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Post by OldStokie on Mar 15, 2009 13:02:30 GMT
I reckon I know what he's doing and he worked it out after maybe half a dozen games. I reckon once we got through the first few home games, it was obvious that with the narrow pitch, we could match almost anyone and he is gambling big style on our home form keeping us up and that anything we get away from home is a bonus. So, he knows we have 19 home games and need aprox 40 points for survival and has worked out a combination of results to reach that target. I'm sure he would have liked to have pinched a few more points away from home to make things easier, but at the end of the day, he knows it will be our home form that will keep us up. That's why he's always bigging up the support at home. He knows, providing the crowd don't turn against him, the 12th man syndrome will pull us through. And I think he's right. I've never liked the bloke because he's a cunning and devious sod. As he's proved throughout his time here, he'll sacrifice anything to get his way, and if that means in this instance, those who go to away matches are pissed off big style - so be it. They'll have to pick up the crumbs of his general gameplan cake. So, let's see if he'll succeed. 19 games at home. Win 10, draw 4 and lose 5. That's 34 points. Away, draw 6 and the job is done. Win one of those 6 and we've got 42 points. He's gambling, but given his brilliant idea of making the pitch smaller so we can stifle the other teams' obviously better talent, it's not a bad bet. He's playing the odds and I reckon Paddy Power have been outwitted by him. They didn't account for the fact that they were dealing with such a devious and unpredictable bastard.  Goooaaarrrnnn Tone - you t**t!  OS. |
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Post by dozintheseventees on Mar 15, 2009 13:09:21 GMT
Ingenious!!
But I think we all knew that was the plan at home. The smaller pitch to stop 'more talented' teams from using width to get in behind us and channeling everything through the middle. It was a good move for us but I'm sure he would have liked more points away from home.
It won't have escaped his attention that the smaller pitch helps with Rory's throws too.
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Post by mermaidsal on Mar 15, 2009 13:10:50 GMT
Well, he's taking it right to the wire and I still think GD may stuff us, although I hope to God it doesn't. Controversially I think he's been desperately unlucky in the past few away games. The tactic of trying to draw the enemy fire in the first half then try and swarm all over them from 45/60 minutes could easily have produced a couple of wins that should have seen us near mid-table. Tone couldn't legislate for Ric v Wet Sham or Soro yesterday for example, but the fact that we're vulnerable to a single mistake or weak spot every time reveals the truth, that despite some great signings we're still right on the margin of being good enough to be in the Prem. Having said that though, I honestly think we'll make it, skin of the teeth and all... Welcome back OS, how was the holiday?  |
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Post by GRUMPY 1 on Mar 15, 2009 13:20:46 GMT
Havent a clue what goes on in his head, but he needs to make the players realise that matches last for 90 minutes not 35 or 40. It's so frustrating when we see how well they can play when they try. It seems to me that our lads maybe get stage fright when they come out of the tunnel at away grounds?  |
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Post by OldStokie on Mar 15, 2009 13:37:13 GMT
I've been back over two weeks, Sal. The holiday was fine thanks. Be off again soon. Yes, I agree that we could have been a bit luckier away from home when you look back at the games we've lost in the last few minutes but we've had a spot of luck at home too. I reckon Pulis will have brought those things into his equation - swings and roundabouts. I reckon his masterstroke was making the pitch smaller. The perfect example of that was the way we pummelled Arse into abject surrender when they have a group of players who are far superior to ours in talent. The one problem we might have [and we will know in the next few home games] is that the less-skilled teams may also find it easier to cope on a small pitch because it will then come down to a battle of the fittest and those wanting it the most and not the most talented. That's where Pulis plays his ace card - US! Our support has been tremendous this season and I've no doubt we account for many of the points we've taken at home. Take Man City for example. On the pitch, our ten men battled like terriers, but we made the ground so hostile that it frightened the Man City players out of their rhythym. Arse too. I can go back to the days when Bill Shankly turned Anfield into a place teams were afraid to go. It's happening here at The Brit. It does affect away players negatively as it does our own team positively. A couple of instances: Ronaldo was reduced to an ordinary player until he decided to use his brain to get one of our players sent off. Rooney was so frustrated he had a go at big Abde. Other players can cope with it as Tevez showed. It's all psychological: bring them down to our level and let's see if they've got the bottle to cope. Van Persie couldn't. Like you, Sal, I think we can do it. I have one reservation - Pulis may go into his shell and play negatively at home if we lose a game against one of our relegation rivals. If he does, we will go down because we need to go out to win our home games and not go out not to lose. OS. |
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Post by OldStokie on Mar 15, 2009 13:59:11 GMT
I take it because of a lack of a smiley that the 'Ingenious!!' was bit of sarcasm, dozintheseventees? I posted the thread because of the constant negative threads from fans after every away defeat. I don't think those who spent their hard earned dosh and their time supporting the team away from home would describe it as 'ingenious'. I think they'll be utterly pissed off if they think as I do, that their entertainment has been sacrificed for the 'greater good' of Pulis's negativity. Despite the fact that I think his gameplan will work, I detest his away tactics. He's selling out the fans who support the club away before they even go. I suppose they can always console themselves with the fact that even a dummy has worked out that a narrow pitch would be our saviour though.
