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Post by march4 on May 22, 2023 16:43:42 GMT
The best two managers in our history didn’t have an outstanding playing career. Hughes would be mortified to hear that 😉😁 Don’t be silly. I was thinking of Tom Mather!
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Post by nott1 on May 22, 2023 17:05:44 GMT
Ex-players from the highest possible level seem to make the best managers these days - esp any who have been close to the top clubs at home or abroad - I can imagine the howls of derision on here had Kompany been touted for us at any point........ Lampard, Gerrard? Would you want either? Failures!
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2023 17:20:08 GMT
It's interesting how this thread meanders off to talk about supercomputers , DoFs , data analysis.
That's not surprising in that it is commonly accepted to be the way football is going.
But for all that ,this is relevant, the most impressive manager, for what he achieved out on the pitch in the championship last season, was Neil Warnock .
Warnock is about as old school and as English as you can get in 2023. But his no nonsense ( admittedly old school) approach of letting the players know, Warnock style, that he's not going to tolerate any negative body language or attitude from them for even one minute of the game. That the players will give everything to defend their goal and win the ball back ( fair means or a bit of bending of the rules ) ,that they will show a desire to win the game regardless of who scores first, was actually very successful.
For all your computer analysis and data analysis, at the end of the day, unless your lads want it more than the other lot , you are winning nowt and going nowhere ( except perhaps relegated)
What Warnock does is as much , if not more important, in terms of what AN HAS to bring to match day than any amount of stats and analysis.
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Post by hoppo96 on May 22, 2023 20:21:46 GMT
It's interesting how this thread meanders off to talk about supercomputers , DoFs , data analysis. That's not surprising in that it is commonly accepted to be the way football is going. But for all that ,this is relevant, the most impressive manager, for what he achieved out on the pitch in the championship last season, was Neil Warnock . Warnock is about as old school and as English as you can get in 2023. But his no nonsense ( admittedly old school) approach of letting the players know, Warnock style, that he's not going to tolerate any negative body language or attitude from them for even one minute of the game. That the players will give everything to defend their goal and win the ball back ( fair means or a bit of bending of the rules ) ,that they will show a desire to win the game regardless of who scores first, was actually very successful. For all your computer analysis and data analysis, at the end of the day, unless your lads want it more than the other lot , you are winning nowt and going nowhere ( except perhaps relegated) What Warnock does is as much , if not more important, in terms of what AN HAS to bring to match day than any amount of stats and analysis. but this is often only a short-term fix, there's a reason he isn't thought of when clubs are looking for managers at the start of the season. Clubs can pull together, have a mentality to scrape out results. If Stoke for e.g. went into this summer with a "let's focus on a no-nonsense attitude and passion" we'd fail massively.
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on May 22, 2023 20:22:16 GMT
It's interesting how this thread meanders off to talk about supercomputers , DoFs , data analysis. That's not surprising in that it is commonly accepted to be the way football is going. But for all that ,this is relevant, the most impressive manager, for what he achieved out on the pitch in the championship last season, was Neil Warnock . Warnock is about as old school and as English as you can get in 2023. But his no nonsense ( admittedly old school) approach of letting the players know, Warnock style, that he's not going to tolerate any negative body language or attitude from them for even one minute of the game. That the players will give everything to defend their goal and win the ball back ( fair means or a bit of bending of the rules ) ,that they will show a desire to win the game regardless of who scores first, was actually very successful. For all your computer analysis and data analysis, at the end of the day, unless your lads want it more than the other lot , you are winning nowt and going nowhere ( except perhaps relegated) What Warnock does is as much , if not more important, in terms of what AN HAS to bring to match day than any amount of stats and analysis. Think the point of distinction is Warnock is a great motivator and clearly had an impact on the extant squad at Huddersfield. Building his own squad in a difficult financial environment (Huddersfield narrowly avoided administration which would have doomed them) is a more demanding task long term in an increasingly difficult market. Stats and recruitment data matter way more when you’re building your squad for the duration and to challenge effectively, which is something Luton and Coventry have done over many many years, the efforts of Robins for instance surpasses. what Warnock has achieved this season as he’s shown both sides of the coin. Mark Robins laid down the law after we twatted Coventry and they’re on a 9 game unbeaten run that’s taken them to Wembley. I don’t see it as an either/or scenario, if you sign your players using the best available tools at your disposal, it makes managing and motivating your squad much easier. The two factors harmonise rather than antagonise.
