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Post by cobhamstokey on Feb 5, 2024 20:58:24 GMT
If I had my wife, son or daughter and they were seriously ill and they had a far better chance of survival by going private (and I could afford it and even if I couldn’t) then political posturing would go out of the window I’m afraid. I wouldn’t put my families life at risk just so I could boast about what a great guy I was because I went with the NHS and sacrificed a loved one in doing so. I guess it depends on what’s more important politics (something we have little impact on) or family (something we can do a lot about). It's not really as clear cut as that. There's no particularly strong evidence that survival rates are better in the private sector than the NHS as there are too many other variables (private patients often being younger and more healthy generally) and insurance companies imposing their own restrictions. Where you may gain is getting an earlier diagnosis and access to more expensive drugs for less common conditions. It's non urgent traetments (hip replacements etc) where private really wins out - getting treatment sometimes years earlier than NHS So it shouldn’t really make any difference then if he goes private or not then? In fact if he does he’s freeing up an extra bed in the NHS.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Feb 5, 2024 21:01:09 GMT
It's not really as clear cut as that. There's no particularly strong evidence that survival rates are better in the private sector than the NHS as there are too many other variables (private patients often being younger and more healthy generally) and insurance companies imposing their own restrictions. Where you may gain is getting an earlier diagnosis and access to more expensive drugs for less common conditions. It's non urgent traetments (hip replacements etc) where private really wins out - getting treatment sometimes years earlier than NHS So it shouldn’t really make any difference then if he goes private or not then? In fact if he does he’s freeing up an extra bed in the NHS. Your last sentence is an excellent point Cobs and really there is no argument
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Feb 5, 2024 21:06:59 GMT
It's not really as clear cut as that. There's no particularly strong evidence that survival rates are better in the private sector than the NHS as there are too many other variables (private patients often being younger and more healthy generally) and insurance companies imposing their own restrictions. Where you may gain is getting an earlier diagnosis and access to more expensive drugs for less common conditions. It's non urgent traetments (hip replacements etc) where private really wins out - getting treatment sometimes years earlier than NHS So it shouldn’t really make any difference then if he goes private or not then? In fact if he does he’s freeing up an extra bed in the NHS. And taking away numerous NHS staff, so not so good.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Feb 5, 2024 21:07:45 GMT
It's not really as clear cut as that. There's no particularly strong evidence that survival rates are better in the private sector than the NHS as there are too many other variables (private patients often being younger and more healthy generally) and insurance companies imposing their own restrictions. Where you may gain is getting an earlier diagnosis and access to more expensive drugs for less common conditions. It's non urgent traetments (hip replacements etc) where private really wins out - getting treatment sometimes years earlier than NHS So it shouldn’t really make any difference then if he goes private or not then? In fact if he does he’s freeing up an extra bed in the NHS. I wasn't arguing one way or another - just pointing out that the debate about 'private' is often misinformed. I'm personally not anti private per se - but I do have an issue with doctors training in the public sector and then working in the private sector with a foot in either camp. It means the private sector are getting doctors on the cheap and creates a conflict interest whereby the longer the NHS waiting list the more financially advantageous it is for the doctor.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Feb 5, 2024 21:11:57 GMT
So it shouldn’t really make any difference then if he goes private or not then? In fact if he does he’s freeing up an extra bed in the NHS. I wasn't arguing one way or another - just pointing out that the debate about 'private' is often misinformed. I'm personally not anti private per se - but I do have an issue with doctors training in the public sector and then working in the private sector with a foot in either camp. It means the private sector are getting doctors on the cheap and creates a conflict interest whereby the longer the NHS waiting list the more financially advantageous it is for the doctor. Doctors are increasingly shortening their hours with the NHS whilst setting up their own businesses such as cosmetic surgery. It’s happening at an alarming rate. Things like Botox, lip fillers etc
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Post by cobhamstokey on Feb 5, 2024 21:16:12 GMT
So it shouldn’t really make any difference then if he goes private or not then? In fact if he does he’s freeing up an extra bed in the NHS. And taking away numerous NHS staff, so not so good. They’ve done that themselves by leaving for better pay that’s the governments fault not the kings.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Feb 5, 2024 21:17:57 GMT
I wasn't arguing one way or another - just pointing out that the debate about 'private' is often misinformed. I'm personally not anti private per se - but I do have an issue with doctors training in the public sector and then working in the private sector with a foot in either camp. It means the private sector are getting doctors on the cheap and creates a conflict interest whereby the longer the NHS waiting list the more financially advantageous it is for the doctor. Doctors are increasingly shortening their hours with the NHS whilst setting up their own businesses such as cosmetic surgery. It’s happening at an alarming rate. Things like Botox, lip fillers etc And then when it's botched or infected there's an expectation that the NHS will sort it out. It's all fucked from top to bottom and back again.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Feb 5, 2024 21:21:06 GMT
Doctors are increasingly shortening their hours with the NHS whilst setting up their own businesses such as cosmetic surgery. It’s happening at an alarming rate. Things like Botox, lip fillers etc And then when it's botched or infected there's an expectation that the NHS will sort it out. It's all fucked from top to bottom and back again. Yep you’re right. I have it as solid as it could be that this is happening. They have free rein at the NHS to do what they like in order to keep them at the job they’re supposed to do. I’m talking about the high paid people in management
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Post by cvillestokie on Feb 5, 2024 22:20:40 GMT
The best way to survive any cancer is to find and treat it as soon as possible. If he can get faster treatment private, he’d be stupid to not go with it.
