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Post by chessyorkshirexile on Jan 18, 2009 20:54:24 GMT
There is no people everyone crying about yesterday's result because we lost and predictably so.
We need to be honest about yesterday's result. On another day Chelsea and Lampard particularly would have been 3-0 up by half time. The reality is, Soreson saved our skin time and time again as we hung on with our usual 10 man behind the ball away routine.
Even when against the run of play Delap scored a great goal, we failed to press home our advantage and chose yet again to sit back and hang on. This 'alamo' routine does not work and is agonising for us fans.
And when we do get the ball, we can't hold on to it for more than two minutes because we have no one to pass it to upfield. All of our players are in their own half and falling over each other. Inevitably the ball pin-balls around the place and is picked up by an quick striker. Even Sorenson, amazing those he was yesterday, chooses to boot the ball upfield rather than pass it to a defender.
Why can't we pass and hold onto the ball when we have it? Part of the problem is our inadequate full-backs. Higgy is a good stopper, but just boots the ball up-field every time he has it. Griffin is far to slow and crap for the premier league and Wilko just needs time with a good right back to learn from.
No wonder Pulis misses his mama. He relies on the guy to hold the ball up when it is booted out of defence. Without his tenacity, the ball just keeps coming back and coming back and coming back until the inevitable goal happens and we say were were unlucky.
The agonising thing is that it needn't be like this. Why in heaven did TP not play Kitson alongside Beattie yesterday? Why did he bring him on as a bloody winger when he did? Why don't stoke just push up and retain possession? We have the players.
TP needs to go for it away from home or we will not win a single away game this season. With the addition of a pacy right back, Lawrence and Diao back to some sort of form, I think we might just survive. But TP needs to change his tactics, trust his players and grow some balls away from home.
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Post by SneydGreenStokie on Jan 18, 2009 21:00:05 GMT
There is no people everyone crying about yesterday's result because we lost and predictably so. We need to be honest about yesterday's result. On another day Chelsea and Lampard particularly would have been 3-0 up by half time. The reality is, Soreson saved our skin time and time again as we hung on with our usual 10 man behind the ball away routine. Even when against the run of play Delap scored a great goal, we failed to press home our advantage and chose yet again to sit back and hang on. This 'alamo' routine does not work and is agonising for us fans. And when we do get the ball, we can't hold on to it for more than two minutes because we have no one to pass it to upfield. All of our players are in their own half and falling over each other. Inevitably the ball pin-balls around the place and is picked up by an quick striker. Even Sorenson, amazing those he was yesterday, chooses to boot the ball upfield rather than pass it to a defender. Why can't we pass and hold onto the ball when we have it? Part of the problem is our inadequate full-backs. Higgy is a good stopper, but just boots the ball up-field every time he has it. Griffin is far to slow and crap for the premier league and Wilko just needs time with a good right back to learn from. No wonder Pulis misses his mama. He relies on the guy to hold the ball up when it is booted out of defence. Without his tenacity, the ball just keeps coming back and coming back and coming back until the inevitable goal happens and we say were were unlucky. The agonising thing is that it needn't be like this. Why in heaven did TP not play Kitson alongside Beattie yesterday? Why did he bring him on as a bloody winger when he did? Why don't stoke just push up and retain possession? We have the players. TP needs to go for it away from home or we will not win a single away game this season. With the addition of a pacy right back, Lawrence and Diao back to some sort of form, I think we might just survive. But TP needs to change his tactics, trust his players and grow some balls away from home. Yeah, cos our defending against the euro champ league runners up and 3rd in the prem was awful wasnt it. Yet another doom and gloom mongerer on the wind up. Do yourself a favour and go and bore someone else. Maybe your dog will listen to you. Or maybe he would just prefer to sniff his own arse and lick his bollocks. SGS
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2009 21:02:19 GMT
SGS well said mate some people on here have not got a fookin clue.
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Post by crimesy on Jan 18, 2009 21:02:41 GMT
i half agree with you, the problem with getting over the loss was that there was nothing to blame it on, just sheer class from last years runners-up.. the rest is codswallop though.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2009 21:06:15 GMT
i said it on another thread yesterday but i'll say it again (yawn!) since when is a good idea to push up and go all out against one of the best european sides there is? remember we are Stoke City not Inter, AC, Real etc. If we pushed up trying to retain the ball then our midfield would have been torn apart when we lost it and we'd have gone down 5 or 6 nil and if you think about it goal difference may well be a very important factor come the end of the season. Bloody hell, if we lose to Man U 5-0 we're shit but if we try to be realistic and clamp them down,hustle them, don't let them play and try to nick one (which we achieved) then we're not ambitious enough. TP can't bloody win! Yes we're in the Prem but we're not quite top 4 standard yet, a bit of realism may be required here.
