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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Sept 9, 2023 14:07:53 GMT
"the move to the Britannia ripped the heart out of many supporters in the 90's.. "
This! 😌
I wonder how fans who never knew it feel about our current home? There's two generations who have only known 'monolithic monstrosities councils call homes'!
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Post by silsdenstokie on Sept 9, 2023 14:28:55 GMT
When I see what theyve done at the Hawthorns and to a lesser degree, Turf Moor, it depresses me a little bit
Preston another good example
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2023 14:59:36 GMT
Most modern stadiums are souless, the old grounds like the Victoria ground had a soul, maybe because they had a history that these new stadiums don't have, yet. Stoke fans at the Vic, we're following in the footsteps of their fathers, grandfathers etc. These new ones will need Donkeys years to have that, if they are still standing after 100 years. It's not just the age. It's the architecture. Old stadiums are all unique. They developed organically, often to the beat of the drum of the architecture of the surrounding neighbourhood. If you are at Bramhall Lane or Hillsborough or Goodison, you couldn't be anywhere else. You could photograph a small section of those grounds and instantly identify it, even in black and white. Our ground is just a copy and paste of a bunch of other grounds built by middling sized clubs around that era. A critique levelled at us is that we're a bland club. And it's because the most pivotal aspect of our identity was bulldozed a quarter of a century ago. There's no going back in time, but there is a future where we can make the brit something we can all be proud of. It was built on the cheap and it shows. Priority number 1 for me would be to rebuild the boothen end. Turn it into an iconic home end with standing areas, a unique brick facade that is visible from the A50 (I like the idea of bottle ovens either side of the facade as castle turrets) and top class facilities for the supporters. I'm no longer a boothen ender but the last time I was in there, navigating the concourse was a fucking joke. It surely must be at the limits of H&S. There's also the opportunity to develop the club shop/office areas. Maybe redevelop the south stand and build a new superstore, add a club museum. And the Stan Matthews statue should factor in somewhere. Maybe bring it closer to the boothen end in that new development? I get that it's situated where it is because it looks towards the old ground, but it could do that whilst not being in a place where supporters rarely visit. It should be in a place where new generations will see it regularly; which is especially important as the generations who actually saw him play pass on. The current placement isn't fit for a player who is so enshrined in our club history.
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Post by suck_the_mop. on Sept 9, 2023 15:06:43 GMT
All about the £££ isn't it, if Coates had the money he has now back then it probably would of been a rebuild probably down on the training pitches for example, but if we hadn't of moved he probably would of never been able to sell to the icelandics which in turn wouldn't of allowed him/denise to start bet365 and ultimately buy the club back, all swings and roundabouts but there is no way they would of had the £££ to do anything decent with the vic time caught up with it very quickly from being a decent ground to a run down bit of a dump, loved the place though absolutely loved it.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2023 15:11:35 GMT
"the move to the Britannia ripped the heart out of many supporters in the 90's.. " This! 😌 I wonder how fans who never knew it feel about our current home? There's two generations who have only known 'monolithic monstrosities councils call homes'! I was just under 8 when we left. Went to the vic many times, including the last league game against west brom. I never appreciated it because I was too young; and actually have some guilt about attending the last game and potentially depriving a ticket to someone who knew what it meant. I was there with my nan and I'm sure whilst I will have been bored shitless and eager to leave as soon as possible, whereas for her it will have been a deeply emotional experience. Nowadays I'm angry at the response to the taylor report. Terraces were a convenient scapegoat for the true cause of hillsborough; cages, pens and nazi police. But terraces took the blame (despite the taylor report explicitly stating that terraces weren't fundamentally unsafe) and the bulldozers levelled cathedrals. I feel robbed of my cultural inheritance.
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Post by danceswithclams on Sept 9, 2023 15:30:38 GMT
It's gone and it's not coming back.
It could be a magical place.
It could also be a stark desolate place.
Its redevelopment would have been a right fucking mess.
Its replacement really isn't that bad.