It’s a sword I wouldn’t want to die on.
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Post by smallthorner on Feb 5, 2024 22:53:59 GMT
It's not really as clear cut as that. There's no particularly strong evidence that survival rates are better in the private sector than the NHS as there are too many other variables (private patients often being younger and more healthy generally) and insurance companies imposing their own restrictions. Where you may gain is getting an earlier diagnosis and access to more expensive drugs for less common conditions. It's non urgent traetments (hip replacements etc) where private really wins out - getting treatment sometimes years earlier than NHS So it shouldn’t really make any difference then if he goes private or not then? In fact if he does he’s freeing up an extra bed in the NHS. Other than sending a message to the plebs and the Government that the NHS is there for all of us. Be it a king or a pauper. It's a massive opportunity for monarchy PR.
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Post by cvillestokie on Feb 5, 2024 23:00:09 GMT
So it shouldn’t really make any difference then if he goes private or not then? In fact if he does he’s freeing up an extra bed in the NHS. Other than sending a message to the plebs and the Government that the NHS is there for all of us. Be it a king or a pauper. It's a massive opportunity for monarchy PR. He talks about climate change while flying around in a private jet. Why do you think he’d care about monarchy PR?
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Post by smallthorner on Feb 5, 2024 23:12:31 GMT
Other than sending a message to the plebs and the Government that the NHS is there for all of us. Be it a king or a pauper. It's a massive opportunity for monarchy PR. He talks about climate change while flying around in a private jet. Why do you think he’d care about monarchy PR? Good point. Just trying to suggest a route of getting the republican plebs (me included) onside. No wish of harm to the bloke of course and hope he has a successful recovery.
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Post by auntiegeorge on Feb 5, 2024 23:28:27 GMT
Other than sending a message to the plebs and the Government that the NHS is there for all of us. Be it a king or a pauper. It's a massive opportunity for monarchy PR. He talks about climate change while flying around in a private jet. Why do you think he’d care about monarchy PR? You would have him waiting at the gate with the rest of us for three hours at Luton Airport for an easyJet flight? Think of the PR disaster that would be: "CHARLES WASTES THREE HOURS QUEUEING FOR FLIGHT. KING AND ENTOURAGE TAKE UP TEN SEATS ON PLANE. PASSENGERS KICKED OFF AND LEFT STRANDED AT LUTON"
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Post by wannabee on Feb 6, 2024 0:03:14 GMT
A quote from an unnamed Poster "That aside I guess i’ve always felt that if you’re a leader you should always be someone to look up to and be pretty squeaky clean and lead by example so you don’t give the likes of the Scum the opportunity the chance to put peoples personal life out there." Personally I bear no ill will towards Charles I hope he makes a speedy recovery from whatever illness he may be afflicted with. I find him a curious character but hardly surprising given his cocooned background within a dysfunctional family. I do however find it bizarre that some people would have blind allegiance to a person purely on the basis of their birthright. It takes all sorts I suppose.
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Post by dutchstokie on Feb 6, 2024 6:08:43 GMT
Get well soon your Majesty
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Post by felonious on Feb 6, 2024 7:03:37 GMT
A quote from an unnamed Poster "That aside I guess i’ve always felt that if you’re a leader you should always be someone to look up to and be pretty squeaky clean and lead by example so you don’t give the likes of the Scum the opportunity the chance to put peoples personal life out there." View AttachmentPersonally I bear no ill will towards Charles I hope he makes a speedy recovery from whatever illness he may be afflicted with. I find him a curious character but hardly surprising given his cocooned background within a dysfunctional family. I do however find it bizarre that some people would have blind allegiance to a person purely on the basis of their birthright. It takes all sorts I suppose. There's a republican thread which allows posters to vent their spleen on the Royal family this one probably isn't it.......
