayern? I'm talking in terms of achievements, and club status, this is where we should be aspiring to be? |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Dec 9, 2012 15:16:26 GMT
Everton in all aspects of football are stratospheres above us imo. They have a long standing brand that means they always will be irrespective of the cash we may have. I'm not talking about overnight though Bayern? I'm talking in terms of achievements, and club status, this is where we should be aspiring to be? I don't think it'll ever happen, even in time. We'd need to win a league or two for a start. And that will never, ever happen unless we do get an Arab takeover or something. Which is pie in the sky stuff. We may win a cup if we stay in the Premier League in the next five years. But realistically that's about our lot. Top 10 finishes and a cup win are the limits for us. |
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Post by gibby1409 on Dec 9, 2012 15:21:15 GMT
I'm not talking about overnight though Bayern? I'm talking in terms of achievements, and club status, this is where we should be aspiring to be? I don't think it'll ever happen, even in time. We'd need to win a league or two for a start. And that will never, ever happen unless we do get an Arab takeover or something. Which is pie in the sky stuff. We may win a cup if we stay in the Premier League in the next five years. But realistically that's about our lot. Top 10 finishes and a cup win are the limits for us. Exactly, this is my point, top ten finishes, and a cup win! This is the very best we can wish for imo. So we do agree ?  |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Dec 9, 2012 15:23:22 GMT
I don't think it'll ever happen, even in time. We'd need to win a league or two for a start. And that will never, ever happen unless we do get an Arab takeover or something. Which is pie in the sky stuff. We may win a cup if we stay in the Premier League in the next five years. But realistically that's about our lot. Top 10 finishes and a cup win are the limits for us. Exactly, this is my point, top ten finishes, and a cup win! This is the very best we can wish for imo. So we do agree ? But that's not like Everton at all! Everton stand a real chance of finishing fourth and have done in the past 5? maybe a bit more years. 10th and a cup win-yes! Close to Everton-not in the slightest! |
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Post by vinecent on Dec 9, 2012 15:27:53 GMT
Everton are no push-overs.
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Post by gibby1409 on Dec 9, 2012 15:28:39 GMT
Exactly, this is my point, top ten finishes, and a cup win! This is the very best we can wish for imo. So we do agree ? But that's not like Everton at all! Everton stand a real chance of finishing fourth and have done in the past 5? maybe a bit more years. 10th and a cup win-yes! Close to Everton-not in the slightest! In reality, I don't think Everton will be close to top four in terms of points at the end of the season. I think they are regular top 10, and a good cup side, and we should be operating at a similar level? I agree that they are still ahead of us in many ways, but the point is, this is where we should be aspiring to be, and would this be enough for us Stokies? It deffo would for me, but maybe not for some? |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Dec 9, 2012 15:32:24 GMT
But that's not like Everton at all! Everton stand a real chance of finishing fourth and have done in the past 5? maybe a bit more years. 10th and a cup win-yes! Close to Everton-not in the slightest! In reality, I don't think Everton will be close to top four in terms of points at the end of the season. I think they are regular top 10, and a good cup side, and we should be operating at a similar level? I agree that they are still ahead of us in many ways, but the point is, this is where we should be aspiring to be, and would this be enough for us Stokies? It deffo would for me, but maybe not for some? Maybe not but they should finish in the top 6. I just don't think in terms of support, history, calibre of player etc etc we are close to Everton. They are streets aheaf of us and always probably will be. We should aspire to top 10 and a cup. Everton should aspire to top 6 and a cup. Top 4 if the season is a weak one like this year. |
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Post by euanstokie123 on Dec 9, 2012 15:36:01 GMT
In fact I think we are as good as them. We certainly have a better squad. What rubbish ;D |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Dec 9, 2012 15:41:03 GMT
In fact I think we are as good as them. We certainly have a better squad. What rubbish ;D I'd say they have the better team but we have the better squad. Our squad is quite impressive. Barring Heitinga, I'd rather have our bench than theirs from today. |
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Dec 9, 2012 15:43:50 GMT
In fact I think we are as good as them. We certainly have a better squad. What rubbish ;D We have a far better squad. Unfortunately we dont utilise it correctly. Because if we did we would be in the top 8 right now imo. |
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Post by lagwafis on Dec 9, 2012 15:46:24 GMT
Top ten and a trophy has to be an aim given clubs like Leicester, Birmingham and Middlesborough have achieved it since the Premier League was formed.
