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Post by mermaidsal on Jul 20, 2009 18:13:47 GMT
Is this scary or is this scary? www.thelondonpaper.com/thelondonpaper/news/gary-reinbach-dies-after-being-denied-transplantPoor guy. So hard to decide whether they should or shouldn't have stretched the rules to give him the chance of a new liver but it's too late for him now. I hate to be a killjoy and I like a drink as much as the next woman but I've nursed patients with liver failure, never so young though. The levels of binge drinking we regard as 'normal' now AREN'T normal, this poor lad's only one of the casualties. |
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Post by salopstick on Jul 20, 2009 18:32:34 GMT
They said he was too unwell to be sent home – and was unable to comply with strict transplant criteria which requires a drying-out spell of at least six months before organs are donated.
i know it is a disease and this would have been hard for him but he should have complied
its a damn shame
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Post by serpico on Jul 20, 2009 18:41:53 GMT
They said he was too unwell to be sent home – and was unable to comply with strict transplant criteria which requires a drying-out spell of at least six months before organs are donated. i know it is a disease and this would have been hard for him but he should have complied its a damn shame How could he comply ? he didn't have long enough left to live, did he ? or am i misreading it ?. |
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Post by salopstick on Jul 20, 2009 18:43:29 GMT
i may be mis reading it serps. either way he did not wake up one morning with massive cirrohis
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Post by french toast on Jul 20, 2009 18:44:18 GMT
sorry but he chose to drink their are more deserving the parents should have been better parents and stopped him drinking how was he getting algohol at 11there is no way he didnt know sorry but if one rule applies to someone else it has to apply to everyoneif he was too far gone chances are he would have died anywayhis body was already shutting down harsh but people need to take responsibility for their stupid actions you cant make it everyones else fault
this sums it up for me
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Post by serpico on Jul 20, 2009 18:45:57 GMT
Very harsh rule if you ask me, I think it's awful they just let people die like this  |
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Post by salopstick on Jul 20, 2009 18:49:16 GMT
serps there are only so many livers, george best would not have had one if he wernt besty
like any donations surely the most deserving should get it
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Post by serpico on Jul 20, 2009 18:53:15 GMT
why is he not deserving of one ? because he was an alcoholic ? ... I guess it all depends on how you feel about alcoholism, imo it's a disease .
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Post by lawrieleslie on Jul 20, 2009 18:53:41 GMT
The liver is a remarkable organ that can regenerate itself from the point of destruction if whatever is destroying it is removed. A liver works entirely satisfactorily even when only 30% is functioning. Go below that level and rapid deteriortion happens until complete failure.
The moral of this is that, if you think that you are starting to suffer from reduced liver function, due to alcohol consumption, then even a moderate reduction in intake will have a very positive effect on this organ.
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Post by french toast on Jul 20, 2009 18:57:57 GMT
why is he not deserving of one ? because he was an alcoholic ? ... I guess it all depends on how you feel about alcoholism, imo it's a disease . i dont agree that its a disease, a disease is something that you had no control over getting, alcoholism isnt oe of those, just my opinion mate |
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Post by salopstick on Jul 20, 2009 19:01:08 GMT
if you were god who would give it to
an alchoholic or some normal guy who's liver had failed
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Post by Meggsy on Jul 20, 2009 19:05:24 GMT
Alcoholism becomes a disease it becomes an addiction just like drugs and a very difficult path to get off.
alcoholism is a mental obsession that causes a physical compulsion to drink.
Did you ever wake up in the morning with a song playing over and over in your head? It might have been a commercial jingle you heard on television, or a song from the radio, but it kept playing ... and playing and playing.
Remember what that was like? No matter what you did, that silly tune kept on playing. You could try to whistle or sing another song or turn on the radio and listen to another tune, but the one in your head just kept on playing. Think about it. There was something going on in your mind that you didn't put there and, no matter how hard you tried, couldn't get out!
That is an example of a simple mental obsession -- a thought process over which you have no control. Such is the nature of the disease of alcoholism. When the drinking "song" starts playing in the mind of an alcoholic, he is powerless. He didn't put the song there and the only way to get it to stop is to take another drink.
The problem is the alcoholic's mental obsession with alcohol is much more subtle than a song playing in his mind. In fact, he may not even know it's there. All he knows is he suddenly has an urge to take a drink, a physical compulsion to drink.
Compounding the problem is the progressive nature of the disease. In its early stages, taking one or two drinks may be all it takes to get the "song" to stop. But soon it takes six or seven and later maybe ten or twelve. Somewhere down the road the only time the song stops is when he passes out.
The progression of the disease is so subtle and usually takes place over such an extended period of time, that even the alcoholic himself failed to notice the point at which he lost control and alcohol took over his life.