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Post by cobhamstokey on Feb 6, 2024 7:20:43 GMT
A quote from an unnamed Poster "That aside I guess i’ve always felt that if you’re a leader you should always be someone to look up to and be pretty squeaky clean and lead by example so you don’t give the likes of the Scum the opportunity the chance to put peoples personal life out there." View AttachmentPersonally I bear no ill will towards Charles I hope he makes a speedy recovery from whatever illness he may be afflicted with. I find him a curious character but hardly surprising given his cocooned background within a dysfunctional family. I do however find it bizarre that some people would have blind allegiance to a person purely on the basis of their birthright. It takes all sorts I suppose. No issue with you naming me (I’m just very impressed that you take such an interest in my posts). Let’s face it no one’s perfect certainly not Charles and there are times he’s acted badly (including your attachment) which can’t be defended but he’s also done some very good stuff which I’m sure you’d never dream of highlighting. That said if the person highlighted in that thread was very ill I’d be wishing him the best in relation to getting well too not bringing politics into what is a thread wishing someone with cancer the very best re getting better. The problem with you and others is that you allow politics to make you so bitter towards your fellow human if they’re born into privilege (not there fault) or they don’t agree with your political idealism. If you don’t wish someone with cancer your best wishes then sometimes the best things to say nothing. As Badger said if it was Corbyn or one of your poster boys that was ill I’d like to think that I wasn’t bitter enough not to wish him well without adding some snide comment.
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Post by maxplonk on Feb 6, 2024 7:25:34 GMT
I've always empathised with Charles, having to wait an incredibly long time to do the only job he was ever allowed to do. It seems particularly harsh that having finally ascended the throne, his reign might have to be prematurely curtailed due to illness.
"Gute Besserung", as his ancestors might say.
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Post by maxplonk on Feb 6, 2024 7:28:20 GMT
Not gonna add to this thread anymore I've said my bit, and I wish MY KING a speedy recovery. The thread will no doubt descend into a platform of disrespect and hatred from our left leaning members, but let em. Thankfully in this great country of ours they are in the minority Goodnight all. As a left-leaning member, I object to this post.
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Post by wannabee on Feb 6, 2024 7:54:13 GMT
A quote from an unnamed Poster "That aside I guess i’ve always felt that if you’re a leader you should always be someone to look up to and be pretty squeaky clean and lead by example so you don’t give the likes of the Scum the opportunity the chance to put peoples personal life out there." View AttachmentPersonally I bear no ill will towards Charles I hope he makes a speedy recovery from whatever illness he may be afflicted with. I find him a curious character but hardly surprising given his cocooned background within a dysfunctional family. I do however find it bizarre that some people would have blind allegiance to a person purely on the basis of their birthright. It takes all sorts I suppose. No issue with you naming me (I’m just very impressed that you take such an interest in my posts). Let’s face it no one’s perfect certainly not Charles and there are times he’s acted badly (including your attachment) which can’t be defended but he’s also done some very good stuff which I’m sure you’d never dream of highlighting. That said if the person highlighted in that thread was very ill I’d be wishing him the best in relation to getting well too not bringing politics into what is a thread wishing someone with cancer the very best re getting better. The problem with you and others is that you allow politics to make you so bitter towards your fellow human if they’re born into privilege (not there fault) or they don’t agree with your political idealism. If you don’t wish someone with cancer your best wishes then sometimes the best things to say nothing. As Badger said if it was Corbyn or one of your poster boys that was ill I’d like to think that I wasn’t bitter enough not to wish him well without adding some snide comment. That particular post of yours stood out because you went on to talk about Hypocrisy I have wished Charles Well .... you've just quoted it I bear no I'll will towards Charles or any of the Royal Family, well maybe Andrew. I just find the whole forelock tugging to a person due to accident of birth rather feudal.
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Post by riverman on Feb 6, 2024 7:57:12 GMT
I for one hope he recovers well. Anything to spare us that drawn out over blown bollocks we had to put up with a couple of years ago.
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Post by hotterpotter on Feb 6, 2024 7:59:41 GMT
Since the thread has gone down one of the predictable Oatcake rabbit holes, would any anti-monarchist seriously change their view because The King went NHS? I suspect the response would be along the lines of "He expects us to fall for that one?"
