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Post by mickmillslovechild on Apr 13, 2024 11:44:18 GMT
Agree But last night's was even more absurd The WBA was worse because it's a matter of fact not opinion. Whether Gascoigne should have been sent off is a matter for judgement. Whether the handball was in the area or miles out is a point of fact. Both are decisions made based on the Laws of the game (facts) AND how the referee makes a judgment in those circumstances i.e for the WBA one, the ref has to decide if it's a handball (that's the"fact" as a law of the game) and then make a judgment (we don't have VAR remember) if it's in the area or not to give a pen. The ref got that wrong. Red cards are also "fact" in the laws of the game and it's listed what is or isn't a red card in those laws ("fact") and then they make a judgment whether it fits that to give the red. Red cards aren't just subjective decisions given by a ref depending on how he's feeling. They HAVE to be based on the "facts" of the Laws of the game surrounding what can or cant be a red card offence. Both are based on the "facts" of specific laws set down and both require judgements to be made by the ref (unlees you're in the Prem where those "judgments" are taken out of the refs hands as VAR is there). Indeed that's exactly why VAR was brought in I.e. to lessen mistakes made by the judgement part of any refs decision making; those judgments by the ref come into play and are used in every decision they make on the pitch....that's why VAR is there, to make sure the refs judgments are correct. |
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Post by Vermelho20312505 on Apr 14, 2024 7:39:16 GMT
The WBA was worse because it's a matter of fact not opinion. Whether Gascoigne should have been sent off is a matter for judgement. Whether the handball was in the area or miles out is a point of fact. Both are decisions made based on the Laws of the game (facts) AND how the referee makes a judgment in those circumstances i.e for the WBA one, the ref has to decide if it's a handball (that's the"fact" as a law of the game) and then make a judgment (we don't have VAR remember) if it's in the area or not to give a pen. The ref got that wrong. Red cards are also "fact" in the laws of the game and it's listed what is or isn't a red card in those laws ("fact") and then they make a judgment whether it fits that to give the red. Red cards aren't just subjective decisions given by a ref depending on how he's feeling. They HAVE to be based on the "facts" of the Laws of the game surrounding what can or cant be a red card offence. Both are based on the "facts" of specific laws set down and both require judgements to be made by the ref (unlees you're in the Prem where those "judgments" are taken out of the refs hands as VAR is there). Indeed that's exactly why VAR was brought in I.e. to lessen mistakes made by the judgement part of any refs decision making; those judgments by the ref come into play and are used in every decision they make on the pitch....that's why VAR is there, to make sure the refs judgments are correct. I don't agree that a judgement is a fact. As we'll all have different facts. Once the ref has decided its a handball (which I'm not debating). Where the handball occurred is clearly based on fact not judgement. |
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Post by mickmillslovechild on Apr 14, 2024 11:57:02 GMT
Both are decisions made based on the Laws of the game (facts) AND how the referee makes a judgment in those circumstances i.e for the WBA one, the ref has to decide if it's a handball (that's the"fact" as a law of the game) and then make a judgment (we don't have VAR remember) if it's in the area or not to give a pen. The ref got that wrong. Red cards are also "fact" in the laws of the game and it's listed what is or isn't a red card in those laws ("fact") and then they make a judgment whether it fits that to give the red. Red cards aren't just subjective decisions given by a ref depending on how he's feeling. They HAVE to be based on the "facts" of the Laws of the game surrounding what can or cant be a red card offence. Both are based on the "facts" of specific laws set down and both require judgements to be made by the ref (unlees you're in the Prem where those "judgments" are taken out of the refs hands as VAR is there). Indeed that's exactly why VAR was brought in I.e. to lessen mistakes made by the judgement part of any refs decision making; those judgments by the ref come into play and are used in every decision they make on the pitch....that's why VAR is there, to make sure the refs judgments are correct. I don't agree that a judgement is a fact. As we'll all have different facts. Once the ref has decided its a handball (which I'm not debating). Where the handball occurred is clearly based on fact not judgement. I never said anywhere that a judgment is a fact??? I said decisions are made using both. They are BASED around facts I.e. laws of the game but also judgments I.e. whether or not the ref thinks a law has been broken in the first place or not and where on the pitch it occurred. Theres no computer acitvated buzzer that goes off to tell the ref "thats a handball" or "that was in the box" apart from the goal line tech for awarding goals. The ref makes those judgments which is why decisions are (and always have been since refs were introduced) sometimes wrong That's precisely the reason that a pen was awarded in this case and the reason this thread even exists....the refs judgment in that instance was wrong. The only way to get it factually correct is with VAR. Without VAR it will always be based on the judgment of the ref or the linesman. |
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