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Post by JR on Feb 5, 2004 12:03:11 GMT
Not being picky Smudge but wasn't the "No Surrender" in 1689 on the banks of the Foyle? ;D Get your facts right. There are some fantastic murals depicting the battle in Derry. (fantastically painted i mean)
RAF I apologise for the better than Davro outburst
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Post by Admin on Feb 5, 2004 12:14:02 GMT
JR,
The "No Surrender" thing most definitely dates back to King James' Siege of Londonderry (Derry to those who prefer it that way) in 1688/89. It was the reply given by the Protestant defenders when he and his Catholic Army demanded entry to the city... or at least that's the legend. The seige lasted 105 days, between 7th December to 31st July.
Agree about the Murals... some of them, from both sides of the divide are amazing... surprising how many talented artists there are in Northern Ireland.
Like I said originally though; I'll be glad when we start to leave the legacy of the past behind and devote more attention to the future. People should never dismiss their history and heritage but neither should they let it hold them back, not allow it to cloud their judgement of people they don't know.
Smudge
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Post by JR on Feb 5, 2004 12:24:56 GMT
I often wonder how these graffiti artists never get caught. Northern Ireland is rife with them. How can you not notice some dude doing a masterpiece like that on the side of your house. one night you go to bed and next morning there's King James in all his glory etc....I once sprayed The clash on a bus shelter as a younger chap and you should have seen how quick the police car arrived. The Ulster Constabulary should take note. I mean look.....
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Post by RAF on Feb 5, 2004 12:31:54 GMT
JR your forgiven for your Blasphemy!!! ;D
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Post by Robo10 on Feb 5, 2004 12:33:34 GMT
A bit more advanced than "The Thing '87" in Tippex then...
;D
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Feb 5, 2004 12:34:04 GMT
You canna deny there's some talent there though JR. If only they learnt to do it on paper and not on the side of some poor buggers house ;D I'm still hoping one day I'll wake up and find some buggers drawn a ten foot shrine to Ade on the side of my house ;D It'd scare off some of them knob heads that come round and try and sell us double glazing
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Post by JR on Feb 5, 2004 12:39:21 GMT
Why not just paint "I bugger double glazing salesmen" in 10 ft letters. Bet they'll think twice then.
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Feb 5, 2004 12:46:53 GMT
But I was planning to have big scary picture of Ade and then underneath the words:
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Post by StokieSC on Feb 5, 2004 22:26:02 GMT
This still going?
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Post by JR on Feb 5, 2004 22:34:11 GMT
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Post by hellsbells on Feb 5, 2004 22:59:23 GMT
Joe and JR....and pricey (small p) Very often 'one' finds 'ones self' caught up in a chant... in my salad years I was certainly guilty of this... however we now live in a Gobal Comunity and will have to live side by side with differing factions...does that sound racist..I hope not. For years my children have been taunted with "where are ya Bibles" just because they go to a Catholic school. I make no comment on this apart from if thought it was one of my children being so racsist on religious grounds I'd have given 'em a swift smack! A dear friends children once commented on the fact that they were playing 'The Catholics'..we discussed it and decided that the Media were at fault..after all the children in question are true mates! If I could wish just one thing..(apart from winning 20,000,000 on lotterey) then it would be that we could all just live together and be tolerant of each others needs and wants. I wish... Hxx
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Post by Robo10 on Feb 5, 2004 23:03:17 GMT
Posted this on the other board - Smeegs is thinking of not posting anymore, which is a shame - The whole post has kinda pointed the finger at him due to the title (which wasn't meant to become such a hot topic!) - It is meant as a go at those that do participate in Sectarian/Racist chanting at MY club... _________________________________________ Smeegs I'm sorry if the whole post has grown as it has with you being associated with it - It just pissed me off to see it when I saw one of your posts The general discussion about the song/chants etc has been a good one, so at least take solace in the fact that you provoked a good conversation! I don't know you (although I have seen you play in nets, but lets not talk about that...), but I don't imagine for a minute that you are some Nazi hooligan - I did put on the original post that it was probably done for a bit of fun rather than anything malicious without much thought - I certainly didn't expect 100 posts and over 1000 views! (I half expected more 'freedom of speech' type replies!) No hard feelings kiddo, and lets face it, in a week we will all be falling out over whether Greenacre is any good or not again..
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Post by JR on Feb 5, 2004 23:10:11 GMT
Hells yep but not really the issue, I dont think the guy who posted this had a real idea what he was referring to as his flag suggested.
