boult
Spectator
Posts: 47
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Post by boult on Feb 3, 2024 18:26:03 GMT
There's a trend (not 100%, but significant) that goes all the way back to Rowett. The manager we sack goes to another club and their fortunes start improving. The manager we hire may get a little bounce but then gets bogged down in whatever the entrenched issues are at the club, whilst the club they came from hire someone else and generally push upwards.
That tells me across three clubs (ours, the club from which we recruited and the club our sacked manager took control) that the manager isn't the problem.
I know a quite a few don't like talking about Pulis, but for his second reign he commanded significant control on purchases and football decisions. It worked. They took it from him (and who was placed into the position of significant control?), and he left. Yes, there were a few good seasons with Hughes (who did attract some quality players), but once the 'Pulis Spine' was gone it was all over red rover.
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Post by citynickscfc on Feb 3, 2024 18:27:12 GMT
The vast majority on here wanted a Director of Football and a recruitment guru. The vast majority on here applauded the signing of players who had no experience of Championship football. John Coates has only done what the vast majority of posters thought was the right thing to do. But we did it in a lazy half arsed manner by allowing the manager to bring in his own men ,there can't be a single club in the country who went about it that way. So we have a new manager/ head coach working under the previous manager's go to guys ! Exactly this. Either SS doesn't trust the recruitment (because it's shit) or theirs no structure because it's shit.
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Post by Gods on Feb 3, 2024 18:27:36 GMT
Terrifying that R.Martin is running the operation.
He is certifiably insane, barking mad to put it another way.
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Post by milton58 on Feb 3, 2024 18:30:49 GMT
So if JC says enough is enough and fucks the coates money out of stoke where do you think we will actually end up....we would be fucked who the fuck would won't to buy stoke ffs Well here's an idea. They continue as owners but bring people in who actually know what they are doing to actually run the club. like who we've been here on numerous occasions since relegation....the answer from our supporters sack another manager get rid of the owners.... do we want to be the next reading cause if some of our supporters got what they wanted we would be
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Post by theonlooker on Feb 3, 2024 18:31:55 GMT
So if JC says enough is enough and fucks the coates money out of stoke where do you think we will actually end up....we would be fucked who the fuck would won't to buy stoke ffs Just because the family are absolutely useless with money, doesn't automatically mean others would be with less. Brains are more important in this game, and our owners clearly have none in this game.
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Post by milky on Feb 3, 2024 18:33:20 GMT
There's a trend (not 100%, but significant) that goes all the way back to Rowett. The manager we sack goes to another club and their fortunes start improving. The manager we hire may get a little bounce but then gets bogged down in whatever the entrenched issues are at the club, whilst the club they came from hire someone else and generally push upwards. That tells me across three clubs (ours, the club from which we recruited and the club our sacked manager took control) that the manager isn't the problem. I know a quite a few don't like talking about Pulis, but for his second reign he commanded significant control on purchases and football decisions. It worked. They took it from him (and who was placed into the position of significant control?), and he left. Yes, there were a few good seasons with Hughes (who did attract some quality players), but once the 'Pulis Spine' was gone it was all over red rover. Despite our half baked attempt as a club to move with the times its pretty clear the manager / head coach ,call him what you like ,has far too much responsibility on his plate. When Hughes asked " who else is going to do this job ?" towards the end of his tenure I wonder if we misunderstood what he was alluding to.
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Post by a on Feb 3, 2024 18:34:21 GMT
Time to sell to an owner who has a clue maybe? Because there’s loads of multi millionaires out there desperate to throw money at a championship football club threatened with relegation Bingo
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Post by sealion100 on Feb 3, 2024 18:39:19 GMT
Coates cannot afford another home defeat .. IF we loose to QPR We’re doomed and he’s gone ….. !!!! Never expected us to win today BUT to not even turn up is a disaster
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Post by chad on Feb 3, 2024 18:46:34 GMT
Coates cannot afford another home defeat .. IF we loose to QPR We’re doomed and he’s gone ….. !!!! Never expected us to win today BUT to not even turn up is a disaster Coates gone ? Gone where. He owns the club What should he do wind us up ?
