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Post by Davef on Oct 11, 2008 23:10:09 GMT
When Mills took over in 1985 he asked to be judged after four years in the job. After four years in the job he had clearly proved himself to be not good enough. He arrogantly claimed that it would take £1M to get Stoke promoted, yet when he was given it, his team got worse. I really don't see what relevance Port Vale has to the Mick Mills debate?
We were making absolutely no progress under Mills. We'd had a great run from October 1986 to February 1987, but from then until his dismissal it was one failure after another. Like I said in the previous post, he won just two of his last 30 games in charge.
The Oatcake was borne out of the frustration of Mills' continual failures, particularly losing a League Cup tie to Leyton Orient. We urged the board not to award him a contract in the summer of 1989, criticised them for doing so, and then called for his dismissal after the 6-0 defeat at Swindon.
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Post by gordonmarshall on Oct 11, 2008 23:27:44 GMT
I was at the League Cup defeat vs Orient,both legs.We lost on penalties.Peter Beagrie if i remember lost the tie infront of the boothen end.After that ther was a stupid demonstration,most laughed because it was that stupid.Still finished nowhere near the relegation zone tough.
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Post by gordonmarshall on Oct 11, 2008 23:41:23 GMT
Ok Davef,Like i say mucka i am not chasing trouble.I remember being in the old programme shop at the Victoria ground and Ken Marek told Smudge it was not the right time to "Chase Mills".But the early editions of the oatcake did.No sensible stoke fan wanted Mills out,WHY?
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Post by gordonmarshall on Oct 11, 2008 23:58:51 GMT
Come on lads,if i am wrong i will apologise.Thing is you know i'm right.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2008 0:56:57 GMT
Completely disagree regarding the Vale theory. Whilst it was interesting to see the great unwashed emerge into the second flight, any rivalry was in the Vale minds. It most certainly wasn't on the terraces, let alone the directors box.
The fact that Mills got the big bucks that season was pure and simple - Coates' businesses (Stadia Catering and the betting shops) were bringing home the bacon. Stadia Catering in particular was winning contracts left right and centre thanks to Coates ingratiating himself with the FA - I seem to recall they even had the Wembley catering contract.
Football was a very different era back then - only two chairman in the footbal league made a profit out of the game and Coates was one of them.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2008 1:02:14 GMT
PS. As for Mills, I thank him for that free-scoring run in 86/87. The rest was somewhat average but he had to go after that 6-0 loss to WBA.
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Post by JoeinOz on Oct 12, 2008 4:31:45 GMT
He went on too long. It was obvious in the middle of 88/89 he didn't have what it took to get us competitive on that division. The board made a cowardly decision by renewing his contract then a lazy decision by appointing Ball. This all led to relegation to the dungeon.
The winter of 86/87 saw us play some of the most breathtaking nogger we'd played for years. Blowtorching teams off the pitch. That great spell was what kept him in the job longer than he deserved.
Overall Mills just seemed too nice to be a successful manager.
Here's some classic Mills situations and quotes. Anyone remember anymore??
We need one more piece in the jigsaw
Its just a one off
The insistence on Tony Ford being in the team.
The Kevin Moran fiasco
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Post by sheikhmomo on Oct 12, 2008 8:30:37 GMT
The good bits were precious few but they were quite good. The emergence of Neil Adams early in his reign and the side he put together which shone briefly in 86/87. I remember Steve Coppell being very complimentary after we'd destroyed Palarse in a Cup Match.
In the end he ran out of ideas and blew what at the time, for Stoke, was a decent transfer pot. He should never be remembered in the same way as Macari is and Pulis will be nor though should he ever be remembered in the same way as the lamenatable, Ball
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Post by ColonelMustard on Oct 12, 2008 8:41:46 GMT
"I think he got a job at Colchester, but didn't last long there. He was finished as a Football League manager at the age of 41."
Didn't he take them out of the football league(albeit doomed when he arrived), then went to manage the Kuwait national team just before Saddam invaded or is my memory romanticising his demise. Enough to finish anyone if so.
Also if I recall Mickie 'more time' gave himself three years to get us back up so pretty much signed his own execution.
Must say though I've recently thought of the job he did with renewed admiration for some reason.
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Post by goodjobson on Oct 12, 2008 9:23:28 GMT
The argument about him signing Cranson and Biggins is interesting.
Yes he did sign these players and was unlucky that Cranson was injury prone at the time.
However, to say that Macari 'benefited' from his signings is to miss the point.