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2023 20:23:31 GMT
It's interesting how this thread meanders off to talk about supercomputers , DoFs , data analysis. That's not surprising in that it is commonly accepted to be the way football is going. But for all that ,this is relevant, the most impressive manager, for what he achieved out on the pitch in the championship last season, was Neil Warnock . Warnock is about as old school and as English as you can get in 2023. But his no nonsense ( admittedly old school) approach of letting the players know, Warnock style, that he's not going to tolerate any negative body language or attitude from them for even one minute of the game. That the players will give everything to defend their goal and win the ball back ( fair means or a bit of bending of the rules ) ,that they will show a desire to win the game regardless of who scores first, was actually very successful. For all your computer analysis and data analysis, at the end of the day, unless your lads want it more than the other lot , you are winning nowt and going nowhere ( except perhaps relegated) What Warnock does is as much , if not more important, in terms of what AN HAS to bring to match day than any amount of stats and analysis. This is just absolute rubbish. Tony Pulis' teams wanted it as much as any other, and they still had shit games where they got out-thought and outplayed by intelligent teams and managers, same with Hughes. You can want it as much as you like, if other teams play smarter than you, you have no chance. Almost every top level footballer on earth 'wants it' as much as every other one, is at the peak of athletic fitness and has a winning mentality. You don't become as good and as fit as you have to be nowadays to be a pro without that. There are intangibles, definitely, and confidence is a pretty big one, but to pretend it's all just because 'they want it more' and because Warnock calls people out is bollocks. Robins, Edwards & Carrick have been far more impressive than Warnock, as much as I like him.
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Post by kidcrewbob on May 23, 2023 12:54:44 GMT
Ex-players from the highest possible level seem to make the best managers these days - esp any who have been close to the top clubs at home or abroad - I can imagine the howls of derision on here had Kompany been touted for us at any point........ Lampard, Gerrard? Would you want either? Fuck no ! I would probably exclude most domestic names and have long since preferred a foreign coach - and to those mischeiviously touting Ince Keane etc I would qualify as having played in the past decade maximum......
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on May 23, 2023 13:05:25 GMT
Lampard, Gerrard? Would you want either? Fuck no ! I would probably exclude most domestic names and have long since preferred a foreign coach - and to those mischeiviously touting Ince Keane etc I would qualify as having played in the past decade maximum...... In terms of foreign coaches though, it doesn't enormously matter if they were elite players or not.
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Post by kidcrewbob on May 23, 2023 13:17:01 GMT
Fuck no ! I would probably exclude most domestic names and have long since preferred a foreign coach - and to those mischeiviously touting Ince Keane etc I would qualify as having played in the past decade maximum...... In terms of foreign coaches though, it doesn't enormously matter if they were elite players or not. I think it helps if they have worked with and had the chance to absorb from elite players and coaches - not neccessarily being "elite" themselves.......
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on May 23, 2023 13:23:07 GMT
In terms of foreign coaches though, it doesn't enormously matter if they were elite players or not. I think it helps if they have worked with and had the chance to absorb from elite players and coaches - not neccessarily being "elite" themselves....... I'm not sure it makes a huge difference to be honest. The Prem top 10 outside of the top 2 (and even that's arguably being generous to Arteta) didn't spend much time doing that. Top 6 of the Championship there's only Carrick and Kompany who fall into that bracket.
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Post by pushon on May 23, 2023 15:15:04 GMT
I'm sure that someone as pointed out that Warnock will be 75 later this year and so has to be heavily assaulted with money before having a bit of a football reprise. He can probably afford to keep the wolf from the door at his home down in Cornwall, until he's bashed with a heavy wallet once more.
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