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Post by hughjarse on Jan 14, 2024 21:02:10 GMT
On the back of BJR's gripe about "taking one for the team" on the matchday thread. My personal gripe is players calling for a throw in when the liars now full well it's just come off some part of their body. It can't help the referee knowing that potentially all 22 players can't be trusted. I criticise refs (and some deserve it) but it’s a bloody hard job when there’s so much cheating going on. If I could go with a top 5 in no particular order it’d be 1- When players are cornered and under pressure going weakly down under the most minimum pressure. 2- playacting - the classic of rolling around like they’ll never walk again. 3 - keepers dropping onto the ball. 4 - Claiming for corners / throw ins knowing they’ve kicked it out. 5 - players crowding the ref trying to get players booked. 6 - players clutching their face when a flailing arm has caught them on the shoulder 7 - strikers leaving a trailing leg out at an absurd angle hoping for minimal contact in order to get a penalty
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Post by cobhamstokey on Jan 14, 2024 21:03:43 GMT
I criticise refs (and some deserve it) but it’s a bloody hard job when there’s so much cheating going on. If I could go with a top 5 in no particular order it’d be 1- When players are cornered and under pressure going weakly down under the most minimum pressure. 2- playacting - the classic of rolling around like they’ll never walk again. 3 - keepers dropping onto the ball. 4 - Claiming for corners / throw ins knowing they’ve kicked it out. 5 - players crowding the ref trying to get players booked. 6 - players clutching their face when a flailing arm has caught them on the shoulder 7 - strikers leaving a trailing leg out at an absurd angle hoping for minimal contact in order to get a penalty 7 It really winds me up when ex pros say they’re being clever. No they’re not they’re cheating.
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Jan 14, 2024 21:21:12 GMT
I'm sure he'll be honoured that The Oatcake's most intelligent poster decided to make a new thread about an opinion he had.
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Post by cvillestokie on Jan 15, 2024 2:57:45 GMT
“changed method of delivery” They could put small cannons all along the length of the pitch and when one ball goes out, another could be instantly fired in at random. Naah nothing quite that dramatic. I've seen roll ins and tap ins suggested, you could have some sort of exclusion zone coupled with the throw has to go backwards, 10 or 15 seconds to get the ball back in play or turn it over. Absolutely anything just to speed up getting the ball back into play in a matter of seconds instead of all the fucking about and pantomime we have to suffer for virtually every throw in. I actually like the countdown option. You could have some klaxon sounding once a player has the ball in the approximate position(no restart for changing thrower) of the throw going for say 15 seconds and if by then you haven't taken it it gets turned over same when a keeper takes possession of the ball 10/15 seconds to get rid of it or he gets a yellow card. Not sure what to do about faking injury tongue in cheek no mark on you and you have to go off for 2 minutes. Just anything to make the bastards play the game basically. I think 15 seconds is too long to be honest. It should be 6, same as it is for keepers holding onto the ball (that they never bother with). Quick throw-ins catch teams unawares as well. There’s plenty of stuff that they could do in football that they just don’t want to. Booking players for diving is never done, yet it’s just as bad to make the error in not booking them as it is to wrongly do it.
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Post by middleoftheboothen on Jan 15, 2024 3:48:52 GMT
People get on at the officials because they want their team to win. It's how it's always been and probably how it always will be. Whether it's counter productive or not if we get a wanker of a ref they are likely to know by the end of the game what the crowd think of them. Wow I bet they go home wounded and give you some soft decisions to make you be nicer. Never mind it gives me something to marvel at, herd behaviour. The thing is mate alot of the time the refs are influenced by the crowd though or by the reputation of a club in a game they are reffing in. When did I say they go home wounded? You come across as patronising in alot of your posts mate.