Macari knew what to do with them and how to get the best out of them, Mills didn't, and despite making good signings he didn't have what it takes to take them, or ultimately the club, to a higher level. Thats why he left, I too think that Vale's 'glory years' starting at that time was irrelevant.
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Post by goodjobson on Oct 12, 2008 9:26:56 GMT
Mustard,
He also had a stint at Birmingham under Trevor 'Straight Jacket' Francis.
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Post by tony harrison on Oct 12, 2008 9:30:55 GMT
I thought we played some of the best flowing attacking football during the Mick Mills era.
This did not continue throughout all of his time as manager of Stoke City and he left.
It was good while it lasted though. Would love to see the same type of football being played today but not much chance of that really.
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Post by JoeinOz on Oct 12, 2008 9:50:13 GMT
Yes he did sign these players and was unlucky that Cranson was injury prone at the time.
When Cranson signed it was known that he had a bad injury record and every part of his body was insured apart from his dodgy knee.
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Post by lordb on Oct 12, 2008 10:09:44 GMT
Mills is a gentleman & has many attributes to be a fine manager:great eye for a player,likes to play attacking football with two wingers & a ball playing midfielder,insisted on a return to stripes & a great tache.
however,discipline & motivational skills were zero.
also had a big flaw re strikers.
Peter Coates didnt become chairman until after Mills appointment but his first mistake was to not sack him after that 6.0 @ WBA,his second mistake was to give him a new contract & £1m to spend when that money would have been best kept back for a new manager.
Mills wasnt anywhere near as bad as Ball or Little but he had to go!
incidently those who think TP got stick in his first spell either cant remember or wernt there when Mills was getting the bird,full on abuse for two years.
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Post by JoeinOz on Oct 12, 2008 11:29:21 GMT
We always did well in autumn. Just well enough to keep the season alive and the feint hope of a play off place.
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Post by JoeinOz on Oct 12, 2008 12:15:18 GMT
The overall word that comes when I think about Mills time in charge is frustration.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Oct 12, 2008 12:18:02 GMT
The overall word that comes when I think about Mills time in charge is frustration. and Jigsaw and Sammy and Chung
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Post by goodjobson on Oct 12, 2008 12:48:22 GMT
12 Graham Shaw (sub)
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2008 13:53:57 GMT
Mills never saved Colchester Mick McDonough got them promoted from the Conference where the Mills/Ball management skills sent them from Div 4 (as it was then).
Mills was good for 2 seasons, he steadied Stoke then should have gone, but when a Chairman sees things turn for the better they like us believed things were going to improve, 86/87 when we were winning lots of games with hi score margins, Stoke featured everywhere even on the telly. Mills became our saviour, but hindsight is a great thing.
It is a shame cause as a player he was brilliant as a manager he just didnt have that extra and ultimately we paid for that.
In truth the Mills era is the forgotten era, a time between relgations 85 and 90. We all remember Asprey and Ball but inbetween was Mills and we as fans have forgotten that he existed, and that shows how good/bad a manager he was, it was bland boring and fans left in their thousands.
Standing on the boothen with enough space bewtween supporters I remember watching 2 young lads play football whilst the game was on thats how interesting Mills football teams had become
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Post by scfc75 on Oct 12, 2008 14:01:46 GMT
I started supporting Stoke during the Mills era, around '87 / '88 I think - therefore my only memories are of mediocrity. I didn't really see the stabilisation that took place following relegation and can only really remember average football by average players, poor crowds, subsequently followed by relegation under Alan Ball.
Why the hell did I carry on supporting Stoke?????!
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Post by bournvillepotter08 on Oct 12, 2008 16:10:36 GMT
Good discussion - really brings back the memories, good and bad.
One good memory is the 1-0 win at Villa Park in 1988. At the time I thought the Bould-Beeston central defensive partnership could have really been good. Injuries and Arsenal obviously meant it was never to be.....
But yes, MM had gone past his sell by date by 1989
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Post by titanic on Oct 12, 2008 16:25:08 GMT
An interesting debate, but think Davef has got it spot on. Mills steadied the ship, but from 87 onwards, he didn't push the club forward. Infact, we just peddled in mid-table and at the end, the mounting pressures were too much for him, as we sunk towards the bottom. He became 'Mr Inconsistency'. We'd occasionally play with flair, with two wingers and win some thrilling games (beating Man City 3-1 on Boxing Day, for instance), and we could occasionally put up a fight against the best in the land as in the FA Cup versus Liverpool. However, we were also very prone to taking a number of big hammerings (who can forget being on a good run in Autumn '88, which was then followed by the sequence of a 4-0 hammering at Leeds, 3-0 defeat at home to Chelsea and the absymal 6-0 at WBA?). For the first time in my life, Stoke seemed to take a fair share of hammerings under Mills. Then there were the predictable dismal defeats to the likes of Bradford, Shrewsbury and Oldham. As for Mills not having the finance to take the club forward, that didn't seem to stop the likes of Millwall, Swindon and Oldham (all of whom had a lower profile/less money) rising to the top flight at the time. It was an interesting, but ultimately frustrating period and as others have pointed out, MM should have gone around the summer of 88.
