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Post by cobhamstokey on Mar 12, 2024 9:20:05 GMT
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Post by phileetin on Mar 12, 2024 11:12:06 GMT
since covid lockdown and that 80% of pay for doing nothing for 2 years ,i've noticed lots of people have turned lazy.
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Post by cvillestokie on Mar 12, 2024 11:25:57 GMT
I’m not surprised by this: "To get inactivity down government needs to look at childcare, transport and address NHS waiting lists“. Childcare is ludicrously expensive for a start. For many, I can see why it’s not actually worth going into work. It’s also a barrier for population growth that sees developed countries lean on immigration to prop up the number of taxpayers.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Mar 12, 2024 11:48:21 GMT
I’m not surprised by this: "To get inactivity down government needs to look at childcare, transport and address NHS waiting lists“. Childcare is ludicrously expensive for a start. For many, I can see why it’s not actually worth going into work. It’s also a barrier for population growth that sees developed countries lean on immigration to prop up the number of taxpayers. Plus all the full time carers out there who fill a huge void. Headline figures are there to shock, you have to drill down and look at the detail. Still it's the usual convenient distraction when everything is going to shit to point the blame at those not in work for a variety of reasons.....
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Post by rickyfullerbeer on Mar 12, 2024 12:44:37 GMT
Hunt trying to encourage people to work longer hours to fill gaps. It will have the opposite effect.
People are sick of a poor work-life balance than often only pays for the essentials of living.
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Post by rickyfullerbeer on Mar 12, 2024 12:45:08 GMT
Also, skills shortages start with the school curriculum which needs a massive overhaul.
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Post by thisisouryear on Mar 12, 2024 13:00:04 GMT
Work doesn't pay, too many people live to work rather than work to live. People go work for little pay and for some a boss who's a twat only for it all and some to go straight out of their accounts paying off a fraction of their building debts.
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Post by Eggybread on Mar 12, 2024 13:06:44 GMT
According to Sunak unemployment is down to just 5 people at the moment.😎
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Post by redstriper on Mar 13, 2024 7:53:57 GMT
I’m not surprised by this: "To get inactivity down government needs to look at childcare, transport and address NHS waiting lists“. Childcare is ludicrously expensive for a start. For many, I can see why it’s not actually worth going into work. It’s also a barrier for population growth that sees developed countries lean on immigration to prop up the number of taxpayers. Plus all the full time carers out there who fill a huge void. Headline figures are there to shock, you have to drill down and look at the detail. Still it's the usual convenient distraction when everything is going to shit to point the blame at those not in work for a variety of reasons..... Do you think this isn't a problem then ? I think its reached a critical point, the financial gap between a career on benefits and average pay has been eroded so far that it appears a lot of people are just giving up, and using minor mental health issues as the excuse for doing so. Physical jobs can't be filled, services are going to shit as a consequence, manufacturing skills are missing, tax revenues cant sustain these numbers so taxes go up for those of us still working, narrowing the gap still further. Its a vicious spiral of decline.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Mar 13, 2024 8:48:27 GMT
Plus all the full time carers out there who fill a huge void. Headline figures are there to shock, you have to drill down and look at the detail. Still it's the usual convenient distraction when everything is going to shit to point the blame at those not in work for a variety of reasons..... Do you think this isn't a problem then ? I think its reached a critical point, the financial gap between a career on benefits and average pay has been eroded so far that it appears a lot of people are just giving up, and using minor mental health issues as the excuse for doing so. Physical jobs can't be filled, services are going to shit as a consequence, manufacturing skills are missing, tax revenues cant sustain these numbers so taxes go up for those of us still working, narrowing the gap still further. Its a vicious spiral of decline. Spot on particularly in public services and the jobs that kept the country going in covid.
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Post by gawa on Mar 13, 2024 10:07:47 GMT
The funny thing is only 90,000 are claiming job seekers allowance.
This isn't particularly surprising due to:
- Carers - Parents - Super rich whose dependants likely don't work and retire early - Students in full time education
But like Prestwich said its just a big distraction. I'm sure the number was much higher in the 1950s when you could raise large families on single incomes.
Maybe one day we will have a politician who isn't bribed from the rich to steal from the poor stand up and say what the real issue is. Inequality and wealth distribution.