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Post by baystokie on Jan 18, 2009 21:10:55 GMT
chessy - ignore the rantings of those who can only respond with gutter language. Why they can't just disagree or make a contradictory remark is beyond me - and obviously beyond them also
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Post by chessyorkshirexile on Jan 18, 2009 21:25:37 GMT
There are some people on this board who just don't like hearing the truth and would rather resort to silly childish insults about snifing their dogs arses than put an alternative view forward.
Sorreson showed his class, but was it my imagination, or did he pull off save after save to keep Chelsea out?
I don't accept all of this euro champ runners up bollocks. Chelsea were nervous and there for the taking yesterday. We have beaten Arsenal and Villa already and they have world class players. When we play away however, we piss our pants before we take to the field thanks to TP's natural risk aversion. What is their to lose going away to Chelsea and having a go?
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Post by BraveSirRobin on Jan 18, 2009 21:29:44 GMT
'Sorreson showed his class, but was it my imagination, or did he pull off save after save to keep Chelsea out?'
Correct me if Im wrong......Isnt that what keepers are for?
To play and defend against a team of Chelseas stature and take a lead up until the 87th minute and still lose is in my mind,pretty unlucky.
And that my exiled friend is the truth(even if you dont like it)
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Post by mosscat on Jan 18, 2009 21:30:56 GMT
i fell asleep reading that drivel. scaring the shit out of chelsea will do for me. made the overpaid fat twat lampard earn his dosh.
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Post by jbstokie on Jan 18, 2009 21:34:44 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2009 21:39:00 GMT
What is their to lose going away to Chelsea and having a go? Four or five goals?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2009 21:39:01 GMT
mosscat your right drivel it is and how anybody that attended the game yesterday can come on here and criticise is beyond me.I was absolutely gutted but also VERY VERY PROUD and i will repeat chess you have not got a clue.
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Post by SneydGreenStokie on Jan 18, 2009 21:44:48 GMT
There are some people on this board who just don't like hearing the truth and would rather resort to silly childish insults about snifing their dogs arses than put an alternative view forward. Sorreson showed his class, but was it my imagination, or did he pull off save after save to keep Chelsea out? I don't accept all of this euro champ runners up bollocks. Chelsea were nervous and there for the taking yesterday. We have beaten Arsenal and Villa already and they have world class players. When we play away however, we piss our pants before we take to the field thanks to TP's natural risk aversion. What is their to lose going away to Chelsea and having a go? The alternative view was my opinion that our standard of defending was outstanding against a world class team. You deserve no respect for your lack of respect for our team. I use the term 'ours' for you loosely because no proper stoke fan would share your ridiculous negative opinion. SGS
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Post by chessyorkshirexile on Jan 18, 2009 21:47:26 GMT
Muttley and mosscat, why don't you go and start a thread about how VERY VERY PROUD you are and leave this one to people who want to have a view about the way in which we play the game. Yesterday, Chelsea had 37 shots on goal as we clung grimly on. To all of us who have supported stoke thro thick and thin over the years (and I am one) we knew what was coming.
I am a stoke supporter, but unlike your blind faith in TP's rearguard antics, I want us to have the best chance of success and we won't do that playing 10 men behind the ball away from home - we played the same way against wigan by the way, so don't give me all the world class stuff all over again.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2009 21:51:10 GMT
Suggest you go and talk to yourself then because you wont get many takers with your views after yesterday imho.