OS.
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Post by jbstokie on Mar 15, 2009 14:05:32 GMT
When we were at 2-1 he bought on a third striker, if higgy's header/shoulder went in you'd all be in a different tune.
If he started Ethers it'd give off the wrong impression, same reason he didn't start Delap or Fuller after their suspensions. Also if he'd have started Fuller he'd know he's undroppable and start playing lazily. I think he's just trying to keep him on his toes.
And as for the narrow pitch. That makes fuck all difference, if teams were good enough it wouldn't matter how narrow the pitch was. Looks like not everyone gets wiser with age OS
JB
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Post by TheWiseMaster on Mar 15, 2009 14:08:58 GMT
OS AS you know - me and TP share a telepathic understanding So I will explain the thoughts of TP Obviously he has sent the team out to keep it tight with a view to pushing on etc.... If we listened in to the team talks you would hear him imploring the players to stay positive and not camp on the edge of the box However, what TP hasn't worked out is that if you drop attacking players and replace them with defensive players then that message seeps through to the team as a need to be defensive. Put on the attacking players as he does when we are two down and the attacking bulb lights up in the heads of all the players Yesterday the error in formation was compounded by two players (Mama and Delap) being well below full fitness - and we paid the price I will have to work on a bit of telepathy to see if I can get the message across to him before the winnable Baggies game!  |
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Post by dozintheseventees on Mar 15, 2009 14:15:19 GMT
Old Stokie:
Sorry mate, no sarcasm intended. I was trying to make a 'funny' about our manager's clever thinking. Don't know how to do the smileys and I'm not very keen on sarcasm.
Bit straight laced me OS. I agreed with you post!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2009 15:38:13 GMT
Whatever is going in in Pulis's head surely he must realise that hes; got to change his approach to team selection
at home HE MUST PICK HIS BEST ATTACKING ELEVEN FROM THE START - simple
Away - HE HAS TO BE MORE AGGRESSIVE FROM THE OFF
from the above principles team selection becomes much simpler
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Post by ChesterStokie on Mar 15, 2009 15:45:23 GMT
OS, you give the man far too much credit. There is no way he could have worked out that after 6 games we could realistically get anywhere near 34 points at home. A team capable of picking up that may points at home should be going for a place in Europe, not measuring success as survival. Why would anyone think we were good enough for 34 home points but bad enough for only 6 away points? And if he thought we could survive in this division with a total of 6 away points he's barking mad. The sad fact of the matter is that when it comes to away matches the man hasn't got a clue. We were YET AGAIN playing hoofball yesterday in the first half and gifting possession back to Everton, and YET AGAIN we only started to play proper passing football when we were 2 nil down. For this to happen again after the Villa lesson is criminal and I have frankly given up on the man.  |
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Post by dozintheseventees on Mar 15, 2009 15:51:58 GMT
Chester Stokie:
We played 'Hoofball' because half of our team can't pass the ball to their own men or retain possession for more than a few seconds.
It's a quality issue not a tactics issue.
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Mar 15, 2009 15:54:39 GMT
Since you mentioned Anfield OS..Did you know that the 'Home' teams dressing room is only half the size of the 'Away' team and that the doorframes are all under 6 feet in the home dressing-rooms, which makes most home players have to duck their heads to walk through..making them feel much taller...and conversely, the away team dressing room doorframes are 6 feet 6...making the away team feel smaller? Even before a ball is kicked at Anfield..Liverpool have the psychological edge...and I believe Mr Shankly was responsible for that... If TP's cunning pitch narrowing plan succeeds it is surely something to celebrate...although I would question how much it really advantages us....Does Pericard become a better goalscorer than Anelka with a narrower pitch...Were Lampard and Modric fooled by the reduction? |
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Post by ruts66 on Mar 15, 2009 16:02:20 GMT
Pulis is simply incapable of learning. When you've got nothing to lose against better opposition you should always start with your best 11. It's no good saving your impact players only to rescue you once you're 2-0 down.