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Post by middleoftheboothen on Jan 15, 2024 3:51:50 GMT
People get on at the officials because they want their team to win. It's how it's always been and probably how it always will be. Whether it's counter productive or not if we get a wanker of a ref they are likely to know by the end of the game what the crowd think of them. You're correct but that doesn't make it right and it's really weird how it's unique to football. Doesn't happen in any other sport that I can think of. Imagine in the Olympics a group of long jumpers all swearing blind to the officials that they jumped further than they did, boxers getting aggressive with the referee or sprinters pretending someone else tripped them up and rolling around in fake agony. It's odd. I was referring to the crowd in my post mate. I agree about players getting on at the refs though they should be booked everytime and it would soon cut it out.
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Post by hotterpotter on Jan 15, 2024 8:04:27 GMT
6 - players clutching their face when a flailing arm has caught them on the shoulder 7 - strikers leaving a trailing leg out at an absurd angle hoping for minimal contact in order to get a penalty 7 It really winds me up when ex pros say they’re being clever. No they’re not they’re cheating. And along the same lines "He had the right to go down there"
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Post by idle on Jan 15, 2024 8:09:51 GMT
“changed method of delivery” They could put small cannons all along the length of the pitch and when one ball goes out, another could be instantly fired in at random. Naah nothing quite that dramatic. I've seen roll ins and tap ins suggested, you could have some sort of exclusion zone coupled with the throw has to go backwards, 10 or 15 seconds to get the ball back in play or turn it over. Absolutely anything just to speed up getting the ball back into play in a matter of seconds instead of all the fucking about and pantomime we have to suffer for virtually every throw in. I actually like the countdown option. You could have some klaxon sounding once a player has the ball in the approximate position(no restart for changing thrower) of the throw going for say 15 seconds and if by then you haven't taken it it gets turned over same when a keeper takes possession of the ball 10/15 seconds to get rid of it or he gets a yellow card. Not sure what to do about faking injury tongue in cheek no mark on you and you have to go off for 2 minutes. Just anything to make the bastards play the game basically. Then we would never have had the Delap throw-ins. Wenger would love that. So should the same apply to keeper's play out from goal? Corners? Free kicks? Penalties? Punish the cheaters, don't change the game. We've seen enough stupid changes to the game in the last years, we don't need more of it.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Jan 15, 2024 8:10:18 GMT
Another creeping into the game is where keepers hold the ball in there hands outside the area when they clear it. Never gets punished.
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Post by andystokey on Jan 15, 2024 8:17:17 GMT
What really fucks me off. More than anything in the world are throws ins starting where they went out and being thrown about 10-15 yards further forward It's so easily fixed too. Either the lino stands there like an offside or spray it with foam. It's encroachment no different than a free kick. When it's been kicked out close to the corner flag it's particularly difficult to defend and the team throwing in should stay hemmed in. One more from me is when the keeper time wastes by choosing to take goal kicks on the opposite side of the 6yd box.
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Post by lawrieleslie on Jan 15, 2024 8:24:04 GMT
One of the most blatant cheating events I ever saw involved the whole Colombian team in a World Cup game few years ago. Colombia were defending and the ball went out for a goal kick. As the opposition were retreating to face the goal kick the Colombian keeper rolled the ball towards the corner flag, in the meantime the Colombian team set up to defend a corner. In the confusion the opposition looked to the ref for some guidance and both benches were arguing with each other. The ref summoned the Colombian captain to explain he had signalled a goal kick not a corner to the opposition. So the keeper sauntered over to retrieve the ball from the corner flag and eventually, after several minutes of confusion time wasting, play resumed.
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Post by y_oh_y_delilah on Jan 15, 2024 9:09:29 GMT
Approximately the same level of scumbagedness in every league imho. For what it’s worth my personal pet hate is that the ball placed for almost every corner is outside the quadrant. Makes my blood boil dos that. They don’t, the assistant ref always checks that. It only needs the outside of the ball to be in line with the white line. That said, I’m not sure what the advantage is of doing so I’m fully aware of the actual laws thank you but I think most people will know what I’m talking about.