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Post by danceswithclams on Feb 3, 2024 18:51:34 GMT
Well here's an idea. They continue as owners but bring people in who actually know what they are doing to actually run the club. like who we've been here on numerous occasions since relegation....the answer from our supporters sack another manager get rid of the owners.... do we want to be the next reading cause if some of our supporters got what they wanted we would be Why do members of the Coates cult insist that if anyone other than 'The Family' owned the club it'd 100% be someone unscrupulous like that pipe at Reading? There seems to be an overriding view that without the Coates there'd be no Stoke City. There was before them and there will be after they've long gone. It's the whole idea that they are the club (and exempt from criticism/being ousted and we should all just be forever grateful to our uber-capitalist overlords) that I can't get on board with. Nobody is bigger than the club and they're merely custodians. "But who's going to buy an underperforming Championship club laden with debt?" I hear you ask. Well, that question is probably best answered by fans of Burnley, Southampton, Bournemouth, Leicester etc. It's also worth pointing out that two wealthy Hollywood actors bought a struggling, small Welsh outfit and that club is now storming up the leagues. Surely even in its current malaise, SCFC is a better investment prospect than Wrexham were at the time they were taken over? I simply don't buy the idea that there's nobody out there who'd take a punt on Stoke or that anyone who did would definitely be some criminal or chancer who'd run the club into the ground. We're sleepwalking into perpetual mediocrity (or worse) under the current ownership but there seems to be a lot of fans out there who are ok with this, just so long as we've still got a club (even if said club ends up in the fucking National League). We deserve better than this.
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Post by blackpoolred on Feb 3, 2024 18:58:00 GMT
The vast majority on here wanted a Director of Football and a recruitment guru. The vast majority on here applauded the signing of players who had no experience of Championship football. John Coates has only done what the vast majority of posters thought was the right thing to do. The vast majority of us wanted him to sign a quality manager, which pretty much means going the foreign route. If you are xenophobic and refuse to even acknowledge people who are not born on the same lump as mud as you - then you really have no part to play in the modern game of football - your cutting out 90%+ of the market and as stated all the quality options - and lets not get started on being miles behind the curve in the women's game. He has once again brought in another British punt, which I personally had to google again, on the back of him being enthusiastic in the interview, a guy with virtually no experience as a manager, managed a club for a handful of games at this particular level - to try and rebuild a club from the ground up. Before the Coates family arrived we had never played in tier 3 proper in our history - and we now face going there for the 3rd time under their guidance in a short space of time in our recent history. We have a message coming out of the club that 80% of our players were up for sale in this window, that is either a guy who has no ambition whatsoever for our great club or total admittance that the last few transfer windows have been a disaster and the squad is utterly garbage - either way it is not a good look. We go into this window with not a solitary viable left-back at the club, given last weeks performance, unforgivable that we did not get somebody in that position in the Jan window - the irony is we have owners who possess one of the biggest gambling empires in the world, but nobody at the club can seem to count - not the first time we have been left with zero players to chose from in a defensive position in our recent history - our relegation from the prem season saw a centre-forward as the only option at right-back. Its almost harder to fail than succeed with a club of our size and investment compared to others at this level - yet here we are again with the same people and the same owd catastrophic failure. They have to go, he has to go - or else all we have to look forward to for the unforeseeable is dour British no-hoper managers and shambolic leadership
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Post by spoton on Feb 3, 2024 19:01:27 GMT
like who we've been here on numerous occasions since relegation....the answer from our supporters sack another manager get rid of the owners.... do we want to be the next reading cause if some of our supporters got what they wanted we would be Why do members of the Coates cult insist that if anyone other than 'The Family' owned the club it'd 100% be someone unscrupulous like that pipe at Reading? There seems to be an overriding view that without the Coates there'd be no Stoke City. There was before them and there will be after they've long gone. It's the whole idea that they are the club (and exempt from criticism/being ousted and we should all just be forever grateful to our uber-capitalist overlords) that I can't get on board with. Nobody is bigger than the club and they're merely custodians. "But who's going to buy an underperforming Championship club laden with debt?" I hear you ask. Well, that question is probably best answered by fans of Burnley, Southampton, Bournemouth, Leicester etc. It's also worth pointing out that two wealthy Hollywood actors bought a struggling, small Welsh outfit and that club is now storming up the leagues. Surely even in it's current malaise, SCFC is a better investment prospect than Wrexham were at the time they were taken over? I simply don't buy the idea that there's nobody out there who'd take a punt on Stoke or that anyone who did would definitely be some criminal or chancer who'd run the club into the ground. We're sleepwalking into perpetual mediocrity (or worse) under the current ownership but there seems to be a lot of fans out there who are ok with this, just so long as we've still got a club (even if said club ends up in the fucking National League). We deserve better than this. Totally agree there will be a few people or organisations interested in us,
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Post by Block 26 on Feb 3, 2024 19:01:36 GMT
Agreed
The club is so laid back that it doesn’t matter who comes in as manager, player, training staff… you come to Stoke & get an easy life.