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Post by thisisouryear on Mar 13, 2024 10:36:43 GMT
Plus all the full time carers out there who fill a huge void. Headline figures are there to shock, you have to drill down and look at the detail. Still it's the usual convenient distraction when everything is going to shit to point the blame at those not in work for a variety of reasons..... Do you think this isn't a problem then ? I think its reached a critical point, the financial gap between a career on benefits and average pay has been eroded so far that it appears a lot of people are just giving up, and using minor mental health issues as the excuse for doing so. Physical jobs can't be filled, services are going to shit as a consequence, manufacturing skills are missing, tax revenues cant sustain these numbers so taxes go up for those of us still working, narrowing the gap still further. Its a vicious spiral of decline. The answer isn't forcing more people into work though like the government want. It's making work attractive enough that people want jobs and that people who do work see the benefits of their labour. It's demorilsing going to work, feeling knackered every day just for all your wages go out on bills with nothing left over for people to have a little enjoyment. The low paid jobs are too low, there needs to be people doing these jobs, the country needs people doing those jobs. There's no incentive when you feel like you are working for nothing. Many working people are building up debts because their wages don't cover everything. Personally I think the minimum wage being lower than the living wage is scandalous, so many companies now use the minimum wage to pay people as least as possible legally whilst maximizing their own pockets. We have company's contract work out to businesses abroad so they can pay people even less. Farmers who only want foreign workers so they can force them to use their own provided accommodation so they can claim back some of their pay in rent. Our country is built on greed and it doesn't work for ordinary working people anymore. Manufacturing wont come back, it's cheaper to exploit cheap labour abroad in countries like China. The current climate is very difficult and it will be even harder for the next generations as wages get driven down further and likely more jobs will be offloaded on cheap labour from abroad. Kids today need to be encouraged a lot more to get a good education, parents can't just stand back and allow kids to just be kids if they don't want to see them struggling all their lives. Parents attitudes towards education need to change so that their children can adapt to whatever problems will come their way. A good education is more important than going out playing all the time when they aren't in school. Thinking things will get better is a pipedream, all my life things have only got worse and still getting worse.
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Post by cvillestokie on Mar 13, 2024 11:00:05 GMT
Do you think this isn't a problem then ? I think its reached a critical point, the financial gap between a career on benefits and average pay has been eroded so far that it appears a lot of people are just giving up, and using minor mental health issues as the excuse for doing so. Physical jobs can't be filled, services are going to shit as a consequence, manufacturing skills are missing, tax revenues cant sustain these numbers so taxes go up for those of us still working, narrowing the gap still further. Its a vicious spiral of decline. The answer isn't forcing more people into work though like the government want. It's making work attractive enough that people want jobs and that people who do work see the benefits of their labour. It's demorilsing going to work, feeling knackered every day just for all your wages go out on bills with nothing left over for people to have a little enjoyment. The low paid jobs are too low, there needs to be people doing these jobs, the country needs people doing those jobs. There's no incentive when you feel like you are working for nothing. Many working people are building up debts because their wages don't cover everything. Personally I think the minimum wage being lower than the living wage is scandalous, so many companies now use the minimum wage to pay people as least as possible legally whilst maximizing their own pockets. We have company's contract work out to businesses abroad so they can pay people even less. Farmers who only want foreign workers so they can force them to use their own provided accommodation so they can claim back some of their pay in rent. Our country is built on greed and it doesn't work for ordinary working people anymore. Manufacturing wont come back, it's cheaper to exploit cheap labour abroad in countries like China. The current climate is very difficult and it will be even harder for the next generations as wages get driven down further and likely more jobs will be offloaded on cheap labour from abroad. Kids today need to be encouraged a lot more to get a good education, parents can't just stand back and allow kids to just be kids if they don't want to see them struggling all their lives. Parents attitudes towards education need to change so that their children can adapt to whatever problems will come their way. A good education is more important than going out playing all the time when they aren't in school. Thinking things will get better is a pipedream, all my life things have only got worse and still getting worse. I absolutely agree r.e., parent’s attitudes to kids. There are so many people in the world pushing to do so few well-paid jobs. If you want your kid to have a good chance in getting one, then play shouldn’t be the primary thing that they do when they get home. I do also agree with comments further up that it seems Gen Z are prepared to use more minor mental health issues to get out of not working (which isn’t right because if you can work, you should work. It is not the govts responsibility to pay able-bodied people who just don’t like the options that their life choices to date have afforded them). That said, I do love history and in one of the Great Courses lectures on the post Civil War era, there was a number of quotes that business leaders of the time said along the lines of “this generation is work-shy. When I was a child…..” I think that it’s almost impossible not to fall into this trap.