We're all hanging on to the notion of a win at WBA or Hull but I can't honestly see either because we have never properly rehearsed how to win an away game.
As the pressure builds I can see some home defeats too.
The guy utterly bemuses me and I've come to the conclusion that he lacks basic intelligence.
We've got matchwinners and if he could just recognise this we'd be half a dozen points to the good by now.
What a travesty if, as I suspect, we come up just short...
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Post by dozintheseventees on Mar 15, 2009 16:07:11 GMT
ruts 66: ' He lacks basic intelligence'
Was going to respond but TBH now, I cant be fuckin arsed.
Dick!
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Post by ruts66 on Mar 15, 2009 16:14:22 GMT
"Was going to respond but TBH now, I cant be fuckin arsed"
;D
doz, you are to public debate what Pulis is to tactical instinct - thanks for popping in...
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Post by trebor63 on Mar 15, 2009 16:21:24 GMT
. And I think he's right. I've never liked the bloke because he's a cunning and devious sod. As he's proved throughout his time here, he'll sacrifice anything to get his way, and if that means in this instance, those who go to away matches are pissed off big style - so be it. They'll have to pick up the crumbs of his general gameplan cake. So, let's see if he'll succeed. 19 games at home. Win 10, draw 4 and lose 5. That's 34 points. Away, draw 6 and the job is done. Win one of those 6 and we've got 42 points. He's gambling, but given his brilliant idea of making the pitch smaller so we can stifle the other teams' obviously better talent, it's not a bad bet. He's playing the odds and I reckon Paddy Power have been outwitted by him. They didn't account for the fact that they were dealing with such a devious and unpredictable bastard. Goooaaarrrnnn Tone - you t**t! OS. Hardly devious as he said several times at the start of the season that we narrowed the pitch to help stifle the opposition! I've never liked the bloke because he's a cunning and devious sod Is that because you were spouting your daily drivvle about how Pulis would never get us promoted and he made you look like a bit of a plonker? As he's proved throughout his time here, he'll sacrifice anything to get his way Yeh how dare the devious and vile man do stuff like save us from relegation and get us promoted by doing things his way when OldStokies fat little Dutch friend was doing such a good job  he'll sacrifice anything to get his way, and if that means in this instance, those who go to away matches are pissed off big style - so be it. They'll have to pick up the crumbs of his general gameplan cake. Well its a cake lots of people want a piece of! We have recently put in some cracking performances against some of the best club teams in the world. I know you thought it was great fun watching us lose half our home games in the second tier (only three or four years ago!) but frankly I'd rather watch Arsenal, Villa, Man City etc etc being put to the sword. Eveton and Villa away were much improved performances and the start of the second half at Everton was one of our best performances home or away |
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Post by dozintheseventees on Mar 15, 2009 16:27:15 GMT
ruts66:
If you look closely at this Forum you will see that I contribute to many topics of debate and I always try to be objective, sensible and respectful to those who have a different view.
I make an exception in your case because I can't be arsed with someone who says TP lacks basic intelligence and is incapable of learning.
If you want sensible debate then try posting a sensible subject for debate. Who the fuck are you to say he lacks intelligence??
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Post by ruts66 on Mar 15, 2009 16:29:28 GMT
"and the start of the second half at Everton was one of our best performances..."
Yes, perhaps someone closer to the club than me could remind the genius in charge that the first 45mins do actually count toward the final score... ;D
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Post by dozintheseventees on Mar 15, 2009 16:36:27 GMT
ruts: You can disagree with him all you like, you can criticise his tactics and team selection and you have every right to voice your opinion. I fully support you in that and I would not have been so 'curt' with you had you simply done that.
What you did was make a silly remark about a man you don't even know and, to be fair, it doesn't fall into the realms of 'fair comment'.
You are bound to get this kind of reaction if you indulge in over-the-top comments that many will take exception to.