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Post by Northy on Feb 6, 2024 8:03:45 GMT
Wishing him a speedy recovery.
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Post by lawrieleslie on Feb 6, 2024 8:03:51 GMT
Having gone through surgery, 6 months chemotherapy and 4 years of follow up scans, I know what he is going through and wish him well and full recovery. The fact that buck house are not revealing what type of cancer it is has a double edged sword imo. By revealing what the cancer is would give hope to those who had it. On the other hand just saying he has an unspecified cancer gives hope to many more people. Last night we talked and tried to speculate what the fate of Camilla would be if he didn’t survive. Unlike when King George 6th died royal privilege was bestowed upon his widow because, although she was not of royal birth, she was bloodline mother to Princess Elizabeth and Margaret and given the official title of Queen mother. However this is not the case with Camilla and I don’t think there is a precedent. So what do oatcakes think will happen to her?
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Post by cobhamstokey on Feb 6, 2024 8:07:26 GMT
Since the thread has gone down one of the predictable Oatcake rabbit holes, would any anti-monarchist seriously change their view because The King went NHS? I suspect the response would be along the lines of "He expects us to fall for that one?" Even if he wanted to I doubt he could due to the risk to security. They’d have to probably close a ward off and bring in a huge number of close protection etc. Logistically and for staff and other patients it’d be a nightmare. Sometimes you have to look for the best solution for all.
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Post by lordb on Feb 6, 2024 8:30:10 GMT
Having gone through surgery, 6 months chemotherapy and 4 years of follow up scans, I know what he is going through and wish him well and full recovery. The fact that buck house are not revealing what type of cancer it is has a double edged sword imo. By revealing what the cancer is would give hope to those who had it. On the other hand just saying he has an unspecified cancer gives hope to many more people. Last night we talked and tried to speculate what the fate of Camilla would be if he didn’t survive. Unlike when King George 6th died royal privilege was bestowed upon his widow because, although she was not of royal birth, she was bloodline mother to Princess Elizabeth and Margaret and given the official title of Queen mother. However this is not the case with Camilla and I don’t think there is a precedent. So what do oatcakes think will happen to her? After all the years of scorn she's ended up being quite popular Suspect they will either grant her a title with Queen in it or some other lofty title
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Post by oggyoggy on Feb 6, 2024 9:02:22 GMT
Playing Devil’s Advocate, isn’t it vital the rich don’t use the NHS and take up valuable bed spaces and resources instead of those who cannot afford to go private? Plus think of the cost to the public purse of the extra security required to protect the King from lunatics if he were in a normal NHS ward if in hospital. The same goes for using publicly available planes. Anyone questioning the King’s green credentials is really clutching at straws. There are plenty of other things to criticise the monarchy as a whole over.
I wish him all the best and I hope he makes a speedy and full recovery.
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Post by deeside2 on Feb 6, 2024 9:04:40 GMT
Having gone through surgery, 6 months chemotherapy and 4 years of follow up scans, I know what he is going through and wish him well and full recovery. The fact that buck house are not revealing what type of cancer it is has a double edged sword imo. By revealing what the cancer is would give hope to those who had it. On the other hand just saying he has an unspecified cancer gives hope to many more people. Last night we talked and tried to speculate what the fate of Camilla would be if he didn’t survive. Unlike when King George 6th died royal privilege was bestowed upon his widow because, although she was not of royal birth, she was bloodline mother to Princess Elizabeth and Margaret and given the official title of Queen mother. However this is not the case with Camilla and I don’t think there is a precedent. So what do oatcakes think will happen to her? After all the years of scorn she's ended up being quite popular Suspect they will either grant her a title with Queen in it or some other lofty title I think I read around the time of the coronation that she'd officially become Queen Dowager if she outlived Charles.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Feb 6, 2024 9:23:04 GMT
Playing Devil’s Advocate, isn’t it vital the rich don’t use the NHS and take up valuable bed spaces and resources instead of those who cannot afford to go private? Plus think of the cost to the public purse of the extra security required to protect the King from lunatics if he were in a normal NHS ward if in hospital. The same goes for using publicly available planes. Anyone questioning the King’s green credentials is really clutching at straws. There are plenty of other things to criticise the monarchy as a whole over. I wish him all the best and I hope he makes a speedy and full recovery. Well said.
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Post by noustie on Feb 6, 2024 9:40:29 GMT
Bit of a scoop for the Beeb in fairness that Nicholas Witchell was able to report live from the scene as the colonoscopy past by him!
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