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Post by gawa on Mar 13, 2024 11:06:05 GMT
Do you think this isn't a problem then ? I think its reached a critical point, the financial gap between a career on benefits and average pay has been eroded so far that it appears a lot of people are just giving up, and using minor mental health issues as the excuse for doing so. Physical jobs can't be filled, services are going to shit as a consequence, manufacturing skills are missing, tax revenues cant sustain these numbers so taxes go up for those of us still working, narrowing the gap still further. Its a vicious spiral of decline. The answer isn't forcing more people into work though like the government want. It's making work attractive enough that people want jobs and that people who do work see the benefits of their labour. It's demorilsing going to work, feeling knackered every day just for all your wages go out on bills with nothing left over for people to have a little enjoyment. The low paid jobs are too low, there needs to be people doing these jobs, the country needs people doing those jobs. There's no incentive when you feel like you are working for nothing. Many working people are building up debts because their wages don't cover everything. Personally I think the minimum wage being lower than the living wage is scandalous, so many companies now use the minimum wage to pay people as least as possible legally whilst maximizing their own pockets. We have company's contract work out to businesses abroad so they can pay people even less. Farmers who only want foreign workers so they can force them to use their own provided accommodation so they can claim back some of their pay in rent. Our country is built on greed and it doesn't work for ordinary working people anymore. Manufacturing wont come back, it's cheaper to exploit cheap labour abroad in countries like China. The current climate is very difficult and it will be even harder for the next generations as wages get driven down further and likely more jobs will be offloaded on cheap labour from abroad. Kids today need to be encouraged a lot more to get a good education, parents can't just stand back and allow kids to just be kids if they don't want to see them struggling all their lives. Parents attitudes towards education need to change so that their children can adapt to whatever problems will come their way. A good education is more important than going out playing all the time when they aren't in school. Thinking things will get better is a pipedream, all my life things have only got worse and still getting worse. We shouldn't be blaming ourselves or parents. Of course we can do better but we need to focus on those oppressing us rather than eschother.
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Post by musik on Mar 13, 2024 11:07:54 GMT
Does it mean only 20% do work in the UK?
The rest are looking for work?
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Post by wannabee on Mar 13, 2024 11:09:47 GMT
A surprisingly good and accurate Article from the Telegraph www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/03/07/budget-2024-mass-migration-growth-workforce-crisis-worsens/Economic Inactivity has always been high but it was trending down pre-pandemic, it has now gone up 700,000 since then with an 8M NHS Waiting List being the main reason. Undoubtedly Covid caused many to re-evaluate work life balance and the ability to retire at 55 and take a 25% Lumpsum Tax Free from Pension Pot has proved attractive. As others have said Childcare Costs have made it very marginal in many cases to work. The freezing of Tax Free Allowances has also deterred some entering and others working more hours. The reasons are many and varied. The gap has been plugged by Immigrants, more than 400K entering workforce in 2023 to partly offset Brits leaving it. The Telegraph Article does a good job in explaining Jeremy's recent Budget that relies on an upward estimate from OBR of 350K net migrants per year for next 5 years to make Budget balance but for the Economy to remain Static but with an Adult Population increase from 55M to 57M The Article does mention the strain this will place on Health, Housing, Education etc with minimal increase to Budget for these Departments It glosses over that with increased population and minimal growth GDP per Capita will obviously fall. The definition of doing the same thing .... etc etc
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Post by adri2008 on Mar 13, 2024 11:41:58 GMT
A surprisingly good and accurate Article from the Telegraph www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/03/07/budget-2024-mass-migration-growth-workforce-crisis-worsens/Economic Inactivity has always been high but it was trending down pre-pandemic, it has now gone up 700,000 since then with an 8M NHS Waiting List being the main reason. Undoubtedly Covid caused many to re-evaluate work life balance and the ability to retire at 55 and take a 25% Lumpsum Tax Free from Pension Pot has proved attractive. As others have said Childcare Costs have made it very marginal in many cases to work. The freezing of Tax Free Allowances has also deterred some entering and others working more hours. The reasons are many and varied. The gap has been plugged by Immigrants, more than 400K entering workforce in 2023 to partly offset Brits leaving it. The Telegraph Article does a good job in explaining Jeremy's recent Budget that relies on an upward estimate from OBR of 350K net migrants per year for next 5 years to make Budget balance but for the Economy to remain Static but with an Adult Population increase from 55M to 57M The Article does mention the strain this will place on Health, Housing, Education etc with minimal increase to Budget for these Departments It glosses over that with increased population and minimal growth GDP per Capita will obviously fall. The definition of doing the same thing .... etc etc Migration is the easy option for the government. Other wise everyone else has to pay more through taxes which they are already disgruntled about. I think it's inevitable that the pension age will be increased substantially too - the state pension is basically a Ponzi scheme which doesn't work if the working population is reducing.