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Post by thepremierbanksy on Jul 20, 2009 19:38:01 GMT
Is this scary or is this scary? www.thelondonpaper.com/thelondonpaper/news/gary-reinbach-dies-after-being-denied-transplantPoor guy. So hard to decide whether they should or shouldn't have stretched the rules to give him the chance of a new liver but it's too late for him now. I hate to be a killjoy and I like a drink as much as the next woman but I've nursed patients with liver failure, never so young though. The levels of binge drinking we regard as 'normal' now AREN'T normal, this poor lad's only one of the casualties. Is this binge drinking though, Sal? If this were a 22 yo who had just been going down the pub and getting plastered 3 times a week since 16 then then it would be scary as fuck considering how many kids do that*. The report (from one of the wankest papers going i might add) suggests he's been suffering from full-blown alcoholism since around 11. This fellow seems to be a special case really, hence the fact he is in the news for being refused a transplant - probably a good decision really, what chance has he got of drying up after 11 years of addiction at the age of 22? fuck all. *these people are predicted to be a bomb that goes off in their 30-40s, and you are indeed correct that levels of drinking aren't normal. Young folk have an insuppressible sense of invincibility in these respects, the question of whether the youth of today are any worse than their parents is debatable, although it seems certain that young women are far worse than their mothers. |
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Post by beagriestache on Jul 20, 2009 20:22:14 GMT
I think alcoholism is a disease since most experts agree that there is a significant genetic component, so in a sense you could liken it to other genetic diseases which manifest themselves in harmful behaviours.
Having said that, I do think a lot of his problem resulted from sh*t parenting as others have said. I notice that his mother is doing a lot of the complaining. Call me harsh but I'd like to have seen exactly how she was reacting while he was off getting hammered at 13. Quite possibly just happy that he was out of her hair? Do "sweet, normal boys with a heart of gold" go out getting sh*tfaced on a regular basis from 13? That's not my definition of sweet and normal.
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Post by Northy on Jul 20, 2009 20:44:12 GMT
alcoholic and obviously fed on junk food, surely the parents should be brought into question here?
It'sa shame for him but any liver should go to more deserving cases who would probably respect what they have been given a bit more, just my opinion.
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Post by santy on Jul 20, 2009 20:48:32 GMT
At the end of the day, handing out organs isn't as easy as handing out tablets, which there are still restrictions on. You can go out and produce more tablets, organs not so easily done, and there's no guarantee if he had been given it, that he wouldn't have thought to celebrate it go down the pub and drink 15 pints.
Usually though, when anyone dies early you will always see the "nice person" lines etc which aren't always true, a case in point was a lad died around here a couple years ago, and I remember in the paper his mother saying how he was a decent person, kind n all that stuff, I knew him well enough to know it was far from the truth - threatening people, attacking people in groups etc all from an early age. After that never put much stock in the quotes of people who knew them after that.
End of the day though, you can't save everyone, and some people are lost causes for whatever reason. He could have helped himself at any point down the years from 16 onwards really and even before then.
Ultimately, self destruction on this scale I have little sympathy for, you can rationalise anything as a disease based on certain criteria, 98% or so of the human gene pool is the same, we all have similar pre-dispositions, some people just make the consciencious effort to control them better than others.
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Post by salopstick on Jul 20, 2009 20:54:38 GMT
i wonder if he is on the organ list for his good organs
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Post by bondygodfatherleek on Jul 20, 2009 20:58:39 GMT
Alcoholism becomes a disease it becomes an addiction just like drugs and a very difficult path to get off. alcoholism is a mental obsession that causes a physical compulsion to drink. Did you ever wake up in the morning with a song playing over and over in your head? It might have been a commercial jingle you heard on television, or a song from the radio, but it kept playing ... and playing and playing. Remember what that was like? No matter what you did, that silly tune kept on playing. You could try to whistle or sing another song or turn on the radio and listen to another tune, but the one in your head just kept on playing. Think about it. There was something going on in your mind that you didn't put there and, no matter how hard you tried, couldn't get out! That is an example of a simple mental obsession -- a thought process over which you have no control. Such is the nature of the disease of alcoholism. When the drinking "song" starts playing in the mind of an alcoholic, he is powerless. He didn't put the song there and the only way to get it to stop is to take another drink. The problem is the alcoholic's mental obsession with alcohol is much more subtle than a song playing in his mind. In fact, he may not even know it's there. All he knows is he suddenly has an urge to take a drink, a physical compulsion to drink. Compounding the problem is the progressive nature of the disease. In its early stages, taking one or two drinks may be all it takes to get the "song" to stop. But soon it takes six or seven and later maybe ten or twelve. Somewhere down the road the only time the song stops is when he passes out. The progression of the disease is so subtle and usually takes place over such an extended period of time, that even the alcoholic himself failed to notice the point at which he lost control and alcohol took over his life. Are you or have you or someone close evey been an alcoholic. :(Bondy  |
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Post by bondygodfatherleek on Jul 20, 2009 21:07:23 GMT
why is he not deserving of one ? because he was an alcoholic ? ... I guess it all depends on how you feel about alcoholism, imo it's a disease . Serps, this must be the 3rd time I've agreed with you. Well nearly, Alcoholism is an illness not a disease.  |
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Post by Roy Cropper on Jul 20, 2009 21:55:51 GMT
For me, this is the what i would call Wank Britain, not a few immigrants entering the country.