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Post by baconburger on Jan 15, 2024 10:34:05 GMT
Naah nothing quite that dramatic. I've seen roll ins and tap ins suggested, you could have some sort of exclusion zone coupled with the throw has to go backwards, 10 or 15 seconds to get the ball back in play or turn it over. Absolutely anything just to speed up getting the ball back into play in a matter of seconds instead of all the fucking about and pantomime we have to suffer for virtually every throw in. I actually like the countdown option. You could have some klaxon sounding once a player has the ball in the approximate position(no restart for changing thrower) of the throw going for say 15 seconds and if by then you haven't taken it it gets turned over same when a keeper takes possession of the ball 10/15 seconds to get rid of it or he gets a yellow card. Not sure what to do about faking injury tongue in cheek no mark on you and you have to go off for 2 minutes. Just anything to make the bastards play the game basically. Then we would never have had the Delap throw-ins. Wenger would love that. So should the same apply to keeper's play out from goal? Corners? Free kicks? Penalties? Punish the cheaters, don't change the game. We've seen enough stupid changes to the game in the last years, we don't need more of it. I don’t think we have seen anywhere near enough changes football is very slow to bring in changes in attempt to cut down on undesirable features of the game. Much slower than other sports have been. As for your questions yes keepers do need to be made to get the ball back in play quickly. Corners, free kicks and penalties is a little more difficult because imo referees are the biggest cause of delay to these but every effort should be made to cut down delays in restarting the game to an absolute minimum for instance stopping the corner being taken to deal with jostling has it ever achieved a single thing. Allow the corner to be taken and give whatever decision they deem applicable. There should be no reasonable suggestion that is not considered to provide more football within the 90+ minutes and less pantomime. I’m not aware of any stupid changes and don’t see why fear of that should be a factor, if you make a change and don’t like how it pans out you can simply change it back or to something else for the next season. Sorry but football has been ruled by complacency due to it’s popularity and resistant to changes to attempt to improve the product for far too long. Just because something is popular doesn’t mean it can’t be better and even more popular.
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Post by baconburger on Jan 15, 2024 10:38:01 GMT
They don’t, the assistant ref always checks that. It only needs the outside of the ball to be in line with the white line. That said, I’m not sure what the advantage is of doing so I’m fully aware of the actual laws thank you but I think most people will know what I’m talking about. I think what you really mean is that a lot of other people like yourself are affected by irrational mob mentality when they attend a football match. A majority I really hope not.
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Post by baconburger on Jan 15, 2024 10:45:28 GMT
What really fucks me off. More than anything in the world are throws ins starting where they went out and being thrown about 10-15 yards further forward It's so easily fixed too. Either the lino stands there like an offside or spray it with foam. It's encroachment no different than a free kick. When it's been kicked out close to the corner flag it's particularly difficult to defend and the team throwing in should stay hemmed in. One more from me is when the keeper time wastes by choosing to take goal kicks on the opposite side of the 6yd box. I don’t get why you want to further disadvantage the team taking the throw in. They didn’t put the ball out of play and they already have 1 less player able to receive the ball. I think the change should make it easier for that team to retain possession as that seems just and making it easier for them to retain possession will get the actual game restarted much much quicker. No argument on keepers they waste so much time, they really do need getting a grip of.
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Post by noustie on Jan 15, 2024 10:49:25 GMT
It's so easily fixed too. Either the lino stands there like an offside or spray it with foam. It's encroachment no different than a free kick. When it's been kicked out close to the corner flag it's particularly difficult to defend and the team throwing in should stay hemmed in. One more from me is when the keeper time wastes by choosing to take goal kicks on the opposite side of the 6yd box. I don’t get why you want to further disadvantage the team taking the throw in. They didn’t put the ball out of play and they already have 1 less player able to receive the ball. I think the change should make it easier for that team to retain possession as that seems just and making it easier for them to retain possession will get the actual game restarted much much quicker. No argument on keepers they waste so much time, they really do need getting a grip of. It'll never happen but imagine like a 50/20 rule that rugby has - the ball is tippy tapped around in midfield boring as fuck then a centre back gets it and hoofs it towards the corner for an attacking throw in.