The main reason for the point I was making as this song hs no bearing what what THEY THINK they're singing about. it's a song created by someone who has no sense of history and is obviously clueless.
Why sing sectarian songs referring to a war in another City in another country 145 years ago at a Stoke game?
Being from one or other side of the divide is ot really the point being made...It seems the instigator is unsure himself hence the avatar.
Save it for the old Firm.
As you know I'm impartial
unlucky Rangers btw ;D
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Post by hellsbells on Feb 6, 2004 1:46:44 GMT
JR
I do have more than the average grasp of the Irish history.... The point of my post was that sectariasm is well alive here ...but without the kids knowing why...or grasping the impliacations of their 'taunts'
I myself have religion both Roman and Anglican 'thrust' upon me all my life....and now have what I consider a balanced veiw. ???
Hxx
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Post by StokieSC on Feb 6, 2004 7:48:07 GMT
It seems the instigator is unsure himself hence the avatar. JR what exactly have i instigated? You all persume i know nothing on Northen Ireland and its troubles, so have automatically jumped at my throat
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Post by JoeinOz on Feb 6, 2004 11:28:01 GMT
Smeegs, the fact is that its a song that thugs use to celebrate their togetherness and presence.
Its distasteful from a football perspective regardlesss of the issue of sectarianism. You are not a thug so why use a symbol of their hatred as your m/b emblem?
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Post by romfordstokie on Feb 6, 2004 11:56:53 GMT
The fact you have some knowledge of Irish history (and the troubles in general) in no way mitigates the fact that this was an ill-conceived AVTAR with which some people were understandably going to have issues. Its about as relevant as having a trophy AVTAR on the Crewe messageboard.
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Post by JR on Feb 6, 2004 12:03:15 GMT
Smeegs have scrolled back and am struggling to find the comment where "I presume" you know nothing about the history. I said I don't seem to understand the relevance of the flag and the logo you posted together, I also said that whoever created this chant as an anti IRA chant has very little grasp of history either.
You did say that you will see "No Surrender" under several murals in Ulster, of course you will. Is that reason to introduce it here?
If it was meant as an act of defiance to a terrorist organisation then fair enough, everyone is entitled to an opinion but that's not what your message portrays . I think if someone had done the same on the other side of the divide there would have been equal reason to remove it. Doesn't belong at football games. The last think we want is nonsense like this being introduced.
Probably the last person to preach being PC etc but I can't for the life of me see what you were trying to achieve or prove. If you were looking for folk to say...well done Smeegs I'm with you, the IRA are murdering bastards etc then ok....doesn't look like they have though. There will be sheep who will join in the song etc but some folk will sing anything. Walk into " O'Neills" in Glasgow and be defiant to those you oppose....tell them how it is in your opinion. Their clubs are riddled with sectarianism. that would be an act of bravery rather than a few kids singing songs on the terraces.
I see you've replaced the UDA flag ( that's what it was) with a George Cross and a message.
I think the answer is no one will complain about that. It is for a start a flag of a country and not a symbol of terrorism.
Can we talk football?
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Post by Admin on Feb 6, 2004 12:21:23 GMT
I agree with that last sentiment JR - can we just talk football!?
Smeegs is a cracking youth and if he made an error of judgment (and that's for him to decide, not me) then he's not the first and he won't be the last. He has his beliefs, I have mine and everyone else has theirs. Time to bury this one I think.
That's not to duck an issue worth discussing but there's nowt to be gained now by pursuing this too much. We've all had our ay and there's not a lot of placesleft to go with this.
Cheers,
Smudge
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Feb 6, 2004 13:11:54 GMT
Good call Smudge and JR.
We've had 8 pages of discussions on this subject. I reckons thats enough!!! Everyone who wants to have thier say has had chance now let's draw a line under this thread and move on.
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Post by Robo10 on Feb 6, 2004 13:14:51 GMT
THIS THREAD
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Feb 6, 2004 13:17:25 GMT
There's always one!!!! I'm trying to end this thread and here you are carrying on, in the same way I am now.......doh!!!! Right no-one post after this post or you......................smell
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Post by jaykaye on Feb 7, 2004 10:57:16 GMT
Well I don't smell ;D
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Post by JvdsFace on Feb 7, 2004 12:57:10 GMT
Yes you do, when did you last change that spiderman suit ? ;D
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