If I was JC today I would have been in that dressing room after the game demanding explanation's to the players performance. He does not give a hoot.
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Post by dutchstokie on Feb 3, 2024 19:04:15 GMT
There's a trend (not 100%, but significant) that goes all the way back to Rowett. The manager we sack goes to another club and their fortunes start improving. The manager we hire may get a little bounce but then gets bogged down in whatever the entrenched issues are at the club, whilst the club they came from hire someone else and generally push upwards. That tells me across three clubs (ours, the club from which we recruited and the club our sacked manager took control) that the manager isn't the problem. I know a quite a few don't like talking about Pulis, but for his second reign he commanded significant control on purchases and football decisions. It worked. They took it from him (and who was placed into the position of significant control?), and he left. Yes, there were a few good seasons with Hughes (who did attract some quality players), but once the 'Pulis Spine' was gone it was all over red rover. …… AND, don’t forget the telling comment from Hughes, which was something along the lines of “ well who else would do this job”?. It does beg the question of interference from above…
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Post by jzime on Feb 3, 2024 19:51:14 GMT
Ive said it before (for the moaners without a footballing brain) Without the coates family it would be FAR worse than a bad manager. Supporters without a clue, who see things in black and white are are a big problem for the club. We'll see in the next 4 games We've finished in the bottom half of the second division every season since we got relegated (and will again this season), despite spending tens of millions of pounds in that time and constantly having to do creative accountancy to stay within what is permitted by FFP. Feels like a long time ago now, but we were the odds-on favourites to go back up at the first time of asking but have not once even threatened to have a half-decent season. We've got almost every major decision wrong since we sacked Hughes. Including waiting far too long to sack him to begin with; a mistake we repeated with MoN (who was given a summer transfer window to rebuild us only to be sacked while it was literally still the summer!) and with Alex Neil. No matter what the exact recruitment and scouting structure is, we've been abysmal in the transfer marker ever since we signed Imbula. We bounce from crisis to crisis, never seeming to have a long-term vision to put things right. You don't have to only see things in 'black and white' to think that isn't good enough. This isn't a case of overreacting to every bad defeat we have. This is the cold, hard reality of the state that the club is in.
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Post by retrostoke on Feb 3, 2024 19:55:07 GMT
Next home match, A loud rendition of the below will sum up our feelings perfectly. Who the fucking hell’s in charge. Who the fucking hell’s in charge. Who the fuck Who the fuck Who the fucking hell’s in charge? Sort of questions leadership at every level. Yep. Good plan. That will inspire the players 👏👏
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Post by matelot1996 on Feb 3, 2024 20:04:27 GMT
Next home match, A loud rendition of the below will sum up our feelings perfectly. Who the fucking hell’s in charge. Who the fucking hell’s in charge. Who the fuck Who the fuck Who the fucking hell’s in charge? Sort of questions leadership at every level. Yep. Good plan. That will inspire the players 👏👏 You obviously haven’t been paying attention. Not even a new manager, playing a game against the league leaders inspires this bunch. Any player with integrity on that pitch today should be weeping inside at their performance. Not one of them was at any point “Inspired.” embarrassing.