I apologise for my 'Dick' comment but it made me angry
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Post by trebor63 on Mar 15, 2009 16:37:10 GMT
"and the start of the second half at Everton was one of our best performances..." Yes, perhaps someone closer to the club than me could remind the genius in charge that the first 45mins do actually count toward the final score... ;D Yeh I have to bow down to your incredible wit and knowledge! How we didn't dominate Everton (a team that has never played outside the top league) for the entire ninety minutes is very poor. To not beat a team like that in their own backyard is a very poor reflection on TP and Stoke. To only dominate and dictate play for half an hour and have them on the ropes for about twenty minutes was very poor. When I think back about three years to those glorius days at places like Nuneaton where we were every bit as good (in patches) as them it makes me wonder where it all went wrong |
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Post by ruts66 on Mar 15, 2009 16:37:16 GMT
ruts66: If you look closely at this Forum you will see that I contribute to many topics of debate and I always try to be objective, sensible and respectful to those who have a different view. I make an exception in your case because I can't be arsed with someone who says TP lacks basic intelligence and is incapable of learning. If you want sensible debate then try posting a sensible subject for debate. Who the fuck are you to say he lacks intelligence?? doz, calm down matey, are you on the clod? The evidence suggests that Pulis is incapable of learning because he stubbornly keeps on doing the same thing with the same net result. Please enlighten me with your version of events away from home but only if you can find it within yourself to stoop so low... |
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sting
Youth Player
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Post by sting on Mar 15, 2009 16:41:16 GMT
Chester Stokie, totally agree with you. I've given up trying to rationalise the away strategy. Every single person I spoke to yesterday except one thinks TP is plain wrong. I do not agree with the view that we lack quality either. For 20 minutes yesterday we were the better side and I think TP is selling the players short in not letting them play more freely. What have we got to lose?
A couple of other points. SU4 JB - I think Rory started after his suspension (Bolton). I was surprised Matty didn't yesterday.
I think we will stay up but one thing is for sure. It will not be as difficult getting an away ticket next season if things don't change. Once the novelty of the Premier league has worn off then people may expect a bit more than we are getting now.
Finally, am I the only who thinks that Coates' comments regarding the away form were inappropriate? It may be a fact that we could survive without an away win but should he be publically endorsing this? I note that TP doesn't now share this view according to his post match comments.
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Post by dozintheseventees on Mar 15, 2009 16:46:01 GMT
ruts66: I can't
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Post by bassmaster on Mar 15, 2009 18:06:32 GMT
Pulis is dodgy, nearly as dodgy as Old Stokie.
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Post by march4 on Mar 15, 2009 18:18:28 GMT
I have been working away from home this week and Friday night in the bar found myself talking football to a group of Glaswegians who supported Rangers. I was amazed by the high regard they had for TP. They thought him the best English manager in the game and a future England manager. I did correct them about his Welshness, but still they persisted.
They predicted a defeat for Rangers in the cup final against Celtic and said they would soon be after a new manager. They could think of no one better than TP.
They described the job he is doing at Stoke as a 'miracle' and couldn't understand why bigger clubs weren't after him. I did explain some of his weaknesses, but they felt that these could be viewed as strengths and anyway they didn't matter so long as the club made progress on and off the pitch.
Now the alcohol was flowing, but these were sensible people with a passion to see their club doing well. I know I am considered to be more for TP than against him, but I was rather taken aback by their thoughts.
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Post by trebor63 on Mar 15, 2009 18:29:30 GMT
Sometimes I think outsiders can view things far more clearly than those closer to whats going on.
Many Crewe fans were slagging Gradi off when Crewe were involved in a relegation fight to stay in the Championship, Charlton fans wanted Curbishley out cos they kept finishing halfway up the Prem (and they felt they were far better than that!!!!!!) Vale fans were having pops atRudgie in his last year or two!
TP will already go down in history as one of our best ever managers and he could go on to challenge Waddo as our greatest ever, in time.
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Post by surreystokie on Mar 15, 2009 20:11:35 GMT
seventees, you can't use smiley things!?! Even I can. When you press reply, they appear at the top of the screen and you just click. There, so try it now. |
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Post by henry on Mar 15, 2009 20:21:11 GMT
ruts66: If you look closely at this Forum you will see that I contribute to many topics of debate and I always try to be objective, sensible and respectful to those who have a different view. I make an exception in your case because I can't be arsed with someone who says TP lacks basic intelligence and is incapable of learning. If you want sensible debate then try posting a sensible subject for debate. Who the fuck are you to say he lacks intelligence?? doz, calm down matey, are you on the clod? The evidence suggests that Pulis is incapable of learning because he stubbornly keeps on doing the same thing with the same net result. Please enlighten me with your version of events away from home but only if you can find it within yourself to stoop so low... |
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Post by sutekh on Mar 15, 2009 20:40:29 GMT
Chester Stokie: We played 'Hoofball' because half of our team can't pass the ball to their own men or retain possession for more than a few seconds. It's a quality issue not a tactics issue. Just out of interest,who bought the players,who coaches them and who decides the gameplan? |
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