It's part of our rich history and won't be forgotten in a hurry.
It's not healthy to continually wallow in the past.
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Post by misterj on Sept 10, 2023 7:39:18 GMT
I think if we’d have known the transport issues before the move to the new stadium then we’d definitely have chosen to stay put. I’m fairly sure the move was sold to us as: there’s going to be a dedicated train station and lots & lots of parking spaces, but that didn’t pan out did it? Just last week they’ve started issuing fines to people parking at or near the Sainsbury’s warehouse at Sideway plus some firms on Stanley Matthews Way are not offering match day parking anymore? Meanwhile the club’s info, although much improved lately, still doesn’t really give up to date tips on parking options. As others have said, we could have developed one grandstand at a time (Wolves, Forest, Villa, Preston, Liverpool etc managed it) and retained our identity plus the economic boost to the town re:pubs, cafes and shops ……. Ah well ……
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Post by lordb on Sept 10, 2023 7:45:49 GMT
I think if we’d have known the transport issues before the move to the new stadium then we’d definitely have chosen to stay put. I’m fairly sure the move was sold to us as: there’s going to be a dedicated train station and lots & lots of parking spaces, but that didn’t pan out did it? Just last week they’ve started issuing fines to people parking at or near the Sainsbury’s warehouse at Sideway plus some firms on Stanley Matthews Way are not offering match day parking anymore? Meanwhile the club’s info, although much improved lately, still doesn’t really give up to date tips on parking options. As others have said, we could have developed one grandstand at a time (Wolves, Forest, Villa, Preston, Liverpool etc managed it) and retained our identity plus the economic boost to the town re:pubs, cafes and shops ……. Ah well …… There are lots of car parking spaces, just poor access to them They never stated there would be a station, hinted it might be a possibility but no more than that I think many fans have completely underestimated just how bleak the option of staying was
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Post by metalhead on Sept 10, 2023 8:19:21 GMT
"the move to the Britannia ripped the heart out of many supporters in the 90's.. " This! 😌 I wonder how fans who never knew it feel about our current home? There's two generations who have only known 'monolithic monstrosities councils call homes'! I was just under 8 when we left. Went to the vic many times, including the last league game against west brom. I never appreciated it because I was too young; and actually have some guilt about attending the last game and potentially depriving a ticket to someone who knew what it meant. I was there with my nan and I'm sure whilst I will have been bored shitless and eager to leave as soon as possible, whereas for her it will have been a deeply emotional experience. Nowadays I'm angry at the response to the taylor report. Terraces were a convenient scapegoat for the true cause of hillsborough; cages, pens and nazi police. But terraces took the blame (despite the taylor report explicitly stating that terraces weren't fundamentally unsafe) and the bulldozers levelled cathedrals. I feel robbed of my cultural inheritance. Great post.
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Post by metalhead on Sept 10, 2023 8:19:56 GMT
It's gone and it's not coming back. It could be a magical place. It could also be a stark desolate place. Its redevelopment would have been a right fucking mess. It's replacement really isn't that bad. It's part of our rich history and won't be forgotten in a hurry. It's not healthy to continually wallwow in the past. Wallowing or just reflecting on mistakes?
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Post by metalhead on Sept 10, 2023 8:22:23 GMT
I think if we’d have known the transport issues before the move to the new stadium then we’d definitely have chosen to stay put. I’m fairly sure the move was sold to us as: there’s going to be a dedicated train station and lots & lots of parking spaces, but that didn’t pan out did it? Just last week they’ve started issuing fines to people parking at or near the Sainsbury’s warehouse at Sideway plus some firms on Stanley Matthews Way are not offering match day parking anymore? Meanwhile the club’s info, although much improved lately, still doesn’t really give up to date tips on parking options. As others have said, we could have developed one grandstand at a time (Wolves, Forest, Villa, Preston, Liverpool etc managed it) and retained our identity plus the economic boost to the town re:pubs, cafes and shops ……. Ah well …… There are lots of car parking spaces, just poor access to them They never stated there would be a station, hinted it might be a possibility but no more than that I think many fans have completely underestimated just how bleak the option of staying was I really disagree with this. Man made it, man can make it again. The ground required investment and perhaps the management weren't the right people to achieve that at the time. To say that the Vic was basically doomed is just shit. Important decisions were made by the wrong people.... Mainly Jez Moxey. The parking situation at the moment is an absolute shit show. The ground is really unlikable. We ducked up.