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Post by doctortheopolis on Feb 3, 2024 20:05:38 GMT
So if JC says enough is enough and fucks the coates money out of stoke where do you think we will actually end up....we would be fucked who the fuck would won't to buy stoke ffs Well here's an idea. They continue as owners but bring people in who actually know what they are doing to actually run the club. 100% this. I don't get the whole "who will buy the club then" bollocks. We know that if we put the club up for sale, the person who buys it probably won't be as wealthy as the Coates family. Thats not the point. Deep pockets and local mean fuck all if you are constantly spending money to correct the mistakes you keep making. It's madness. Strong business leaders appoint talented and capable people to run their business for them. They still get involved if the shit hits the fan as they want to protect their investment. They might appoint the odd crap person to run things for them as that's life but they don't keep doing it year after year. They learn from their mistakes. The ONLY common denominator of the last 8-9 years decline is John Coates. We can't keep denying that. Doesn't mean that they need running out of town but for the love of god, please grow a business brain and appoint someone competent to run your business for you. Don't let your coach bring his mate in and they sort it between them and you blindly sign the cheques.
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Post by anchorman on Feb 3, 2024 21:58:57 GMT
We need to face facts and the fact is we’re in the shit, we are a complete & utter mess and we have been for over 8 years now, almost a decade! The common denominator is John Coates. This demise has happened on his watch. His appointments, his philosophy, his culture and his responsibility. Everything we do turns to shit, he gets everything wrong, utterly & completely and it cannot continue. The issues at the club are deep rooted & we are clearly rotten to the core, spiralling out of control and heading at considerable speed toward the relegation trap door. I don’t doubt for one second that he loves Stoke City FC, is a passionate supporter and wants nothing but the very best for his club. BUT enough is enough. Either he takes a very long hard look in the mirror and has an honest conversation with himself or those closest to him step up to the plate and tell him a few home truth’s honestly & directly. The philosophy & the culture within any business is created at the top, the morals, ethics, energy comes from the guy captaining the ship and that’s JC. He doesn’t communicate at all with the fan base, he’s uninspiring, there doesn’t appear to be a clear plan or strategy and all of that is reflected in results on & off the pitch. It’s a shambles. I own & run a business and one of the most important lessons I have learnt is that it’s vitally important that you know your own strengths and more importantly you recognise your own weaknesses which is a strength in itself. John Coates needs to take a reality check, admit it’s not working under his stewardship and appoint a professional team to run this football club. I’ve said this repeatedly..I’m not suggesting the Coates family sell. They fund the project but John is Chairman in name only, sit back and let the professionals do their stuff. In the short term the only aim is survival. I feel incredible sorry for SS but I can’t deny that I’m worried. The fact that 80% of the squad was potentially up for sale is breathtakingly stupid, no wonder there is disharmony within the squad, we’ll done Ricky Martin & Co! However, has SS lost the dressing room already? I hope not. I like most Stoke fans are desperate for him to succeed, much like Nathan Jones but the similarities are there already unfortunately. I thought we needed a strong manager with a real presence about him who commanded respect from the players and everyone around him. I hope & pray that SS can turn this ship around but if not there’s only one way to go to save us in my opinion & that’s TP with Gally, Ryan & Glen Whelan. Strong character’s, with Stoke in their heart and a clear plan on how to grind out results to ensure survival & keep us up.
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Feb 3, 2024 21:59:48 GMT
If this was my millions being fucked away, with some prick doing interviews talking about pillars of success, another cunt not turning up for training, another bunch of fannies letting the opposing teams centre back dribble through them all, I'd be fucking furious, I'd be sacking the current technical director and I'd make him get lawyered up if he wants any compensation. I'd fucking have every one of these players in my office to account for themselves and their performance and read out our home results this season to them.
As for the scumbag that picks up his wages and treats everyone around the club with no respect, I'd withhold his wages and suspend him pending investigation for breaching his contract
I'd rather the owner write off a loss on a player like that and uphold standards.