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Post by SneydGreenStokie on Jan 18, 2009 21:52:38 GMT
Muttley and mosscat, why don't you go and start a thread about how VERY VERY PROUD you are and leave this one to people who want to have a view about the way in which we play the game. Yesterday, Chelsea had 37 shots on goal as we clung grimly on. To all of us who have supported stoke thro thick and thin over the years (and I am one) we knew what was coming. I am a stoke supporter, but unlike your blind faith in TP's rearguard antics, I want us to have the best chance of success and we won't do that playing 10 men behind the ball away from home - we played the same way against wigan by the way, so don't give me all the world class stuff all over again. And finally, it is clear that you really dont have a clue. Doesnt matter how long you have supported the club. SGS
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Post by chebseystokie99 on Jan 18, 2009 21:53:10 GMT
So to sum this up your unhappy at the way we played against the champions league runners up !! some people need to realise our opposition sometimes Im sure you'll be praising our defending when we get an away win see you then ... ;D
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Post by chessyorkshirexile on Jan 18, 2009 21:57:16 GMT
No Chebsey I'm unhappy with the way we play away full-stop. We won't stay up unless we win away and we won't win away unless we play to win rather than trying not to lose. It's as simple as that. We also played an embarrassingly defensive game against Wigan who are by no means champions league runners up.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2009 22:02:26 GMT
No Chebsey I'm unhappy with the way we play away full-stop. We won't stay up unless we win away and we won't win away unless we play to win rather than trying not to lose. It's as simple as that. We also played an embarrassingly defensive game against Wigan who are by no means champions league runners up. Fulham haven't won away. They're doing ok. Sunderland didn't win away last season til what, the end of March? Obviously I'm not saying we shouldn't try, but let's not start shrieking hysterically about it. Home form is important. Regarding your original point, I agree to an extent. It's hard to have many complaints about the result given they peppered us with shots all game. If, say, Blackpool came to the Brit and did what we did yesterday and took all three points, there would be all manner of folk on here crying about how we deserved to win and how life is unfair. Nevertheless, we took our chance, and until the 88th minute, they hadn't, so had we won, we would have deserved it. To come within two minutes of beating the second best team in Europe only to fall at the very end, in that respect, IS desperately unlucky.
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Post by luke45 on Jan 18, 2009 22:04:29 GMT
There are some people on this board who just don't like hearing the truth It is not the truth, its your opinion, and thats all it'll remain, so if people don''t agree with it, it doesn't mean they don't know the truth at all. As much as i agree with some of your comments, for a method you slate, for a side that can't keep the ball for more than a matter of seconds, and for a side with no variety, i ask my self why we went to chelsea and for 88 minutes, through that approach nearly beat a side that were in the champions league final last season. A quote from you here, ' TP needs to change his tactics, trust his players and grow some balls away from home. ' Surely if we sit back with ten men behind the ball, soak up pressure and lack variety as you say, he must trust his players to be able too defend for the length of the match ? you also said, ' we failed to press home our advantage and chose yet again to sit back and hang on.' I don't think we chose to sit back i think the pressure Chelsea were putting on us, forced us into trying to weather the storm, throughout the whole game, or at any game of this magnitude all we can do is limit their chances, their posession, and try and put their key players out of the game, and take any little chances we get. If we had have pressed home our advantage we could have lost the game by more, we can't go to Stamford Bridge, Emirates, Old Trafford etc...and take the game too them.
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Post by SneydGreenStokie on Jan 18, 2009 22:05:48 GMT
No Chebsey I'm unhappy with the way we play away full-stop. We won't stay up unless we win away and we won't win away unless we play to win rather than trying not to lose. It's as simple as that. We also played an embarrassingly defensive game against Wigan who are by no means champions league runners up. So your taling about wigan as a comparison. Can you remember we tried to go to Man City and attack them. What happened there Einstein. Pulis got it spot on yesterday and we came so very close to pulling it off. If you cant see that, then you are obviously thick as shit. SGS
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Post by boothenboy75 on Jan 18, 2009 22:06:29 GMT
Agree that going to Chelsea and losing 2-1 is no disgrace, especially when leading with3 to go.
However the way we play away from home, we will be lucky to win this season (inc. Brazil!). Some on here seem to have a complex, that any disagreement on TP's tactics makes you some sort of moron.
Me, I'll be forever grateful for what TP has done for us, and still back him 100%. However, some of his decision making is quite frankly baffling:
1. Starting with Cressy ahead of Kits;
2. Having started with Cressy and us holding on with 4 minutes to go, Etherington needs to come off. Why didn't he put Cressy on the left wing and bring Sonko on to bolster the defence? Seems amazing to criticise TP for being to adventurous.
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Post by Pugsley on Jan 18, 2009 22:08:06 GMT
SGS well said mate some people on here have not got a fookin clue. Too right mate, have you looked in the mirror? If you can't keep the ball you invite pressure, your defence tires and eventually top sides will score. Stoke needed to hang on for a win yesterday, once the equalizer went in the winner from Chelsea was inevitable.