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Post by salopstick on Jul 20, 2009 22:16:54 GMT
if you were god who would give it to an alchoholic or some normal guy who's liver had failed naturally can anyone answer that |
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Post by bondygodfatherleek on Jul 20, 2009 22:18:34 GMT
For me, this is the what i would call Wank Britain, not a few immigrants entering the country. She looks quite nice to me   8-)Bondy  |
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Post by prong on Jul 21, 2009 0:10:31 GMT
This might sound slightly insensitive, but I've read down this thread and now I'm gaggin for a pint. |
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Post by Malex on Jul 21, 2009 0:56:08 GMT
Thankfully I don't know any, or have any, alcoholics in my family. Maybe if I did then I would see things in a different stance but basically....
I smoke. I don't see it as a disease and I know the risks of what I'm doing to my body. I'm not expecting the state to give me a fresh set of lungs when mine are well and truely fucked as I'd have done it to myself.
As has been said people are responsible for their own actions at the end of the day.
Sorry if there are some people here with alcoholics in their family or are alcoholics themselves if this seems like a naive point of view.
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Post by Meggsy on Jul 21, 2009 3:33:40 GMT
Bondy no I am not an alcoholic and no one in my family that I know of is an alcoholic but having researched the matter I believe it to be a disease that pyschologically can not be overcome in some people.
You may say yourself that it is an illness, one which you can cure- I am aware that you yourself were a former alcoholic and yes well done mate you overcame that but some peoples minds are that diseased by the brain that they can not overcome theire addiction.
Me and you will have different views on alcoholism I am sure however I have said what I think and every point needs different views.
I onna sticking up for the lad who the post is on about but I am stating facts that are scientifically and pshycologically recognised in the world of medicine- the side which my opinion belongs to
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Post by lordeffinghamhunt on Jul 21, 2009 7:09:30 GMT
Just like drug addicts I could not give a toss about this youth.
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Post by thepremierbanksy on Jul 21, 2009 7:17:59 GMT
if you were god who would give it to an alchoholic or some normal guy who's liver had failed naturally can anyone answer that I can't say what Godliness would do my decision making, but if I were a doctor I'd give it to the normal guy simply on the basis that there's a pretty big risk that the alcoholic is going to abuse his new liver with drink upon relapsing. |
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Post by neoisd1 on Jul 21, 2009 12:26:48 GMT
I had an uncle who died of the same condition at the age of 29. Inherited a large sum of money and began to slowly piss it up the wall. He would get up, walk to the shop to buy a liter of vodka, drink it all on the way home, get in and fall asleep. This would be repeated 5 or 6 times a day.
We all tried to help him but to no affect. He went into rehab and came out not only with his drink problem but had also picked up a drug habbit whilst inside.
His money eventually ran out and so he decided to go on the sick, and the wonderful government decided he was "disabled" and should be on at least £200 per week (no joke). The more he drank, the more money he got. Eventually his liver failed and he was bleeding internally and that was that.
I believe that no alcoholic should be offered transplants as they are solely responsible for fucking up the liver they had. I know this may seem harsh but I have put up with this first hand, my uncle had ample opportunity and help to quit and he didn't. No doubt this lad is the same, they always think, "just one more", it's a selfish attitude. Alcohol is no more addictive than nicotine and people give up the cigarettes all the time.
Giver organs to those who need them through no fault of their own.
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Post by onebollockbarry on Jul 21, 2009 14:01:00 GMT
A liver transplant isn't all about whether he is deserving or not, the biggest thing to think about is would he have gone out and abused his replacement? A non alcoholic is far less likely to do so than an alcoholic so it is seen as waste.
There is only so many and they need to be given to those who are willing to care for it and use it to start a new life. Not an excuse to carry on in the same vein.
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Post by BrianLeicsStokie on Jul 21, 2009 14:02:33 GMT
R.I.P chap, so bloody young too.
Anyone know how much, or what he was drinking?!?!?
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8-)Bondy 