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Post by LGH87 on Sept 10, 2023 9:23:46 GMT
It's gone and it's not coming back. It could be a magical place. It could also be a stark desolate place. Its redevelopment would have been a right fucking mess. It's replacement really isn't that bad. It's part of our rich history and won't be forgotten in a hurry. It's not healthy to continually wallwow in the past. Absolutely this, the tone of this thread is an accurate reflection of the issues we face in this city
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Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 10, 2023 9:25:51 GMT
It's gone and it's not coming back. It could be a magical place. It could also be a stark desolate place. Its redevelopment would have been a right fucking mess. It's replacement really isn't that bad. It's part of our rich history and won't be forgotten in a hurry. It's not healthy to continually wallwow in the past. Wallowing or just reflecting on mistakes? What mistakes?
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Post by metalhead on Sept 10, 2023 9:39:34 GMT
Wallowing or just reflecting on mistakes? What mistakes? All of the ones that have resulted in the present day situation?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 10, 2023 9:49:25 GMT
All of the ones that have resulted in the present day situation? The Brit? I like the Brit. It’s fine.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 10, 2023 9:58:45 GMT
And to bring to a head the bollocks “oh you’re just being a contrarian” shit.
I went to two games at the Victoria Ground.
A first team one that was my first ever game and was ok.
And a reserve game that was in thick fog and I saw none of it.
So from personal memories it means very little to me.
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Post by lordb on Sept 10, 2023 10:26:17 GMT
There are lots of car parking spaces, just poor access to them They never stated there would be a station, hinted it might be a possibility but no more than that I think many fans have completely underestimated just how bleak the option of staying was I really disagree with this. Man made it, man can make it again. The ground required investment and perhaps the management weren't the right people to achieve that at the time. To say that the Vic was basically doomed is just shit. Important decisions were made by the wrong people.... Mainly Jez Moxey. The parking situation at the moment is an absolute shit show. The ground is really unlikable. We ducked up. 'perhaps' Have you typed that with a straight face? If some other people had been in charge then absolutely a sensible gradual re development to a smart 25000 seat stadium, with very limited parking by the way, would have been quite possiblr The idea that Moxey with Coates /Humphries non budget would have resulted in anything other than a horrible super cheap and nasty 22000 capacity ground with two stands untouched other than seats bolted onto existing terracing is absurd Only one stand was fit for purpose, one proper new stand would have been built
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Post by Davef on Sept 10, 2023 10:28:01 GMT
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Post by metalhead on Sept 10, 2023 10:37:13 GMT
All of the ones that have resulted in the present day situation? The Brit? I like the Brit. It’s fine. Fair enough. Opinions eh?
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Post by JoeinOz on Sept 10, 2023 10:39:42 GMT
Bet 365 stadium is home. It has been for many years. And that's that.