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Post by noustie on Jan 15, 2024 10:52:22 GMT
The sad bit is you see this shit replicated throughout grass roots football. It's not so bad in the girls but in the lads they're rolling about all over the place as soon as they're tackled.
Was playing 'old bastards that should know better' football at the weekend and the nick off our defender was clearly audible with the ball spinning differently after but he argued until he was blue in the face it wasn't a corner. The other side couldn't be arsed and just gave us the goal kick but its just a knock about ffs.
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Post by andystokey on Jan 15, 2024 10:55:50 GMT
It's so easily fixed too. Either the lino stands there like an offside or spray it with foam. It's encroachment no different than a free kick. When it's been kicked out close to the corner flag it's particularly difficult to defend and the team throwing in should stay hemmed in. One more from me is when the keeper time wastes by choosing to take goal kicks on the opposite side of the 6yd box. I don’t get why you want to further disadvantage the team taking the throw in. They didn’t put the ball out of play and they already have 1 less player able to receive the ball. I think the change should make it easier for that team to retain possession as that seems just and making it easier for them to retain possession will get the actual game restarted much much quicker. No argument on keepers they waste so much time, they really do need getting a grip of. The law says the throw in should be taken from where it went out. Change the law by all means but enforce the laws that are already made, that is the referees job.
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Post by baconburger on Jan 15, 2024 10:56:39 GMT
I don’t get why you want to further disadvantage the team taking the throw in. They didn’t put the ball out of play and they already have 1 less player able to receive the ball. I think the change should make it easier for that team to retain possession as that seems just and making it easier for them to retain possession will get the actual game restarted much much quicker. No argument on keepers they waste so much time, they really do need getting a grip of. It'll never happen but imagine like a 50/20 rule that rugby has - the ball is tippy tapped around in midfield boring as fuck then a centre back gets it and hoofs it towards the corner for an attacking throw in. I’m a bit stuck because I’ve no idea what a 50/20 rule is. I don’t like rugby. What I have noted about rugby is how it has embraced change. In the little I’ve seen of it I like how they’ve used technology and I really like how it’s officiated with officials miked up and explaining themselves. I also love the concept of bonus points for scoring x amount of tries or more. Football take note.
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Post by terrorofturfmoor on Jan 15, 2024 11:29:33 GMT
The one that pisses me off... is when a player has the ball (most likely in his own half) and is going nowhere, and he has an opposition player behind him.... So he goes down at the faintest of touches... And the Ref blows for a foul EVERY SINGLE TIME!!!
I'd love a Ref to see it for what it is, just for once, and play on!!!
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Post by baconburger on Jan 15, 2024 11:35:50 GMT
The one that pisses me off... is when a player has the ball (most likely in his own half) and is going nowhere, and he has an opposition player behind him.... So he goes down at the faintest of touches... And the Ref blows for a foul EVERY SINGLE TIME!!! I'd love a Ref to see it for what it is, just for once, and play on!!! tbf I think our ref on Saturday was trying to ignore them but they’re all just so fucking dramatic. The amount of times they go down holding their face and get up without a single mark on them really pisses me off. I’d love there to be some course of action available against them.
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Post by Vadiation_Ribe on Jan 15, 2024 11:37:44 GMT
Had thirty years of it mate. It goes in one ear and out of the other😃 Well as long as the ball doesn't touch any part of their body...