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Post by chessyorkshirexile on Jan 18, 2009 22:08:34 GMT
Thanks Rob, nice to get a decent response and a well balanced view rather than cheer-leaders from the Pulis Appreciation Society. I hope you are right and we can continue to turn those draws back into wins at home. Etherington is a great signing and when Lawrence is fully fit and Fuller back we will create problems.
I was as gutted as anyone on here to lose the way we did against Chelsea and to that extent I guess we were unlucky having come so far. My point is I think we invite trouble with the way we play. When we have the ball, it doesn't matter who we are playing against if we can hold on to it.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2009 22:11:03 GMT
Thanks Rob, nice to get a decent response and a well balanced view rather than cheer-leaders from the Pulis Appreciation Society. I hope you are right and we can continue to turn those draws back into wins at home. Etherington is a great signing and when Lawrence is fully fit and Fuller back we will create problems. I was as gutted as anyone on here to lose the way we did against Chelsea and to that extent I guess we were unlucky having come so far. My point is I think we invite trouble with the way we play. When we have the ball, it doesn't matter who we are playing against if we can hold on to it. I agree mate. Failure to hold onto the ball is a massive problem for us and if anything gets us relegated it will be that.
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Post by rfstokie on Jan 18, 2009 22:11:12 GMT
Muttley and mosscat, why don't you go and start a thread about how VERY VERY PROUD you are and leave this one to people who want to have a view about the way in which we play the game. Yesterday, Chelsea had 37 shots on goal as we clung grimly on. To all of us who have supported stoke thro thick and thin over the years (and I am one) we knew what was coming. I am a stoke supporter, but unlike your blind faith in TP's rearguard antics, I want us to have the best chance of success and we won't do that playing 10 men behind the ball away from home - we played the same way against wigan by the way, so don't give me all the world class stuff all over again. Did you actually watch the game? I would say 30 out of 37 shots were extremely poor and out of desperation. And what do you really expect. How do you really expect us to play against one of the best teams in the world. The fact is Chelsea and Phil Scolari were lucky to win through a performance that showed they lacked attacking creativity against a side they should really be thrashing in all fairness.
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Post by andy9196 on Jan 18, 2009 22:11:25 GMT
Totally agree SGS, some people think we are world beaters... get real lads !!!
Get behind the team
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Post by davejohnno1 on Jan 18, 2009 22:12:54 GMT
The truth is we were very very unlucky.
2 early substitutions meant that we couldn't alter the tempo or shape of our team 2nd half when certain players were clearly absolutely shattered. Coupled with that, the referee gave us absolutely nothing, and a scandalously awarded free kick (conveninetly missed by almost everyone) led to their winning goal which was in no small part due to a very lucky deflection.
Despite the odds being severely against us, we defended superbly, restricted Chelsea primarily to long shots and did carry more of a threat going forward than we have done in previous away fixtures.
We could have scored twice in the opening minutes, Beattie landed one on the roof of the net and fired one wide, a 20+ pass move just failed to see Beattie plant a free header into an empty net and we scored a gorgeous goal. After conceding the equaliser, some lovely interplay saw us be a nats cock away from creating a 2nd goal for Beattie as the ball was just nicked off his head.
I would say that we were very unlucky in the scheme of things.
They could have scored plenty as well, and Sorenson made 3 great saves in a hectic 5 minute spell just before half time, but apart from that and Ballack's free header miss, I thought we were pretty comfortable for the most part. I didn't see their two goals coming and it is that which makes it hurt even more.
I think you would struggle to find one supporter who actually attended yesterday's game who agrees with your original post.
I was/am proud of our efforts and am still gutted because we were so very, very unlucky on the day!
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Post by SneydGreenStokie on Jan 18, 2009 22:15:22 GMT
Thanks Rob, nice to get a decent response and a well balanced view rather than cheer-leaders from the Pulis Appreciation Society. I hope you are right and we can continue to turn those draws back into wins at home. Etherington is a great signing and when Lawrence is fully fit and Fuller back we will create problems. I was as gutted as anyone on here to lose the way we did against Chelsea and to that extent I guess we were unlucky having come so far. My point is I think we invite trouble with the way we play. When we have the ball, it doesn't matter who we are playing against if we can hold on to it. No cheer leaders here. Just reality added with some pride. Yiu wanna try it some time instead of moaning your bag of. I feel sorry for the people in your company. You must be hard work. SGS
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Post by Bick on Jan 18, 2009 22:20:26 GMT
For the majority of the game, our defending beat their attacking.
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