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Post by silsdenstokie on Feb 3, 2024 22:08:31 GMT
Coates cannot afford another home defeat .. IF we loose to QPR We’re doomed and he’s gone ….. !!!! Never expected us to win today BUT to not even turn up is a disaster Wheres he going? He owns the club
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Post by cdlstoke on Feb 3, 2024 22:14:19 GMT
Coates cannot afford another home defeat .. IF we loose to QPR We’re doomed and he’s gone ….. !!!! Never expected us to win today BUT to not even turn up is a disaster Wheres he going? He owns the club Pitch protest brought Peter down in his first spell. He stepped down . You don’t have to be the majority share holder to be chairman.
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Feb 3, 2024 22:24:41 GMT
Wheres he going? He owns the club Pitch protest brought Peter down in his first spell. He stepped down . You don’t have to be the majority share holder to be chairman. Prey who do you suggest as chair , it’s clear it’s a role they see as family controlled understandably. It’s not about the chair it’s about executive football management. Martin and his appointments sadly including this manager who is clearly out of his depth which shouldn’t be a surprise .
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Post by whatsashig on Feb 3, 2024 22:26:09 GMT
Let’s all be alan sugar
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Post by silsdenstokie on Feb 3, 2024 22:30:58 GMT
Wheres he going? He owns the club Pitch protest brought Peter down in his first spell. He stepped down . You don’t have to be the majority share holder to be chairman. Not really All he did was swap position with his mate Humphreys (chairman to vice chairman) to take the heat off himself. He was still a (or the) major player in the running of the club. Unless they decide to sell they aint going anywhere
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Post by cdlstoke on Feb 3, 2024 22:32:55 GMT
Pitch protest brought Peter down in his first spell. He stepped down . You don’t have to be the majority share holder to be chairman. Not really All he did was swap position with his mate Humphreys (chairman to vice chairman) to take the heat off himself. He was still a (or the) major player in the running of the club. Unless they decide to sell they aint going anywhere Yes but they did sell up to the first buyers. I’m not saying I want them out ,I was just pointing out what happened back then.
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Post by silsdenstokie on Feb 3, 2024 22:44:04 GMT
Not really All he did was swap position with his mate Humphreys (chairman to vice chairman) to take the heat off himself. He was still a (or the) major player in the running of the club. Unless they decide to sell they aint going anywhere Yes but they did sell up to the first buyers. I’m not saying I want them out ,I was just pointing out what happened back then. Yeah I dont want them out cause as owners we could have far worse. However think they need to bring someone in to run the club on their behalf. The last 6 years have been unacceptable
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Post by danceswithclams on Feb 3, 2024 22:46:14 GMT
Yes but they did sell up to the first buyers. I’m not saying I want them out ,I was just pointing out what happened back then. Yeah I dont want them out cause as owners we could have far worse. However think they need to bring someone in to run the club on their behalf. The last 6 years have been unacceptable As owners we could also have far better. It's 50/50 really isn't it? That's a chance I'm willing to take and as such, I want them out.
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Post by cdlstoke on Feb 3, 2024 22:48:20 GMT
Yes but they did sell up to the first buyers. I’m not saying I want them out ,I was just pointing out what happened back then. Yeah I dont want them out cause as owners we could have far worse. However think they need to bring someone in to run the club on their behalf. The last 6 years have been unacceptable Spot on mate. They could afford pay the best as well because it doesn’t have to come under ffp, so can’t understand why they haven’t done it?
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Post by silsdenstokie on Feb 3, 2024 23:02:49 GMT
Yeah I dont want them out cause as owners we could have far worse. However think they need to bring someone in to run the club on their behalf. The last 6 years have been unacceptable As owners we could also have far better. It's 50/50 really isn't it? That's a chance I'm willing to take and as such, I want them out. Its a tough one. The thought of having a Sheff Wed/Blackburn/Reading type owner doesnt bear thinking about And the problem with a Foreign owner is even if it starts off well, once they lose interest things can deteriorate quickly. For all their faults, the Coates’ will always have the best interests of the club at heart, even if god forbid we did go down. Not sure its a risk Id be as willing to take. That said, things need to change with how the club is run
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