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Post by idle on Jan 15, 2024 11:58:14 GMT
Then we would never have had the Delap throw-ins. Wenger would love that. So should the same apply to keeper's play out from goal? Corners? Free kicks? Penalties? Punish the cheaters, don't change the game. We've seen enough stupid changes to the game in the last years, we don't need more of it. I don’t think we have seen anywhere near enough changes football is very slow to bring in changes in attempt to cut down on undesirable features of the game. Much slower than other sports have been. As for your questions yes keepers do need to be made to get the ball back in play quickly. Corners, free kicks and penalties is a little more difficult because imo referees are the biggest cause of delay to these but every effort should be made to cut down delays in restarting the game to an absolute minimum for instance stopping the corner being taken to deal with jostling has it ever achieved a single thing. Allow the corner to be taken and give whatever decision they deem applicable. There should be no reasonable suggestion that is not considered to provide more football within the 90+ minutes and less pantomime. I’m not aware of any stupid changes and don’t see why fear of that should be a factor, if you make a change and don’t like how it pans out you can simply change it back or to something else for the next season. Sorry but football has been ruled by complacency due to it’s popularity and resistant to changes to attempt to improve the product for far too long. Just because something is popular doesn’t mean it can’t be better and even more popular. If players dally give them a yellow. If a players stops the opposing team from taking a corner/throw in/free kick give them a yellow. If they do it again, give them another and send them off. They know what they're doing, they just do it cause they get away with it, especially if you're famous/playing for a big club. I agree with you on the jostling at corners. They're elite players, not under-12s FFS! Wierd how it never seems to happen on free kicks. This is some kind of culture that has been developing over years. If the ref needs to talk to the players this needs to be explained on the first corner of the game, not in the 85th minute. But the big problem here is consistency. I've heard some teams analyze the next ref to see what they can get away with! The changes I'm talking about is the "new" handball rule, and the new offside rule (to make VAR easier), the "use of excessive force" in tackling, the number of subs allowed since covid, the only needing one player to take the kick-off (what, they're too dumb to know their position if they must start in the circle or something?). Some of these changes makes the game worse, some are uneeded. The only two changes I agree with are the second offside rule and the pass back to the goalie rules, but those are already ancient.
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Post by noustie on Jan 15, 2024 12:39:46 GMT
It'll never happen but imagine like a 50/20 rule that rugby has - the ball is tippy tapped around in midfield boring as fuck then a centre back gets it and hoofs it towards the corner for an attacking throw in. I’m a bit stuck because I’ve no idea what a 50/20 rule is. I don’t like rugby. What I have noted about rugby is how it has embraced change. In the little I’ve seen of it I like how they’ve used technology and I really like how it’s officiated with officials miked up and explaining themselves. I also love the concept of bonus points for scoring x amount of tries or more. Football take note. I'm crap at rugby too so could be havering bollocks but think it was introduced to reduce scrums, improve counter attack options and generally just speed the game up. Essentially if the attacking team are in their own half they can bunt it out so long as it bounces at least once and goes out within 22 yards of the oppositions try line then you get the throw in rather than the opposition. In football it would be like when the game is boring as fuck with everyone playing passing drills in the center of the pitch then the CB thinking 'fuck this' and hoofing it out between the touch line and edge of the 18 yard box and his team got the throw - would have been ace in the Delap days but Wenger will never go for it. Think the last major changes have been VAR and the pass back rule - the fundamentals haven't changed in over a century despite the build and stamina of the players changing inexorably.
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Post by cvillestokie on Jan 15, 2024 12:41:08 GMT
What really fucks me off. More than anything in the world are throws ins starting where they went out and being thrown about 10-15 yards further forward It's so easily fixed too. Either the lino stands there like an offside or spray it with foam. It's encroachment no different than a free kick. When it's been kicked out close to the corner flag it's particularly difficult to defend and the team throwing in should stay hemmed in. One more from me is when the keeper time wastes by choosing to take goal kicks on the opposite side of the 6yd box. The foam makes the most sense to me. You could get the ball boys to do that. It’s fairly easy for the ref to check that they are doing it properly. As for much of the rest, we can moan about rule changes all we like but they’ll never get enforced because the refs are weak.