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Post by johnnysoul60 on Sept 10, 2023 10:41:19 GMT
It was special to me, first going as a boy in the late 60's and so many memories, also it was part of the community with pubs nearby which added to the atmosphere. I can agree that the way the club was run back then would have only resulted in a patchwork job but certainly by now it could have been a fine ground like many others. We are where we are now, just about the worst location for a ground possible but have to make the most of it. 🙄
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Post by metalhead on Sept 10, 2023 11:07:27 GMT
I really disagree with this. Man made it, man can make it again. The ground required investment and perhaps the management weren't the right people to achieve that at the time. To say that the Vic was basically doomed is just shit. Important decisions were made by the wrong people.... Mainly Jez Moxey. The parking situation at the moment is an absolute shit show. The ground is really unlikable. We ducked up. 'perhaps' Have you typed that with a straight face? If some other people had been in charge then absolutely a sensible gradual re development to a smart 25000 seat stadium, with very limited parking by the way, would have been quite possiblr The idea that Moxey with Coates /Humphries non budget would have resulted in anything other than a horrible super cheap and nasty 22000 capacity ground with two stands untouched other than seats bolted onto existing terracing is absurd Only one stand was fit for purpose, one proper new stand would have been built Ok fair shout. You are possibly right about limited parking (you would know better than me, I was a kid) but there are decent travel options to that part of Stoke. If I take a train to Stoke station, I'm still nowhere near the football. I then either take a taxi or a bus. Same to get home. Not great. I've been driving more recently and that's also shit. It just feels like all of the supposed benefits of the stadium aren't really there. That's my overall feeling.
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Post by metalhead on Sept 10, 2023 11:08:30 GMT
Bet 365 stadium is home. It has been for many years. And that's that. Sure. Doesn't hurt that people want to enjoy some memories of the past and discuss whether this home was the one we should have bought? I still have regrets about houses. This is the same surely?
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Post by JoeinOz on Sept 10, 2023 11:22:34 GMT
Bet 365 stadium is home. It has been for many years. And that's that. Sure. Doesn't hurt that people want to enjoy some memories of the past and discuss whether this home was the one we should have bought? I still have regrets about houses. This is the same surely? Enjoying the memories all fine, although history gets rewritten. But sifting through the forensics of a decision took 28 years ago, that can't be reversed, becomes nullification by nostalgia.
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Post by metalhead on Sept 10, 2023 12:21:08 GMT
Sure. Doesn't hurt that people want to enjoy some memories of the past and discuss whether this home was the one we should have bought? I still have regrets about houses. This is the same surely? Enjoying the memories all fine, although history gets rewritten. But sifting through the forensics of a decision took 28 years ago, that can't be reversed, becomes nullification by nostalgia. I don't agree. We are doomed to make the same mistakes if we don't learn from the past, surely?
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Post by JoeinOz on Sept 10, 2023 12:25:02 GMT
Enjoying the memories all fine, although history gets rewritten. But sifting through the forensics of a decision took 28 years ago, that can't be reversed, becomes nullification by nostalgia. I don't agree. We are doomed to make the same mistakes if we don't learn from the past, surely? Starting point in this context is if you consider the move to be a mistake. 😁
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Post by metalhead on Sept 10, 2023 13:14:39 GMT
I don't agree. We are doomed to make the same mistakes if we don't learn from the past, surely? Starting point in this context is if you consider the move to be a mistake. 😁 That's true and as I said, it's an opinion. Yours is different. I think we could and should have persevered and I will be saying that until the day I snuff it or until the Britannia/bet365 becomes a more welcoming home. A train station would go a long way.
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Post by JoeinOz on Sept 10, 2023 13:44:09 GMT
Starting point in this context is if you consider the move to be a mistake. 😁 That's true and as I said, it's an opinion. Yours is different. I think we could and should have persevered and I will be saying that until the day I snuff it or until the Britannia/bet365 becomes a more welcoming home. A train station would go a long way. What can we learn from it all? I'm sure it'll not be an issue again in my lifetime
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Post by orfyboothen on Sept 10, 2023 13:59:21 GMT
For the spectacle of it all... midweek reserve games in the 90s were the best for me. A chance to drink it all in. I could have literally stared at the 4 stands for hours. All distinctive and charming in their own way. The setting, the story's main character.
No, of course the atmosphere wasn't always good.
But even on the quiet days, the background noise was tangibly a presence due to the fact we could stand next to big groups of family members/ mates/ strangers we clicked with. An organic coming together. A place in which offered something different for everyone.
Irreplaceable.
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Post by danceswithclams on Sept 10, 2023 14:34:28 GMT
A train station would go a long way. Would it? I'd imagine it'd go from the ground to Stoke Station and back.
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