Agree with bayern re: Everton though, they had a lean spell in the 1990s when they weren't doing so well down in mid / bottom half of the table, but seven out of their last ten seasons they've finished seventh or higher (fourth once, fifth twice), impressive given the money that's emerged at Man City and Chelsea in the last decade or so. Historically only Man United, Liverpool and Arsenal have won more league titles to their nine while they've got something like five FA Cups to their name and a Cup Winners Cup. (That said, they haven't won anything since the 1995 FA Cup)
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Dec 9, 2012 15:46:30 GMT
I cant understand this thread. Why should we aspire to be a club that we are most likely to beat next Saturday?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Dec 9, 2012 15:50:35 GMT
I cant understand this thread. Why should we aspire to be a club that we are most likely to beat next Saturday? It's just unrealistic. They're a bigger and better club and with the brand they have, they will almost always be able to attract better players when they need to. We can compete with them and we can aspire all we want but we'll never be a club like Everton. Too much needs to happen. |
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Post by PerCyfilth ....Captains Log on Dec 9, 2012 15:53:05 GMT
In most situations ground, finance, fans etc. we are a better club than Everton...except in the football we play. I would sooner watch them every week than us. FACT.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Dec 9, 2012 15:57:40 GMT
I cant understand this thread. Why should we aspire to be a club that we are most likely to beat next Saturday? It's just unrealistic. They're a bigger and better club and with the brand they have, they will almost always be able to attract better players when they need to. We can compete with them and we can aspire all we want but we'll never be a club like Everton. Too much needs to happen. Disagree. For a start I think, as I said, we have the better squad. The likes of Naysmith are utter cack. I dont think they do attract better players than us tbh mate. And we also have a lot more money than they do. Problem is we waste it on absurd signings like 10 million quid on a 31 year old who doesnt fit in with the system. We have a far better defence than them and imo the only thing stopping us being comfortably ahead of them in the table is the managers inability to recognise that we need pace in the side. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Dec 9, 2012 16:04:25 GMT
It's just unrealistic. They're a bigger and better club and with the brand they have, they will almost always be able to attract better players when they need to. We can compete with them and we can aspire all we want but we'll never be a club like Everton. Too much needs to happen. Disagree. For a start I think, as I said, we have the better squad. The likes of Naysmith are utter cack. I dont think they do attract better players than us tbh mate. And we also have a lot more money than they do. Problem is we waste it on absurd signings like 10 million quid on a 31 year old who doesnt fit in with the system. We have a far better defence than them and imo the only thing stopping us being comfortably ahead of them in the table is the managers inability to recognise that we need pace in the side. Of course they do, we could only dream of attracting players like Fellaini or Baines. They're a cut above anything we have including Shawcross imo. And why can they? Because they're Everton, they're a name in football, they've won the league loads of time and are one of the most famous clubs in England. We can't compete with that brand. We can compete financially but I still think a player would go to Everton if they were given the same first team opportunites if it meant they earnt a bit less. I would! Why? Everton are just better. We have a better defence in the middle and in goal but their full backs are excellent. And their midfield and strikers shit all over ours. But like You I still think we should win next week but I think if we were playing Real Madrid at home next week we could do them over. Do I think we will finish above them in the table-no! Do I think we're better than Real Madrid? No! |
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Post by Gods on Dec 9, 2012 16:05:18 GMT
I think it is a decent aspiration but it would take decades in the making.
EVERTON hold the record for most seasons in the top flight - 109 seasons.
ASTON VILLA are second with 101 seasons in the top flight.
LIVERPOOL are third with 97 seasons in the top flight.
ARSENAL are fourth with 95 seasons in the top flight.
MANCHESTER UNITED are fifth with 87 seasons in the top flight.
The above is the kind of stickability it really takes to build a brand and become a footballing institution like Everton.