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Post by redstriper on Mar 13, 2024 11:42:08 GMT
I agree wealth distribution is a big problem too, but only at the top end (richest 1% or so). It's pretty much impossible to solve by any country in isolation as the super rich simply move their wealth globally. The figures at the top of the tree are impossible to defend, but seemingly governments can do little about it. Instead they over tax ordinary workers and ordinary businesses, because they are the soft targets.
Meantime the super rich continue to dick wave with impunity by flashing money at space rockets and super yachts, both of which have the added downside of fucking up the planet.
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Post by musik on Mar 13, 2024 11:54:42 GMT
Too many people work only to push the inflation upwards; their work's contribution to society is very doubtful. So if they didn't and instead got a lower societal benefit payment we could be better off. It needs thinking outside the box though.
Simplified example If person A gets a £2500 wage per month but the value of that work is only £600, then he/she is overpaid by £1900 - which is a societal cost. It would be much better to give the person only £1000, to do nothing.
The future will require part time job splits overall among the population. And AI isn't the only reason for it.
I can only speak for Sweden in detail, but the marginal value another working hour brings here has been negative for many years. So the more people we get, the worse it gets. EVEN if they work!!
/economist
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Post by wannabee on Mar 13, 2024 16:12:32 GMT
A surprisingly good and accurate Article from the Telegraph www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/03/07/budget-2024-mass-migration-growth-workforce-crisis-worsens/Economic Inactivity has always been high but it was trending down pre-pandemic, it has now gone up 700,000 since then with an 8M NHS Waiting List being the main reason. Undoubtedly Covid caused many to re-evaluate work life balance and the ability to retire at 55 and take a 25% Lumpsum Tax Free from Pension Pot has proved attractive. As others have said Childcare Costs have made it very marginal in many cases to work. The freezing of Tax Free Allowances has also deterred some entering and others working more hours. The reasons are many and varied. The gap has been plugged by Immigrants, more than 400K entering workforce in 2023 to partly offset Brits leaving it. The Telegraph Article does a good job in explaining Jeremy's recent Budget that relies on an upward estimate from OBR of 350K net migrants per year for next 5 years to make Budget balance but for the Economy to remain Static but with an Adult Population increase from 55M to 57M The Article does mention the strain this will place on Health, Housing, Education etc with minimal increase to Budget for these Departments It glosses over that with increased population and minimal growth GDP per Capita will obviously fall. The definition of doing the same thing .... etc etc Migration is the easy option for the government. Other wise everyone else has to pay more through taxes which they are already disgruntled about. I think it's inevitable that the pension age will be increased substantially too - the state pension is basically a Ponzi scheme which doesn't work if the working population is reducing. I agree with you which is why it is so disingenuous of Government to say one thing and do another with no Plan B Hunt knows and recognises that net migration is necessary to balance the books and remain stagnant not move forward. Jimmy Dimley will then say he will curb net migration and Cruella and Braverman will agree and then everyone will feign surprise when the actual number ends up higher than anyone predicted. Meanwhile even though higher net migration is baked into forecast no provision is made for this NHS, Housing, Education etc Until the mindset changes to upskill the workforce, change the curriculum, inject Public and Private Finace into Housing and Infrastructure, Capital Investment in new technology it will just be a drip drip downward spiral where the majority become poorer in real terms and Public Services deteriorate.
