Query re season tickets

[bunny]

Firstly, just let me make it known that I'm absolutely delighted at todays news.

But will this move increase attendances?

Let me explain. This initiative really benefits those who a) buy season tickets and b) go to most home games. If you're in category a or b then you're sorted. But what about matchday prices? We may sell 11,000 season tickets but this increase might just be the regular STH's plus those that go regularly who've taken up the offer.

It does mean money in the bank, but does this really attract 'floaters' that maybe can't go to more than a few games? Won't it simply mean more STH's in exactly thesame crowds?

If this initiative is backed up by cutting the cost of pay-on-the-day then superb, but will we attract bigger gates if our matchday prices remain at £19 for the cheapest tickets.

There are also people who would want a season ticket
but simply cannot afford to save £200 in 3 months.

Maybe I'm just being thick, but I don't see us gaining substantially bigger crowds until matchday prices are brought down as well. This isn't a dig at the club on a day when they've made thousands of Stokies very happy. I just think that all supporters should be given incentives of some sort if we are to fully realise our potential fan-base.


What do you think?

Bunny

[Lakeland Potter]

Tel covers this on one of the later pages on the main thread above. The theory (I think) is that more ST holders produces a snowball effect generating interest from pay by the game customers. There is no doubt that a fullish stadium enhances the match day experience for me.

I think/hope we have not seen the end of the initiatives for next season. I still hope for some sort of pre purchase scheme of 5 or 10 tickets (at reduced prices)for students and exiles and those whose work committments mean they can't make every game. Plymouth Argyle are one club who do this sucessfully.

[bunny]

Fornside,

Cheers mate, didn't see Tels reply.

Yup, there may be a snowball effect but i reckon this won't be until we are in a decent position next season/had a run like the one we're on now.

With our new signings last Summer and that incredible day against reading fresh in the memory we still had p*sspoor crowds for the first few home matches.

A snowball effect is more likely to work in a more economically vibrant area IMHO - nothinggets people into grounds like a winning team and/or decent prices.

Bunny

[Lakeland Potter]

True about the start of this season Bunny. But I can't ever remember such a strange mood amongst Stokies as last pre-season. We had lost almost a full team last June and had hardly signed anyone and our pre-season games were as poor as anyone can remember.

Its amazing that any pay on the day customers turned up at all - without the win at Derby we could have seen a crowd of 10k for the first home match - such was the sense of gloom and forboding!

[tel2u]

Bunny

All the records prove that the more season ticket holders there are then the more 'floating' supporters are attracted.

Stokes ticket pricing policy for match day sales is no different to a lot of other Clubs, who charge extra for tickets sold on the day.

[adesgonnagetyer]

Bunny, I share your reservations almost word-for-word re matchday pricing.

Not disputing the general 'snowball trend', if that's what the records show, but it may be difficult to get the snowball rolling quickly charging £19 in an area as uniquely depressed as Stoke.

I can't overstate how bold and pleasing the ST prices are though - I just hope sufficient numbers of our floating support feel the urge (and can afford) to get the £200 together in time for the deadline,and join the ranks of STHs, so don't have to face the prospect of unjustifiable £19 tkts.

Hopefully, we'll blitz through the 8500 mark, and kick on towards 11/12000? ;D

[browneyedboy]

TEL2U said:

All the records prove that the more season ticket holders there are then the more 'floating' supporters are attracted.

Let me first say that I have not seen the records on which this theory is based.

However, to look through the records and see that when season ticket sales have been high, floating support has also been high, and attribute the latter as a direct consequence of the former is, IMHO, fatally flawed.

I'm sure that there are many many reasons why floating support should be high at times coinciding with high season ticket sales. Optimism is one. Low prices (of both ST's and matchday tickets) another. A "star" player who people want to watch may have been bought. Economic reasons, e.g. low interest rates resulting in lower morgages resulting in more disposable cash in households is another possible reason. The list goes on. To simply say "more season ticket holders equals more floating support" is, IMHO, rather foolish.

What I'm saying is that each case in which both ST and floating support have been high (and, conversely, when both have been low) should be evaluated based on the set of circumstances which surrounded that period in time. Those same circumstances may or may not exist now.

I do think there is some merit to theory that increasing season ticket numbers increases overall support. Let me give an example. Suppose there are 6000 ST holders and average home gates are 14000, leaving, on average, 8000 floating supporters turning up at a game. Some of the floating supporters will have been to, say, 18 out of the 23 home league games and some will have been to 5 (note that I don't mean the 5 games that the others didn't atttend...I'm talking averages here). Therefore, if the people who went to 18 (or 17 or 16, etc.) matches were persuaded to buy season tickets, thereby attending all 23 home games a season, that will produce a small increase in attendances, because they will now be attending 5 (or 6 or 7, etc.) more games a season while those who attended, say, 5 games a season will probably still attend those games. I'm sure a statistion with a suitable system set up could play around with numbers and produce a reasonably accurate prediction based on this model.

Of course, there is the theory that season ticket holders will encourage their friends to go, but I see that only having a minimal effect when the limiting factor in attendance for many people is the price.

There is also the theory that there is a psychological effect whereby larger attendances breed larger attendances simply because going to matches becomes "the thing to do". But, again, when for many people price is the limiting factor, I see this having little effect.

I would be surprised if having 10,000 ST holders boosted average attendances by more than about 1000. Sure, that's a welcome extra 1000 people, but it's nothing radical.

Lower season ticket prices are a great thing, but lower matchday prices are the key ingredient to significantly boosting support.

Actually, there is a larger, more complex marketing issue relevant to football as a whole, one that I think that many clubs, particularly those located in low-wage areas, have failed to appreciate. It all comes down the way the club segments the market and then the market segment it chooses to aim it's product (prices, etc.) at. But I'm too tired to go into that now, so maybe I'll write about it another day.

[adesgonnagetyer]

Excellent discussion of the problem, Dave.

I fear you may be right.The ST pricing is wonderful, but will it significantly boost attendances without associated recuctions in matchday pricing.

While we all revel in the very generous ST offers, will the club as a whole actually progress, and capitalise on the reductions - which must be the bottom line?.

[browneyedboy]

Finchy said:

While we all revel in the very generous ST offers, will the club as a whole actually progress, and capitalise on the reductions - which must be the bottom line?.

My main fear is that the club's high hopes for increased floating support as a result of increased ST holders will not materialise to the extent they had hoped. In this situation, come this time next year, the club may just decide to put prices back up again, and having 1 cheap year might possibly do more long term harm than good, because those who had bought one simply because of the cheap price will not renew and ccould actually attend less matches than they did before the cheap season tickets.

I don't know what the break even point is, but if floating support does not increase significantly the club will lose money compared to the current season. I mean, £200 for a season ticket is roughly equivalent to 10 or 11 matches at this season's matchday prices. If all the people who went to 15 or more games decide to get season tickets as a way of saving money, the club will lose out. Not only that, but the club will lose money through previous season ticket holders now paying significantly less.

The club's real problem is not getting more season ticket holders at a price reduction, but attracting people who attend less than 5 games a season to go more often.

I guess that, in the worst case, the cheap season ticket prices will exist for one season, so we can't really grumble.