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Post by Beloved Monkfish on Dec 9, 2012 16:05:43 GMT
I've always thought of Aston Villa to be on a par with Everton in terms of fanbase, history and general size. However, it could be argued that we've just about passed Villa, who only 3 years ago were challenging for a top 4 spot. Is us catching up with Everton that far fetched? Is it a case of those clubs dropping to our level rather than us catching them up?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Dec 9, 2012 16:08:22 GMT
I've always thought of Aston Villa to be on a par with Everton in terms of fanbase, history and general size. However, it could be argued that we've just about passed Villa, who only 3 years ago were challenging for a top 4 spot. Is us catching up with Everton that far fetched? Is it a case of those clubs dropping to our level rather than us catching them up? That's a decent point. I just think Villa have been terribly run. They sold their stars and didn't replace them wisely. Everton have done. |
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Dec 9, 2012 16:12:19 GMT
Disagree. For a start I think, as I said, we have the better squad. The likes of Naysmith are utter cack. I dont think they do attract better players than us tbh mate. And we also have a lot more money than they do. Problem is we waste it on absurd signings like 10 million quid on a 31 year old who doesnt fit in with the system. We have a far better defence than them and imo the only thing stopping us being comfortably ahead of them in the table is the managers inability to recognise that we need pace in the side. Of course they do, we could only dream of attracting players like Fellaini or Baines. They're a cut above anything we have including Shawcross imo. And why can they? Because they're Everton, they're a name in football, they've won the league loads of time and are one of the most famous clubs in England. We can't compete with that brand. We can compete financially but I still think a player would go to Everton if they were given the same first team opportunites if it meant they earnt a bit less. I would! Why? Everton are just better. We have a better defence in the middle and in goal but their full backs are excellent. And their midfield and strikers shit all over ours. But like You I still think we should win next week but I think if we were playing Real Madrid at home next week we could do them over. Do I think we will finish above them in the table-no! Do I think we're better than Real Madrid? No! I still dont agree ;D Baines and Fellaini are top quality players, but so are Huth and Shawcross. If you name the best 2 players out of any premier league team they are always going to sound good. I wouldnt be surprised at all if we actually finish ahead of them this season. Time will tell. |
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Post by lagwafis on Dec 9, 2012 16:13:15 GMT
I'd say Begovic, Shawcross and Huth vs. Howard, Jagielka and Distin are pretty similar in terms of quality, although our players are all coming up to their peak while Everton's are on the wrong side of thirty and need replacing in the not too distant future. Full back wise Baines would walk into most teams, especially ours.
N'Zonzi would probably be a great addition to their midfield but in terms of creativity and goals Mirallas, Fellaini, Pienaar and Osman alone have outscored our entire team this season while Jelavic is younger and has a better goal to games average over Crouch since he signed last season.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Dec 9, 2012 16:15:01 GMT
I'd say Begovic, Shawcross and Huth vs. Howard, Jagielka and Distin are pretty similar in terms of quality, although our players are all coming up to their peak while Everton's are on the wrong side of thirty and need replacing in the not too distant future. Full back wise Baines would walk into most teams, especially ours. N'Zonzi would probably be a great addition to their midfield but in terms of creativity and goals Mirallas, Fellaini, Pienaar and Osman alone have outscored our entire team this season while Jelavic is younger and has a better goal to games average over Crouch since he signed last season. They probably do shit over us in terms of attacking options..but so do Southampton. The fact is if we beat them next week which I expect us to, then we will be ahead of them in the table half way through the season. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Dec 9, 2012 16:15:34 GMT
Of course they do, we could only dream of attracting players like Fellaini or Baines. They're a cut above anything we have including Shawcross imo. And why can they? Because they're Everton, they're a name in football, they've won the league loads of time and are one of the most famous clubs in England. We can't compete with that brand. We can compete financially but I still think a player would go to Everton if they were given the same first team opportunites if it meant they earnt a bit less. I would! Why? Everton are just better. We have a better defence in the middle and in goal but their full backs are excellent. And their midfield and strikers shit all over ours. But like You I still think we should win next week but I think if we were playing Real Madrid at home next week we could do them over. Do I think we will finish above them in the table-no! Do I think we're better than Real Madrid? No! I still dont agree ;D Baines and Fellaini are top quality players, but so are Huth and Shawcross. If you name the best 2 players out of any premier league team they are always going to sound good. I wouldnt be surprised at all if we actually finish ahead of them this season. Time will tell. I think Baines and Fellaini are just a lil bit better. Not much but better none the less. Well yeah and they're part of what make Everton a bit better side than us!  I would be, I'd love it but I think Everton should finish in the top 6 this season. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Dec 9, 2012 16:17:15 GMT
I'd say Begovic, Shawcross and Huth vs. Howard, Jagielka and Distin are pretty similar in terms of quality, although our players are all coming up to their peak while Everton's are on the wrong side of thirty and need replacing in the not too distant future. Full back wise Baines would walk into most teams, especially ours. N'Zonzi would probably be a great addition to their midfield but in terms of creativity and goals Mirallas, Fellaini, Pienaar and Osman alone have outscored our entire team this season while Jelavic is younger and has a better goal to games average over Crouch since he signed last season. They probably do shit over us in terms of attacking options..but so do Southampton. The fact is if we beat them next week which I expect us to, then we will be ahead of them in the table half way through the season. Which is a fantastic achievement. But we're still not in the same bracket and never probably will be. |
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