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Post by henry on Mar 13, 2024 17:28:56 GMT
Workshy Scroungers Layabouts
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Post by gawa on Mar 13, 2024 17:37:36 GMT
A surprisingly good and accurate Article from the Telegraph www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/03/07/budget-2024-mass-migration-growth-workforce-crisis-worsens/Economic Inactivity has always been high but it was trending down pre-pandemic, it has now gone up 700,000 since then with an 8M NHS Waiting List being the main reason. Undoubtedly Covid caused many to re-evaluate work life balance and the ability to retire at 55 and take a 25% Lumpsum Tax Free from Pension Pot has proved attractive. As others have said Childcare Costs have made it very marginal in many cases to work. The freezing of Tax Free Allowances has also deterred some entering and others working more hours. The reasons are many and varied. The gap has been plugged by Immigrants, more than 400K entering workforce in 2023 to partly offset Brits leaving it. The Telegraph Article does a good job in explaining Jeremy's recent Budget that relies on an upward estimate from OBR of 350K net migrants per year for next 5 years to make Budget balance but for the Economy to remain Static but with an Adult Population increase from 55M to 57M The Article does mention the strain this will place on Health, Housing, Education etc with minimal increase to Budget for these Departments It glosses over that with increased population and minimal growth GDP per Capita will obviously fall. The definition of doing the same thing .... etc etc The problem with migrants is its just a sticking plaster rather than a solution. Birth rates are reducing and people are living longer meaning there isn't enough working people to support the population. Hench migration. But if the migrants coming in aren't closing the birth rate gap then we are just kicking the can down the road and the next generation will then have just as many or more migrants needed to support them. Really we should be tackling the problem at the root. I.e. making rasing children and running a household more affordable so that people who may want kids can afford to have them and raise them. It feels like we have no interest in tackling the root cause though and just want to put a plaster over it for the current generation but that's not gonna fix the problem long term.
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Post by mtrstudent on Mar 13, 2024 18:18:46 GMT
Simplified example If person A gets a £2500 wage per month but the value of that work is only £600, then he/she is overpaid by £1900 - which is a societal cost. It would be much better to give the person only £1000, to do nothing. I think it's valuable that people work Maybe it'd be better if they kept the £1000 but could still do an extra £600 work and keep that cash. At least they'd realise the value of some of their money. I don't think private jobs do the thing where they pay £2500 for £600 value though.
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Post by liathroid on Mar 13, 2024 18:20:53 GMT
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Mar 13, 2024 18:37:38 GMT
A big chunk of the jobless will be immigrants. That’s pretty clear from walking around town centres in the afternoon
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Post by middleoftheboothen on Mar 13, 2024 18:49:08 GMT
A big chunk of the jobless will be immigrants. That’s pretty clear from walking around town centres in the afternoon Agreed mate. Don't really need to work when you've got a comfy hotel to go to with all expenses paid though.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Mar 13, 2024 18:50:56 GMT
Workshy Scroungers Layabouts The thread on the Royal Family is further down….
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Post by prestwichpotter on Mar 13, 2024 18:51:50 GMT
A big chunk of the jobless will be immigrants. That’s pretty clear from walking around town centres in the afternoon Agreed mate. Don't really need to work when you've got a comfy hotel to go to with all expenses paid though. And they’re not allowed to work of course…….
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Post by bigvern on Mar 13, 2024 18:53:55 GMT
I'm quite looking forward to grafting until 71. If we could possibly manage a few more dinghies across the channel the dream is to die at work.
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Post by chuffedstokie on Mar 13, 2024 18:58:26 GMT
Plus all the full time carers out there who fill a huge void. Headline figures are there to shock, you have to drill down and look at the detail. Still it's the usual convenient distraction when everything is going to shit to point the blame at those not in work for a variety of reasons..... Do you think this isn't a problem then ? I think its reached a critical point, the financial gap between a career on benefits and average pay has been eroded so far that it appears a lot of people are just giving up, and using minor mental health issues as the excuse for doing so. Physical jobs can't be filled, services are going to shit as a consequence, manufacturing skills are missing, tax revenues cant sustain these numbers so taxes go up for those of us still working, narrowing the gap still further. Its a vicious spiral of decline. You've met my next door neighbour then.
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