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Post by spitthedog on Jan 15, 2024 13:38:19 GMT
Every foul now, even a slight touch, is met with an agonised yell and a quick look at the ref to make sure he's heard it to try and get an opponent booked or sent off. 95% of the time the "injured " player is sprinting off with or after the ball within seconds! When did throwing both arms in the air start?.....as if victims of some kind of grave injustice in life, when its only a throw in!
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Jan 15, 2024 13:45:15 GMT
Can this be classed as cheating because of the rules? If a,player is injured because of a foul tackle,why should only the fouled player have to go off for 30 secs,why not the player who committed the foul have to go off too?
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Post by baconburger on Jan 15, 2024 14:23:15 GMT
I’m a bit stuck because I’ve no idea what a 50/20 rule is. I don’t like rugby. What I have noted about rugby is how it has embraced change. In the little I’ve seen of it I like how they’ve used technology and I really like how it’s officiated with officials miked up and explaining themselves. I also love the concept of bonus points for scoring x amount of tries or more. Football take note. I'm crap at rugby too so could be havering bollocks but think it was introduced to reduce scrums, improve counter attack options and generally just speed the game up. Essentially if the attacking team are in their own half they can bunt it out so long as it bounces at least once and goes out within 22 yards of the oppositions try line then you get the throw in rather than the opposition. In football it would be like when the game is boring as fuck with everyone playing passing drills in the center of the pitch then the CB thinking 'fuck this' and hoofing it out between the touch line and edge of the 18 yard box and his team got the throw - would have been ace in the Delap days but Wenger will never go for it. Think the last major changes have been VAR and the pass back rule - the fundamentals haven't changed in over a century despite the build and stamina of the players changing inexorably. I'm on Wenger's side of the argument. I don't think players should be given time to set up a throw in, I want it back in play within seconds. And keepers well I'd have someone standing next to the goal with a gun and shoot them the amount of time they spend fucking about stopping the game.
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Post by cvillestokie on Jan 15, 2024 14:27:10 GMT
I'm crap at rugby too so could be havering bollocks but think it was introduced to reduce scrums, improve counter attack options and generally just speed the game up. Essentially if the attacking team are in their own half they can bunt it out so long as it bounces at least once and goes out within 22 yards of the oppositions try line then you get the throw in rather than the opposition. In football it would be like when the game is boring as fuck with everyone playing passing drills in the center of the pitch then the CB thinking 'fuck this' and hoofing it out between the touch line and edge of the 18 yard box and his team got the throw - would have been ace in the Delap days but Wenger will never go for it. Think the last major changes have been VAR and the pass back rule - the fundamentals haven't changed in over a century despite the build and stamina of the players changing inexorably. I'm on Wenger's side of the argument. I don't think players should be given time to set up a throw in, I want it back in play within seconds. And keepers well I'd have someone standing next to the goal with a gun and shoot them the amount of time they spend fucking about stopping the game. Same with corners and free kicks? Why should fans have to sit and wait for two centre backs to casually jog half the pitch. Surely, it should be taken quickly or a goal kick should be awarded.
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Post by baconburger on Jan 15, 2024 14:47:14 GMT
I'm on Wenger's side of the argument. I don't think players should be given time to set up a throw in, I want it back in play within seconds. And keepers well I'd have someone standing next to the goal with a gun and shoot them the amount of time they spend fucking about stopping the game. Same with corners and free kicks? Why should fans have to sit and wait for two centre backs to casually jog half the pitch. Surely, it should be taken quickly or a goal kick should be awarded. Already said I'm not as sure about that as I think referee's are more to blame than players in those situations. They waste god only knows how much time telling players off for jostling and I've never seen them stop doing it because they've been told off. Just let the kick get taken and penalise any infringement they deem appropriate. Perhaps they could allow say 30 seconds to set them up so those CB's would have to shift their arses but I wouldn't want them having that long to take a throw in 15 seconds max. Anything that makes them hurry up and get the ball in play for longer I'm in favour of being tried out. Game management should be limited to positive and negative substitutions and playing keep ball all the rest of it is just cheating fans.
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