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Post by swampySCFC on Oct 12, 2008 19:52:16 GMT
An interesting debate, but think Davef has got it spot on. Mills steadied the ship, but from 87 onwards, he didn't push the club forward. Infact, we just peddled in mid-table and at the end, the mounting pressures were too much for him, as we sunk towards the bottom. He became 'Mr Inconsistency'. We'd occasionally play with flair, with two wingers and win some thrilling games (beating Man City 3-1 on Boxing Day, for instance), and we could occasionally put up a fight against the best in the land as in the FA Cup versus Liverpool. However, we were also very prone to taking a number of big hammerings (who can forget being on a good run in Autumn '88, which was then followed by the sequence of a 4-0 hammering at Leeds, 3-0 defeat at home to Chelsea and the absymal 6-0 at WBA?). For the first time in my life, Stoke seemed to take a fair share of hammerings under Mills. Then there were the predictable dismal defeats to the likes of Bradford, Shrewsbury and Oldham. As for Mills not having the finance to take the club forward, that didn't seem to stop the likes of Millwall, Swindon and Oldham (all of whom had a lower profile/less money) rising to the top flight at the time. It was an interesting, but ultimately frustrating period and as others have pointed out, MM should have gone around the summer of 88. In that baggies defeat did Crookes get a hat trick???
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Post by Soi Cowboy on Oct 13, 2008 3:21:55 GMT
Firstly I don't think Port Vale climbing the table had anything to do with Mills having money to spend- put that to bed straight away.
There was a spell under Mills where we played some of the best stuff I ever saw Stoke play. We were looking nailed on for a play off place- we faced a great Palace side with Wright and Bright and beat them 3-1 in a cracking game at the Vic and I remember leaving that game thinking we were going uo. In fact 'Sportsnight' did a feature on that season's potential play offs with Stoke as the main focus. The Ipswich game the next week was called off which was a real blow as we were on fire and were one of those teams we were chasing. Sadly it went wrong- we beat Sunderland at home then wobbled at the end. Was a great team- Mills bought well- snatched Beagrie from under a few team's noses and Cranson came in of course, Biggins from City and the odd journeyman, Brian Talbot, Tony Henry etc. Nicky Morgan was scoring goals and Carl Saunders came good.
A 4-1 defeat at WBA and Saunders picking up an injury although he played the next week v Coventry in the FA Cup stopped a great run. A real good side, think we won 7 on the bounce at home and despite falling away at the end there were high hopes for next season which sadly never happened.
As for the inconsistent point above -pretty sure we beat Man City 3-1 after that awful 6-0 defeat at Swindon. John Butler made his debut that day. City had a fantastic side then. Sure someone will correct me if wrong.
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Post by mark71 on Oct 13, 2008 10:12:02 GMT
I've got to agree with most people on here, Mills did a great job when first came to the club, everyone thought we were going to go through the league like a does of salt's but he gave us stability what he couldn't give us was a side that could sustain any kind of promotion form. The decision to give him a contract in 89 was unbelievable. A new man with fresh ideas should of been brought in.
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Post by JoeinOz on Oct 13, 2008 10:14:01 GMT
Graham Shaw was a better prospect than David Platt
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Post by broadwayroundabout on Oct 13, 2008 10:50:52 GMT
MILLS OUT
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Post by JoeinOz on Oct 13, 2008 10:57:54 GMT
"Phuq off back to Ipswich"
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Post by mark71 on Oct 13, 2008 11:09:39 GMT
i felt sick every time i saw David platt play. God what a fuckin tool. mind you Platt is the first of a very long line of quality players to come out of Crwho and we've missed the Bloody lot of them
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Post by sheikhmomo on Oct 13, 2008 11:10:30 GMT
i felt sick every time i saw David platt play. God what a fuckin tool. mind you Platt is the first of a very long line of quality players to come out of Crwho and we've missed the Bloody lot of them Nonsense, don't you remeber Paul Rennie...........me neither
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